Jump to content
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT LOGGING IN ×
  • WELCOME GUEST

    It looks as if you are viewing PalmTalk as an unregistered Guest.

    Please consider registering so as to take better advantage of our vast knowledge base and friendly community.  By registering you will gain access to many features - among them are our powerful Search feature, the ability to Private Message other Users, and be able to post and/or answer questions from all over the world. It is completely free, no “catches,” and you will have complete control over how you wish to use this site.

    PalmTalk is sponsored by the International Palm Society. - an organization dedicated to learning everything about and enjoying palm trees (and their companion plants) while conserving endangered palm species and habitat worldwide. Please take the time to know us all better and register.

    guest Renda04.jpg

Are Hybrid Palmate Species Possible?


BeyondTheGarden

Recommended Posts

When you look for hybrid palms, all kinds of pinnate genus' seem possible to hybridize.  Butias, Jubaeas, Parajubaeas, Syagrus, Lytocaryum, all mixed together.  I'm sure there are more inter-species hybrids in existence that I'm unaware of.  

But when it comes to palmate hybrids, I've only ever seen intra-species hybrids.  Trachycarpus fortunei x wagnerianus.  Sabal minor x palmetto.  Washingtonia robusta x filifera (those are the only examples I can think of, off-hand).  Would it be possible to hybridize different genus's of palmate palms?  I'm going to take artistic liberty and list some of the genus's that I think would be cool to play with (most in this list are quite cold hardy);

Solitary, tall:

Livistona x Sabal  

Trachycarpus x Thrinax  

Trachycarpus x Sabal

Washingtonia x Livistona

Washingtonia x Sabal

Suckering and/or understory/shade-lover:

Rhapidophyllum x Rhapis

Sabal minor x Trachycarpus

Chamaerops x Rhapidophyllum

Chamaerops x Rhapis 

Trachycarpus x Rhapidophyllum

I know there's a lot of science here that I don't understand.  But a lot of scientific discoveries have also come from simple cave-man ideas executed by uneducated simpletons.  I wish I had mature specimens of these palms to experiment myself.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

When you look for hybrid palms, all kinds of pinnate genus' seem possible to hybridize.  Butias, Jubaeas, Parajubaeas, Syagrus, Lytocaryum, all mixed together.  I'm sure there are more inter-species hybrids in existence that I'm unaware of.  

But when it comes to palmate hybrids, I've only ever seen intra-species hybrids.  Trachycarpus fortunei x wagnerianus.  Sabal minor x palmetto.  Washingtonia robusta x filifera (those are the only examples I can think of, off-hand).  Would it be possible to hybridize different genus's of palmate palms?

The only palmate hybrid that I am aware of between different genera is Zombia antillarum and Coccothrinax sp. which are very similar and neither very cold hardy (I think both are zone 9b palms).  I have seedlings of other palmate hybrids that you may not be familiar with.  Brahea armata x B. brandegeei, Livistona mariae x L. decora and Copernicia macroglossa x C. hospita.  I understand Copernicia and particularly Coccothrinax hybridize fairly easily within the genus.

Jon Sunder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I saved this pic of a phylogenetic tree that Kinzyjr once found. Gives an impression of what may or may not be possible to hybridize. 
:)

Phylogenetic-tree-of-the-palms-Arecaceae-with-generic-level-sampling-based-on-the.png

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Swolte said:

I saved this pic of a phylogenetic tree that Kinzyjr once found. Gives an impression of what may or may not be possible to hybridize. 
:)

 

So Trachycarpus and Rhapidophyllum could hybridize?  Super-hardy windmill palms?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That graphic really explains a lot.  I totally see the similarities between Chamaerops and R hystrix, for example.  

Trachycarpus x acoelorrhaphe wrightii would be really cool.   Rhapis x R hystrix would be great.    Caryota x Arenga (Arenga engleri fronds remind me of C mitis or urens).   Crossing Baccariophoenix with Butia or Jubaea hybrids would be cool.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brahea brandegeei x brahea edulis makes a nice hybrid.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My windmill palms bloom earlier than my needle palms.  I imagine that having different bloom times would make it difficult to pollinate one with the other.  Do the palms that are often hybridized like Jubaea and Butia flower at the same time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Needles and trachys can’t hybridize - too far apart genetically. For the record my needles and trachys flowering overlap. Trachys start first though. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Chester B said:

Needles and trachys can’t hybridize - too far apart genetically. For the record my needles and trachys flowering overlap. Trachys start first though. 

They are close on this scale, but no star.  Is that what the stars mean on this chart?

 

Screen Shot 2021-06-05 at 12.52.45 PM.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2021 at 2:08 AM, Jesse PNW said:

When you look for hybrid palms, all kinds of pinnate genus' seem possible to hybridize.  Butias, Jubaeas, Parajubaeas, Syagrus, Lytocaryum, all mixed together.  I'm sure there are more inter-species hybrids in existence that I'm unaware of.  

But when it comes to palmate hybrids, I've only ever seen intra-species hybrids.  Trachycarpus fortunei x wagnerianus.  Sabal minor x palmetto.  Washingtonia robusta x filifera (those are the only examples I can think of, off-hand).  Would it be possible to hybridize different genus's of palmate palms?  I'm going to take artistic liberty and list some of the genus's that I think would be cool to play with (most in this list are quite cold hardy);

Solitary, tall:

Livistona x Sabal  

Trachycarpus x Thrinax  

Trachycarpus x Sabal

Washingtonia x Livistona

Washingtonia x Sabal

Suckering and/or understory/shade-lover:

Rhapidophyllum x Rhapis

Sabal minor x Trachycarpus

Chamaerops x Rhapidophyllum

Chamaerops x Rhapis 

Trachycarpus x Rhapidophyllum

I know there's a lot of science here that I don't understand.  But a lot of scientific discoveries have also come from simple cave-man ideas executed by uneducated simpletons.  I wish I had mature specimens of these palms to experiment myself.  

I'd like to see Brahea armata x Washingtonia robusta. If the blue color comes through, it would be a nice cold hardy, humidity tolerant blue fan palm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, howfam said:

I'd like to see Brahea armata x Washingtonia robusta. If the blue color comes through, it would be a nice cold hardy, humidity tolerant blue fan palm.

And would probably have a low-fast growth speed depending on how much of each parent shows through.

Palms - 4 S. romanzoffiana, 1 W. bifurcata, 2 W. robusta, 1 R. rivularis, 1 B. odorata, 1 B. nobilis, 2 S. palmetto, 1 A. merillii, 1 P. canariensis, 1 BxJ, 1 BxJxBxS, 1 BxS, 3 P. roebelenii, 1 H. lagenicaulis, 1 H. verschaffeltii, 9 T. fortunei, 1 C. humilis, 2 C. macrocarpa, 1 L. chinensis, 1 R. excelsa

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2021 at 8:14 PM, Jesse PNW said:

 Rhapis x R hystrix would be great.

I've tried this a couple of times!  Never had any seed set.

Female Rhapis excelsa,  pollen from needle.   The seed size between the two is pretty different, might work better with a Needle as the female (bigger space for embryo?).

I had to find the last opening male needle flowers in the yard to pollinate the Rhapis which generally flowers later for me.  I might try and save some needle pollen and try again this year?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/5/2021 at 8:02 AM, Chester B said:

Needles and trachys can’t hybridize - too far apart genetically. For the record my needles and trachys flowering overlap. Trachys start first though. 

Actually according to that map they are very close genetically. Trachycarpus is closest relative to Needles. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Seems like C humilis and R hystrix are very similar in a lot of ways. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...