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Howea belmoreana


oasis371

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I love Howea forsteriana (have three solitary ones), and just purchased a Howea belmoreana.

I have read that H. belmoreana does not do well in containers. Is this true?

Any cultural differences between the two species?

Do you prefer one to the other, why?

Thanks in advance.

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1 hour ago, oasis371 said:

I love Howea forsteriana (have three solitary ones), and just purchased a Howea belmoreana.

I have read that H. belmoreana does not do well in containers. Is this true?

Any cultural differences between the two species?

Do you prefer one to the other, why?

Thanks in advance.

I read the same thing after adding a 4" palm to my Floribunda order!  It was one of the ones that didn't arrive in the best shape and it didn't survive 2 weeks in the medium it was sent in so maybe it wasn't happy with it.  :(  Not typical as vast majority of palms were in excellent condition.  Hopefully others will offer other experiences - hard to make a judgement based on my experience.

Jon Sunder

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From my limited experience, Howea belmoreana is more rare for a reason.  They don't grow as readily as forsteriana.  Even in my much less than optimal climate, there are a few nice Howea forsteriana here.  I haven't seen too many Howea belmoreana outside of a few on each coast.

Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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On 9/24/2021 at 4:44 PM, oasis371 said:

I love Howea forsteriana (have three solitary ones), and just purchased a Howea belmoreana.

I have read that H. belmoreana does not do well in containers. Is this true?

Any cultural differences between the two species?

Do you prefer one to the other, why?

Thanks in advance.

I’ve been growing belmoreanas as a houseplant for approximately 5 years now. I treat them the same as my forsterianas.  They take up more space, are more rigid in form than the forsterianas.  I find the forsts fit in better where placed while belmos are like a rigid piece of sculpture—- not too bendable and other room items need to work around them.   I’ve always heard that the belmos are more popular in Europe, England and Forsts in the USA.  Not sure how true that is but I found belmos difficult to locate in USA, and especially in the northeast. I’m in New England and our Summers in RI by the ocean are cool, not often hot and so probably closer to the non-tropical, maritime climate where these palms originate. I keep them in shade, dappled sunlight in summer - nothing too hot or sunny.  During winter I keep them indoors on the drier side, providing as much sunlight as possible.  They will do well in a bright sunless window though.  I just noticed you are in NJ; if I can grow them up here then you can too.  Some photos below of my belmoreanas   The last photo is one of my forsterianas.

65202102-C196-4C01-BD16-35F5C1FFB174.thumb.jpeg.8de3a06eb6a20e7ea84be5404c5c2139.jpegAA07FFAC-FED4-4F08-AAD2-3D2CB1A7CDAC.thumb.jpeg.807068c2f577c0cf75e6d72745f36359.jpeg8A08ABD7-B104-4E26-BC3B-99323BB8B93A.thumb.jpeg.8737decc4f18cf36ea52afe528b70a78.jpeg

 

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Your palms look terrific!

The difference in appearance between these two species is rather subtile, I guess.  It seems that H. belmoreana leaves are more rigid, less vertical, and more lustrous compared to to the H. forsteriana.  You right about going light on the Winter watering, that's how I lost one.  Most people also seem to put these into big pots thinking they will grow better and it actually only hurts them.  I also think they resent heavy soils.  All mine go outside for the growing season but I keep the Howeas in bright shade to dappled sun light.  Where did you get yours, Howeas of either species are difficult to get on the East Coast, most seem to come out of California, even though I have seen them being grown in Florida. Do you suspect the belmoreanas can take more direct sun? Do you personally prefer one species over the other?

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2 hours ago, oasis371 said:

Your palms look terrific!

The difference in appearance between these two species is rather subtile, I guess.  It seems that H. belmoreana leaves are more rigid, less vertical, and more lustrous compared to to the H. forsteriana.  You right about going light on the Winter watering, that's how I lost one.  Most people also seem to put these into big pots thinking they will grow better and it actually only hurts them.  I also think they resent heavy soils.  All mine go outside for the growing season but I keep the Howeas in bright shade to dappled sun light.  Where did you get yours, Howeas of either species are difficult to get on the East Coast, most seem to come out of California, even though I have seen them being grown in Florida. Do you suspect the belmoreanas can take more direct sun? Do you personally prefer one species over the other?

Thanks Oasis.  Yes I agree on the smaller pots for the Howeas to prevent over watering. That’s probably what makes the belmoreana more of a pain to deal with indoors: top heavy, small pots, rigid petioles - when you brush past them indoors them they don’t yield tipping the pot over.  Whereas, forsterianas fit better indoors (furniture, wall hangings, pets, etc) ; more flexible fronds, looser arrangement.  I tie the petioles together before bringing indoors to save horizontal space, that’s why my forsteriana photo appears so upright.  You really can’t do that with belmos.  I guess it depends on how much interior space one has.  If I had to choose one it would be forsteriana for indoors.

 

My understanding is that belmoreana likes more sun than forsteriana.  I think forsteriana prefers shade when immature as it is understory, lowlands level until it trunks high up.

 

I agree that CA is the place to go for Howeas in the US, as opposed to FL being reliable for most of our other potted exotics. Florida is too hot for their ideal temps.  Think Bermuda; I think Bermuda would be our closest east coast reference point for a similar Lord Howe Island climate.

 

To purchase Howea belmoreana, look up Jungle Music palms and cycads in Encinitas, CA.  Great customer service; top notch in my opinion.

 

I bought 1 gallons from them and appears they are available for a reasonable price. They shipped at a substantial size; very robust plants. Actually, not sure how they would ship greater than 2 gallons — you might think you purchased a washing machine when the big box arrives on your doorstep:)

 

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@piping plovers great looking palms!  I feel like it's so rare to see belmoreanas, I'm over in Seattle and have yet to find any locally.   I especially love the exaggerated drape of the fronds, that's interesting to hear they are more rigid than forsteriana, definitely good to know!  

Cheers

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18 hours ago, PsyPalm said:

Thanks PsyPalm. Are you able to grow Howeas outdoors year round In Seattle?  I understand they’re grown outdoors in San Francisco.  With prevailing maritime climate of Pacific I imagine that puts you guys in a better situation than many of us in more northern latitudes in US.  Am Not sure if Seattle area is frost free zone.

On the exaggerated recurved fronds of belmoreana, I think it makes them more architectural in appearance than forsteriana.  In the Victorian era paintings you often see them displayed in an ornate pot, solitary on a pedestal displayed like sculpture. In those palatial settings, though, they had ample interior spaces.

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I am super busy today but will post numerous comments later, or tomorrow.  I grow trunked examples of both species out of doors.  :) 

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San Francisco, California

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I have had 1 forsteriana and 1 belmoreana in the ground for many years. Both have real trouble with FL’s hot, humid summers so are located deep in my back yard jungle. They made it through another SWFL summer and should be secure now winter dry season is here. Both are cool weather loving temperate palms. Forsteriana comes from lower elevations of Lord Howe Island and is the easiest species to grow. It wants cool temps between 50-70F. It hates very cold and very warm temps. My forsteriana (germinated 2004//05) has 2-3’ of clear trunk. Belmoreana comes from higher elevations of Lord Howe, is slower growing and requires even cooler temps to be happy. My belmoreana, bought ca. 2005 as a 1g is 5’ tall and still hasn’t formed a trunk.

The other two Lord Howe palms, Hedyscepe and my impossible dream palm Lepidorrhachis are from the highest heights of the island and impossible to grow in FL or anywhere with hot summers.

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Meg

Palms of Victory I shall wear

Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
Florida
Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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6 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

The other two Lord Howe palms, Hedyscepe and my impossible dream palm Lepidorrhachis are from the highest heights of the island and impossible to grow in FL or anywhere with hot summers.

Good information there on the native growing conditions of the 2 Howeas.  I needed to look up the Lepidorrhachis you mentioned; fascinating form on that one.  At  first glance reminded me of mature Rhopalostylis and Howea belmoreana.

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I have ordered two of these today for delivery. later this week. They are about 5 foot tall.  I already have an Howea F out on my porch which came with me to Portugal from the UK.  It didn't blink with the hot dry summer given being kept well shaded and also hosed down with regular watering. As already stated, the belmoreana might not be quite as forgiving in respect of the hot dry summers, but my house is made of solid stone which keeps things relatively cool even on some of the hottest days and so they can be moved around easily enough to suit the conditions. An outside kitchen is to be constructed hopefully next year and these will be ideal for it - benefitting from being within the cool stone walls but with arched recesses in the walls to let in plenty of light and through-breezes as well:)

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On 10/4/2021 at 11:33 AM, petiole10 said:

I have ordered two of these today for delivery. later this week. They are about 5 foot tall.  I already have an Howea F out on my porch which came with me to Portugal from the UK.  It didn't blink with the hot dry summer given being kept well shaded and also hosed down with regular watering. As already stated, the belmoreana might not be quite as forgiving in respect of the hot dry summers, but my house is made of solid stone which keeps things relatively cool even on some of the hottest days and so they can be moved around easily enough to suit the conditions. An outside kitchen is to be constructed hopefully next year and these will be ideal for it - benefitting from being within the cool stone walls but with arched recesses in the walls to let in plenty of light and through-breezes as well:)

Sounds like a great outdoors living area for palms and people.  Post some photos when they arrive!

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On 10/8/2021 at 1:12 AM, piping plovers said:

Sounds like a great outdoors living area for palms and people.  Post some photos when they arrive!

Here are a couple, quickly taken this morning:) One waiting to be potted up in the porch and the other one placed on the back terrace where there is morning sun and then shade the rest of the day.

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21 minutes ago, petiole10 said:

Here are a couple, quickly taken this morning:) 

Great looking palms there and an attractive garden setting too!  You found some nice ones.  They are a little larger than my potted  belmos and it’s good to see what mine hopefully will develop into. 

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Looking through the classic horticulture  book Exotica, Vol 2, by Alfred Byrd Graf, I came across this side by side Howea photo.  Howea forsteriana on left and H. belmroreana on right.  Old black and white style but sometimes the plain silhouette provides a better graphic comparison.
 

The 2nd photo is H. belmoreana alone; typical of a very large potted size with distinctive curved fronds. Can’t wait until mine approach this size; but on the other hand, they will have outgrown their interior  space.

23C93E80-5E64-4B1E-8156-E6EA365EB289.thumb.jpeg.2e8d2bb2bd25e389be5513ce05cacaed.jpeg
 

H. belmoreana below:

2D26B6E9-040B-4954-8362-F3E322B2C201.thumb.jpeg.1bd99a00a29469d77db51cd85ad57f41.jpeg
 

 

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That is an interesting final photo Piping.  I wonder which nursery in NJ  (in Rutherford according to the photo) was growing such a nice sized Howea belmoreana in 1900.

So many of our NJ nurseries are have closed to make space for more and more ugly townhouses and garages.

Thanks for posting.

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49 minutes ago, oasis371 said:

That is an interesting final photo Piping.  I wonder which nursery in NJ  (in Rutherford according to the photo) was growing such a nice sized Howea belmoreana in 1900.

Ah yeh, that occurred to me that as the OP you’re from NJ and the nursery caption is a NJ nursery.   I believe it was Exotic Nurseries in Rutherford, NJ and the author of the these substantial horticultural reference books was affiliated with the nursery and maybe a nearby university.  I’ll verify and let you know.   Is there a legacy agricultural/ horticultural university nearby Rutherford? Interesting, It used to be that these books were available only in university libraries, now available used from am’zn.  Finally got one volume after wanting for 30 years.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

I thought some of you might be interested in these shots of a mature belmoreana...I live in Perth, Western Australia - not the ideal climate for these at all - but this one is under the shade of some enormous ficus and araucarias at an old nursery, and seems very happy. It's the only one I've ever seen/noticed here. These aren't great pix because of the shade, but...

(BTW: forsteriana grow very easily here and tolerate the higher summer temps than Lord Howe (it's 37C right now and 38C tomorrow), even if they do burn a bit!)

IMG20210601145555.jpg

IMG20210601145541.jpg

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6 hours ago, michael said:

I thought some of you might be interested in these shots of a mature belmoreana...I live in Perth, Western Australia - not the ideal climate for these at all - but this one is under the shade of some enormous ficus and araucarias at an old nursery, and seems very happy. It's the only one I've ever seen/noticed here. These aren't great pix because of the shade, but...

(BTW: forsteriana grow very easily here and tolerate the higher summer temps than Lord Howe (it's 37C right now and 38C tomorrow), even if they do burn a bit!)

Fascinating seeing this mature specimen. Thanks for sharing the photos and the Australia vs. Lord Howe information.

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I know, right.  lol.  Good thing they are slow growing indoors.   I at least need a conservatory; and maybe a trailer to transport them to warmer climes someday.

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  • 2 months later...
On 10/2/2021 at 10:03 AM, piping plovers said:

Thanks Oasis.  Yes I agree on the smaller pots for the Howeas to prevent over watering. That’s probably what makes the belmoreana more of a pain to deal with indoors: top heavy, small pots, rigid petioles - when you brush past them indoors them they don’t yield tipping the pot over.  Whereas, forsterianas fit better indoors (furniture, wall hangings, pets, etc) ; more flexible fronds, looser arrangement.  I tie the petioles together before bringing indoors to save horizontal space, that’s why my forsteriana photo appears so upright.  You really can’t do that with belmos.  I guess it depends on how much interior space one has.  If I had to choose one it would be forsteriana for indoors.

 

My understanding is that belmoreana likes more sun than forsteriana.  I think forsteriana prefers shade when immature as it is understory, lowlands level until it trunks high up.

 

I agree that CA is the place to go for Howeas in the US, as opposed to FL being reliable for most of our other potted exotics. Florida is too hot for their ideal temps.  Think Bermuda; I think Bermuda would be our closest east coast reference point for a similar Lord Howe Island climate.

 

To purchase Howea belmoreana, look up Jungle Music palms and cycads in Encinitas, CA.  Great customer service; top notch in my opinion.

 

I bought 1 gallons from them and appears they are available for a reasonable price. They shipped at a substantial size; very robust plants. Actually, not sure how they would ship greater than 2 gallons — you might think you purchased a washing machine when the big box arrives on your doorstep:)

 

You got that right about California being the place to go for either of the Howea species. So many places carry them even big box home improvement stores and to me they are CHEAP! compared to what is available here in the Omaha, NE area.  Problem is, just can't seem to keep either of them (species) happy indoors no matter what I do.

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9 minutes ago, sashaeffer said:

You got that right about California being the place to go for either of the Howea species. So many places carry them even big box home improvement stores and to me they are CHEAP! compared to what is available here in the Omaha, NE area. 

That would amaze me to walk into a Home Depot or something and see Howeas.  I bought 100 seeds of H. forsteriana from a nursery in Santa Barbara, CA last year. Even if I get an 80% germination rate I’ll be up to my neck in Howeas.

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Here in The Netherlands, belmoreana's are rare and so hard to get! In addition, as a young plant, they don't spectacularly differ from forsteriana, so why bother!

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Ha-Ha, I am so absent-minded that I forgot my offer to post images until Piping Plover reacted to my earlier post!  :mrlooney:

Here are some of my Howea palms.  (I have 13 in the ground, 4 H. b and 9 H. f)

H. belmoreana in the first two images, then two of H. forsteriana, and the fifth is my best form of H. belmoreana.  H. belmoreana fronds can be more variable that H. forsteriana.   This palm was a great score at Rancho Soledad, and we even negotiated a steep price discount from Jerry Hunter !!  :winkie:

  Please note the details, H. belmoreana holds the leaflets above horizontal (keeled) and the rachis is curved like a fish hook (recurved).  Also, H. belmoreana has the leaflet attachment beyond 90 degrees distally, while H. forsteriana leaflets are attached perpendicular to the rachis.

Disclaimer:  These details are not apparent on juvenile palms, and the two species can be difficult to distinguish when small. 

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San Francisco, California

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6 hours ago, piping plovers said:

  I bought 100 seeds of H. forsteriana from a nursery in Santa Barbara, CA last year. Even if I get an 80% germination rate I’ll be up to my neck in Howeas.

If you bought them from a certain orchid nursery,  then I must share that I failed to obtain any germination, even though I used the same method with which previously I had good success using seed from a different source.  :( 

The orchid nursery blamed my poor technique when I complained.  (I have germinated palm seeds for 42 years. )   :D

  Good luck !

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San Francisco, California

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Another certain distinction between the two species, Howea forsteriana has 2-5 spadices at each leafbase,  joined together at the base like the fingers on one's hand. 

H. belmoreana has only a solitary spadix at each leafbase.

 

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San Francisco, California

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7 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

If you bought them from a certain orchid nursery,  then I must share that I failed to obtain any germination, even though I used the same method with which previously I had good success using seed from a different source.  :( 

Yes I believe we purchased from the same source.  I may have to dial down my expectations then for germination rate.  I followed a germination method online that seemed well supported. It’s been 10 months now and 1 has germinated.  I was expecting anything from 12-18 months but this is my first time germinating these.  

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7 hours ago, Darold Petty said:

Ha-Ha, I am so absent-minded that I forgot my offer to post images until Piping Plover reacted to my earlier post!  

I’m glad that prompted you to remember and it was well worth the wait:) I revisited that post recently and realized that none of my likes or upvotes stuck from months ago. I think I’ve been doing that wrong.

Impressive specimens there.  Those forsterianas growing in sun,  —gorgeous, gorgeous!  They are like the coconut palms for those of us who don’t live in the ultra tropics.

Thanks for the quick identification points between the Howeas there; really sums that up well.

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From several different seed lots the average germination period for me has been 7-9 months.

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San Francisco, California

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  • 3 weeks later...

My two Belmoreana, bought at the end of last summer, have been moved around a bit during the winter and now coming into Spring - one of them is under the porch next to Chamaedorea Seifrizii and the other out on one of the patios.  These will both need shade protection for their first full summer to acclimatize them, even though they enjoy more sun than their close relative from Lord Howe Island:)

 

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9 hours ago, petiole10 said:

My two Belmoreana, bought at the end of last summer, have been moved around a bit during the winter and now coming into Spring - 

The palms look fantastic.  Really like the setting with the blue tile and archway, very Mediterranean and exotic looking with the belmoreana.

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H.belmoreana is often sold as houseplants here in England. 

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Larry Shone in wet and sunny north-east England!  Zone9 ish

Tie two fish together and though they have two tails they cannot swim <>< ><>

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On 3/20/2022 at 8:00 PM, Howeadypsis said:

H.belmoreana is often sold as houseplants here in England. 

I think it is Howea Forsteriana that you are thinking of.

Howea Belmoreana is a much less well known and specialized palm and much harder to find in the UK. Indeed it is also more specialized in other countries outside the UK despite the greater restrictions that have impacted the UK even further because of Brexit in terms of freedom of movement of plant services (as much as most other goods and services)

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19 hours ago, petiole10 said:

I think it is Howea Forsteriana that you are thinking of.

Howea Belmoreana is a much less well known and specialized palm and much harder to find in the UK. Indeed it is also more specialized in other countries outside the UK despite the greater restrictions that have impacted the UK even further because of Brexit in terms of freedom of movement of plant services (as much as most other goods and services)

I saw belmoreana listed as a house plant too recently. I'm pretty sure its listed in the old Hessayon house plant book

Larry Shone in wet and sunny north-east England!  Zone9 ish

Tie two fish together and though they have two tails they cannot swim <>< ><>

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What I found interesting with Howeas in England and the USA is that (decades ago) long before I was aware of there being 2 Howea species—-is that the illustrations, 19th century paintings, etc of Howeas in English/European publications, or settings never looked like the Howeas in USA 19th century or later photographs or film backgrounds.  The English ones always had the exaggerated recurved fronds, very dramatic in pots on pedestals.  I now understand that this was the H. Belmoreana characteristic.  
 

 The Victorian to gilded age time period is when Howeas were the must-have interior decoration for the aristocracy and nouveau riche in Europe and later USA.  My understanding is that it was Queen Victoria’s favorite palm, called the sentry palm (one source mentioned that the palms stood like sentrys at the 4 corners of her casket)—-and those clamoring to imitate her style had to have it.  I believe it was belmoreana, but would be curious to know otherwise.

I read once that the Howeas were in such great demand at that time, that the belmoreana was the first choice in Europe  (being the Queen’s favorite?) and that to meet world demand, suppliers substituted H. Forsteriana to send to the USA thinking that the Americans (particularly the unsophisticated newly rich) wouldn’t know the difference.  If this is true I find it amusing;).  This was an explanation given on why the rarer belmoreana is found more in English settings and the forsteriana in USA settings.

I recall reading that from a known expert on Howeas and will try to locate the source.  If anyone knows more on this it would be fascinating to hear. 

 

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Piping plovers,

What kind of growth do you get on your H. belmoreana? I've read that they are not only more challenging inside, but also much slower.  I realize you season yours outside.  I was listening to some "expert" say that H. forsteriana will only put out one leaf per year and thought that was just stupid and incorrect.  So, I have four, single H. forsteriana and one single, H. belmoreana.  I do find belmoreana very, very slow., mine has not grown all winter.  By comparison, my forsteriana have put out at least two new leaves from December till now.  And when they out outside, in very bright light (watching the direct sun), they just take off.  Again, your belmoreana are gorgeous, so you gotta be doing something right by them in R.I..

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1 hour ago, oasis371 said:

I do find belmoreana very, very slow., mine has not grown all winter. 

Thanks!  My belmos each put out one or maybe two leaves this past year, I think.  I’ll monitor them to see what they do this year. Honestly, I feel bad about  the winter care they get the past several years as they are in dim corners, near radiator, and I’m just trying to get them through the winter.  Dismal winters up here.  Even then I need to wait until the shade trees all leaf out in May so I can protect the belmos from sunburn prior to putting outdoors.  They have been browning on fronds so I know they are not happy in their indoor location but they are too intrusive to the family foot traffic anywhere else in the house.

I think their summer outdoors carries the belmos through the awful winter indoors. In summer they get constant balmy humid breezes from the nearby bay and ocean and it never gets too hot here.

I agree with you and have had similar experience with the forsterianas with faster growth rate.

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