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Hybrid creation: Butia odorata x Parajubaea torallyi var. torallyi F1


Jonathan Haycock

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21 minutes ago, Jonathan Haycock said:

This reminds me of the BxP. sunkha I used to have in UK (from Patrick Schafer). Although smaller than your example, it had the same look about it.

Yes , this is an example of BxPjs from Schafer. It will be interesting to watch the two and compare. 

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  • 2 months later...
On 8/16/2021 at 6:57 PM, Fallen Munk said:

Awesome job!  Put me on your waiting list.

Me too I also have this cross from Patric definitely one of my prized possessions =) pics are 16months of growth from a 4x10 to a 5g which it's now pot bound =/ 

T J 

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T J 

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4 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Me too I also have this cross from Patric definitely one of my prized possessions =) pics are 16months of growth from a 4x10 to a 5g which it's now pot bound =/ 

T J 

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Yours has a similar look to mine, although mine has is very glaucous and tomentous, almost silver looking.

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4 hours ago, matthedlund said:

Yours has a similar look to mine, although mine has is very glaucous and tomentous, almost silver looking

Yeah I can't wait to put it in the ground. My container ranch is busting at the seems haha 

T J 

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T J 

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I probably should've purchased one from Patrix but did not.  @Jonathan Haycock I'd love to get one once you're selling.

@Jesse PNW there's a few older threads on here documenting some of the process, many with Dr Wilcox, Dick Douglas, Tim Hopper and Erik.  This thread on the Palmpedia forum is really good as well...

http://www.palmpedia.net/forum/threads/the-making-of-a-butiagrus.2231/

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

Jonathan where did you learn how to do this?  Do you have any links to online resources?  

Just by reading lots of PalmTalk threads over the years and talking to knowledgeable palm enthusiasts. The following threads have some real nuggets I seem to recall:

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/4789-jubutyagrus/

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/29646-parajubaea-sunkha-pollen-processing-for-hybrids/

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For those of you that frequent Facebook, I’ve set up a group called “Pommy palms”, where many of the palms I’ve seen since emigrating to Australia have been documented. If you wish to be a member, copy and paste “Pommy palms” into Facebook to view the page and click “Join group”.

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  • 3 months later...
On 1/22/2022 at 6:04 PM, MarkbVet said:

Any updates on the seedlings?  Do you have some decent sized plants now?  Would love to see photo updates if you do!   Great work!

Still just seedlings pushing their second leaf although I expect growth to ramp up now we’ve moved to the Gold Coast, Queensland.

Certainly different (softer leaves) compared to pure Butia odorata and BxJ F1 I have at the same stage. 

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For those of you that frequent Facebook, I’ve set up a group called “Pommy palms”, where many of the palms I’ve seen since emigrating to Australia have been documented. If you wish to be a member, copy and paste “Pommy palms” into Facebook to view the page and click “Join group”.

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3 hours ago, Jonathan Haycock said:

Still just seedlings pushing their second leaf although I expect growth to ramp up now we’ve moved to the Gold Coast, Queensland.

Certainly different (softer leaves) compared to pure Butia odorata and BxJ F1 I have at the same stage. 

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Lots of pretty baby palms!  Good luck with their growth,  hoping to see relatively fast growth compared to BxJ.  

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  • 6 months later...

Clear differences can be seen between the various hybrids and pure Butia. All seed came from the same “mother” Butia.

Left to right: Butia odorata, Butia odorata x Syagrus schizophylla F1, Butia odorata x Parajubaea torallyi var. torallyi F1, Butia odorata x Jubaea chilensis F1.

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Butia odorata
A06B4203-1168-451E-8AC5-B36343154042.thumb.jpeg.8f51756341022be099ebfcd979b98b8d.jpeg

Butia odorata x Syagrus schizophylla F1

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Butia odorata x Parajubaea torallyi var. torallyi F1
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Butia odorata x Jubaea chilensis F1
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1 hour ago, Jonathan Haycock said:

Clear differences can be seen between the various hybrids and pure Butia. All seed came from the same “mother” Butia.

 

All looking great, Jonathan. Are they all the same age, or is the our Butia older than the hybrids?

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29 minutes ago, Josh76 said:

All looking great, Jonathan. Are they all the same age, or is the our Butia older than the hybrids?

Cheers Josh.

All hybrids were created over one summer around November 2020 to January 2021, with fruits harvested a few months later. 

I pulled the Butia seedling from the trunk of the mother and potted it up. I’d say it’s a good 12 months older than the hybrids.

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I lost two full blooded sunkhas this past spring from winter damage.  One was over 7 feet tall.  Lowest temp it probably saw was around 20F.  My BxPsunkhas had spear pull.  I think the Bxtorallyi did too, but it recovered quickly.  It grows very fast, but I get leaf spotting, probably from the coastal humidity.

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God bless America...

and everywhere else too.

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  • 3 months later...

These Butia odorata x Parajubaea torallyi var. torallyi F1‘s are really starting to motor along now, and appear to look more like Parajubaea TvT than Butia at this stage.

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For those of you that frequent Facebook, I’ve set up a group called “Pommy palms”, where many of the palms I’ve seen since emigrating to Australia have been documented. If you wish to be a member, copy and paste “Pommy palms” into Facebook to view the page and click “Join group”.

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On 8/17/2022 at 8:16 PM, VA Jeff said:

I lost two full blooded sunkhas this past spring from winter damage.  One was over 7 feet tall.  Lowest temp it probably saw was around 20F.  My BxPsunkhas had spear pull.  I think the Bxtorallyi did too, but it recovered quickly.  It grows very fast, but I get leaf spotting, probably from the coastal humidity.

Were these is Virginia or Georgia? 

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

On 11/21/2022 at 5:16 AM, RJ said:

Were these is Virginia or Georgia? 

Southeastern coastal Virginia was where the sunkhas were.  I kept trunk cutting the sunkha to avoid it rotting, but it slowly succombed over several months.  I almost lost another (Butia x Jubaea)x syagrus too, but I developed a new trunk cutting method that saved it.  If only I had tried that method with the larger sunkha, I am almost sure it would have survived.  I might post my new method one of these days.

 

For comparison, I wrapped a trunked mule palm in my yard.  It lost most of the leaves, but recovered well, although with fewer leaves than last year, now that the growing season is over.  I will probably be moving in a few months, most likely northern South Carolina.  The tender palms might fare better there.

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God bless America...

and everywhere else too.

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  • 3 months later...

Interesting hybrids there are, once the palms I have get larger, I will try to experiment with new hybrids.

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On 3/20/2023 at 1:19 PM, Brad Mondel said:

Any updates on the seedlings?

All need to go in larger pots now. The 4 below have recently been repotted, 1 of which is starting to go pinnate.

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For those of you that frequent Facebook, I’ve set up a group called “Pommy palms”, where many of the palms I’ve seen since emigrating to Australia have been documented. If you wish to be a member, copy and paste “Pommy palms” into Facebook to view the page and click “Join group”.

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23 hours ago, psy460 said:

Do you remind temperature it was when you polenisated the butia ? 

It was during summer in Adelaide so around 25-30C I would guess.

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How do you differentiate between the male and the female infloresence? And what soil mix do you use for seedlings (PH and/or substrate/NPK content)? I'm very curious to try this myself in the future.@Jonathan Haycock 

Edited by Enar

Winter low: 16F (December 2022), Summer/spring high: ~85F (March 2023). Very humid climate.

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5 hours ago, Enar said:

How do you differentiate between the male and the female infloresence? And what soil mix do you use for seedlings (PH and/or substrate/NPK content)? I'm very curious to try this myself in the future.@Jonathan Haycock 

With most cocoid palms, I’ve found the male flowers are much smaller than the females. Males also tend to be in higher concentrations towards the end of the inflorescence branches, but also higher up either side of the female flowers.

I use Searles potting mix plus perlite. https://www.bunnings.com.au/searles-65l-premium-advanced-potting-mix_p3010461?store=8451&gclid=Cj0KCQiAuvOPBhDXARIsAKzLQ8GUy64ob9O3OtU_8TP2PLrue5DI9Gz3vrQntEd-EcBpSFliynE7amoaAtYIEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds. Not sure on the chemistry of it, but it works a treat.

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Edited by Jonathan Haycock

For those of you that frequent Facebook, I’ve set up a group called “Pommy palms”, where many of the palms I’ve seen since emigrating to Australia have been documented. If you wish to be a member, copy and paste “Pommy palms” into Facebook to view the page and click “Join group”.

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On parajubaea it's very easy to see

PXL_20230323_193004176.thumb.jpg.31c1dd7d4696d116a891dc187b8ef4c7.jpg

 

Male removed 

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Female left, male right

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Few female flower comparing to male

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4 hours ago, psy460 said:

On parajubaea it's very easy to see

So I guess the "thorny" looking ones are male flowers? I didn't know they had both.

Winter low: 16F (December 2022), Summer/spring high: ~85F (March 2023). Very humid climate.

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On 3/24/2023 at 1:24 AM, Enar said:

So I guess the "thorny" looking ones are male flowers? I didn't know they had both.

Yes i put a picture of both flower, left one is the female flower 

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  • 1 month later...
On 3/23/2023 at 8:24 PM, Enar said:

So I guess the "thorny" looking ones are male flowers? I didn't know they had both.

Yes, the same on Butia and Syagrus as shown in the below pics.  The female flower is the more rounder part.

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The part on the right has been emasculated with all the male flowers removed as well as the approximate end third removed as it's typically all male flowers

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  • 2 months later...
  • 5 months later...

Any updates on your new hybrid babies, Jonathan? How are they coming along?

Edited by Leelanau Palms
For Jonathan

Zone 6b maritime climate

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8 hours ago, Leelanau Palms said:

Any updates on your new hybrid babies, Jonathan? How are they coming along?

These are the latest photos of the 4 largest from 22nd November 2023. They are tough cookies that’s for sure. Cope with drought, high heat and humidity, and full sun from the get go. Always look pristine. Susceptible to some scale if stressed, but pests are not an issue if they are happy. 

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For those of you that frequent Facebook, I’ve set up a group called “Pommy palms”, where many of the palms I’ve seen since emigrating to Australia have been documented. If you wish to be a member, copy and paste “Pommy palms” into Facebook to view the page and click “Join group”.

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20 minutes ago, Jonathan Haycock said:

These are the latest photos of the 4 largest from 22nd November 2023. They are tough cookies that’s for sure. Cope with drought, high heat and humidity, and full sun from the get go. Always look pristine. Susceptible to some scale if stressed, but pests are not an issue if they are happy. 

IMG_5632.jpeg

IMG_5633.jpeg

Gorgeous! So how old are they in these pictures? Are you using fertilizer?

Edited by Leelanau Palms

Zone 6b maritime climate

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17 minutes ago, Leelanau Palms said:

Gorgeous! So how old are they in these pictures? Are you using fertilizer?

First seed popped July 2021, so around 2.5 years old now. Only fertiliser is what came with the commercial compost. I do dose with Seasol when I think about it. 

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For those of you that frequent Facebook, I’ve set up a group called “Pommy palms”, where many of the palms I’ve seen since emigrating to Australia have been documented. If you wish to be a member, copy and paste “Pommy palms” into Facebook to view the page and click “Join group”.

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  • 1 month later...
On 8/5/2021 at 6:05 PM, Jonathan Haycock said:

I estimated well over 1000 fruits from the 2 infructescence. However only around 150 contained viable seeds. The remaining were just solid stones. 

Unfortunately the fruit was sour and stringy.

Viable seed

I have a question! Does your Butia normally have tasty fruit, but the hybrid fruit is what was sour and string?

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20 hours ago, tarnado said:

I have a question! Does your Butia normally have tasty fruit, but the hybrid fruit is what was sour and string?

That particular Butia always had sour and stringy fruit. Not all Butia are created equal in that regard. Some are stringless and sweet, others stringy and sour with many variations in between. 

Although seed morphology can be influenced by the hybridisation process, I doubt fruit taste and texture would be. Fruit size of course could change. 

Edited by Jonathan Haycock

For those of you that frequent Facebook, I’ve set up a group called “Pommy palms”, where many of the palms I’ve seen since emigrating to Australia have been documented. If you wish to be a member, copy and paste “Pommy palms” into Facebook to view the page and click “Join group”.

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