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Replacing Oak with Foxtail or other Palm Help

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AspiringDana

I have a 30 year old Laurel Oak that sits 11' from my home and has begun to rip up the concrete driveway and sidewalk.

Regretfully, I believe I need to remove this tree since it's such a high risk, especially being in a South Florida (Hurricane) location.

I love the look of a bushy Foxtail Palm (is that Wodyetia Bifurcata?).  I am considering planting 2 or a clump of 3, however maintenance and risk are also factors for me.

I am really seeking a palm that exfoliates its leaves (and seeds stalks if possible).

1. Does this tree need trimming/pruning? If so, how often do the seeds need pruning?

2. Any tips for the absolute novice as to how or where to purchase the most healthy trees? Average costs?

3. Should I purchase them as babies or more mature trees? I am seeking them to provide some shade that my home will be missing without the large Oak in place.

4. Should I have concerns about these trees wreaking havoc on existing irrigation or my home's foundation?

Thanks so much for your help!

Oak Tree Removal 2.jpeg

Oak Tree Removal 3.jpeg

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Merlyn

I feel your pain with the water oaks.  20 years ago I bought a place with ~40 big water oaks.  I had moved from Michigan and had never heard of the cursed things, I was only familiar with red, white and live oaks.  I should have removed them at least 10 years ago, before they started dropping big branches on my roof and cars, and ripping up the concrete driveway.  And when I started I should have had someone just clearcut every one of them all at once.

Foxtails are a good choice in South FL, they aren't totally hardy up here in the Orlando area and tend to look crummy after each winter.  They are self-cleaning and the fronds dessicate before they fall, so it's not like a Royal that drops a 50lb 15' long frond at random.  The only downside for shade is that they aren't a really large diameter, only about 12-15' maximum.  So while your existing oak probably casts a 40' diameter circle, a foxtail won't do that.  But if you planted a row or a grouping you'd get a decent amount of shade.

Trunk size at the base is generally no more than about 2 feet.  As long as you keep that distance plus a bit, you should have no problems with the trunk messing up concrete or pavers.  Palm roots are generally not invasive, and they don't grow like oak roots.  Palm roots come out of the base of the trunk at their maximum diameter (about 0.5" for foxtails) and don't expand.  Oak roots start out tiny and grow bigger and bigger, which is why they crack foundations so badly.

Foxtails are fast growers, so you could buy 10-15' tall palms in something like a 15 gallon pot, and you'd have pretty large palms in 2-3 years.  A small Home Depot sized palm in a 3 gallon pot would probably take an additional 2-3 years just to get to 10-15' tall.  So it just depends on your budget and need for instant shade.

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redant

1. Does this tree need trimming/pruning? If so, how often do the seeds need pruning? needs no pruning but the seeds will be a pain if you don't remove the flowers first.

2. Any tips for the absolute novice as to how or where to purchase the most healthy trees? Average costs? If you go out west to Loxahatchee you can get them super cheap, you will pay up at HD.

3. Should I purchase them as babies or more mature trees? I am seeking them to provide some shade that my home will be missing without the large Oak in place. I'd go with ones with a couple of feet of trunk, probably get for $25 or less from Loxahatchee growers.

4. Should I have concerns about these trees wreaking havoc on existing irrigation or my home's foundation? Not at all.

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Butch

Here is a couple of foxtails about 2-1/2' from my house in SO. CA... My main water line and sprinkler controls are right behind the tree on the left (Horrible placement on my part)... I have just done some major sprinkler and controls repair/replacements, and had to cut thru some the roots (Very fine , but a lot of them) to do this... I was less than a foot or two away from the tree, but if I was a couple of feet farther away, there would have been no problem at all... These trees have done no damage to piping, foundation or the roof... This is my long winded way of saying that you should have no problem planting them where you want... You can also see how much shade is provided.. No where near as much as the oak...

9Y51QSL.jpg

Butch

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AspiringDana

Thanks so much everyone! I really appreciate all of your discussions and it helps me feel more confident about my decision.

Another Question: Are there ANY palms out there that you don't have to prune at all? The Foxtail is at least better than others for sure, but it would be ultimate to not ever have to prune.

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AspiringDana
2 hours ago, redant said:

1. Does this tree need trimming/pruning? If so, how often do the seeds need pruning? needs no pruning but the seeds will be a pain if you don't remove the flowers first.

2. Any tips for the absolute novice as to how or where to purchase the most healthy trees? Average costs? If you go out west to Loxahatchee you can get them super cheap, you will pay up at HD.

3. Should I purchase them as babies or more mature trees? I am seeking them to provide some shade that my home will be missing without the large Oak in place. I'd go with ones with a couple of feet of trunk, probably get for $25 or less from Loxahatchee growers.

4. Should I have concerns about these trees wreaking havoc on existing irrigation or my home's foundation? Not at all.

Thanks for this response Redant.

1. Are there any Palm trees that don't need pruning that you know of?

2. Do you have any favorite growers in Loxahatchee you'd suggest for me?

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Merlyn
2 hours ago, AspiringDana said:

1. Are there any Palm trees that don't need pruning that you know of?

Many palms are considered "self-cleaning," meaning that the fronds die off naturally, dessicate, then fall off the trunk by themselves.  This is great for low maintenance, in most cases.  Royals are the exception, because they just drop the whole frond at random while it still looks alive.  @redant has a huge forest full of Royals, and has told us about hearing the random BOOM! in the forest with a 15' long 50lb frond falling from 30' up...

Technically you don't "need" to prune a Foxtail, the only downside is that the seed bundles are big, heavy, and seem to germinate really, really well by just falling on the ground.  So you end up with a lot of palm "weeds" growing up nearby.

Other palms that are self-cleaning are Archontophoenix, the "King" palm.  Archontophoenix Alexandrae and Cunninghamiana are the common ones, and should grow well there.  The seeds can be "weedy" with those too.  The common Bottle and Spindle (Hyophorbe Lagenicaulis and Verschaffeltii) are self-cleaning when they are big.  I have a Spindle with ~7 feet of clear trunk at my front door, and it drops old fronds cleanly. 

You could always do something like a mix, like a Foxtail double where the oak is, and a King towards the rear of the house.  That would give you more distributed shade, sort of place palms strategically to allow for space to collect fronds while keeping sun off of the roof at the critical high heat hours.

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DCA_Palm_Fan
On 8/20/2021 at 2:17 PM, AspiringDana said:

have a 30 year old Laurel Oak that sits 11' from my home and has begun to rip up the concrete driveway and sidewalk.

Regretfully, I believe I need to remove this tree since it's such a high risk, especially being in a South Florida (Hurricane) location.

I love the look of a bushy Foxtail Palm (is that Wodyetia Bifurcata?).  I am considering planting 2 or a clump of 3, however maintenance and risk are also factors for me.

I am really seeking a palm that exfoliates its leaves (and seeds stalks if possible).

1. Does this tree need trimming/pruning? If so, how often do the seeds need pruning?

2. Any tips for the absolute novice as to how or where to purchase the most healthy trees? Average costs?

3. Should I purchase them as babies or more mature trees? I am seeking them to provide some shade that my home will be missing without the large Oak in place.

4. Should I have concerns about these trees wreaking havoc on existing irrigation or my home's foundation?

Thanks so much for your help!

1.  If you are asking about the oak tree,  it looks fine to me.   That said,  its way too close to the home and will sadly probably have to be removed at some point.  A friend of mine just had to remove an enormous old live oak as it was close to his home.   While it looked good, it was beginning to decline due to old age as it was well over 100 years old.   They had to have it taken down / removed because it completely buckled their drive way to where it was almost unusable.  It also was beginning to damage the foundation, and it dropped large limbs during storms which damaged their car and took a gutter off the home.  

2.  While I do not know costs nor were to get them in your area, they should be readily available for you.  Id shop around local palm nurseries, or possibly even the big box stores. 

3.   If I were installing these palms, id purchase them around the size of the ones in the photo, and space them apart like in the other photo.  

4.  Palm trees, if planted a few feet away from the home should not damage a driveway or foundation.  I don't think they would even planted right up against the home, but then other problems arise with the fronds hitting the home/ gutters / roof.     As for irrigation, I don't think these will damage it at all.  Just be mindful where the lines run when they dig!

 

Good luck and keep us up to date please!  Welcome to Palmtalk! 

R.jpeg

73bef3237176a5f7aea4734967b4d01a--foxtail-palm-florida-flowers.jpg

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D Palm

I prefer royals because of the massive size they achieve. They do tend to drop fronds before half or fully brown. I was working in Pembroke Pines, FL walking on the sidewalk and one dropped 5 ‘ in front of me. Almost took me out. Super duper low maintenance. I always look up at the Royal if am walking near to check for a frond peeling back from the shaft the same manner I look at the ground for for ants when I stop walking.

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redant
On 8/21/2021 at 12:13 PM, AspiringDana said:

Thanks for this response Redant.

1. Are there any Palm trees that don't need pruning that you know of?

2. Do you have any favorite growers in Loxahatchee you'd suggest for me?

They all have seeds but some less seedy then others. Foxtails have very large seeds and the pods extremely heavy. but need no front pruning Kings have lots of smaller seeds.  Kentiopsis oliviformis are great for FL but much harder to find. Self cleaning and hardly any seeds, plus they are really nice and easy to grow. Kentiopsis oliviformis - Pacsoa

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AspiringDana
On 8/21/2021 at 3:40 PM, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

1.  If you are asking about the oak tree,  it looks fine to me.   That said,  its way too close to the home and will sadly probably have to be removed at some point.  A friend of mine just had to remove an enormous old live oak as it was close to his home.   While it looked good, it was beginning to decline due to old age as it was well over 100 years old.   They had to have it taken down / removed because it completely buckled their drive way to where it was almost unusable.  It also was beginning to damage the foundation, and it dropped large limbs during storms which damaged their car and took a gutter off the home.  

2.  While I do not know costs nor were to get them in your area, they should be readily available for you.  Id shop around local palm nurseries, or possibly even the big box stores. 

3.   If I were installing these palms, id purchase them around the size of the ones in the photo, and space them apart like in the other photo.  

4.  Palm trees, if planted a few feet away from the home should not damage a driveway or foundation.  I don't think they would even planted right up against the home, but then other problems arise with the fronds hitting the home/ gutters / roof.     As for irrigation, I don't think these will damage it at all.  Just be mindful where the lines run when they dig!

 

Good luck and keep us up to date please!  Welcome to Palmtalk! 

R.jpeg

73bef3237176a5f7aea4734967b4d01a--foxtail-palm-florida-flowers.jpg

DCA_Palm_Fan: Thanks so much for your help and discussion! I am wondering why you'd tell me to plant these so far apart? I was thinking of planting a double or triple clump of these. I love the way they look grouped together. I am assuming that means I will need to purchase them already in clump formation.

I googled "Kentiopsis oliviformis" to see if I liked them as much or more than the Foxtail, but alas, I really have a ❤️ on for these trees!

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AspiringDana
On 8/21/2021 at 11:06 PM, D Palm said:

I prefer royals because of the massive size they achieve. They do tend to drop fronds before half or fully brown. I was working in Pembroke Pines, FL walking on the sidewalk and one dropped 5 ‘ in front of me. Almost took me out. Super duper low maintenance. I always look up at the Royal if am walking near to check for a frond peeling back from the shaft the same manner I look at the ground for for ants when I stop walking.

It's funny, everything you've just told me about the Royal Palm makes me think this is definitely not the tree for this spot on my property! Thanks so much! You've helped me scratch that one off the list!

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AspiringDana
On 8/21/2021 at 3:14 PM, Merlyn said:

Many palms are considered "self-cleaning," meaning that the fronds die off naturally, dessicate, then fall off the trunk by themselves.  This is great for low maintenance, in most cases.  Royals are the exception, because they just drop the whole frond at random while it still looks alive.  @redant has a huge forest full of Royals, and has told us about hearing the random BOOM! in the forest with a 15' long 50lb frond falling from 30' up...

Technically you don't "need" to prune a Foxtail, the only downside is that the seed bundles are big, heavy, and seem to germinate really, really well by just falling on the ground.  So you end up with a lot of palm "weeds" growing up nearby.

Other palms that are self-cleaning are Archontophoenix, the "King" palm.  Archontophoenix Alexandrae and Cunninghamiana are the common ones, and should grow well there.  The seeds can be "weedy" with those too.  The common Bottle and Spindle (Hyophorbe Lagenicaulis and Verschaffeltii) are self-cleaning when they are big.  I have a Spindle with ~7 feet of clear trunk at my front door, and it drops old fronds cleanly. 

You could always do something like a mix, like a Foxtail double where the oak is, and a King towards the rear of the house.  That would give you more distributed shade, sort of place palms strategically to allow for space to collect fronds while keeping sun off of the roof at the critical high heat hours.

You make great points Merlyn! Thank you!

I did google the Palms you mentioned (thanks for that info!!) but I guess I really do love this Foxtail the most. I also really like the idea of possibly planting another or a few other Palms on the side or rear of the house for more distributed shade. It's a thought and I do have space at least for something at the side. This area where the Oak is was just perfect as it took care of the westerly afternoon sun. I think the King is way too large for my property (unless I did plant it where the Oak is, but I really don't want to deal with those large, heavy fronds, especially so close to the roof). Thanks so much for the discussion and ideas! Much appreciated.

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Butch
3 hours ago, AspiringDana said:

You make great points Merlyn! Thank you!

I did google the Palms you mentioned (thanks for that info!!) but I guess I really do love this Foxtail the most.  I think the King is way too large for my property (unless I did plant it where the Oak is, but I really don't want to deal with those large, heavy fronds, especially so close to the roof). Thanks so much for the discussion and ideas! Much appreciated.

I think you mean the royals are to large for your property... Most kings are no larger than foxtails.. But I agree with you that foxtails are a really nice palm... I don't think the seeds would be a problem.... They are about the size of a small chicken egg.. Easy to pick up and discard (Or plant ;))... 

Butch

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DCA_Palm_Fan
15 hours ago, AspiringDana said:

DCA_Palm_Fan: Thanks so much for your help and discussion! I am wondering why you'd tell me to plant these so far apart? I was thinking of planting a double or triple clump of these. I love the way they look grouped together. I am assuming that means I will need to purchase them already in clump formation.

I googled "Kentiopsis oliviformis" to see if I liked them as much or more than the Foxtail, but alas, I really have a ❤️ on for these trees!

 

Hey there.

 

You  don't have to space them that far.  That is just what is recommended from what I have seen.  Also my experience with planting solitary palms in "clumps", is that there is always a risk of at least one dying.  This is almost always due to competition for nutrients/ water, even to some extent light.   When solitary palms are forced to grow in such close quarters, it CAN cause them to compete so much that one falls behind and slowly dies.  Sometimes 2 in a clump of 3 or 4 wont make it.    My friend has 2 clumps of 3 Christmas palms each, so far he's lost  one from one clump, and in the other clump, one is declining.   They have 8 clumps of foxtail palms.  5, 3 tree clumps, and 3, two tree clumps.    At least one tree  in 3 of his 5,  3 tree clumps is much smaller than the other two and is declining and will probably not make it. 

Of course you can plant them however you like.   Clumps are fine.    I tend to like solitary palms with at least some space between the adult trunks. 

 

In your climate there are so many other gorgeous tall palms you can grow though.    I do love the foxtails yes, but here where I live they are a dime a dozen in plantings and are so overused.   Kind of like  Dypsis lutescens.   I cant really say that about Palmettos , because they are native palms so this is their home.  

 

Good luck with your project and please post after photos!   

 

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Merlyn
11 hours ago, Butch said:

I think you mean the royals are to large for your property... Most kings are no larger than foxtails..

I was thinking the same thing.  Royals (Roystonea Regia) are pretty big, around 25-30' in diameter when mature.  Kings (Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana) are about the same size as Foxtails (Wodyetia Bifurcata).  Mature diameter on Foxtails and Kings are around 15-20'.  Out of ~250 palms that I have in the ground, I have 6 Foxtail clusters (2 singles, 2 doubles, 2 triples).  They are definitely one of my favorite palms, even though they have become pretty common around here.

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AspiringDana
2 hours ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

"Also my experience with planting solitary palms in "clumps", is that there is always a risk of at least one dying."

"I do love the foxtails yes, but here where I live they are a dime a dozen in plantings and are so overused."

This is new info for me about the clumped Palms having death issues, but good to know! Thank you! I will keep close watch and hope that doesn't happen.

Here in my 'hood, we have tons and tons of Oaks. That's our main attraction. You can imagine the constant maintenance issues this has caused us! Most homeowners in my 'hood have removed the Oaks that sit next to their homes for the same reasons as I'm having to remove mine. It's just too risky to leave it, especially so close to the house and foundation.

We actually have very few Foxtail palms in my 'hood and the few we have look pretty good for the most part. I'll take another look around and see if I can find any that have died off for reasons you've stated. I'm pretty good about fertilizing my Robellini Palms, so I'll continue with anything new I plant. Thanks for the help, tips and warm welcome!

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AspiringDana
2 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I was thinking the same thing.  Royals (Roystonea Regia) are pretty big, around 25-30' in diameter when mature.  Kings (Archontophoenix Cunninghamiana) are about the same size as Foxtails (Wodyetia Bifurcata).  Mature diameter on Foxtails and Kings are around 15-20'.  Out of ~250 palms that I have in the ground, I have 6 Foxtail clusters (2 singles, 2 doubles, 2 triples).  They are definitely one of my favorite palms, even though they have become pretty common around here.

The King Palms are beautiful, I agree, but in my neighborhood, they're somewhat common, whereas we have very few Foxtail Palms here.

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sonoranfans
On 8/20/2021 at 11:17 AM, AspiringDana said:

I have a 30 year old Laurel Oak that sits 11' from my home and has begun to rip up the concrete driveway and sidewalk.

Regretfully, I believe I need to remove this tree since it's such a high risk, especially being in a South Florida (Hurricane) location.

I love the look of a bushy Foxtail Palm (is that Wodyetia Bifurcata?).  I am considering planting 2 or a clump of 3, however maintenance and risk are also factors for me.

I am really seeking a palm that exfoliates its leaves (and seeds stalks if possible).

1. Does this tree need trimming/pruning? If so, how often do the seeds need pruning?

2. Any tips for the absolute novice as to how or where to purchase the most healthy trees? Average costs?

3. Should I purchase them as babies or more mature trees? I am seeking them to provide some shade that my home will be missing without the large Oak in place.

4. Should I have concerns about these trees wreaking havoc on existing irrigation or my home's foundation?

Thanks so much for your help!

Oak Tree Removal 2.jpeg

Oak Tree Removal 3.jpeg

Foxtails are not really a good shade palm.  Sometimes you want a palm tree to do everything but it cant do it all.  All your other questions answered here but foxtails are a 3 on a 1-10 for shade.  You could group bunches of palms but dont put them too close as they will compete and weaken each other if they are less than 2-3' apart.  You are in a warm area and have lots of choices.  One royal throws more shade than ~5 foxtails.  there are many kinds of "kings" archontophoenix species, the cunninghaniana does not grow as large a crown here and is IMO the least attractive.  Kentiopsis throw more shade than a foxtail, much longer leaves and a happy one carries a few more leaves than a foxtail.  The kentiopsis is a more attractive tree than a foxtail IMO, and probably throws ~ 50% more shade when happy.   One bismarckia nobillis throws more shade than even a royal, have you looked at one of those?  That oak throws an awful lot of shade, I think you will be surprised that you may need 10+ foxtail to throw that kind of shade and they will have to grow up for 5-7 years to get there.  It will take time for any group of palms to shade that driveway even a modest amount, the removal of the oak and palm plantings will yield little instant shade.  If I was looking for shade there I'd pick the bismarckia as they are fast and have a 25' wide umbrella of shade.  After 10 years mine throws more shade than any palm I have in my yard of 60+ palms and doesn't drop the heavy leaves of a royal which can be a hazard around walkways or cars.

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sonoranfans

Here is one bismarckia throwing shade about 11 years since it was barely a foot and a half tall.  The first leaves are about 11-12' in height off the ground

bizziAug2021 F.JPG

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AspiringDana
1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

Foxtails are not really a good shade palm.  Sometimes you want a palm tree to do everything but it cant do it all.  All your other questions answered here but foxtails are a 3 on a 1-10 for shade.  You could group bunches of palms but dont put them too close as they will compete and weaken each other if they are less than 2-3' apart.  You are in a warm area and have lots of choices.  One royal throws more shade than ~5 foxtails.  there are many kinds of "kings" archontophoenix species, the cunninghaniana does not grow as large a crown here and is IMO the least attractive.  Kentiopsis throw more shade than a foxtail, much longer leaves and a happy one carries a few more leaves than a foxtail.  The kentiopsis is a more attractive tree than a foxtail IMO, and probably throws ~ 50% more shade when happy.   One bismarckia nobillis throws more shade than even a royal, have you looked at one of those?  That oak throws an awful lot of shade, I think you will be surprised that you may need 10+ foxtail to throw that kind of shade and they will have to grow up for 5-7 years to get there.  It will take time for any group of palms to shade that driveway even a modest amount, the removal of the oak and palm plantings will yield little instant shade.  If I was looking for shade there I'd pick the bismarckia as they are fast and have a 25' wide umbrella of shade.  After 10 years mine throws more shade than any palm I have in my yard of 60+ palms and doesn't drop the heavy leaves of a royal which can be a hazard around walkways or cars.

Thank you for this discussion Sonoranfans! Much appreciated. I have considered the shade issue and I know I'm not going to get the amount of shade with 1-2 Foxtails that I'd get with a larger frond palm. I also have to like the look and this one is my fav so far. We have a very large Bismarkia in the common area on the corner of our street and another person on our street has one in his yard and it's completely too large for the postage stamp sized yard they have. While I really appreciate the look of it on our corner, I don't love the way it looks when there's a frond dying and laying low on the trunk that needs pruning, something I just don't want to do if I don't have to. I don't know that I want to listen to the hard leaves rustling in the wind all the time either. I guess it's just not for me, although I completely see the benefits of the shade it can offer when mature enough. Thanks for your perspective, which is why I came here to post. I was hoping for experienced owners to know what might be a good option or plan for me. Thank you!

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AspiringDana
1 hour ago, sonoranfans said:

Here is one bismarckia throwing shade about 11 years since it was barely a foot and a half tall.  The first leaves are about 11-12' in height off the ground

bizziAug2021 F.JPG

A beautiful tree! Thank you for sharing!

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sonoranfans
2 hours ago, AspiringDana said:

Thank you for this discussion Sonoranfans! Much appreciated. I have considered the shade issue and I know I'm not going to get the amount of shade with 1-2 Foxtails that I'd get with a larger frond palm. I also have to like the look and this one is my fav so far. We have a very large Bismarkia in the common area on the corner of our street and another person on our street has one in his yard and it's completely too large for the postage stamp sized yard they have. While I really appreciate the look of it on our corner, I don't love the way it looks when there's a frond dying and laying low on the trunk that needs pruning, something I just don't want to do if I don't have to. I don't know that I want to listen to the hard leaves rustling in the wind all the time either. I guess it's just not for me, although I completely see the benefits of the shade it can offer when mature enough. Thanks for your perspective, which is why I came here to post. I was hoping for experienced owners to know what might be a good option or plan for me. Thank you!

Just to be clear, foxtails are minimal shade trees.  There are a few that are worse(carpentaria) but alexander kings crush them too in a multiple.  So I would then interpret that shade is not  real issue for you.  If the foxtails grow well in your area they might be a little better than in mine.  They them, bottles, spindles, adonidia, etc are useless for shade IMO.  Among crownshafted palms, the alexander kings or better closely related maximas will grow much faster with less maintenance/upkeep than a foxtail in 10a and they will throw more shade.  Disclaimer: I have no foxtails so I am biased.  They tend to yellow ad get brown spot mold here and they are everywhere.

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AspiringDana
21 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Just to be clear, foxtails are minimal shade trees.  There are a few that are worse(carpentaria) but alexander kings crush them too in a multiple.  So I would then interpret that shade is not  real issue for you.  If the foxtails grow well in your area they might be a little better than in mine.  They them, bottles, spindles, adonidia, etc are useless for shade IMO.  Among crownshafted palms, the alexander kings or better closely related maximas will grow much faster with less maintenance/upkeep than a foxtail in 10a and they will throw more shade.  Disclaimer: I have no foxtails so I am biased.  They tend to yellow ad get brown spot mold here and they are everywhere.

I get it. They're super common where you live, but not in my neighborhood. That can be for reasons you mentioned (brown spot mold, yellowing). I think I'll take a photo of the ones I've seen in my neighborhood and confirm with members here if I'm actually wanting the Foxtail palm. Maybe the one I like is actually a different variety.

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AspiringDana

Here's a sample of one of the few Foxtails in my neighborhood.  Are there different varieties? If so, this is the one I'm loving.

 

IMG_8925.jpeg

Edited by AspiringDana
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Merlyn
2 hours ago, AspiringDana said:

Here's a sample of one of the few Foxtails in my neighborhood.  Are there different varieties? If so, this is the one I'm loving.

That looks like a pretty standard Foxtail pair.  A lot of them look bad just due to poor fertilizing and/or watering.  And up here in the Orlando area they yellow every winter, pretty much any time the temperatures drop below freezing.  A lot of queens look bad for the same fertilizer/water reasons.

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AspiringDana
On 8/21/2021 at 3:40 PM, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

73bef3237176a5f7aea4734967b4d01a--foxtail-palm-florida-flowers.jpg

@DCA_Palm_Fan Can you please give me some idea of how many gallons the palms in this small photo that you posted would be? The approximate height?

Also, if anyone would like to weigh in on the watering needed for a newly planted triple clump of Foxtails, that would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

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DCA_Palm_Fan
2 hours ago, AspiringDana said:

@DCA_Palm_Fan Can you please give me some idea of how many gallons the palms in this small photo that you posted would be? The approximate height?

Also, if anyone would like to weigh in on the watering needed for a newly planted triple clump of Foxtails, that would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Those look like 25 gallon to me.  Height looks like 15 feet or so.  Perhaps someone that is in the trade can either verify my guess or give the correct container size?    Pretty sure you'd need to water them fairly heavily  the first several weeks.  

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D Palm

My guess would also be a 25 gallon size. I usually only see double/triples in ball/burlap.

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DCA_Palm_Fan
On 8/31/2021 at 2:05 PM, AspiringDana said:

Here's a sample of one of the few Foxtails in my neighborhood.  Are there different varieties? If so, this is the one I'm loving.

 

IMG_8925.jpeg

To my knowledge there are not different varieties of Woodyetia Bifurcata.  However, because they are so overused here, I have noticed some little variation in them.  My guess is that is has to do with siting, care, fertilisation, etc.   As has been pointed out, they suffer like queen palms do from lack of watering and feeding, and thus often look kind of crappy.   You'd get alot more shade out of a coconut imho.   I have also seen foxtails get almost a big as royals.  A friend in fort lauderdale has 4 of them, and they are HUGE.   The first time I went to his place, I thought they were royals at first because of how large they are.    That said, they are also probably VERY old. 

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AspiringDana

@DCA_Palm_Fan Does your friend with the old, huge Foxtails have a good fertilization/watering program I might emulate?

Anyone want to weigh in on their favorite fertilization / watering techniques or products for these trees?

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DCA_Palm_Fan
On 9/11/2021 at 1:42 PM, AspiringDana said:

@DCA_Palm_Fan Does your friend with the old, huge Foxtails have a good fertilization/watering program I might emulate?

Anyone want to weigh in on their favorite fertilization / watering techniques or products for these trees?

I don't think he does much.  Rain and Sprinklers do the watering and I think he occasionally throws down some palm gain (its a fertilizer for palms and that's the brand name") and that is it.    I'm sure his are well over 50 years old now.  

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Merlyn
On 9/11/2021 at 1:42 PM, AspiringDana said:

Anyone want to weigh in on their favorite fertilization / watering techniques or products for these trees?

I have several foxtail singles/doubles/triples around the yard.  They were all bought as skinny ~5' tall palms in 3 gallon pots around the summer of 2018.  The big ones in the ground are now about the size of the two 15g/25g pots that DCA_Palm_Fan posted.  They are just downhill from a gutter drain, so they get a LOT of water.  And they are also near a Viburnum hedge, so they probably get a double dose of fertilizer with generic 10-10-10 for the Viburnum and Lesco Palm (from Home Depot) for the Foxtails.  The others are dramatically smaller, but that could be partially my fault from transplanting them at least once or twice over the past 3 years. 

I have a dripline setup that delivers about 1 gallon of water near each palm each morning.  It's two 1gph drippers running for 30 minutes.  If you have a sprinkler setup you could convert a sprinkler head to a dripper (HD sells a kit for about $10) and use either individual button drippers or the mini fan sprayers.  Just make sure that any sprinklers are not directly spraying on the trunks, because that can cause rot.

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AspiringDana

@Merlyn Thank you SO MUCH for that information! I would have specifically put a sprinkler right at the roots. I will need to do the watering with my garden hose pretty much daily. Any idea how long a fan spray kind of setting on a garden hose might be to get the 1 gph? Also, where exactly should the fan sprayers be directed? the nearby soil? Sorry if that sounds super newbie, but that's what I am!

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Merlyn
45 minutes ago, AspiringDana said:

@Merlyn Thank you SO MUCH for that information! I would have specifically put a sprinkler right at the roots. I will need to do the watering with my garden hose pretty much daily. Any idea how long a fan spray kind of setting on a garden hose might be to get the 1 gph? Also, where exactly should the fan sprayers be directed? the nearby soil? Sorry if that sounds super newbie, but that's what I am!

It's useful if you have a sprinkler head pipe "somewhat near" the palms, so you can put a low pressure converter on it:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-Riser-Connection-Kit-RCKIT-1PS/202078374

This converts any standard thread sprinkler riser to a 30psi regulated drip output.  It takes 1/2" drip tubing:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-1-2-in-x-100-ft-Drip-Irrigation-Tubing-Coil-T70-100S/204751445

And then you can add individual button emitters (0.5gph, 1gph, 2gph or 5gph) with 1/4" tubing to route the water to where you want it.  I generally place 2x1gph drippers for a Foxtail single or double, running 30 minutes per day.  I place the end of the 1/4" tubing about 1 foot from the base of the trunk, with the ends of the 2 lines sorta evenly spaced around the trunk:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-1-0-GPH-Emitters-30-Pack-SW10-30PSX/202078404

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-1-4-in-x-100-ft-Distribution-Tubing-T22-100SX/202078362

OR you could use small "fan sprayers on a stick" and place the fan near the trunks, with the fans spraying AWAY from the trunks.  Here's the 180 degree fans, they also make full pattern and 90 degree pattern:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-Drip-Half-Pattern-Microspray-on-Stake-MSSTKTH1SX/204751221

You just adjust the flow rate with the small dial on the fan sprayer, or by using 1 or more of the button drippers.  So you could use a pair of the 90 degree fans, or a couple of drippers, etc.  You just want to water the ground "near" the trunk (1' to 6' away) but not directly spray or drip water on the trunk base.  That's why I like the dripline setup, because it's super easy to move the lines around.  Once you get the hang of it, it's really easy to run lines to individual plants or areas.  I have 3 separate timers with 8 watering zones and probably 2000' of 1/2" line and over 1000 button drippers in my yard...  :D  The only problem I've had with my setup is that I'm on well water and the pressure regulators get clogged about once per year.

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AspiringDana

@Merlyn Thank you SO much for that lesson in how to irrigate! I really appreciate that.

Unfortunately I live in an HOA and the hose bib is on the side of my home. This tree is on the opposite side of my sidewalk, making things more difficult. So I need to put a hose over the sidewalk where the HOA landscapers walk and the hose on the grass that they mow. I will figure something out with the HOA's irrigation company I think. I'll notify him of the change and see if he can't set up something that would work well and not be a hazard for any of the HOA workers. Worst case scenario I put a hose sprayer out there myself and bring it in daily, but man, what a hassle! Thanks again! I will let him know.

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Merlyn
1 minute ago, AspiringDana said:

Unfortunately I live in an HOA and the hose bib is on the side of my home. This tree is on the opposite side of my sidewalk, making things more difficult. So I need to put a hose over the sidewalk where the HOA landscapers walk and the hose on the grass that they mow. 

You can run a line underneath the sidewalk, it's not that difficult in sandy Floriduh.  Just dig a hole on either side and run a fish line (fiberglass rod type) under the sidewalk.  Then duct tape the 1/2" dripline to the fiberglass rod really well, and pull it through.  I've done it a couple of times for irrigation pipes and for landscape lighting.  The lighting was super easy, the 1/2" pipe was a little tougher.  Then you could use a hose end timer :

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-Electronic-Hose-Timer-1ZEHTMR/203209335

And a hose-to-1/2" regulator:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-Faucet-Connection-Kit-FCKIT-1PS2/202078372

You can bury the 1/2" dripline away from where they might use an edger, then just pop it up out of the ground near your palms.  If you want to use your hose for something else, just put a "Y" adaptor on the hose bib.  That way the dripline is permanently installed and on an automatic timer, and you still have sidewalk access and your regular hose bib.  As long as the pipe is deep enough at the sidewalk the HOA guys won't chop it in half with their edger.

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AspiringDana

@Merlyn I suppose I could do this with the help of an irrigation specialist. I'm not physically able to do this kind of work. I can barely turn a hose end and secure it well enough to keep it from dripping with my poor hand strength. Another concern is the area is pretty filled with oak roots so I'm not sure how close I could get to the area needed with that technique. You sound very handy! I wish I had someone like you around, but that's unfortunately not the case. ^_^ Thanks so much for the ideas though! Very interesting and helpful.

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