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London's biggest CIDP through the years (1987 - now)

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UK_Palms

From my understanding, this CIDP was planted as a tiny little seedling in River Gardens, Fulham sometime around 1986-87. It has since gone on to become the biggest CIDP in London, as far as I am aware. There may well be bigger ones lurking out there in back yards, but this is the biggest known London CIDP.

The earliest photo I can find is this one, which I believe is from 1993-94...?

fulhamphoenix.jpg.c57b0a8198ed85f47d251f3b3b60b77f.jpg

 

Back in 2000...

Phoenix1.jpg.b538a23a8b2007515b5033fce020118d.jpg

 

12 years later in 2012, showing massive trunk expansion...

DSCN0337.jpg.b9949d776fa6a3ef99773c9b6d78fe7d.jpg

 

March 2021 after a bad winter. It's in desperate need of a trim, which would make the trunk look a LOT bigger...

 

Hopefully I will get a more recent photo of it from this autumn/fall soon. Maybe an even earlier photo of it too from the late 80's, not long after being planted. A lot of the other London CIDP's will probably be about this size in the next decade or so. A couple are already close to being the same size as this one. The London skyline is certainly changing!

Edited by UK_Palms
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Tassie_Troy1971

WOW they grow as fast in London as they do in Coastal Tasmania.  What is the lowest recorded temperature during those 30 + years   ?

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UK_Palms
1 hour ago, Tassie_Troy1971 said:

WOW they grow as fast in London as they do in Coastal Tasmania.  What is the lowest recorded temperature during those 30 + years   ?

The lowest that CIDP has probably seen since planting is about -7C or -8C back in 1987 during our worst cold snap ever, back when it was a tiny palm, shortly after planting. Since then, I don’t believe that spot has seen colder than -6C. Maybe even -5C. Most years it probably doesn’t drop below 0C really. The winter lows at London City airport the past 3 winters are +1C, +1.5C and then -4C last year during the worst winter in years. So fairly mild in general. Most years it actually stays above freezing. 

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cbmnz

This one perhaps was the only survivor of the winter of 62/63 on the UK mainland?

Tallest Canary Island Date Palm on Mainland UK, Chelston Torquay

Here down under, ones that size are everywhere, every town planted a heap of them up until to the 1940s, and it's never been cold enough to harm them.

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UK_Palms

@cbmnz Yes, that Torquay CIDP is the biggest mainland specimen that we know of. There could certainly be a bigger one out there though, lurking in a back yard or tucked away somewhere. We have uncovered so many decent sized specimens over the past year or two, which would have been a decent size a decade or so ago. But yeah, that Torquay one is the biggest CIDP that I know of on the mainland. Only the Tresco ones are bigger. And they are a LOT bigger.

567936837_Screenshot2021-10-17at04_54_47.thumb.png.ab67d537330e84131ead40d13865412f.png

1420580665_Screenshot2021-10-17at04_52_31.thumb.png.f261d722ecb210bf1c96ea617bf83b58.png

 

These pictures of it are quite a few years old now I believe, so it could be a bit bigger...

IMG_6827_21_large-2.jpg.a0e8a791cf37a1c8f9b1974ce9107bf5.jpg

IMG_6827_18_large-2.jpg.26c616477c91fb2e3b867975acceffdf.jpg

Taking the growth of that big London one into account, which was planted in the late 80's, I suspect that big Torquay one was planted sometime in the 70's. There are rumours that it is 100+ years old, but if that was the case it would surely be much bigger, given the growth of the London one, which was planted tiny in the late 80's. That one is almost as big as the Torquay one. The ones on Tresco were planted small in the 1890's, so the Torquay one would be about the same size as them if it really was 100 years old. It's probably about 40-50 years old. I'm pretty confident it was planted after the winter of 62/63, otherwise it would surely be bigger. There is also the possibility that it is hybridised with Dactylifera or some other Phoenix, but it's hard to say without seeing it up close.

I estimate Cornwall alone to have about 10,000 CIDP's planted out now, many of which are small, however many are getting on to be the size of that London one too. So within another decade or so, there will be plenty of big ones about. Nobody was really planting them in the UK before the year 2000, except for on Tresco and the odd few specimens here and there, such as that big one in London and the Torquay one. Nothing comes close to competing with the Tresco ones though. Likewise with the Tresco Robusta that I think was planted in the 1960's. How tall would you say these Tresco CIDP's are? Approaching 100 foot now? 

thumbnail_image0-1.jpg.495d9339c626f4bdc6d121d37e5f33b2.jpg.f3ae4a3aad9c5a3b95e228a301d260c1.jpg

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thumbnail_image0-3.jpg.90ba757144c110d2ac829c7355915d43.jpg

 

Here are those same CIDP's but I don't know when this photo was dated. I believe it is from the 1920's going by the source, so at least 90 years ago now. 

gm0_1999-561.thumb.jpg.24f58cf803377382d67377745f5c38fb.jpg

 

So the other CIDP's have some way to go then before they get anywhere near as big as those Tresco ones...

85688825_Screenshot2021-10-17at22_33_08.thumb.png.c8754001481b7e4702fc5b91d2b45f48.png

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80067594_Screenshot2021-10-18at00_15_19.thumb.png.fb27378fdfe846781c93e6d0ee2a47dc.png

 

The south coast is littered with CIDP's now. I reckon a lot of these are only 10-15 years away from being like the big Torquay one...

49579_15741297_IMG_59_000044556.jpg.d41cebfce6c2374ee58c02b820375e4b.jpg

1616716194_Screenshot2021-10-17at05_16_27.thumb.png.b76b88c03e0f8cd1b751ab29a0bc2e4d.png 

666541905_Screenshot2021-10-18at01_34_16.thumb.png.5f0cb61c01bda3f2a6e8bcb1e7196b25.png

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1970202379_Screenshot2021-10-18at01_57_16.thumb.png.a3903fb268425d7c313c123bb6267630.png

 

Street view is 3+ years old on these Penzance ones and was taken immediately after the infamous 2018 'Beast from the East' winter. They look much better now.

23395891_Screenshot2021-10-17at22_51_23.thumb.png.b547d4cb3f7f4895372d7c1f30522872.png

 

I would say a lot of these are about 10-15 years away from being like the big Torquay CIDP. I've probably missed off quite a few of the bigger ones as well.

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cbmnz
On 10/17/2021 at 4:01 PM, cbmnz said:

This one perhaps was the only survivor of the winter of 62/63 on the UK mainland?

Tallest Canary Island Date Palm on Mainland UK, Chelston Torquay

Here down under, ones that size are everywhere, every town planted a heap of them up until to the 1940s, and it's never been cold enough to harm them.

I didn't realise there was any controversy over the age of that palm.  Is it in a private garden or a communal place? Those  Tresco ones clearly must have been planted well before WWII and had a clear run right through. So it's possible none survived 62/63 on the mainland? Here is a guide to thier growth rate down here for comparison. http://raglanmuseum.co.nz/raglan-history/bow-street-palms/

and my own photo of those palms Dec 2019

20191211_115401.jpg

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UK_Palms

@cbmnz The big Torquay one is located in the back yard of a private property, so it isn’t easy to view. The images I attached came from a property listing, which shows that CIDP a few years back. I cannot verify when it was planted, but it could have been 100 years ago, or 40-50 years ago. I’m more inclined to say the latter since I feel that a 100+ year old specimen would be much bigger. 

Here’s a more recent image of some of those Penzance ones in Cornwall. There’s quite a few of them stacking on height now. I wouldn’t be shocked if these ones overtake the Torquay one at some point. They are growing quite rapidly now. Planted in the late 90’s so believe. There’s 6-7 about this size on and around that street…

A6652424-1AD2-4D35-B1F1-F278255E1055.jpeg.a2f8f5a3d13ccc4655c2cf417e557319.jpeg

1BFA28D8-F5D6-484E-8E04-6582DB52C0B1.thumb.jpeg.eef4850a2d43de017f9bcff586b6819f.jpeg
 

There are more decent sized ones outside Penzance railway station…

3BE2989C-EB29-47AE-97C7-D37395966899.jpeg.473c0709b5ac82482a84360abe42bb80.jpeg

5E591091-ACCC-4553-B4CA-C6A42ABE40FC.jpeg.c8832b86f491afd5cca96f63fb0d5679.jpeg

 

Here is another on the Penzance sea front…

4621458A-6EDE-4C2A-876C-A5DC6ECB1DF8.jpeg.34b6de94dbe5d3daa7d75591f57f38a2.jpeg
 

I suspect these will be the same size as the Tresco ones in about 75 years. I don’t think it will ever get cold enough to knock CIDP’s of this size out, especially on the southwestern tip of Cornwall. I just don’t think they were being planted in the past really, except for the odd specimen here and there. The climate has probably warmed a bit since as well. 

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cbmnz
On 10/18/2021 at 2:21 PM, UK_Palms said:

@cbmnz Yes, that Torquay CIDP is the biggest mainland specimen that we know of. There could certainly be a bigger one out there though, lurking in a back yard or tucked away somewhere. We have uncovered so many decent sized specimens over the past year or two, which would have been a decent size a decade or so ago. But yeah, that Torquay one is the biggest CIDP that I know of on the mainland. Only the Tresco ones are bigger. And they are a LOT bigger.

567936837_Screenshot2021-10-17at04_54_47.thumb.png.ab67d537330e84131ead40d13865412f.png

 

 

These pictures of it are quite a few years old now I believe, so it could be a bit bigger...

IMG_6827_21_large-2.jpg.a0e8a791cf37a1c8f9b1974ce9107bf5.jpg

IMG_6827_18_large-2.jpg.26c616477c91fb2e3b867975acceffdf.jpg

 

Sorry, I didn't latch on to the fact that this was a view of the Torquay one from behind. The view from streetview  has one imagining  a really tall trunk when it's actually an illusion created by the palm being up on a hill.  Indeed it's not overly tall if it's really a  100 year old + specimen. The think trunk does suggest it may have a degree of hybridisation with P.  Dactylifera.

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UK_Palms

@cbmnz I can see how it being situated up on higher ground gives off the impression of it being taller. Still it has about 20 foot of trunk and is about 40 foot in height. Obliviously impressive for UK standards and for latitude 50N. 

I have been on a bit of a digital safari since we last spoke. These two are in Hastings in southeast England. The trunks would look much bigger if they were trimmed...

1877261662_Screenshot2021-10-19at22_01_37.thumb.png.83d518111fc29922798ac556a947fdb2.png

1308839525_Screenshot2021-10-19at22_11_27.thumb.png.28b2cb06cf2cadfd38b4ed7280792d10.png

 

Eastbourne in southeast England...

1921836151_Screenshot2021-10-20at01_31_25.thumb.png.2fda92071b166e5bfbecbb39dc87ed8f.png

 

Ventnor...

thumbnail_image1-21.thumb.jpg.ab12dbce958287deaab4f1e9d07be090.jpg.ab96226c227d22bc37abeb3f7c8218c2.jpg

thumbnail_image0-23.thumb.jpg.75b92bffa3aa786265334d8050cd0e26.jpg.1e37e2a9290603a1c0f065988dfa10fa.jpg

 

Weymouth...

2131215118_Screenshot2021-10-21at22_04_40.thumb.png.04d4bd8a3eed40913fabecdfbdea363a.png

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1141293459_Screenshot2021-10-21at22_10_11.thumb.png.eb18ade9b15a4c1373e6bbd861fcc282.png

 

Back to Torquay...

1617576801_Screenshot2021-10-21at02_02_04.thumb.png.892ae6e042d9ef7b03d9658e06dc183b.png

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255841159_Screenshot2021-10-21at01_41_54.thumb.png.87b6dc09ef40b4a73a20be9c05c5a30a.png

 

While on the subject of Torquay, here are a few washies I have spotted there...

1653604091_Screenshot2021-10-22at01_45_01.thumb.png.3798e1f88c341889dd41d08d45e1c45e.png

688660116_Screenshot2021-10-22at01_44_02.thumb.png.22f1470419244868d7a62cfd990d0616.png

1201225341_Screenshot2021-10-21at23_27_28.thumb.png.aee3b2bdab59faa4d358cbe5fce5b32b.png

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