Help, my Parajubaea torallyi is dying

[Dimovi]

My parajubaea torallyi has been happily growing for a year in the same spot but a few weeks later all leaflets closed shut and look rather wilted and the old ones are quickly browning and dying out. I don't think much has changed recently except for frequent rains that keeps the soil wet. I suspect fungus. Any recommendations?

The first picture is from November when it was doing great, the second is recent.

[akamu]

If You think the soil is staying too wet pull the plastic and mulch back away from the base and let it air out then poor hydrogen peroxide down the crown for fungus this might help your situation

[aztropic]

Looks like that one is done. If you try again,mound planting may help,but mother nature is uncontrollable.

 

aztropic 

Mesa,Arizona

[Dimovi]

59 minutes ago, akamu said:

If You think the soil is staying too wet pull the plastic and mulch back away from the base and let it air out then poor hydrogen peroxide down the crown for fungus this might help your situation

I did treat it with hydrogen peroxide and added some lawn fungicide to the soil. I wonder if I should cut off all dead and dying fronds. Maybe I should cut all fronds off? I was hoping someone has successfully recovered palms in this condition.

[NorCalWill]

It looks like it was doing fine before you put down plastic and moved all of those nursery containers around it.

[Dimovi]

2 minutes ago, NorCalWill said:

It looks like it was doing fine before you put down plastic and moved all of those nursery containers around it.

The plastic and the pots were there before the first picture, but I had removed them for a day in order to mulch and that's when I happened to take the picture.

[akamu]

The plastic could be creating a humidity dome making a good environment for fungus to grow perhaps The lawn fungicide should  help as long as it has Tmethyl in the ingredients . It could also be winter damage. What was your low temps and for how long 

[Tyrone]

How hot has the weather been for you in recent times? I think your palm is already dead but it’s worth trying to save it just in case it’s not. 

[TomJ]

IDK.

If I was to guess I think they hate heat and humidity together.

I'm sure that's happening in Texas right now.

Just a guess.

 

[akamu]

41 minutes ago, TomJ said:

IDK.

If I was to guess I think they hate heat and humidity together.

I'm sure that's happening in Texas right now.

Just a guess.

 

This is a very good point palmpedia says these come from cool cold and dry places at very high elevation not a good Palm for Florida and Hawaii so maybe not liking that Texas humidity and heat. I have never grown one myself but  I saw a huge one in Huntington beach years ago 

[aztropic]

We'll,they definitely can take the heat and survive to grow another year. I have a couple receiving full afternoon western sun in Arizona,and last summer was our hottest EVER recorded with 14 days of 115 or higher,50 some days of 110 or higher. Both palms are still growing and have been in the ground 10 years.

 

aztropic 

Mesa,Arizona

[Tyrone]

1 hour ago, aztropic said:

We'll,they definitely can take the heat and survive to grow another year. I have a couple receiving full afternoon western sun in Arizona,and last summer was our hottest EVER recorded with 14 days of 115 or higher,50 some days of 110 or higher. Both palms are still growing and have been in the ground 10 years.

 

aztropic 

Mesa,Arizona

Whats your typical RH when you get above 100F?

[aztropic]

5%

 

aztropic 

Mesa,Arizona

[Tyrone]

2 hours ago, aztropic said:

5%

 

aztropic 

Mesa,Arizona

Dry heat then. Humid heat and these Parajubaea can have problems. 

My thinking with the original posters issue is that the plastic has essentially allowed the soil to solarise and heat up. My Parajubaea's do have roots just below the soil surface so it's possible with the plastic there it has elevated the soil temp and the top roots may have cooked. Also any water sitting on top of hot plastic would create high humidity as others have mentioned. If the palm hasn't completely died I'd be removing the plastic and give it some space and hope for the best.

[Phoenikakias]

Thielaviopsis for sure. This plant is  as good as dead. Next time you try a Parajubaea try preemptively some soil treatment with trichoderma.

[Dimovi]

The thing is that it was in the ground for over a year and did very well through the hot and sometimes humid spring and summer last year. This spring was also far cooler than last one. Also it did not have any cold damage as I covered it and it was doing really great after the winter until very recently. I assume it was getting waterlogged as any small rain would channel through the tarp into the root zone. I have raised that point and it should not channel extra water into the base, but at this point I feel preventative measures won't work. I have to treat with chemicals and even that seems unlikely to work.

For now I am pouring hydrogen peroxide on it and I have added Propiconazole fungicide to the soil at the base.

[Jim in Los Altos]

I would be really pleasantly surprised to see any Parajubaea torallyi grow to maturity in a hot humid climate such as in Texas. They can withstand some pretty high temperatures but that in combination with high humidity seems to be too much for them. Cool nighttime temperatures are nearly essential for healthy growth. 

Your our part of Texas experienced the effects of the polar vortex in February and so how did you protect your Parajubaea from the cold and how cold was it? I’m wondering if you’re seeing the residual effects of freeze damage on the palm now. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Jim in Los Altos

[aztropic]

Over 100F in Arizona today. Here's 1 of mine. Still a little torched from last year's record heat,but growing fine,none the less.

 

aztropic 

Mesa,Arizona

[Phoenikakias]

50 minutes ago, aztropic said:

Over 100F in Arizona today. Here's 1 of mine. Still a little torched from last year's record heat,but growing fine,none the less.

 

aztropic 

Mesa,Arizona

I am well aware of that look lol. The plant is trying to say I may survive but I do not feel happy nor can I thrive here. It can not compete equally with a similar specimen growing in ... Switzerland,  for which even my own cooler than Arizona's climate is no match.

[Dimovi]

1 hour ago, Jim in Los Altos said:

I would be really pleasantly surprised to see any Parajubaea torallyi grow to maturity in a hot humid climate such as in Texas. They can withstand some pretty high temperatures but that in combination with high humidity seems to be too much for them. Cool nighttime temperatures are nearly essential for healthy growth. 

Your our part of Texas experienced the effects of the polar vortex in February and so how did you protect your Parajubaea from the cold and how cold was it? I’m wondering if you’re seeing the residual effects of freeze damage on the palm now. 

Well, the heat has not really gotten here yet, if it was in the summer I would consider it more probable. I am almost certain it is water being channeled by the tarp into the base. Also, I added well composted manure to the pots, which may have leached and possibly compounded the problem.

The cold was not an issue because I had covered and heated the seedlings all around so the temperature was always above freezing. Also it looked great for two months after February. Otherwise outside the coldest temps here were around 7-10f for a few hours, but it remained below freezing for a few days. I actually had an unprotected 3 year old queen that I had written off, but miraculously it came back up.

[Dimovi]

1 hour ago, aztropic said:

Over 100F in Arizona today. Here's 1 of mine. Still a little torched from last year's record heat,but growing fine,none the less.

 

aztropic 

Mesa,Arizona

Where did you get yours from? I'd like to try again in a different spot that is more dry. These guys are so hard to find.

[Tyrone]

These can actually take tons of water and love it. I’ve got 3 now about 4m tall on the side of the lake and they never dry out, planted in what is basically peat. Last winter the whole place flooded and the three Parajubaeas had there trunks in the lake for quite a while. They loved it and grew like mad. However I have cool nights all year round and only a handful of days in summer above 30C. Humidity is always moderate to high with the odd day with low humidity on the very hottest days. In a marginally too hot and humid climate you would have to be more careful with water applications as they probably slow down or completely stop growing when it’s too hot for them. 

[aztropic]

3 hours ago, Dimovi said:

Where did you get yours from? I'd like to try again in a different spot that is more dry. These guys are so hard to find.

This was grown from seed over 10 or more years ago.

 

aztropic 

Mesa,Arizona

[Swolte]

Do you have any other specimens? If so, how are they doing? If its species-typical intolerance to prolonged and extreme humidity, you'd expect others to show some detriment too. Looks like its in a pot in the second pic. Did you transplant it? (if so, there might be part of your answer). Can you inspect the root system?

[Dimovi]

1 hour ago, Swolte said:

Do you have any other specimens? If so, how are they doing? If its species-typical intolerance to prolonged and extreme humidity, you'd expect others to show some detriment too. Looks like its in a pot in the second pic. Did you transplant it? (if so, there might be part of your answer). Can you inspect the root system?

I have just one and both pictures are in the same place in the ground.

[Dimovi]

Does anyone know where I can buy a live plant or seed from?

[Tom in Tucson]

On 5/13/2021 at 8:15 PM, Dimovi said:

Does anyone know where I can buy a live plant or seed from?

I would try Jungle Music. I bought my last 1 ten years ago from there.

Hi 101˚, Lo 61˚

[sonoranfans]

Having lived in gilbert AZ for 10 years, the spring and get as low a 4-5% when it heats to 105-115F or so. in may june early july but the lowest average month is 17% RH in june over night and daytime.  Once the wind direction changes(monsoon) in summer, the humidity will be more highly oscillating but averages about 32% in august,day and night.  Averages are misleading with such a 30-40F temperature swing, day and night.  But nightime is a relief for the palms.  Needless to say daytime RH is typically lower than night as temps rise 30-40 degrees in the day.  There is plenty of time during the year when 105F has 25% humidity or more, especially in the monsoon  season where it can get to 50%.  A typical RH of 5% wold mean many values below that and that doesnt happen.  5% RH is a really stressing conditon at 110F+, especially in full arizona sun. I've seen some palms get "dry tips" in one day under those conditions.  

https://www.weather-us.com/en/arizona-usa/gilbert-climate#humidity_relative

 

 

[Dimovi]

17 hours ago, Tom in Tucson said:

I would try Jungle Music. I bought my last 1 ten years ago from there.

Hi 101˚, Lo 61˚

I tried but Phil said they don't have any and they have not gotten any seeds in years. That where I got this one.

[96720]

I would never put plastic on the ground air in the root zone is just as important as water being in landscape maintenance I’ve over and over had to rake back the granite and pull up the plastic so plants struggling could survive 

[Tom in Tucson]

6 hours ago, Dimovi said:

I tried but Phil said they don't have any and they have not gotten any seeds in years. That where I got this one.

Did you ask him about P. sunkha? I think those are easier to grow here, but I'm not sure about Texas. The 2 I'm growing are struggling (the one from JM is doing the best), but like Jubaea it's worth a try. You'll never know unless you try.

Hi 96˚, Lo 66˚

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

@Dimovi Instead of trying to make a palm work in an area it shouldn't. I would get intouch with Patric and get one of his Butia x PJT. The Butia genes should give it a fighting chance in Texas. I haven't put mine in the ground yet but I expect it won't be a problem with the hot or cold =) 

T J 

[Dimovi]

20 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

@Dimovi Instead of trying to make a palm work in an area it shouldn't. I would get intouch with Patric and get one of his Butia x PJT. The Butia genes should give it a fighting chance in Texas. I haven't put mine in the ground yet but I expect it won't be a problem with the hot or cold =) 

T J 

I was worried when I got my P. Torallyi that the summer heat or the winter cold could kill it, but it thrived for a year. Instead it started to die during the mild spring, which is very similar to the rainy season in its natural habitat.

I killed it, it was not the weather. I was just asking if anyone has figured out how to treat this. 

Anyway I would try a cross. I have a few Butia X Syagrus mules. Where is Patric selling them?

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

18 minutes ago, Dimovi said:

I killed it, it was not the weather. I was just asking if anyone has figured out how to treat this. 

This seems like a theme here on PT. Parajubaea just up and give up the ghost. Many say overwatering in the summer months. Some say not the case , honestly I think it's an anomaly for a tough grow here.

Patric doesn't advertise on PT , if your interested PM me and I can guide you to his palm goodness =) 

T J 

[necturus]

2 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

This seems like a theme here on PT. Parajubaea just up and give up the ghost. Many say overwatering in the summer months. Some say not the case , honestly I think it's an anomaly for a tough grow here.

Patric doesn't advertise on PT , if your interested PM me and I can guide you to his palm goodness =) 

T J 

Patrick is out of BxPJT. I believe he has some BxPJC.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

1 hour ago, necturus said:

Patrick is out of BxPJT. I believe he has some BxPJC.

Well so much for that idea haha 

T J