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What are your must have palms for 9b Florida?


Gottagrowemall

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3 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

copernicia hospita is good to a cool9B

Copernicia hospita – Rare Palm

Very cool, it reminds me of a multi trunked bismark

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23 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

Thank you for sharing, Who generated this spreadsheet? 

This spreadsheet was generated from the Trebrown Nursery List and is used as a base reference list for the Cold Hardiness Master Data.  As cold damage observations were added, the list had to be increased as there were species and synonyms not in the list.  It isn't perfect and there should probably be some amendments, but it is a decent starting point.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Thanks for the info.  A lot of those numbers look quite optimistic to me, at least at the colder end of the spectrum.  I have referenced this often:

http://www.trebrown.com/documents/climate/palmhardinesstrials.php  

but I didn't know that excel existed.   I enjoy reading posts from you Floridians, dreaming about things I can't grow but will hopefully someday.  

 

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I don't know much about palms, but I do know Ravenea rivulari or I think is the Majesty Palm does die easily in a freeze.  They are sold at the big box stores.

I've tried and lost with that palm.

Strangely I had an areca palm for years planted in the back by my house that lasted for literally years.  Finally had to dig it out since it was multiplying so much with new growth.

It had expanded at least a foot and became too big for my taste.

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40 minutes ago, carolstropicals said:

I don't know much about palms, but I do know Ravenea rivulari or I think is the Majesty Palm does die easily in a freeze.  They are sold at the big box stores.

They can be pretty tough, members have posted pictures of them growing way up in Tallahassee.

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Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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1 hour ago, carolstropicals said:

I don't know much about palms, but I do know Ravenea rivulari or I think is the Majesty Palm does die easily in a freeze.  They are sold at the big box stores.

I've tried and lost with that palm.

Strangely I had an areca palm for years planted in the back by my house that lasted for literally years.  Finally had to dig it out since it was multiplying so much with new growth.

It had expanded at least a foot and became too big for my taste.

It really depends.  In a Houston 9b, it's a bit different than some other 9b areas.  Here, fully mature Majesty Palms (Ravenea rivularis) are prevalent even on the margins of town where temperatures in the high teens and low 20s were recorded in January 2010.  By comparison, the weather stations in town and up in elevation recorded an ultimate low between 26F and 29F that year.  As @RedRabbit mentioned, there are photos of them in the Freeze Damage Data forums surviving more than 10 years in Tallahassee.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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23 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

It really depends.  In a Houston 9b, it's a bit different than some other 9b areas. 

There used to be some big majesties around town, a few were probably approaching 15-20 years. Some of them were still alive 8ish months ago. You could've planted a bunch in 1997 or even 1990 in central Houston and some would probably still be alive until last February's Arctic Express. They are tough but not 14F tough. 18-20F is the limit here dependent on duration. 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/12/2021 at 9:23 PM, RedRabbit said:

How far are you from the beach?

Flagler County probably won’t support crownshafted palms unless you’re right by the beach. Ravenea rivularis and Copernicia alba are two good palms that would probably do well in your area… Beccariophoenix alfredii was a very good choice. It won’t be fully hardy there, but it’s close enough and it’s a great palm for Florida. 

I live in St. Augustine a decent ways inland and am growing a foxtail palm, Christmas palm, and King palm. The foxtail was defoliated this past winter, but came back strong. More and more of these palms are showing up in northeast Florida because they sell them at nurseries and big box stores. Maybe we’ll get lucky and not have many deep freezes in the future. The are some royals in Jacksonville and St. Augustine that are well established so maybe they’re more likely to make it long term. 

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4 minutes ago, JDawgs said:

I live in St. Augustine a decent ways inland and am growing a foxtail palm, Christmas palm, and King palm. The foxtail was defoliated this past winter, but came back strong. More and more of these palms are showing up in northeast Florida because they sell them at nurseries and big box stores. Maybe we’ll get lucky and not have many deep freezes in the future. The are some royals in Jacksonville and St. Augustine that are well established so maybe they’re more likely to make it long term. 

I wish you luck @JDawgs. This past winter was a mild one for Florida so it’s not a great sign your foxtail was defoliated. Give a majesty a try, they’re much tougher in my experience.

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Westchase | 9b 10a  ◆  Nokomis | 10a  ◆  St. Petersburg | 10a 10b 

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On 10/13/2021 at 10:15 AM, Merlyn said:

For some other 9b suggestions that are mostly or totally bulletproof: Allagoptera Arenaria; Arenga Engleri and Micrantha; Beccariophoenix Alfredii; Butia x Jubaea (and the reverse); Chamaerops Humilis; most Copernicia like Baileyana, Fallaensis, Macroglossa; Dypsis Decaryi, Pembana, Leptocheilos and Lanceolata; Kentiopsis Oliviformis; Livistona Fulva, Saribus and Speciosa; Licuala Peltata v. Sumawongii; almost any Phoenix; Ptychosperma Macarthurii; Rhapis Excelsa, Humilis and Multifida; Serenoa Repens Cerifera; Sabal Mauritiiformis and Causiarum; Caryota Mitis variegated.

There's a bunch of fairly hardy understory ones like Arenga Hookeriana; Licuala Fordiana, Ramsayi and Spinosa that are pretty tough but want some shade.  I've bought seedlings of these types and will grow them up to decent size in a couple of years.  By then I'll have some shade for them!

Some marginal ones are Pinanga Coronata (I like the Kuhlii form); Thrinax Radiata; Leucothrinax Morrisii; Dictyosperma Album; Caryota Gigas/Obtusa and Urens; Arenga Caudata, Westerhoutii, Undulatifolia and Pinnata; Attalea Cohune, Butyracea, Phalerata and Brejinhoensis; Allagoptera Caudescens; Saribus Rotundifolia; Areca Triandra; etc.

I started out with a Sylvester and a Pindo, then added a couple of Spindles and Bottles.  Now I have ~269 palms in the ground in 110 species...and another ~180 in pots in 60 more species.  :D

 

Ive got some work to do lol. I started only last year with a pigmy date,  a spindle and a Bismarck. I'm now up to 20 in the ground. 

I've added a Beccariophoenix A, Archontophoenix cunninghamiana, a. alexandri, one A purperia, d lepticilious, d Decaryi, d pembana, foxtail, Livistonia chinesis, copernicia fallaensis, and my F2 Foxy Lady (future post) has taken the pigmy dates place center stage front yard A few others in pots until next spring. 

My 3 failures so far Carpoxylon, Satakentia and a flame thrower.  Under watering and fried by the sun. I have no canopy whatsoever all full sun except my A Purp has the best spot. Partial sun close to the house and ac unit rigged with an extended pipe to drip on it keeping it wet.  I move the pipe every now and then but I dont water it much other than that and it seems to be doing well.

 

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2 hours ago, Jimbean said:

I'd give Leucothrinax morrissii a shot if you want something native. 

I have an L. Morrisii in the front yard, a large 1g seedling.  It has some frost protection, so hopefully it'll do well this winter.  I have a Thrinax Radiata a few feet away, it is supposed to be a bit less hardy.  So we will see!

@banthony720 I used bananas as temporary shade, and Queen and Bottle palms above my nursery area for shelter.  Temporary canopy in one spot is fairly easy for small palms, but permanent canopy takes time.  My Satakentia seedlings are doing well with full AM sun but shade after about noon.

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On 10/13/2021 at 10:15 AM, Merlyn said:

For some other 9b suggestions that are mostly or totally bulletproof: Allagoptera Arenaria; Arenga Engleri and Micrantha; Beccariophoenix Alfredii; Butia x Jubaea (and the reverse); Chamaerops Humilis; most Copernicia like Baileyana, Fallaensis, Macroglossa; Dypsis Decaryi, Pembana, Leptocheilos and Lanceolata; Kentiopsis Oliviformis; Livistona Fulva, Saribus and Speciosa; Licuala Peltata v. Sumawongii; almost any Phoenix; Ptychosperma Macarthurii; Rhapis Excelsa, Humilis and Multifida; Serenoa Repens Cerifera; Sabal Mauritiiformis and Causiarum; Caryota Mitis variegated.

There's a bunch of fairly hardy understory ones like Arenga Hookeriana; Licuala Fordiana, Ramsayi and Spinosa that are pretty tough but want some shade.  I've bought seedlings of these types and will grow them up to decent size in a couple of years.  By then I'll have some shade for them!

Some marginal ones are Pinanga Coronata (I like the Kuhlii form); Thrinax Radiata; Leucothrinax Morrisii; Dictyosperma Album; Caryota Gigas/Obtusa and Urens; Arenga Caudata, Westerhoutii, Undulatifolia and Pinnata; Attalea Cohune, Butyracea, Phalerata and Brejinhoensis; Allagoptera Caudescens; Saribus Rotundifolia; Areca Triandra; etc.

I started out with a Sylvester and a Pindo, then added a couple of Spindles and Bottles.  Now I have ~269 palms in the ground in 110 species...and another ~180 in pots in 60 more species.  :D

 

If this is too pricey, you can just use mine.  I'm done with it:

20211106_StraightJacket.jpg

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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12 hours ago, Jimbean said:

I'd give Leucothrinax morrissii a shot if you want something native. 

I would agree with this. I haven’t been there in many years but I believe there was one or more growing in the cemetery in the St. Augustine historic district. Of course, that is right near the water so there is some protection.

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7 hours ago, kinzyjr said:

If this is too pricey, you can just use mine.  I'm done with it:

Hah, well you never know!  As Inspector Dreyfuss once said, "Every day and in every way, I am getting better, and better!"  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xze_izjdEYk

Since that last post I've gone on a planting extravaganza!  I wanted to get a bunch in the ground before November, and now have 308 in the ground out of about 120 species.  :D

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Livistona chinensis

Sabal palmetto

Sabal minor

Sabal etonia 

Sabal miamiensis (may be synonymous with S. etonia

Sabal mexicana

Livistona decora

Livistona nitida 

Ravenea rivularis (for areas with rich, moist soils for best appearance)

Arenga engleri 

Syagrus romanzoffiana (for areas with rich, moist soils for best appearance)

archontophoenix cunninhamiana

Phoenix roebellennii

Phoenix dactylifera

Phoenix canariensis

Phoenix reclinata

Phoenix sylvestris

Bismarckia nobilis

Chamaedorea microspadix

Chamaedorea radicalis 

Chamaedorea cataractum (a protected spot for best appearance)

Chamaedorea elegans (protected spot best)

Serenoa repens

Rhaphidophyllum hysteria

Rhapis species

Trachycarpus species 

Trithrinax species

Washingtonia robusta and filabusta

Washingtonia filifera for less humid 9b locals and these types of locales are rare in the SE United States as most true 9b climates in the aforementioned region are quite humid

 

Marginal Palms:

Roystonea regia (not long term hardy but may survive 10-20 years if a larger specimen is installed to start).

Pseudophonix sargentii

Other Archontophoenix species

 

There are many more palms that can survive in thrive in a 9b SE United States climate.

 

 

 

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