Do I need a 48 x 48” hole for 24” box Queen?

[Breaktheory]

Hi all

We are looking to plant some 24” box queen palms...our tree guy says he only needs to dig a hole 6-8” wider than the box but I’ve heard it’s supposed to be 48x48” 

Can anyone tell me if a full 48” wide hole is necessary for a queen?

 

[awkonradi]

Welcome to PalmTalk.  Unless your neighborhood has terrible soil, then I think 6-8" bigger, not 24" bigger, probably is sufficient.  Where are you located?  Do other queens thrive in your neighborhood, or do many look weak?

Edited July 23, 2021 by awkonradi

[96720]

I am not one for digging a big hole my “soil” is more rock than dirt I dig with a pick but when I first got started I don’t remember what I was going to plant but I looked online and found an article about planting trees by Ellen White it was about digging holes I think 4x4x4 I thought it was pretty crazy but I wanted this palm to do good so after a few days of digging and filling the hole with water I got the hole dug I did some of the stuff she said to do like putting a pot in the bottom of the hole which sounds crazy but I wanted the palm to have a good home finally got it planted didn’t use all the amendments she said to use and the palm still died I took it out and replaced it with a royal and it is a monster grows like crazy and if I had the time and energy to plant like that all of my palms would be planted that way

Edited July 23, 2021 by 96720
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[GottmitAlex]

Preparation is key. I know nothing about your soil type.  However there is a saying which is 100% correct:

"For every $5 palm, dig a $10 hole. "

 

[Jim in Los Altos]

48” is excessive. 6 to 8” wider than the 24” rootball is sufficient even if your soil isn’t great. You’re likely going to need to feed those Queen palms regularly anyway as well as keep them well watered. It’s better that they expand their roots into your native soil. 

[Breaktheory]

Thanks everyone....that’s a massive trunk!

I’m in Los Angeles and my neighborhood has a ton of thriving Queens so I believe they should do well.

These are going directly into my lawn where the soil is a little rocky and acidic.

I’m not at all experienced in planting but I’ve always read to dig a hole double the width of the container.

The gardener said he wants to preserve the lawn by digging a 30-32” hole so I’m posting this to see if he’s just being lazy...he also told me he doesn’t need a lot of soil amendment so I want to know if he’s also being cheap...:

Thanks all!

[Breaktheory]

23 hours ago, awkonradi said:

Welcome to PalmTalk.  Unless your neighborhood has terrible soil, then I think 6-8" bigger, not 24" bigger, probably is sufficient.  Where are you located?  Do other queens thrive in your neighborhood, or do many look weak?

My neighborhood has a lot of of Queens and Mexican Fans and the soil is decent but slightly rocky.

Most of the Queens seem to do very well but maybe 25% of the palms in the area have very thin trunks - could this be a genetic issue or bad planting?

[Jim in Los Altos]

On 7/24/2021 at 9:30 AM, Breaktheory said:

My neighborhood has a lot of of Queens and Mexican Fans and the soil is decent but slightly rocky.

Most of the Queens seem to do very well but maybe 25% of the palms in the area have very thin trunks - could this be a genetic issue or bad planting?

Trunk width on Queens is mostly genetic. The best way to determine if a Queen palm has grown vigorously is the distance between trunk rings. A well grown Queen palm will have rings spaced at 8 to 12.” Underwatwred and fed and those rings will be much closer together. 

Here’s one of my front Yard Queen palms. 

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Jim in Los Altos

[Jim in Los Altos]

[Xerarch]

Just FYI, nobody that you hire to garden or plant your trees is going to want to dig a hole that big to plant it.  It's just not the amount of work they have in mind at whatever price they are charging.  So lazy or not lazy, nobody wants to do that, the only options for going that far above and beyond the box size is to do it yourself or be prepared to pay a premium to have it done.  The general idea out there now in all the education material is to dig a basin twice as large as the pot you're putting in.  That is a great idea in the books but in practice I meet few people that feel they are able to put that kind of effort forth, especially if they have a lot of trees to plant.

[Breaktheory]

16 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Just FYI, nobody that you hire to garden or plant your trees is going to want to dig a hole that big to plant it.  It's just not the amount of work they have in mind at whatever price they are charging.  So lazy or not lazy, nobody wants to do that, the only options for going that far above and beyond the box size is to do it yourself or be prepared to pay a premium to have it done.  The general idea out there now in all the education material is to dig a basin twice as large as the pot you're putting in.  That is a great idea in the books but in practice I meet few people that feel they are able to put that kind of effort forth, especially if they have a lot of trees to plant.

Thanks - how large would you say is necessary to fit a 25g?

[sonoranfans]

On 7/26/2021 at 6:17 AM, Xerarch said:

Just FYI, nobody that you hire to garden or plant your trees is going to want to dig a hole that big to plant it.  It's just not the amount of work they have in mind at whatever price they are charging.  So lazy or not lazy, nobody wants to do that, the only options for going that far above and beyond the box size is to do it yourself or be prepared to pay a premium to have it done.  The general idea out there now in all the education material is to dig a basin twice as large as the pot you're putting in.  That is a great idea in the books but in practice I meet few people that feel they are able to put that kind of effort forth, especially if they have a lot of trees to plant.

I always at least double the rootball size in my sandy soil but mostly its with 15 gallon and under palms.  With sandy soil, a small hole would dry out your roots and kill them back a bit.  In clay soil you want a transition zone(mix of organic, sand and clay so the roots arent constrained by ""clay pot" sudden change in soil around your palm root zone.  If you cannot dig a hole, some palms are better than others at having their roots constrained.   IF the soil either doesn't get wet at depth or cant hold onto moisture past the planted root zone, that root zone will be truncated by lack of water.  It the soil doesnt breathe, roots can rot and thus be truncated similarly.  Big roots mean big palm in most cases.  Here is a hole about 5' wide that I dug for my copernicia fallaensis, about 3x the volume of the rootball as I ammended under it with sand in the clay at depth to ensure good drainage.  At the bottom of the 5' wide hole was 18" deep of ammended soil, just sad perlite and clay, no organics under the rootball so it didnt sink.  Most of my palms didnt have such a big rootball, starting small ones(under 25 gallon is easy.  My (2) royals as planted were also large rootballs but I did not ammend a huge hole since they do handle the sandy soil well.  I just mulched them repeatedly to help keep the roots moist.  Every other palm I used at least a 2x bigger hole than the rootball, but no organics under the rootball.  The fallaensis has a clean trunk almost 30" thick today and it is over 20' tall today,.  Its been 10 years come september.