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7A Mule progress over years


Allen

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Progress of the 7A mule.   Pretty happy with how it is doing so far.  In winter it took some frond spotty damage but outgrew it by now.  It went thru 9F in protection.  

2017

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2019

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2020

IMG_1946.thumb.JPG.28139662b7261795ed6dfcccfad491bb.JPG

2021

mule-2021.thumb.jpg.cc1efbab154c438944a201a9221835b7.jpg

2021 Getting fat trunk

mule-2021-2.thumb.jpg.011f440e33e54f7e8c5667098f7eafd2.jpg

Protection Method 2020

pic8.jpg

Edited by Allen
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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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@Allen you already have something pretty special going on but keep that thing alive a few more years and you'll be talkin Tennessee plant folklore type situation :D

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33 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

@Allen you already have something pretty special going on but keep that thing alive a few more years and you'll be talkin Tennessee plant folklore type situation :D

Well the Waggie palm in the pot in the next to the last photo is the backup.  B)

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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@Allen About the third time I’ve had to tip my hat to you! That makes me realize I haven’t scratched the surface yet. #palmlord

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3 hours ago, Keys6505 said:

Nice work!  Do you wrap/unwrap based on weather or keep it bundled up all winter?

It had to be covered about 4 times last winter for a total of around 7-10 days, 2-3 days at a time.  Lights stay on it I just unzip this cover.  As it grows the trunk will get wrapped up and the cover will move up till it's too big to cover or it dies.  

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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Gotta ask, where did you get the palm jacket? It looks like a modeling clay water tower :) Was it designed for plants or is it repurposed? I'm in zone 6 and have a takil in the ground,plan on heating cables or Christmas lights and that jacket looks like what I need to complete it. To be fair it's only a 5 gallon I got from Phil at jungle music but hopefully in a couple years I could use one that size

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6 hours ago, N8ALLRIGHT said:

Gotta ask, where did you get the palm jacket? It looks like a modeling clay water tower :) Was it designed for plants or is it repurposed? I'm in zone 6 and have a takil in the ground,plan on heating cables or Christmas lights and that jacket looks like what I need to complete it. To be fair it's only a 5 gallon I got from Phil at jungle music but hopefully in a couple years I could use one that size

It's a patio heater cover.  Look on Amazon.  but for long term in zone 6 I'd recommend the box method for you.  The covers can hold moisture if you're not careful.

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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  • 2 months later...

Newest update photo.  It has grown about 2' of trunk this summer and is around 12' tall OA.  

mule-oct2021.jpg

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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  • 1 month later...

12' mule - Winter wrapping this year, mini lights (400), thermocube, planket frost cloth, plastic fencing to secure fronds, 2 poles with a pvc top to support frost cloth on top (10' round planket)

 

mule4.jpg

mule6.jpg

mule winter1.jpg

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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27 minutes ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Assuming you unwrap it as weather permits?

Leaving it wrapped till March

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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@Allen looks like you've got it covered for a while. Do you guys already expect severe lows up there? 

We have barely hit 32 so far. Mine is staying out this year unless we go below 18. 

Also, You might want to look at the DeWitt white 2.5oz frost cloth. It is a bit better at protecting from what I've seen, and it does allow some light in during long durations of being covered. 

I used this for the first winter the Chamaerops and Sabal were in the ground, then used it again last year to cover a queen palm in the ground -which it DID protect against a 15F night. (along with the minis). 

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2 hours ago, Dartolution said:

@Allen looks like you've got it covered for a while. Do you guys already expect severe lows up there? 

We have barely hit 32 so far. Mine is staying out this year unless we go below 18. 

Also, You might want to look at the DeWitt white 2.5oz frost cloth. It is a bit better at protecting from what I've seen, and it does allow some light in during long durations of being covered. 

I used this for the first winter the Chamaerops and Sabal were in the ground, then used it again last year to cover a queen palm in the ground -which it DID protect against a 15F night. (along with the minis). 

Low 20's tonight and a few nights this week. 21-23F tonight.  Last year I had some damage under 25F so I'm being more proactive this year.  I don't know how a mule does with no light for 3 months but Trachy handle it like it never happened.  We'll see on the mule I guess.  I am traveling some and can't cover/uncover it this time around.  

I have multiple rolls of Dewitt 1.5 oz and Planket rolls.  The Planket is more attractive and seems like a fine material.   They are both the same except for the color.  I haven't tried the 2.5oz.  the 1.5 seem fine for my purposes.  

Edited by Allen
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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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If this thing dies at any point, are you willing to try it again? You have achieved AMAZING growth!

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 2 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 1 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa

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12 minutes ago, JLM said:

If this thing dies at any point, are you willing to try it again? You have achieved AMAZING growth!

yea it's not gonna make it long term.  I only wanted to mule for a pot at first but it quickly outgrew the pots I had so it was either plant it or toss it on the street.  I have a small trunked Waggy that's going there at the point it dies.   I think it can make it this year and maybe thru next winter if I cut the fronds in half to be able to wrap it.  I'm not building a structure for it.   I expect if it makes it to next year it will be 15-18' tall next winter.  It's 2 zones out for me and is not tough enough for long term.  It's a 9a palm or 8b if you're lucky palm.  

Edited by Allen

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/23/2021 at 5:22 AM, Allen said:

yea it's not gonna make it long term.  I only wanted to mule for a pot at first but it quickly outgrew the pots I had so it was either plant it or toss it on the street.  I have a small trunked Waggy that's going there at the point it dies.   I think it can make it this year and maybe thru next winter if I cut the fronds in half to be able to wrap it.  I'm not building a structure for it.   I expect if it makes it to next year it will be 15-18' tall next winter.  It's 2 zones out for me and is not tough enough for long term.  It's a 9a palm or 8b if you're lucky palm.  

hi Allen I am in 6A and have been deciding between a 30 gallon Mule and 30 gallon Pindo. I don't like the look of the Pindos so much but they are more proven in my area for over wintering and some have thrived for decades. Green Dragan on YouTube is near me, and has had his for I think two decades or more now and he's in 5b  I was leaning towards the Mules as I feel winter protection is winter protection, and as long as I can keep a palm warm during the winter there's no reason not to plant it.  You're response though gave me pause. Why do you feel your Mule will not make it long term in your zone? Can you explain. It might help me make my decision between the Butia and the Mule. 

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7 hours ago, vistaprime said:

hi Allen I am in 6A and have been deciding between a 30 gallon Mule and 30 gallon Pindo. I don't like the look of the Pindos so much but they are more proven in my area for over wintering and some have thrived for decades. Green Dragan on YouTube is near me, and has had his for I think two decades or more now and he's in 5b  I was leaning towards the Mules as I feel winter protection is winter protection, and as long as I can keep a palm warm during the winter there's no reason not to plant it.  You're response though gave me pause. Why do you feel your Mule will not make it long term in your zone? Can you explain. It might help me make my decision between the Butia and the Mule. 

Fronds get too big for me to be able to protect.  It's a baby and 12' tall already when wrapped.  You will need a box every year in your zone, so go practice building a 10, and 20 foot box.  

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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1 hour ago, Allen said:

Fronds get too big for me to be able to protect.  It's a baby and 12' tall already when wrapped.  You will need a box every year in your zone, so go practice building a 10, and 20 foot box.  

Do you feel it's same the with the long fronds on the Pindo, as some up here have been winter protecting there's a couple decades now. They built enclosures similar to Green Dragan, with his Pindo.

Edited by vistaprime
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2 hours ago, vistaprime said:

Do you feel it's same the with the long fronds on the Pindo, as some up here have been winter protecting there's a couple decades now. They built enclosures similar to Green Dragan, with his Pindo.

My Pindo is over 12' in cirumference, they get huge and those fronds are very rigid and difficult to move.  The mules have smaller trunks and floppier fronds, I would think it would be easier to protect.  Plus mules are supposed to grow faster so if you do have to cut, or lose a lot of fronds over winter I think these will recover and look better sooner.

Not to slight Green Dragan, but he has to overprune his pindos for protecting, they never look full even by the end of summer.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Chester B said:

My Pindo is over 12' in cirumference, they get huge and those fronds are very rigid and difficult to move.  The mules have smaller trunks and floppier fronds, I would think it would be easier to protect.  Plus mules are supposed to grow faster so if you do have to cut, or lose a lot of fronds over winter I think these will recover and look better sooner.

Not to slight Green Dragan, but he has to overprune his pindos for protecting, they never look full even by the end of summer.

 

 

When you you put it that way, I guess the Mule if pruned would bounce back because of their growth rate. Green Dragan Pindo, though, still looks pretty nice. And so are some of the others from Canada.

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On 12/21/2021 at 3:23 PM, Allen said:

Fronds get too big for me to be able to protect.  It's a baby and 12' tall already when wrapped.  You will need a box every year in your zone, so go practice building a 10, and 20 foot box.  

I think that growth is incredible! How often do you water or fertilize in the summer? I am in zone 8b and the mule palm grows slower.

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4 hours ago, Peachs said:

I think that growth is incredible! How often do you water or fertilize in the summer? I am in zone 8b and the mule palm grows slower.

2-3 times with palmgain and it gets lots of water there as it's by a downspout.  

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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  • 2 months later...

Unwrapped the mule palm today.  Here is the video.  One wrap of frost cloth and mini lights.  Dead fronds in video were already looking bad last year but I left them on for extra insulation.  2 months and it should look super awesome

 

Edited by Allen
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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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@Allen this is awesome. I have a lot of family in Newport and I think they are a zone colder but a mule palm that size in Tennessee would make you believe you’re in Florida. 

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Fantastic, I planted one at my folks house down the road last year. Much smaller obviously but went through the winter un protected and looks great so far. 
 

 

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Looking good there Allen . 

I might just  say that you could wrap the lights a little more tightly at the bottom going as far to the ground as possible since heat rises . I'd  hate for that extreme lower part of the trunk to get exposed to any really cold air so maybe wrap a couple of times with no separation between wraps at the very bottom and then go up about an inch and a half with upward spiral rows . I'd throw a clump of blankets at the bottom of the trunk too . I use mulch to keep the cold off of my lower  Washy trunk ,  but you don't want to mess up that white rock . Maybe work more lights around the upper part of the fronds too .

My recommendations would be for a much worse winter than this one just to be on the safe side . 

Will

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5 minutes ago, Will Simpson said:

Looking good there Allen . 

I might just  say that you could wrap the lights a little more tightly at the bottom going as far to the ground as possible since heat rises . I'd  hate for that extreme lower part of the trunk to get exposed to any really cold air so maybe wrap a couple of times with no separation between wraps at the very bottom and then go up about an inch and a half with upward spiral rows . I'd throw a clump of blankets at the bottom of the trunk too . I use mulch to keep the cold off of my lower  Washy trunk ,  but you don't want to mess up that white rock . Maybe work more lights around the upper part of the fronds too .

My recommendations would be for a much worse winter than this one just to be on the safe side . 

Will

Yea I hear ya.  I had a graphing 48 hour viewable temp sensor in there showed really warm temps around the crown (40) so I think it was pretty good.  Really one like this 2 zones out needs a box method but I'm not doing that here.  I don't think I can keep it alive more than maybe one more year.  We'll see.  Thanks for the input

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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The wrapping method is a lot easier and I think just as good with the exception of some burnt fronds out fronds sometimes  , and I don't know how I could protect my Washy with a box over it as big as it has gotten . Imagine a box over my Washy .

Will

51791045064_cb38c3eef5_b.jpg

 

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3rd growing season in ground.  I would say next frond will be 14' as current fronds were cut off short to put in winter wrap.  Expect a 15-18' palm by year end.  Here is a current pic to document the look at the start of this year after trimming it up.  I think we're done with temps that can hurt it.  Trimmed all the fibers off the trunk and cleaned up cuts.

mule.thumb.jpg.a174195133fec4b6a51339b16d292e69.jpg

Edited by Allen
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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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That mule is gorgeous.  Hopefully is has more years ahead of it.  Wish I could get one to grow.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Allen - Magnificent, inspiring effort. If you decide the size is too large for another winter, I would be happy to dig it up and take it off your hands. A tree like that deserves to survive! We have a place in Gautier, MS (9A), right on the Gulf, where it should be very happy, indeed. Regardless, thank you for sharing your experiences.

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4 minutes ago, jpg said:

Hi Allen - Magnificent, inspiring effort. If you decide the size is too large for another winter, I would be happy to dig it up and take it off your hands. A tree like that deserves to survive! We have a place in Gautier, MS (9A), right on the Gulf, where it should be very happy, indeed. Regardless, thank you for sharing your experiences.

Yea I will think about that offer.  I think it can go another winter if I cut the fronds short.   But it is on borrowed time.  I wonder if a pickup could haul it or it would need a trailer?  15+ feet with rootball I'd guess.  

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YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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How big is the trunk at the base?  I planted a ~3gal mule 14" from the house, I know it's a temporary resident here but I'm pondering moving it.

20220430_090027.jpg

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15" or so growing rapidly.  I cut off some of the fibers.  So this about 4-5 years out for you.

trunk.jpg

Edited by Allen

YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@tntropics - 60+ In-ground 7A palms - (Sabal) minor(7 large + 27 seedling size, 3 dwarf),  brazoria(1) , birmingham(4), etonia (1) louisiana(5), palmetto (1), riverside (1),  (Trachycarpus) fortunei(7), wagnerianus(1),  Rhapidophyllum hystrix(7),  15' Mule-Butia x Syagrus(1),  Blue Butia capitata(1) +Tons of tropical plants.  Recent Yearly Lows -1F, 12F, 11F, 18F, 16F, 3F, 3F, 6F, 3F, 1F, 16F, 17F, 6F, 8F

 

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