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sabal domingensis

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ZPalms

I don't see many people talk about this sabal very often, anyone have experience with this sabal outside of florida? 

SabalDomingensisBokeeliaFl.jpg

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Swolte

I am also keeping an eye on this one! Looking forward to responses. 
:)

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Kailua_Krish

Leaves are not as frost tolerant as others. Fast large grower for me.

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ZPalms

I might give one of these a try, I've read the palmpedia and it says it may do well in zone 8 and I could give it a bit of protection if I need too. If I can get S. causiarum and S. domingensis and sprout them at the same time then it would be cool to watch them race each other

6 hours ago, Kailua_Krish said:

Leaves are not as frost tolerant as others. Fast large grower for me.

Do you own one and do you have pictures? :innocent:

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Steve the palmreader

Not as cold hardy as Causiarum

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ZPalms

Does anyone have any Causiarum, domingensis and riverside seeds that need a home and that I could buy together?

Edited by ZPalms
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ZPalms

If I cant get my hands on domingensis, I'll take Causiarums and riverside :blush2:

Edited by ZPalms
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teddytn
On 6/22/2021 at 10:40 AM, ZPalms said:

If I cant get my hands on domingensis, I'll take Causiarums and riverside :blush2:

Rarepalmseeds.com is the spot to source seeds for all kinds of palms, yucca, and agaves.

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ZPalms
1 hour ago, teddytn said:

Rarepalmseeds.com is the spot to source seeds for all kinds of palms, yucca, and agaves.

Thank you, Sadly they are out of stock of all seeds, I'm hoping somebody is selling all 3 in a bundle cause I don't have much money

Edited by ZPalms
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Reyes Vargas
On 6/22/2021 at 10:40 AM, ZPalms said:

Causiarums and riverside

You can find both of these on eBay.

Edited by Reyes Vargas
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sonoranfans

This species is in the freeze damage section, there is alot of input already.  Freeze damage section is a much more reliable place to find cold tolerance information.  As it turns out domingensis may be susceptible to frost when young but its been observed at 20-21F or so with no leaf damage when older.  Be warned there was alots of confusion and seed mix-ups between domingensis and causiarum in the past.  Identification by orders of branching on the inflorescence is definitive, sometimes the existence of ligules can confirm causiarum but some causiarum dont have sizeable ligules.   Domnigensis gets even taller and may holds more leaves (retained longer below the horizontal) in some climates,

 

 

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ZPalms
3 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

This species is in the freeze damage section, there is alot of input already.  Freeze damage section is a much more reliable place to find cold tolerance information.  As it turns out domingensis may be susceptible to frost when young but its been observed at 20-21F or so with no leaf damage when older.  Be warned there was alots of confusion and seed mix-ups between domingensis and causiarum in the past.  Identification by orders of branching on the inflorescence is definitive, sometimes the existence of ligules can confirm causiarum but some causiarum dont have sizeable ligules.   Domnigensis gets even taller and may holds more leaves (retained longer below the horizontal) in some climates,

 

 

I'm still willing to try domingensis cause I can provide it protection when it's young and I don't mind a bit of frost damage as long as it doesn't die and it will grow out those leaves if It does get any damage, I do appreciate this cause I can kind of determine the range of how low some can handle or not!

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Palmlover_78
On 6/21/2021 at 2:02 PM, ZPalms said:

Does anyone have any Causiarum, domingensis and riverside seeds that need a home and that I could buy together?

Hey, if you want to try different Palms. https://www.rarepalmseeds.com/ LOVE this site :D

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VA Jeff

Start with the semi hardy palms first before blowing your money on stuff that will die before you get the hang of it.  That was my mistake years ago.  If you are within 3 hours of New Bern, go visit Gary's nursery for cold hardy cultivars of sabals, trachy, butia, and some others.  He grows his own seed from trees he planted decades ago.  He usually doesn't have the super exotic stuff, but get a few years of palm experience in before you test palms a full zone outside your hardiness zone.

That being said, I have a trunked mule,  a juvenile jubaea, and a 6.5 foot tall parajubaea growing in my yard inground in Virginia.  I killed a lot of things during the learning curve of how to protect them.  I've had these since they were small.  The genera I tried many times and gave up on are: dypsis, strenga, allagoptera, livistona, ravenea, laccospadox, syagrus , and probably a dozen more.  The rest of my variety grows in pots.

 

In the past, I also grew chamadorea, trithrinx, chamaerops and some others for a few years.  I still have some serenoa, trachycarpus, and needls in ground.  I bought a sabal as a riverside (questionable) almost 20 years ago.  It still grows at my old house about 15 or more feet tall

Edited by VA Jeff
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sonoranfans
On 6/26/2021 at 10:17 AM, ZPalms said:

I'm still willing to try domingensis cause I can provide it protection when it's young and I don't mind a bit of frost damage as long as it doesn't die and it will grow out those leaves if It does get any damage, I do appreciate this cause I can kind of determine the range of how low some can handle or not!

I don't think domingensis has a real chance in 8a, its about 5F more tender than causiarum(which is about 14-15F) from what I have read in the past.  I think domingensis is at best a warm 8b palm.  Its not just temperature but length of cold.  Some great palms for NC might be Jubaea and Jubaea hybrids with butia and possibly causiarum.  There used to be a poster in here years ago from NC who had some very nice looking jubaeas and jubaea hybrids.  They were 4-6'tall then, by now they must be amazing.  This is not a newly discovered species, there is decades of experience by horticulturalists who rate it zone 9 and some parts of zone 8(ie warm short duration cold ones like in the desert).  https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Sabal_domingensis  Because you are not in a short duration cold climate, you would be wise to expect a zone 9a survival limit.  Were you in interior california desert 8b, its certainly possible this palm would  make it.  Dont get too tied to temperatures, the amount of time at those lower temps is at least as important.  Zone ratings don't account for duration of cold, just minimums.

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ZPalms
On 6/29/2021 at 10:09 AM, sonoranfans said:

I don't think domingensis has a real chance in 8a, its about 5F more tender than causiarum(which is about 14-15F) from what I have read in the past.  I think domingensis is at best a warm 8b palm.  Its not just temperature but length of cold.  Some great palms for NC might be Jubaea and Jubaea hybrids with butia and possibly causiarum.  There used to be a poster in here years ago from NC who had some very nice looking jubaeas and jubaea hybrids.  They were 4-6'tall then, by now they must be amazing.  This is not a newly discovered species, there is decades of experience by horticulturalists who rate it zone 9 and some parts of zone 8(ie warm short duration cold ones like in the desert).  https://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Sabal_domingensis  Because you are not in a short duration cold climate, you would be wise to expect a zone 9a survival limit.  Were you in interior california desert 8b, its certainly possible this palm would  make it.  Dont get too tied to temperatures, the amount of time at those lower temps is at least as important.  Zone ratings don't account for duration of cold, just minimums.

What would be the quickest Jubaea or Jubaea hybrid or butia? I saw this one browsing around the green really strikes out to me do you know what kind this is?

file.jpg

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sonoranfans

jubaea hybrids are much faster than jubaeas.  I would try BxJ and JxB crosses as the most cold hardy.   FYI if you didnt know, the first palm in the cross is the mother so its genetics will likely be stronger.  butia mother crosses will be more recurved in the rachis, the jubaea mother will be more straight in the rachis like the one you posted.  I would try both, these are beautiful palms that can take down to 10F, and down to about 15F or possibly lower without damage.

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ZPalms
6 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

jubaea hybrids are much faster than jubaeas.  I would try BxJ and JxB crosses as the most cold hardy.   FYI if you didnt know, the first palm in the cross is the mother so its genetics will likely be stronger.  butia mother crosses will be more recurved in the rachis, the jubaea mother will be more straight in the rachis like the one you posted.  I would try both, these are beautiful palms that can take down to 10F, and down to about 15F or possibly lower without damage.

Awesome thanks! I was looking around at what might be best for me so I'll give these a try! do you know where I can buy seeds or seedlings? rarepalmseeds don't have any in stock. Is the one in the picture Jubaea x Butia?

Edited by ZPalms

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RJ
On 6/22/2021 at 11:40 AM, ZPalms said:

If I cant get my hands on domingensis, I'll take Causiarums and riverside :blush2:

I have Causiarums growing down here in Columbia. Just planted a small one at my parents house in the end of may , doing just fine so far obviously 

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ZPalms
4 hours ago, RJ said:

I have Causiarums growing down here in Columbia. Just planted a small one at my parents house in the end of may , doing just fine so far obviously 

I was just given 2 Causiarums by @Jubaea_James760 I'm very excited to plant them in the ground next spring but I'm also nervous for them to see how they do here with protection of course

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RJ
16 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I was just given 2 Causiarums by @Jubaea_James760 I'm very excited to plant them in the ground next spring but I'm also nervous for them to see how they do here with protection of course

Very cool. I’ve got some bigger 25g size as well. My new home should be done next spring and they’ll go in the ground then. I’m not sure where you are in NC but if your a warm 8a I don’t think they will have any problems. 
 

 

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teddytn
On 6/26/2021 at 8:32 AM, sonoranfans said:

This species is in the freeze damage section, there is alot of input already.  Freeze damage section is a much more reliable place to find cold tolerance information.  As it turns out domingensis may be susceptible to frost when young but its been observed at 20-21F or so with no leaf damage when older.  Be warned there was alots of confusion and seed mix-ups between domingensis and causiarum in the past.  Identification by orders of branching on the inflorescence is definitive, sometimes the existence of ligules can confirm causiarum but some causiarum dont have sizeable ligules.   Domnigensis gets even taller and may holds more leaves (retained longer below the horizontal) in some climates,

 

 

Wouldn’t consider that one cold hardy at all! 

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ZPalms
28 minutes ago, RJ said:

Very cool. I’ve got some bigger 25g size as well. My new home should be done next spring and they’ll go in the ground then. I’m not sure where you are in NC but if your a warm 8a I don’t think they will have any problems. 
 

 

I'm more southern north carolina about an hour away from myrtle beach

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RJ
On 8/14/2021 at 5:38 PM, RJ said:

I have Causiarums growing down here in Columbia. Just planted a small one at my parents house in the end of may , doing just fine so far obviously 

Here is the Causiarum that I planted at my folks this spring. Not much to look at but it’s moving right along. 

7DB6F4B1-C6ED-4F8C-87A2-0E43AE3CE040.jpeg

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mnorell

S. domingensis is, in my own experience in the Deep South, far less leaf-hardy than S. causiarum. I grew both in Natchez (chilly-winter 9a) and S. causiarium is a massive, fabulous, fast-growing palm for areas that will stay above about 13F, at that temp they tend to start taking leaf-damage, though the plant itself of course is hardier. S. domingensis, on the other hand, grew slowly for me, took heavy leaf-damage nearly every year (damaged below about 27F under open sky, with usually low 20s for a minimum most years). It never died but it was so slow that the bud has to this day, after 15 years in the ground, never gone aerial. There is documentation that once the bud goes aerial it can be killed by a good freeze in the mid-20s. So I would very much second that S. domingensis is probably not for you. You could try S. 'Riverside' which is a beautiful palm, I think (but not sure) that it has some good cold-hardiness. But in your zone (if truly 8a) is really limited for the bigger species, I think, to things like S. palmetto, S. mexicana, S. 'Birmingham' and the other real stalwarts. Even those may very well get killed during your next 0F freeze event. It's no fun to have to remove a big tree, so be careful in planting marginal species that survive for a decade or so and turn into large, hulking specimens. When that next big freeze hits, your wallet may get emptied!

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ZPalms
On 9/24/2021 at 7:51 PM, RJ said:

Here is the Causiarum that I planted at my folks this spring. Not much to look at but it’s moving right along. 

7DB6F4B1-C6ED-4F8C-87A2-0E43AE3CE040.jpeg

Oh wow! When did this one go in the ground or how long has it been in the ground and if it was in the ground before it gone pennate did it happen fast? It gives me coconut vibes I don't know why but that color reminds me of my coconut leaves! I can't wait to get mine in the ground :D

On 9/24/2021 at 8:17 PM, mnorell said:

S. domingensis is, in my own experience in the Deep South, far less leaf-hardy than S. causiarum. I grew both in Natchez (chilly-winter 9a) and S. causiarium is a massive, fabulous, fast-growing palm for areas that will stay above about 13F, at that temp they tend to start taking leaf-damage, though the plant itself of course is hardier. S. domingensis, on the other hand, grew slowly for me, took heavy leaf-damage nearly every year (damaged below about 27F under open sky, with usually low 20s for a minimum most years). It never died but it was so slow that the bud has to this day, after 15 years in the ground, never gone aerial. There is documentation that once the bud goes aerial it can be killed by a good freeze in the mid-20s. So I would very much second that S. domingensis is probably not for you. You could try S. 'Riverside' which is a beautiful palm, I think (but not sure) that it has some good cold-hardiness. But in your zone (if truly 8a) is really limited for the bigger species, I think, to things like S. palmetto, S. mexicana, S. 'Birmingham' and the other real stalwarts. Even those may very well get killed during your next 0F freeze event. It's no fun to have to remove a big tree, so be careful in planting marginal species that survive for a decade or so and turn into large, hulking specimens. When that next big freeze hits, your wallet may get emptied!

I've already let go of the idea of having S.domingensis :blush2: I do have two S. Causiarums now which I'm excited to get in the ground next spring and the temperature here never goes below 13F and if it does then it's rare but one day I'll get riverside but as of right now I'm pretty happy with sabal palmetto and the 2 Causiarums I've received and I wanna plant more Palmettos very soon! :D

Edited by ZPalms
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amh
3 hours ago, ZPalms said:

I've already let go of the idea of having S.domingensis :blush2: I do have two S. Causiarums now which I'm excited to get in the ground next spring and the temperature here never goes below 13F and if it does then it's rare but one day I'll get riverside but as of right now I'm pretty happy with sabal palmetto and the 2 Causiarums I've received and I wanna plant more Palmettos very soon! :D

Best of luck on the Sabal causiarums, give updates on how they handle the winter once they are in the ground.

I'm personally toying with whether or not to grow that species.

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ZPalms
2 hours ago, amh said:

Best of luck on the Sabal causiarums, give updates on how they handle the winter once they are in the ground.

I'm personally toying with whether or not to grow that species.

I'll be definitely be posting once spring comes around but their currently just vibing and happy in their little bags! B) I hope they survive here!

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RJ
15 hours ago, ZPalms said:

 

It definitely picked up speed when it went in the ground. I think I planted it in mid April . 
I don’t recall if it was pennate or not when put it in, if it was it just barely was. I’d say all but 3 of those leaves are new this summer. It’s bigger then all it’s siblings that are still in pots. 

Edited by RJ
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DallasPalms

All of the suspected Dominguensis (trunked) that I see in Dallas defoliated but survived Uri, down to 2F and around a week straight below freezing. I think I saw a small one that made it through but not 100% sure... If it did I'll get a photo next time I'm around that area.

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DallasPalms

Looks like they made it!  I thought I would pass by... Unless these grew from seed post Uri ( I did think they were taller) 

Two trees with young ones at the bases. The profile and seed shape/size match description for Dominguensis

Before Uri hit we had a few light freezes, light snow and down to maybe 28F. I dont remember any damage

20210927_175233.jpg

20210927_175238.jpg

20210927_175230.jpg

20210927_175236.jpg

Edited by DallasPalms
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ZPalms
11 minutes ago, DallasPalms said:

Looks like they made it!  I thought I would pass by... Unless these grew from seed post Uri ( I did think they were taller) 

Two trees with young ones at the bases. The profile and seed shape/size match description for Dominguensis

Before Uri hit we had a few light freezes, light snow and down to maybe 28F. I dont remember any damage

20210927_175233.jpg

20210927_175238.jpg

20210927_175230.jpg

20210927_175236.jpg

That wall must of been a reason for it's survival? I feel like if it was out in the open it would of died right? That's one beasty sabal though, that trunk is massive!

Edited by ZPalms

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DallasPalms

That is a small one story business. There is alot of concrete around @ city sidewalk in uptown, but it was extreme.  A few days straight mostly under 20 and the entire week frozen. 

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ZPalms

I got bored and decided to figure out where the first picture was taken and see how the sabal is doing. It's looks so beautiful, I wish they had a better cold tolerance so I could have one but anyway it looks like back in 2007 their must of been another one but it died and in 2016 they replaced it with coconuts!

Coconuts grow so fast, it took no time to replace that spot!

2007!

685086245_Screenshot(98).thumb.png.a134c6792555e3516023aefc31343b2e.png

2016!

277293205_Screenshot(105).thumb.png.70fc640c98e3f79504dc39fee5a1f208.png

 

2019!

68963583_Screenshot(102).thumb.png.b693b28bd2b4048745a6f3a902b8a3b6.png

2021!

671559854_Screenshot(108).thumb.png.33c1d635e047ef60d94525fb28b146ff.png

 

Edited by ZPalms

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ZPalms
4 minutes ago, DallasPalms said:

That is a small one story business. There is alot of concrete around @ city sidewalk in uptown, but it was extreme.  A few days straight mostly under 20 and the entire week frozen. 

Oh wow!!! I know palm seeds don't acquire traits from environmental stressors, but I feel like if this puts off seeds would it be worth it? This one sounds like a fighter or very tough?

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DallasPalms

I think they do adapt over time like most plants. So many out of every batch might lean one way or another depending on what is helpful and then the survivors continue...but with that said the others in town that I suspect are Dominguensis also pulled through, they were all large trunked.. there are 7 arranged in front of a building in Downtown, less concrete but still Downtown... one of them took quite a while longer to put out new fronds the others took maybe 2 or 3 months I cant remember exactly...

It all started with minerals and water from complex atoms engineering into fungi that use hormones and blow spores... then seeds. Life is intelligence 

Dominguensis come from near where Palmettos grow in Cuba I think. They happen to be very hardy also and so I think Dominguensis is closer to Palmetto than Causarium... some ppl say Causarium is more leaf hardy I'm sure it varies...

I dont know if there are any around i cant seem to find any "ligules" but we do have some huge Sabals around. 

Some small seedlings from a palmetto looking tree nearby also pulled through I was really surprised that they were leaf hardy that small at the temps we had

Edited by DallasPalms
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RJ
On 6/21/2021 at 10:06 AM, PalmatierMeg said:

Very large Sabal not as well known as S. causiarum. 

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/Sabal_domingensis

To add fuel to the already confusing chapter of this palm, many of the pictures depict the legules that are supposed to belong to S. causiarum :rolleyes:

 

http://www.palmpedia.net/wiki/File:2532510945_597fc4aaa3_o.jpg

 

Edited by RJ
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ZPalms

Are their palmetto/domingensis hybrids? I was just reading on if anyone has tried to cross palmetto/causiarum but they have different flowering times but hopefully somebody with extra time down the road tries to cross those. but are their any naturally occuring palmetto/domingensis?

Edited by ZPalms
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RJ
9 hours ago, ZPalms said:

Are their palmetto/domingensis hybrids? I was just reading on if anyone has tried to cross palmetto/causiarum but they have different flowering times but hopefully somebody with extra time down the road tries to cross those. but are their any naturally occuring palmetto/domingensis?

Yes it has been done. @buffy has a cross of a palmettoxcausiarum although I’m not sure which is the mother. There are some at the university of Florida in Grainsville iirc 

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