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What is your favorite cold hardy palm?

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Ryland

My mother's house in Ashland, Oregon has two tiny Phoenix theophrastis that just seem to survive each year.  They are tiny, so probably will develop hardiness if they get through a few more years.  Planted in around 2009, there's 11 summers' worth of growth (bottom of the picture):

phoenix_theophrasti.thumb.jpg.894f614a6dcc5c2e339489cbf98d5fc8.jpg

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NBTX11

Mine's Washingtonia Filifera.  I challenge anyone to find another palm that gets as big, grows as fast, and is as hardy as the Filifera, taking down to zero degrees F (or less).  It has a little bit of everything, Big, fast growing, and super hardy.  What other palm has that combination??? Sabal palmetto?  Nope, too slow.  Trachycarpus, nope, not fast enough and looks like garbage in the hot Texas sun half the time.  Robusta, maybe, but slightly too tender for Central Texas, and sometimes even south central Texas (San Antonio)  Butia, nope, to slow and hates the soil.  Med Fan, nope too small.  Canary Island date, maybe, but to slow to put on height.   True date, another maybe, but still doesn't have all the great qualities.  Give me another palm that beats Filifera in ALL the categories.  Some are hardier, but are much slower.  Some are fast, but less hardy.   

Edited by NBTX11
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joetx

After this last freeze CIDP all the way.

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NBTX11
Just now, joetx said:

After this last freeze CIDP all the way.

They are definitely way up there, but will they succumb to diseases?

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joetx

 

Just now, NBTX11 said:

They are definitely way up there, but will they succumb to diseases?

They seem to be doing really well up here in N Austin/RR. The ones by Nieman Marcus in the Domain were dropping dates last year: 

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NBTX11

Those aren't canary island dates, those are probably true dates or Dactylifera.  Canaries have much fatter trunks and more recurved fronds.

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Marco67
22 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Seattle (Skagit Valley) and parts of the Netherlands (Holland) are most similar in average temperatures. I know this because they are two largest areas of tulip growing that have to have perfect weather for tulip agriculture.

I have seen trachycapus in the Netherlands, but not seen much else?

Trachycarpus and Chamaerops are your best options in the Netherlands. Most winters are not so cold but occasionally we get a winter like 2012 in which it went down to   -16 C (3 F).

For species like Canariensis and Washingtonia that is too much, especially in combination with the dampness. Its a pity they are my favourite palms. For really tall Canariensis and Washingtonia's on the continent you will have to go to the mildest parts of Britanny or places like Biarritz in southwestern France.  

We have a bit more heat on the continent during the summer months, compared to most parts of the British islands. Western Europe probably has a very similar climate to the PNW with mostly westerly winds. We also have a little help from the gulf stream to keep the winters mild but I am not sure how much that is.  Its almost a miracle we can grow palms at all at our latitude.  

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joetx
27 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Those aren't canary island dates, those are probably true dates or Dactylifera.  Canaries have much fatter trunks and more recurved fronds.

A well...at any rate - they are doing quite well! Got some seeds soaking in the kitchen right now.

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ShadyDan

There is a large CIDP in Tofino (west coast of Vancouver Island), which is probably the most mild spot in the PNW north of SW Oregon. It is also cooler and much wetter than the southern UK, so its certainly not the winter wet alone that prevents them from growing here.  As mentioned before, the PNW is generally much wetter in the winter (drier + warmer in the summer) and more susceptible to severe continental artic outbreaks than the UK. Being on Vancouver Island, we are lucky to have a large mountain range and a small stretch of ocean to protect us from those arctic outflows. Across the straight, Vancouver and the Fraser Valley get hammered by the cold outflow winds during these events. By the time they reach the East side of the Island, they have all but dissipated. On top of this, Tofino and the West Coast of Van Isle have the Island mountain ranges to further protect against winter cold, leading to the mildest winters in Canada and much of the PNW.

Back on topic now, I gotta say my favorite palm is Sabal palmetto. Probably because it reminds me of going to Florida to escape my dreary, cool, and grey winters.

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Brandon James

Windmill palms hands down, even can be grown here in Maine with help, on its third year in the ground.7153541E-8C13-4D9F-9607-4D6C566D372B.thumb.jpeg.8e29bc2ba59e1989e0bc9b91807fce98.jpeg

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Jesse PNW

That's a good lookin' Trachy!  What's your zone, how do you protect it, etc? 

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Brandon James
8 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

That's a good lookin' Trachy!  What's your zone, how do you protect it, etc? 

I live on an island off the coast of Maine, our winters have gone below zero some winters but usually it is above that in the single digits. And only a hand full of low single digit nights. This year it was 6 degrees. I construct a wooden frame around the palm and then use lexand glass on the sides. The roof i slope up and unless it’s a cold snap/storm it’s open for the sun to shine on the palm. I have a metal dog crate door I useded on one side to keep animals out since I don’t trust the deer here that time of year. I would put ply wood over the open side if we got a lot of snow to keep it out of the green house.6F89DECD-1F21-4199-946D-82811DE68E15.thumb.jpeg.fdc7458c962296af7cb80c14ef233780.jpeg

613AC695-03C0-48DA-BE59-5048F1E40271.jpeg

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Henoh

Hard to name just one ☺️ In my zone 7 (inland Croatia) all sort of Trachycarpus and their hybrids, especially Trachycarpus wagnerianus, princeps and robust forms of fortunei. In Sabal family large ecotypes of Sabal minor. Of course Chamaerops humilis ‘cerifera’ is the best silver palm we can grow here with passive protection.

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freakypalmguy

I think I’m going to go with Butia hybrids, here’s a mule with a few cold hardy friends that make the top of my list, L to R, Bismarkia, Mule, Butia archeri, Butia compacta, and Brahea clara

20312B32-1C0C-4CB3-8022-123D81BEC4D8.jpeg

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

Hard to beat a Bismarckia for its unsuspecting cold hardiness surviving Palmageddon. Also it's the one fan palm even fan palm haters can love haha Next is Sabal Causiarum if you want the Bismarckia look with even more cold hardiness. 

T J 

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SailorBold
3 hours ago, freakypalmguy said:

I think I’m going to go with Butia hybrids, here’s a mule with a few cold hardy friends that make the top of my list, L to R, Bismarkia, Mule, Butia archeri, Butia compacta, and Brahea clara

20312B32-1C0C-4CB3-8022-123D81BEC4D8.jpeg

For me it's gonna be pure filifera...and as very close seconds trachy.. and the butia/jubaea hybrids.. butiaxjubaeaxbutia and jubaea x butia f3..

My jubaeaxbutia f3..  dont want to know what temps will kill it but.. incredible leaf hardiness on both hybrids..  also they seem like they will be massive palms..  This may change in the future when I find a nice sized mexicana to add... somewhere..

I dont have any trachycarpus yet.. but I suspect my rain barrel watering system will grow some beautiful trees..

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newtopalmsMD

Sabal Louisiana,  16 months ago when I planted it, It was much shorter than my sabal minor that is in its second year of producing seeds.  Now at the end of its second summer it's taller (though not quite as full) as my sabal minor.  I feel like (hopefully correctly) that heavy mulch and a fence to the north is all I need for it to survive 7a winters here in MD (a few miles north of DC).  

This is the first time I have looked at CIDP and they are wonderful.  But not really an option here.  

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jwitt

I have two favorites:

Curved Washingtonia filifera

 

 

 

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Emman

Definitely CIDP with their deep green fronds, palmettos that are kind of "hurricane cut" but still have some brown fronds hanging are a second favorite.

I've warmed up to the queens after seeing some in person, they just seem so over planted in places like California and central/southern Florida.

 

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RyManUtah

:wub:

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Silas_Sancona
39 minutes ago, RyManUtah said:

:wub:

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Agree 100%, Top spot belongs to Brahea, hands down..  Then Sabal uresana, and Nanorrhops r.. 

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UK_Palms

I don't understand the bad rep that Robusta's get. I know people say they drop seed like crazy and are too common and over-planted, but I personally think they look great. The more the better. They are relatively hardy too and I think they look better than any Trachycarpus Fortunei in my opinion. I still prefer CIDP and Filifera over Robusa's though.

954165231_Screenshot2021-08-26at21_32_38.thumb.png.fe4ca9dcebc5a6442efefea8033dc774.png

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MarkbVet
On 5/13/2021 at 11:43 AM, UK_Palms said:

Places like Portland and Seattle are no colder or wetter than London during winter, so I don't get why CIDP and Filifera won't make it there. In fact they get more sunshine hours too. You would think those parts of the PNW would have some big CIDP's and Washies, especially in the inner city areas where the UHI is greatest. So it doesn't really make sense.

London is jam packed with CIDP's now that are getting pretty big and there's quite a few 30+ foot Filifera's now, so I don't really buy the "too much wet-cold" argument. There must be another factor in survival that is being overlooked as well, surely. Why would they survive in London but not Portland? Perhaps there are some decent sized ones tucked away in Portland or Seattle back yards, maybe? Out of sight and up against a house for instance...?

Seattle maybe, but Portland is inland, so not a coastal 9a climate like London, we're 8a.  That's enough difference to make a big difference.   Coastal Oregon is more like your 9a climate; these palms survive on our coast.  

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Chester B
1 hour ago, MarkbVet said:

Seattle maybe, but Portland is inland, so not a coastal 9a climate like London, we're 8a.  That's enough difference to make a big difference.   Coastal Oregon is more like your 9a climate; these palms survive on our coast.  

I’ve been tracking Seattle weather daily versus Portland for at least a couple years. No comparison they are colder In both the lows and highs.then Portland and rated zone 8a. Maybe on the west side in parts of Beaverton at elevation there are pockets of 8a but almost the entire Portland area is zone 8B. All maps seem to be in agreement of this. Very close to the Willamette river are now classified as zone 9A in the inner core in SE. It seems like CIDP need a zone 9a possibly higher in the Pacific Northwest to survive long term.

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Chad king NC

Butia is not fully hardy for me but slow enough to keep alive for a long time so it gets my vote.

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MarkbVet
13 hours ago, Chester B said:

I’ve been tracking Seattle weather daily versus Portland for at least a couple years. No comparison they are colder In both the lows and highs.then Portland and rated zone 8a. Maybe on the west side in parts of Beaverton at elevation there are pockets of 8a but almost the entire Portland area is zone 8B. All maps seem to be in agreement of this. Very close to the Willamette river are now classified as zone 9A in the inner core in SE. It seems like CIDP need a zone 9a possibly higher in the Pacific Northwest to survive long term.

Yeah my area may be zone 8b now. Historically (on our low hill) I've been in 8a.   The new climate zone map (which I just shared in another post) shows a small pocket of zone 9 in the Portland area.  I was not really speaking to Seattle per se,  but more toward Oregon's coast being zone 9+ consistently, therefore Phoenix palms seem to do well there.  Maybe they'll do ok here now too, with climate change and/or willingness to have some leaf dieback as long as the plants survive.  Seattle averages lower temps all year than Portland, summer and winter (Seattle is more coastal after all), but I'd be curious as to how the extreme (not average) lows compare.   Tasmanian tree ferns do ok in Seattle, but do not seem to survive well in Portland, which I assumed was due in part to our occasional more extreme "lowest" temps than Seattle sees.   My response to the British commenter's thoughts that "Portland and Seattle should be able to grow the same palms as in Britain" (paraphrased) was mainly to say that no,  there are things they grow routinely in parts of Britain that don't do well in the majority of the Pacific NW.  Because there are areas in Britain that are solidly zone 9, and not much of the Pacific NW is in zone 9.  

Edited by MarkbVet
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Chester B

Seattle is half a growing zone colder so I think that’s probably all the proof we really need. However look at this winter during the cold snap in December. We had one day below freezing they had a week. Our lowest temperature was in the mid 20s theirs was in the teens.Many of the videos of Seattle growers and pictures here show spear pull and damage to palms that have never been damaged here. The temperatures they had this winter were more than enough to kill any Tasmanian Treefern.  The only tree ferns I know of in Seattle are protected in winter like the ones at Amazon‘s headquarters. Anecdotally every winter they get more snow events than we do whereas we primarily get rain. Every time we’ve had a cold snap they’ve had it worse. So I don’t see any evidence that they experience less extreme lows than we do. You can even look at Vancouver British Columbia where they sustained major damage to their plants even though parts of it are 8B and on the coast. 
 

Over in Britain there seems to be some undetermined factor as to why they can grow large Washingtonia and CIDP’s in zone 9A where it seems like we struggle to do that here.  Perhaps because we have more hours of precipitation due to drizzle and our misty like. weather.  It’s frustrating to be honest. But I am willing to try these plants again to see how things are. The largest CIDP I have seen unprotected was in North Bend Oregon but that is the edge of zone 9B. But then there is Hutch with his big CDP and he is an 8B in Pleasanton Oregon which is just outside of Eugene so that can always give us hope.  I have a CIDP that I am growing and plan to put in the ground spring 2023. 

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Will Simpson

Sabal Birmingham for me . It is a truly very hardy palm too . Mine has seen 4F .

 

50138200327_c8ccf1f719_b.jpg

 

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P. Hightower

Mule

Sabal 

T. fortunei

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8BPalms

Satakentia I took a strong liking to, then annoyed me that it's about 5 degrees too cold to grow here. Basically same boat with beccariophoenix alfredii, a lot of syagrus and dypsis, they're not totally long term yet.. Parajubaea, ceroxylon, jubaea are awesome but not dry enough and too hot here for them.  As for what will actually grow here probably s. Romanzoffiana, Dypsis decaryi, or dypsis mana. . not a big fan of fan palms yet.. 

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Jesse PNW
8 minutes ago, 8BPalms said:

... not a big fan of fan palms yet.. 

When I first started liking palms I only wanted pinnate palms.  2 years later, pinnates are OK but most of my favorite palms are palmate.  When I first heard Joe Clemente say in one of his youtube videos that pinnate palms weren't his favorite thing to look at, he'd rather be surrounded by palmate fronds, I thought he was crazy.  But as time progresses I find myself liking palmate more than pinnate.  Palmate are just more wild, prehistoric, untamed. 

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Chester B
21 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

When I first started liking palms I only wanted pinnate palms.  2 years later, pinnates are OK but most of my favorite palms are palmate.  When I first heard Joe Clemente say in one of his youtube videos that pinnate palms weren't his favorite thing to look at, he'd rather be surrounded by palmate fronds, I thought he was crazy.  But as time progresses I find myself liking palmate more than pinnate.  Palmate are just more wild, prehistoric, untamed. 

Totally agree. Pinnate are kind of boring, palmate have the wow factor. 

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Jesse PNW
8 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Totally agree. Pinnate are kind of boring, palmate have the wow factor. 

This Sabal birmingham is like holy $h!#!  Credit @Will Simpson

sabal_birmingham_willsimpson.jpg

Edited by Jesse PNW
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Jimhardy

I'm going with my palm right now because I am ready for spring

and if I see one more snow man (old man winter) he is getting

b**** slapped.

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Will Simpson
18 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

This Sabal birmingham is like holy $h!#!  Credit @Will Simpson

sabal_birmingham_willsimpson.jpg

Thanks Jesse .

It's actually another year bigger than in that picture . I'll have an updated picture this summer . 

Will

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8BPalms

Okay you're kind of right, Bismarckia and the blue palmate palms are really awesome, as well as those tropical ones with massive leaves! And I love seeing big native sabals in old growth forests. But there is something kind of annoying about them, I think it's because there are almost too many sabals and palmettos in Florida.. and phoenix I are  prehistoric looking too. But even sylvestris and butias can be too common sometimes, almost annoying as well. Lol.

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