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Hyde

Chamaerops Humilis - Recovery (Spear Pull / Head Cut / New Growth Becoming Brown)

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Hyde

Hello my dear palm lovers, Greetings from Germany.:D

I intend to make this thread on the recovery log and suggestion thread for my palm.

Since last year I started my journey into gardening and soon discovered my love for the wonderful world of palms.
I started with 2 Palms last year, a Phoenix canaries and a Chamaerops Humilis. Meanwhile I am the proud owner of over a dozen palms, some banana trees and have started attempting to germinate various palm seeds, which will be another topic. ^_^

Last year, at that time of my first ownership into palms, I had not much knowledge about Palms as I do now. They were labeled winter hard (yea right) and so I only pulled them under a open roofed area of my terrace to protect them from the snow. Last year was particularly cold here, that extended until March this year with brief periods of sun. I was too busy with work and the snow and some rain managed to blow on to them enough to pile up and had caused damage. I was late to detect the damage and my phoenix canaries palm died from root/heart rot and I was however able to recover somewhat my Chamaerops Humilis fan palm.

The Chamaerops Humilis slowly had turned brown and the new growth was also turning brown, although it was left under the sun and such, so I began by taking off the brown fronds and after waiting a bit I did find multiple spear pulls and I just poured Hydrogen Peroxide for over a few weeks and dried it, unfortunately it did not show signs of growth and as such as a last resort, I had to cut the top portion of the trunk off till I found healthy tissue. And the same day after cutting I saw growth, all within mid day to night. Over 3 days it was a few CM tall and now after a month it has little fronds coming up with of course some mechanical damage from cutting and all else.

I want this palm to survive and recover, its my first palm. However the problem is the fronds that came out are turning brown and seems to rot? See the pictures.

I have given it some sun and tucked it away from rain and may just bring it more inside if its suggested. But looking at the pictures, could someone tell me what they think and what could be causing this? Is this normal and if not what can I do to help the palm recover? Should I bring it more in? Its Particularly wet every other week here, this year has been a roller coaster in terms of weather here. Copper Fungicide use is not possible here, I prefer to do things very much organic.

Hopefully I am posting in the right forum section, if not kindly feel free to move it. 
Thanks to this place, I was encouraged  to learn more about Palms and continue my newly found hobby. :greenthumb:

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Keys6505

Did you treat it with anything after you cut it?  My guess would be that all the rot wasn't removed.

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Fusca

Hi @Hyde, welcome to PalmTalk!  I have been growing Chamaerops in different parts of Texas for over 15 years without any winter damage but this past February we saw record cold of -13C and nearly 100 consecutive hours below freezing.  I truck-cut mine as you did.  Yours looks perfectly fine.  It will likely push some deformed fronds before resuming normal fronds.

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Hyde
10 minutes ago, Keys6505 said:

Did you treat it with anything after you cut it?  My guess would be that all the rot wasn't removed.

I have sprayed it every other day with Hydrogen Peroxide. but thats about it. What can I treat it with? What can be done? Should I put some xmas lights around it and keep it warm? temps right now are around 15 - 28C day to day depending if its raining or not.

 wonder if its transplant shock as I did repot it a few months ago to a bigger pot before I cut it. How can I cure the remaining rot? totally dry it out, pull it in a total shade away from all rain?

3 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Hi @Hyde, welcome to PalmTalk!  I have been growing Chamaerops in different parts of Texas for over 15 years without any winter damage but this past February we saw record cold of -13C and nearly 100 consecutive hours below freezing.  I truck-cut mine as you did.  Yours looks perfectly fine.  It will likely push some deformed fronds before resuming normal fronds.

Hi Fusca! Wow its very nice to hear you have been growing palms for so long, its posts like this that encouraged me to get into palms. :) So in your experienced opinion whats should I do? Just worried about the brown new fronds and all. :(

PS: Yes I was reading about the recent crazy cold weathers around Texas and parts. Saw lots of pictures.. Jeez our poor palms.

Edited by Hyde

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Fusca
20 minutes ago, Hyde said:

I have sprayed it every other day with Hydrogen Peroxide. but thats about it. What can I treat it with? What can be done? Should I put some xmas lights around it and keep it warm? temps right now are around 15 - 28C day to day depending if its raining or not.

 wonder if its transplant shock as I did repot it a few months ago to a bigger pot before I cut it. How can I cure the remaining rot? totally dry it out, pull it in a total shade away from all rain?

Hi Fusca! Wow its very nice to hear you have been growing palms for so long, its posts like this that encouraged me to get into palms. :) So in your experienced opinion whats should I do? Just worried about the brown new fronds and all. :(

PS: Yes I was reading about the recent crazy cold weathers around Texas and parts. Saw lots of pictures.. Jeez our poor palms.

Best thing you can do is keep in full sun and keep the new growth dry.  The palm will still need watering but what I did was invert a nursery container to cover it when there was rain in the forecast.  Since yours is in a container just move it to a covered area during rain events.  I cut mine in early May and I just took these pics of the main stem.  Suckers came back without any cutting.  Most fronds look normal but there are a couple of tiny deformed fronds in the second pic.

 

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Fusca

I believe that you are seeing some deterioration due to the new growth exposed to cool rain.  I treated mine with copper fungicide after making the cut but didn't treat again after that.  I don't think you need to keep applying the hydrogen peroxide but keeping it dry is important to keep it from additional rot.  Once mine started pushing normal fronds I stopped covering it and just let it go on its own.

Jon

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Hyde

Hi Jon, Wow, those look to have come back very nicely! Well recovered did you cut it this may or last year? Either way very juicy green fronds. I see, so you covered it during rain, but if the ground gets wet, that's alright? I have customized the pot it is in to be very well draining (fingers crossed). :lol:

This morning I just covered it with a plastic bag, I have some containers, I can use to cover it later in the day. Then should I totally move it under the roof of my terrace or just leave it half shaded under a tree, the plus point keeping it under the tree is that I can carry it to the sun faster (as it weights a few hundred lbs and carrying it around in the rain is no fun). Really like how much sun you got there, this year has been a problematic one here in central Europe, too many storms and rain.

Do you think I should cut off the rotted/brown fronds off so they don't spread any issue? I will later on today just spray with some Hydrogen Peroxide and then cover it.

 

Thanks :)

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Merlyn

I have several trunking Chamaeops here in central Floriduh, and two of them had a similar-looking fungal infection.  I poured hydrogen peroxide down the center of the crown (not a spray, but a pour) and then soil drenched with Banrot fungicide.  Both have since grown out normally.  In my case I don't know which one of the two treatments was the most useful.  The advantage I had is that my palms had a lot of good fronds already, so they could power new growth faster.  I did not notice any spread of the browned tissue.  I.e. what was brown in the below photo stayed brown, and did not seem to spread to green tissue.  But I have 240 palms in the ground and 145 in pots, so I wasn't paying that close attention to them.  Below is the stunted/browned/fungusy before photo:

228778118_P1070324Chamaeropsfungus.thumb.JPG.5c01cc86b81cb551b7f08b6888328479.JPG

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Hyde

Hi Merlyn!

What a nice collection of Palms I see there, :w00t: Yes Florida seems like the place to grow them alright, I have seen a lot of people on Youtube from there growing palms! Un luckly for me, this year is rather cloudy and not so sunny as last year here in Germany.  Its 20C outside today..

I actually have poured hydrogen peroxide down the crown as well initially, and have still a few liters of it sitting here, I was just spraying it every few days after cutting, just a mist to kill any bacteria off.

Now what I have done today is poured some hydrogen peroxide on it and around the soil, then pushed it a bit under cover under the little tree so when the sun is back up, and it doesn't get too wet and of course I can bring it out for the sun, and its also now covered with this poly bag which has a hole in it for air flow. Now, I am not sure but should I cut the brown fronds off or something or just leave it there? I think the browned tissue is spreading. So unsure what I can do at this stage. Picture attached.

 

The fungicides here are controlled for environmental and human safety. Can someone perhaps have a look at the German Amazon (https://www.amazon.de/) -there is a language selector for English, then perhaps you could let me know which fungicide I should buy and use? I dont want anything that would cause damage as its next to my window, it would be very helpful. :D

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Hyde

I am still looking for some suggestions for a proper fungicide I can buy from Amazon de. If anyone wants to chip in with suggestions. Would help my palm a lot. :lol:

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Hyde

Hi Everyone,

I believe what I have is a case of Pink Rot. And I was going through this study

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/321347766_First_record_and_Disease_Management_of_PinkRot_in_Cocos_Palm_Trees_in_Egypt

I decided to use Copper Oxychloride and Sulfur.

The study used 5g per tree, I believe what I will do is, add some 2g per 4-5L and apply it every 2 weeks. I will also use some Sulfur and sprinkle it around. Will report back here how it all goes. Fingers crossed.

 

 

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Merlyn

I checked out the options in your message, I thought it would be better to post it here for other people to comment:

Solabiol Universal Ornamental Vegetables Concentrate: main ingredient is benzisothiazolone.  I am not familiar with this one, a google search shows it is anti-microbial and anti-fungal.  I couldn't find it as an active ingredient in any fungicides in the US, but it is used as an antifungal/antimicrobial ingredient in dish liquid like "Seventh Generation."  Maybe others have some experience with this chemical?

Substral Naturen Organic Sulphur powder:  This looks like a generic sulphur powder, which is always a good choice for a surface antifungal.  It's not systemic, but it is commonly recommended and I use it here as a surface treatment.

Compo Ortiva Spezial Pilz-frei:  This is a systemic fungicide with main ingredient Azoxystrobin.  This seems like primarily a turfgrass treatment here in the US, for anthracnose, pythium blight and several other lawn blights.  I am not sure if this will help against palm fungi.  It might, it might not.

The four main fungicides I use are hydrogen peroxide; common sulphur powder; Banrot (a mix of Thiophanate-Methyl and Etradizole); Aliette (Aluminum tris also known as O-ethyl phosphonate). Other systemic alternatives that are commonly recommended are Cleary's 3336F (Thiophanate-Methyl) and Agri-Fos (similar to Aliette, using Mono- and di-potassium salts of Phosphorous Acid).

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Hyde
16 minutes ago, Merlyn said:

I checked out the options in your message, I thought it would be better to post it here for other people to comment:

Solabiol Universal Ornamental Vegetables Concentrate: main ingredient is benzisothiazolone.  I am not familiar with this one, a google search shows it is anti-microbial and anti-fungal.  I couldn't find it as an active ingredient in any fungicides in the US, but it is used as an antifungal/antimicrobial ingredient in dish liquid like "Seventh Generation."  Maybe others have some experience with this chemical?

Substral Naturen Organic Sulphur powder:  This looks like a generic sulphur powder, which is always a good choice for a surface antifungal.  It's not systemic, but it is commonly recommended and I use it here as a surface treatment.

Compo Ortiva Spezial Pilz-frei:  This is a systemic fungicide with main ingredient Azoxystrobin.  This seems like primarily a turfgrass treatment here in the US, for anthracnose, pythium blight and several other lawn blights.  I am not sure if this will help against palm fungi.  It might, it might not.

The four main fungicides I use are hydrogen peroxide; common sulphur powder; Banrot (a mix of Thiophanate-Methyl and Etradizole); Aliette (Aluminum tris also known as O-ethyl phosphonate). Other systemic alternatives that are commonly recommended are Cleary's 3336F (Thiophanate-Methyl) and Agri-Fos (similar to Aliette, using Mono- and di-potassium salts of Phosphorous Acid).

 

Thank you, I have not found Banrot, I will look at the chemical compounds but I did find Aliette WG. Listed the two below, which one would you personally prefer? How often do you apply to your suffering palms this product, any suggestions would be appreciated.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Bayer-Fungus-Free-special-Aliette-40/dp/B002CWCLFQ/

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Bayer-Aliette-Wg-Over-45/dp/B00L1F6D54/

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Merlyn
4 hours ago, Hyde said:

 

Thank you, I have not found Banrot, I will look at the chemical compounds but I did find Aliette WG. Listed the two below, which one would you personally prefer? How often do you apply to your suffering palms this product, any suggestions would be appreciated.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Bayer-Fungus-Free-special-Aliette-40/dp/B002CWCLFQ/

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Bayer-Aliette-Wg-Over-45/dp/B00L1F6D54/

It looks like both of those are 80% concentration powder of Fosetyl-Al, so they look equivalent to me.  Choosing between them it might just be cost per gram or delivery time. 

Banrot is just my preferred one because it has the two ingredients together.  You may be able to find Clearys 3336.  It's also available in other generics like Topsin 4.5FL, Thiomyl, Quali-Pro "Enclave", OHP 6672, Clearys Spectro 90 WDG, Bonide Infuse, and others.

Etradizole can be found in Truban, Terrazole and Banrot.

Another commonly recommended fungicide are any copper-based ones like Bonide Copper Fungicide with "Copper Octanoate" as the main ingredient.  Those are available in hundreds of different brands, I am sure you'd be able to find one on Amazon.de. 

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Hyde

I applied the Aliette few days ago, a satchel to about 3 L of water, I am applying the Copper Oxychlorid mixture today, but leaving out the sulfur without having tested the soil for the pH. (I do add coffee, bannana peal, egg shells as composite for my palms as well as horse manure (poop).

What is the opinion on sulfur here?

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Hyde

there were 5 spears and I broke 3 off today that were totally brown and mushy, wilting. i am wondering if I should cut off the browned spongy tissue and start over? and this time put some copper fungecide on top of the cut area?

 

 

 

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