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Pseudophoenix hits the dirt.


Looking Glass

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Well, I put two of the Pseudophoenix Sargentii in the ground, up front by the road….  hot, driest part of the yard, full, direct sun all day.   Hopefully they are happy there and don’t die of dog-urine poisoning or teenage vandalism.  

Charlie Brown’s Pseudophoenix……

March 5th 2021…61E5A76F-D65B-49F1-AC70-3B8F0A32F398.thumb.jpeg.00bb01a28477f206e1c34088826b4b83.jpeg

Today…AD743674-5A4C-458B-A135-2ADB03FF68B6.thumb.jpeg.3dd0381ab4879b49b3fef6b5ef028ac5.jpeg

 

The One-Armed Bandit grew another arm, so I figured it was time.   

June 9th 2021….D6F32613-7F98-40E7-98C1-284F22A75E7F.thumb.jpeg.41803e91e8ecd43370c5d6515a31e16b.jpeg

Today…34B612FD-AFED-4B26-80AB-1A53DC15CBF0.thumb.jpeg.e39784a7af156516c1261fcf8e76ffae.jpeg

Still have to find spots for 3 more in pots.   Hopefully these do well in the ground.  

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Nice spots!  I have two that are about the same size as your Charlie Brown Christmas Tree.  :D  I planted one up front in full sun, and one in the backyard in AM shade/PM full sun.  Both are moving pretty quick, and both I believe are Navassana types.  Do you know what type yours are?

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1 minute ago, Looking Glass said:

Well, I put two of the Pseudophoenix Sargentii in the ground, up front by the road….  hot, driest part of the yard, full, direct sun all day.   Hopefully they are happy there and don’t die of dog-urine poisoning or teenage vandalism.  

...

Still have to find spots for 3 more in pots.   Hopefully these do well in the ground.  

I'm sure yours will grow well.  Here, we tend to grow them in dappled light under canopy since we're about a full zone less than your location.  They've reached maturity and self-seed here now.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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1 hour ago, Merlyn said:

Nice spots!  I have two that are about the same size as your Charlie Brown Christmas Tree.  :D  I planted one up front in full sun, and one in the backyard in AM shade/PM full sun.  Both are moving pretty quick, and both I believe are Navassana types.  Do you know what type yours are?

I don’t know, but I don’t think they are Navassana, as the place I bought them from had those, but were saving them for personal use, and wouldn’t sell them to me.  ‘:(
These are faster than I thought though.  Not fast, but faster than half the stuff of similar size that I have.  They responded great to a little food and water.  

I do have a tall, thin strange one that is very different than all the rest, but probably the same age as Charlie.   Got it at the same time from a different nursery.  They almost sold me a small Ekmanii by mistake (I couldn’t tell either at that size) so could be anything I guess.   My overfeeding tendencies didn’t make this one any fatter, just taller.  I wonder how/what that one will turn out to be.   It’s moved up to the on-deck circle now.  E048D370-B7BA-45CD-B046-AD8A469630A7.thumb.jpeg.d6cae1b244ed84affec95d314cea8d8b.jpeg

 

1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

I'm sure yours will grow well.  Here, we tend to grow them in dappled light under canopy since we're about a full zone less than your location.  They've reached maturity and self-seed here now.

I hope so.  It stays pretty warm here.  I tested these in full, blazing sun out back and they did well.  Hope they like ground freedom even better.  I’ve got a friend with a big, fat white one.  Hopefully they turn out something like that, but who knows?  These are pretty variable as grownups.  

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Hope yours grow as well as mine here on O`ahu.  Two photos, one form 2008 and the other from 2020.

Pseudophoenix sargentii2008-08.jpg

Pseudophoenix sargentii20200901_105753.jpg

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Steve

Born in the Bronx

Raised in Brooklyn

Matured In Wai`anae

I can't be held responsible for anything I say or do....LOL

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2 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

Charlie Brown’s Pseudophoenix……

Funny thing… when I came home with a P. Sargentii, the wife called it the same thing. I had to show her mature ones in the Keys before she realized I’d planted more than a sad little stick. 

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1 hour ago, WaianaeCrider said:

Hope yours grow as well as mine here on O`ahu.  Two photos, one form 2008 and the other from 2020.

Pseudophoenix sargentii20200901_105753.jpg

I doubt it.  …That ring spacing.   I’d call that guy, “Stretch Armstrong”.
….Careful Icarus. 

1 hour ago, Oviedo_z10b_lol said:

Funny thing… when I came home with a P. Sargentii, the wife called it the same thing. I had to show her mature ones in the Keys before she realized I’d planted more than a sad little stick. 

Lol!  Yeah they look especially pathetic as babies.  Then you get to see the price tag at certain nurseries on some of those sticks too.  

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My sister had two navisanna on anna maria island, the one planted in a wet spot died from continually wet soil.  the survivor, planted with shells and gravel on top and virtually no organic matter is about 5-6' trunk but its kind of thick, about 6-7" caliper.  In part shade they may elongate and grow vertically faster with the thinner trunk.   Var navissana is noted for its 3" ring spacing vs the about 1" for the non navissana.  Here they are side by side courtesy of AZtropic in another thread.  By the way, they like alkaline soil.

IMG_20200213_143315840.jpg

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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21 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

My sister had two navisanna on anna maria island, the one planted in a wet spot died from continually wet soil.  the survivor, planted with shells and gravel on top and virtually no organic matter is about 5-6' trunk but its kind of thick, about 6-7" caliper.  In part shade they may elongate and grow vertically faster with the thinner trunk.   Var navissana is noted for its 3" ring spacing vs the about 1" for the non navissana.  Here they are side by side courtesy of AZtropic in another thread.  By the way, they like alkaline soil.

I love that pic.  Whoever planted those two did Sargentii lovers a great service.  I don’t think I’m going to see that big ring spacing.  Mine are likely to be at nipple hight, rather than tickling the stratosphere in 10 years.  

The one-armed bandit already has tight rings.  I actually like the look of the big, white fatties.  

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Pseudophoenix with a sea shell top dressing... LOVE IT! :greenthumb:

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

IMG_20210724_173627536.jpg

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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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1 hour ago, aztropic said:

Pseudophoenix with a sea shell top dressing... LOVE IT! :greenthumb:

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

IMG_20210724_173627536.jpg

Yep and the seashells are definitely alkaline as well.  That little "fattie" is gorgeous!   Nice job scott!  I would never have guessed from the pic that it was grown in AZ, looks a lot like a florida one!

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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9 hours ago, aztropic said:

Pseudophoenix with a sea shell top dressing... LOVE IT! :greenthumb:

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona

IMG_20210724_173627536.jpg

I agree with @sonoranfans. That palm is picture perfect. I’m guessing that the top is nice too.

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One thing I noticed about these that I forgot to mention, even in their little pots initially…. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a palm cement itself to the dirt so stiffly as these do.   There isn’t even the slightest wiggle or give.   These things must developed a very strong root system.  As babies, the pot will rock off the ground before they move even the slightest. 

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  • 9 months later...

Here’s the 9 month update of these two in the ground.  They are really enjoying the blazing sun and heat of summer now…..

This guy put out 3 leaves in the past year…   Happier in the ground than that pot, now in open sunrise-to-sunset sun.   The one-armed bandit is now working on a 5th arm.   

1F3C1930-8358-4EE9-9DCE-7A3632D248D6.thumb.jpeg.80b0ff03d8c29b6e3208e903baf6159b.jpeg


This one is younger and only gets about 8 hrs of sun per day…  a little slower, but still put out a bunch of leaves in a year, I can’t remember how many it put out, since it started with more than one arm.  

A69E3A17-B99D-4BED-9A6B-2D205FEC4736.thumb.jpeg.fc3e90a506c87390dfa85b572dc4ba3a.jpeg

They are both a nice bluish green with powdery petioles.  

Edited by Looking Glass
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Very happy palms. If a Pseudophoenix smiled, that's what it would look like.

On the first specimen in the first photo, notice the height and size difference between the newest leaf and the next-older-one below it. Even the petiole looks considerably bigger. That palm is in high gear, which says a lot for a P. sargentii. With the steady heat, humidity and on and off rain we have been getting, I am not surprised.

Ryan

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South Florida

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  • 4 months later...

Well, the one arm bandit is about to lose its original arm.  Both palms enjoyed the summer sun and heat, putting on some size with a little extra water and fertilizer.  I love these palms.  They are happy to get blasted with hot sun, in crappy soil, and handle the dry spells just fine.   Stay a nice blue-green.  

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They are looking like adolescents! These palms have such neat coloring and yours are showing them off well I think.

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Very durable palms that would be used much more often if they weren't just such slow growers... Trouble free,even in the harsh conditions of Arizona desert gardens.

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

IMG_20210523_193217_01.jpg

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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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  • 5 months later...

Well, it's getting to be the happy-season for Pseudophoenix and the Cuban palms around here, so here's an update.   

I trimmed an old frond today that was yellow and dragging on the ground, off The One Armed Bandit.  It was the 2nd arm in the original pic.  From spear to the end of its lifespan, it lasted about 2 years.   

Both palms continue to grow and seem happy about 7+ feet tall now.  They are picking up speed in the heat and blazing sun now.   

 

The One Armed Bandit....

IMG_7763.thumb.jpg.d64a2ad531e57490f9251e743c00963d.jpg

IMG_7762.thumb.jpg.d45310efcaecffe7a799cddedfa1a899.jpg

 

Charlie Brown's Pseudophoenix....

IMG_7765.thumb.jpg.68a43b06ec78bec22b50d2ec899c9c2f.jpg

Oddly, CB's is showing a little boron deficiency from some point last year I guess.   Will treat tomorrow..

IMG_7766.thumb.jpg.cadb2c9f875457f2f38612aa74a0eb20.jpg

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I definitely want to get one of these growing in my yard. Beautiful palms!

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Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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Yours seem to be growing quite fast. I do think that regular water and palm specific fertilizer do speed up traditionally slow native palms here in Florida. 

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Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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2 minutes ago, ruskinPalms said:

Yours seem to be growing quite fast. I do think that regular water and palm specific fertilizer do speed up traditionally slow native palms here in Florida. 

They are great palms.  People complain they are slow, but these regular Pseudophoenix are faster than half the other palms I have, especially the New Caledonia species.    

I try to bake them in all day sun, and probably over fertilize, but try to restrain myself from over watering, maybe giving them a good soak 2x per week.   

From spring to early fall they move at a good pace, but the cooler and darker half of the year they really slow down.   They seem to enjoy hot temps and all day summer sun here.  

I have 5 in pots out back, including 2 of the faster growing subspecies, and they seem to grow MUCH slower in pots.   

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On 11/15/2022 at 11:29 PM, aztropic said:

Very durable palms that would be used much more often if they weren't just such slow growers... Trouble free,even in the harsh conditions of Arizona desert gardens.

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

IMG_20210523_193217_01.jpg

I grow one still in pot, which is allegedly the subsp navassana.  It seems having some prospects in my garden, because it has grown from seedling to pinnate juvenile inside my cold frame. Do you think it can grow outside in a porous medium like leca or pumice or cinder or a mix of them?

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It would probably survive,as long as your minimum temp stays above -1C. They really need heat to grow though - otherwise they just kind of sit there in suspended animation.

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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  • 3 months later...

Well, both the One-Armed Bandit and Charlie Brown were outgrowing their circles, and oddly enough both had a bout of Boron deficiency.   I treated both with a tablespoon of Borax a couple times over the past few months.  I couldn’t help but think that a lack of organics combined with excess calcium for the shells was to blame.   (Unless it was just a washout from excess rain).  They seem to be past it now.   No other palms in the yard got it.  

So I deconstructed their beds and expanded and re-did them.   I scooped up the shell mulch, and added a layer of manure mixed with sand, and topped that with a thick layer of wood mulch, giving more organics to break down and supply nutrients and Boron over time. I scattered back the shell remnants, granular fertilized, and topped with a layer of limestone rock and a few big clam shells.  Sprinkled a tablespoon of boron over that.   I doubled the size of the circle around them.   

They are opening a leaf every 3 months in this heat and rain.   Both 7+ feet tall. 

One Armed Bandit…..

55E6ABBC-04A9-48A5-A3A3-175D97EAABE6.thumb.jpeg.65cccae09774494e2a0331ed17ada98a.jpeg
 

5CA48156-9672-4149-A7B8-4700AF912FB1.thumb.jpeg.9f95deff2265d2e0daa9e61a16f48b15.jpeg

latest ring will be big, as this sheath slowly tears away over months.  

4D71C995-0B65-4BC9-89ED-19F2FFF9D033.thumb.jpeg.7638c30c7d52b2b810d34b0055c1b46c.jpeg


Charlie Brown is pushing his 1st leaf out-of-plane now….

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9 minutes ago, Looking Glass said:

Well, both the One-Armed Bandit and Charlie Brown were outgrowing their circles, and oddly enough both had a bout of Boron deficiency.   I treated both with a tablespoon of Borax a couple times over the past few months.  I couldn’t help but think that a lack of organics combined with excess calcium for the shells was to blame.   (Unless it was just a washout from excess rain).  They seem to be past it now.   No other palms in the yard got it.  

So I deconstructed their beds and expanded and re-did them.   I scooped up the shell mulch, and added a layer of manure mixed with sand, and topped that with a thick layer of wood mulch, giving more organics to break down and supply nutrients and Boron over time. I scattered back the shell remnants, granular fertilized, and topped with a layer of limestone rock and a few big clam shells.  Sprinkled a tablespoon of boron over that.   I doubled the size of the circle around them.   

They are opening a leaf every 3 months in this heat and rain.   Both 7+ feet tall. 

One Armed Bandit…..

55E6ABBC-04A9-48A5-A3A3-175D97EAABE6.thumb.jpeg.65cccae09774494e2a0331ed17ada98a.jpeg
 

5CA48156-9672-4149-A7B8-4700AF912FB1.thumb.jpeg.9f95deff2265d2e0daa9e61a16f48b15.jpeg

latest ring will be big, as this sheath slowly tears away over months.  

4D71C995-0B65-4BC9-89ED-19F2FFF9D033.thumb.jpeg.7638c30c7d52b2b810d34b0055c1b46c.jpeg


Charlie Brown is pushing his 1st leaf out-of-plane now….

0E835B03-D948-46F9-8E46-1FD5412B3716.thumb.jpeg.6f4dd811e138a0d531629003c6c100d8.jpeg

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You’re right. These are probably faster than a lot of palms that us enthusiasts are trying to grow. These are still on my short list, just trying think of a decent way to work it into the landscape that looks less like hoarding palms and more like a landscape plan 😆😎

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Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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24 minutes ago, ruskinPalms said:

You’re right. These are probably faster than a lot of palms that us enthusiasts are trying to grow. These are still on my short list, just trying think of a decent way to work it into the landscape that looks less like hoarding palms and more like a landscape plan 😆😎

It’s been alternating between blazing hot sunny days, and then wet deluges.   Under these conditions, they aren’t that slow.   They seem to love days in the 90s and nights in the 80s, and heavy blasting sun that many palms can’t tolerate well.   But when the temps drop, they slow down considerably….  I think that’s where they get their slow reputation from, averaged over a year, dependent on how cool your off-season is.  

Of the palms I have, Satakentia, P Roebelenii, C Leptocheilos are fast, the rest are all slow.   

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Interesting you are include Satakentia as fast. I do tend to lean toward planting fast palms because where I live freezes (and hurricanes) happen which can completely defoliate a palm. They need to be able to recover fast enough to withstand the next freeze (hurricane) to be viable here. I may give a Satakentia a try once I have a shady enough spot to plant one.  

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Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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And P. roebelenii are indeed fast to throw out fronds and make very fertile seed; likewise, C. lutescens which make absurd amounts of viable, tasty seeds (for rats and squirrels anyway) are sometimes frustratingly fast too. And then there are Roystonea. They are very fast but curiously there doesn’t seem to be too much that distributes their seeds are in my local area anyway.

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Parrish, FL

Zone 9B

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1 hour ago, ruskinPalms said:

You’re right. These are probably faster than a lot of palms that us enthusiasts are trying to grow. These are still on my short list, just trying think of a decent way to work it into the landscape that looks less like hoarding palms and more like a landscape plan 😆😎

Just don't put it under anything the power company might trim... *facepalm*  They dropped a limb on mine today and it took a pretty good beating.

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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Thanks for the reminder to give mine a close look.  I think the boron issue is probably the rain and being still new, they look really happy to me.

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33 minutes ago, ruskinPalms said:

Interesting you are include Satakentia as fast. I do tend to lean toward planting fast palms because where I live freezes (and hurricanes) happen which can completely defoliate a palm. They need to be able to recover fast enough to withstand the next freeze (hurricane) to be viable here. I may give a Satakentia a try once I have a shady enough spot to plant one.  

I’ll post an update in these in the next couple weeks when the oldest frond drops off.  It’s a frond from a broken spear about 13 months ago.  Since that time it’s put out around a dozen fronds, and the two I have in full sun went from 7g potted beanpoles to big robust trees with 1-2 feet of ringed trunk in a couple of years.   These grow fast down here.  My fastest palms.  Roystonea are ultra fast here, and too huge for my place.  They pop up all over as bids drop the seeds from my neighbors trees.   Lutescens is like a ratty weed here unless well fertilized.  Spreading and dying all over the place.  

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2 minutes ago, flplantguy said:

Thanks for the reminder to give mine a close look.  I think the boron issue is probably the rain and being still new, they look really happy to me.

They both got classic notched leaflets around the same time.   It shows up delayed.  Could have been that 26 inch rain day we had in April earlier in the year.  Still, I took no chances.  They do seem to enjoy their spots.  

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12 hours ago, ruskinPalms said:

Interesting you are include Satakentia as fast. I do tend to lean toward planting fast palms because where I live freezes (and hurricanes) happen which can completely defoliate a palm. They need to be able to recover fast enough to withstand the next freeze (hurricane) to be viable here. I may give a Satakentia a try once I have a shady enough spot to plant one.  

I’m not sure but I don’t think a Satakentia will recover from a cold type of defoliation event. And hurricane defoliation is also bad because it usually happens in the fall when new growth time is limited before winter. I would highly recommend Pseudophoenix though. Especially if you just want to plant something and not fuss over it.

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Yesterday, I took out the wobbly 8 foot tall Beccariophoenix Alfredii from out front.  Originally planted as a stout 3g two years ago, it grew taller, then got all wobbly in that wind corridor, out in the open.   It never even saw a minor hurricane, just the regular tropical winds.   

I carved out a large area, bordered the center island, and then put another border within, and planted 3 more Sargentii that I had in pots out back…..

These twins of regular Pseudophoenix Sargentii were picked up in 2021, badly in need of TLC….

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This faster growing subspecies (Saonae) came from Carribean Palms earlier in 2023….

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All went in together.   I put the faster one in the back, and the little ones up front, with the idea that the faster one should be 3x the size over the same time.  
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This area gets heavy, setting sun in the open, and the E to W street is a wind corridor.   It’s a harsh spot.   The Chinese fans give a small break from the sun directly under them.   I’ve been trying to spruce it up with some color, but the most sun exposed Stoplight Croton is frying, and they are said to have great sun tolerance.  I’m going to get some Hohenbergia castellanosii bromeliads and maybe some small agave to dress this area up a bit.   Might even have the space for a little coccothrinax to plug in…

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I’ve still got two Sargentii in pots out back, in rehab.   Time will tell if they find a place somewhere.    

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That trio looks really sharp! :shaka-2:

 

aztropic

Mesa, Arizona 

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Mesa, Arizona

 

Temps between 29F and 115F each year

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was working out back today, and spruced up the remaining two Pseudophoenix I’ve got in pots.   This one I mentioned back in 2021.   It is very different from the others I have.  Very slow for me, with long, whispy fronds and leaflets, even in full sun.   Not at all like the four regular Sargentii I’ve got, which are stouter and thicker palms with much wider leaflets and very stiff petioles.  Not like the faster subtypes you see either.   Slow and skinny.   Got it as a single from a nursery here.   I enriched its growing medium, and up potted it to 15g and added limestone.   We’ll see if that does anything…..

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This other guy is my rehab project…  pretty beat up on arrival.   Spear not looking great, has some brown.   Treated with peroxide and antifungals.  Added a few inches of richer top dressing and then limestone.  Picked him up earlier this year, but it’s not looking great.   Didn’t respond to TLC this summer…..

Now in the hottest part of the backyard against a dark fence blasted with late day sun.   The ICU of the yard for heat lovers.   It’s gonna take a miracle…

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  • 3 months later...

It’s been a weird year.  Tons of rain and a pretty warm winter so far.  The One-Armed Bandit continues to fatten up, along with Charlie Brown, who is about to trunk.  Weeds go crazy this time of year and invade everything.  The Center Trio is slow so far, and I’ve been spending way too much on Etsy poaching random bromeliads to plug in….

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Edited by Looking Glass
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13 hours ago, Looking Glass said:

It’s been a weird year.  Tons of rain and a pretty warm winter so far.  The One-Armed Bandit continues to fatten up, along with Charlie Brown, who is about to trunk.  Weeds go crazy this time of year and invade everything.  The Center Trio is slow so far, and I’ve been spending way too much on Etsy poaching random bromeliads to plug in….

54EE3849-CCD3-433E-A445-0582CFA8B5D6.thumb.jpeg.137056a79591a8de544bf170b1eb8279.jpeg

AA5DE3A3-FFC9-49FA-B4A3-2CB428EB59EE.thumb.jpeg.6e769d56b7c6157ec4bfade33074a9c4.jpeg

808E851A-F045-4CA2-B6A7-A62E0C267DDA.thumb.jpeg.98b230476763e2df9ba332b802c6ea56.jpeg

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😍

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