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PalmCode

Rhopalostylis ID

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PalmCode

Hello all,  Iv'e known about his palm for a while and it's been bugging me... what type of Nikau is this? My gut says it's R.Baueri with that crownshaft  and inflorecence but those darker green leaves and whiteish petioles thew me off a bit and make me think maybe Chatham. 

Any one here think they tell?

Thanks for any input.

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Edited by PalmCode
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Tyrone

I'm thinking Chatham.

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Gary

think more likely to be baueri as see the right features

SANY0169 (2).JPG

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Billeb

I vote Chatham Island solely on the white petioles. 

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PalmCode
1 hour ago, Gary said:

think more likely to be baueri as see the right features

SANY0169 (2).JPG

Yeah I can see from your photo they do share very similar features. It's a tough one to pick but if  you're right this would be the most Chatham islands looking Baueri Iv'e seen, at least growing in an area more exposed to sunlight. Might be lucky enough to gather a few seeds from it in the future.

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Gary

here is landsendt pitt island and mustbe 50 of them there.What area is your pic taken?

SANY7420.JPG

SANY7419.JPG

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Gary

here is a norfolk island baueri

SANY0129 (2).JPG

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sipalms
29 minutes ago, Gary said:

here is landsendt pitt island and mustbe 50 of them there.What area is your pic taken?

SANY7420.JPG

SANY7419.JPG

Every single time I look at these ones, I can't see a single bit of Pitt Island there...! :wacko:

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Gary
4 minutes ago, sipalms said:

Every single time I look at these ones, I can't see a single bit of Pitt Island there...! :wacko:

these also came from landsendt

SANY7326.JPG

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Gary

more pitt -note short crownshaft

SANY3718.JPG

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Gary

more pitt

SANY3712.JPG

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Gary

here are some of the manakau city pitt

SANY1713.JPG

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Gary
5 hours ago, PalmCode said:

Hello all,  Iv'e known about his palm for a while and it's been bugging me... what type of Nikau is this? My gut says it's R.Baueri with that crownshaft  and inflorecence but those darker green leaves and whiteish petioles thew me off a bit and make me think maybe Chatham. 

Any one here think they tell?

Thanks for any input.

a100_8023.jpg

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a100_8047.jpg

i see this palm is flowering at present as see spent ones on ground.Not sure if pitt are at present but do know baueri are as have bout 10 at my place in flower now 

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PalmCode

Sweetas, ive seen  some of those those palms before. Guess the white powder not rubbing off the petioles can make a Baueri  look more what you'd expect from some  garden grown pitt/chatham island that you can see around.

Yeah i just picked up some seed from it, Theyre larger than mainland sapida.

I'm thinking this is a Baueri, i just think it looks more like one that has been growing somewhere in California or overseas not so much North Auckland. Random. 

anyway cheers. 

 

 

100_8037.JPG

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Gary

this one is chatham island from the main island chatham.Plant supplied by Graham Platt in late 80s 

SANY3710.JPG

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Tyrone

I’ve not seen bauerii with such white petioles. They’re either green or dark brown to almost black in some cases. I think Chathams also have white flowers like bauerii. I still think the Chatham is a version of bauerii not sapida. That fat thick leaflet and white petiole make me think Chatham for the original post. But that’s just my opinion. 

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PalmCode
1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

I’ve not seen bauerii with such white petioles. They’re either green or dark brown to almost black in some cases. I think Chathams also have white flowers like bauerii. I still think the Chatham is a version of bauerii not sapida. That fat thick leaflet and white petiole make me think Chatham for the original post. But that’s just my opinion. 

Yep, I  agree with what youre saying. Chatham really is like a version of bauerii  From seedling to adult more so than mainland sapdia. I don't know what the Chathams flowers look like...From the  lowest branches up,  this one looks more chatham than bauerii to me.  I can't figure it out.

Either way, it just goes to show how diverse palms can be. :greenthumb:

cheers

Edited by PalmCode

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richnorm

Are those not purple flowers on photos 3 and 4? That would rule out baueri.  I am not sure if Chathams can have purple flowers sometimes. Certainly ordinary sapida can sometimes throw white flowers.  

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Gary
42 minutes ago, richnorm said:

Are those not purple flowers on photos 3 and 4? That would rule out baueri.  I am not sure if Chathams can have purple flowers sometimes. Certainly ordinary sapida can sometimes throw white flowers.  

chathams has pinkish flowers often just like other sapida.The pic is one at my place.I do see white sapida flowers in the wild but not that often.There are places round auckland where i suspect baueri and sapida have hybrized looking at resulting seedlings and parent plant.Your screen wouldbe sharper than mine to see flowers on his pics

SANY1901.JPG

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PalmCode
2 hours ago, richnorm said:

Are those not purple flowers on photos 3 and 4? That would rule out baueri.  I am not sure if Chathams can have purple flowers sometimes. Certainly ordinary sapida can sometimes throw white flowers.  

Yes there is some pink or purple color in two of its flower branches. The other one looks completely white. Does that not happen with Baueri?... I guess its possible then this could be a hybrid of some sort but I don't know.

Edited by PalmCode

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richnorm

Sapida flowers can be pale when first released from the spathe but colour up when flowers open.   I think baueri stay snowy white but there may be rare variation.  I can't see any other way the two species can be separated definitively given variation overlap. 

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Gary
24 minutes ago, richnorm said:

Sapida flowers can be pale when first released from the spathe but colour up when flowers open.   I think baueri stay snowy white but there may be rare variation.  I can't see any other way the two species can be separated definitively given variation overlap. 

baueri are almost look bleached white.Colour crownshaft also can set them apart

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Gary
43 minutes ago, PalmCode said:

Yes there is some pink or purple color in two of its flower branches. The other one looks completely white. Does that not happen with Baueri?... I guess its possible then this could be a hybrid of some sort but I don't know.

it is not flower branches that set them apart but the flowers

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PalmCode
18 minutes ago, Gary said:

it is not flower branches that set them apart but the flowers

 I didn't get to see what color the flowers were in time.

Heres some fresh seed from it and more flower branch.

a100_8075.jpg

a100_8053.jpg

a100_8060.jpg

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Tassie_Troy1971

Here is my R sapida Chatham island for comparison.

 

20210511_081122.jpg

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20210511_081241.jpg

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Tassie_Troy1971

Also my R Baueri

 

 

20210511_081259.jpg

20210511_081342.jpg

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PalmCode
18 minutes ago, Tassie_Troy1971 said:

Also my R Baueri

 

 

20210511_081259.jpg

20210511_081342.jpg

Ah there we go.  After seeing your R. Baueri with the white petioles and darker leaves I'm convinced the palm in question is R. Baueri now, thanks a lot.  Your palms look stunning by the way.

Edited by PalmCode
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sipalms
38 minutes ago, Tassie_Troy1971 said:

Also my R Baueri

 

 

20210511_081259.jpg

20210511_081342.jpg

Beautiful palms @Tassie_Troy1971

At that size, what would you say are the defining factors between Chatham and Baueri? And how does the growth  rate compare in your climate?

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PalmCode

@sipalms I don't mind posting you a few seeds off this palm if you're keen to try and grow some.

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sipalms
45 minutes ago, PalmCode said:

@sipalms I don't mind posting you a few seeds off this palm if you're keen to try and grow some.

Thanks Cody, appreciate the offer. My problem is that I have a terrible track record with Nikau germination and have mainly cheated with seedlings rather than seeds. But I'd love to try. I'll PM you... 

Do you think, if it was a hybrid Chatham+Baueri, there would be some degree of increased vigour or hardiness?

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Gary
3 hours ago, PalmCode said:

 I didn't get to see what color the flowers were in time.

Heres some fresh seed from it and more flower branch.

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here is fresh baueri seed from yesterday.I dont know of any fresh pitt seeds at this time of year but here are seedlings and seed mixed

SANY0177 (2).JPG

SANY0178 (1).JPG

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Gary

the last pitt seed i collected was December and on left in pic

SANY0179 (3).JPG

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PalmCode
3 hours ago, sipalms said:

Thanks Cody, appreciate the offer. My problem is that I have a terrible track record with Nikau germination and have mainly cheated with seedlings rather than seeds. But I'd love to try. I'll PM you... 

Do you think, if it was a hybrid Chatham+Baueri, there would be some degree of increased vigour or hardiness?

If by some fluke it is a hybrid then I guess it maybe more cold hardy like the chathams are.

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Tassie_Troy1971
22 hours ago, sipalms said:

Beautiful palms @Tassie_Troy1971

At that size, what would you say are the defining factors between Chatham and Baueri? And how does the growth  rate compare in your climate?

Hi

The Chatham Island is by far the fastest Rhopalostylis in my climate compared to my others , Auckland sapida, great barrier Island , Waipatikki beach.

The R  Baueri is perhaps a bit faster again and has a more open display of leaves rather than the closely set Chatham Island. both have the silver petioles.

 

 

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Gary

for me in waitakere rangers baueri is the quickest grower but little barrier is the most robust palm and pitt is inbetween.All seem to take round 15yrs to flower  so guess you can say all mature ie flower bout the same age.Trouble with Pitt as they age they can look like ordinary sapida as shown in previous pics.Pitt/Chathams have only been available in Auckland since the early 90s from a seed collection Graeme Plant done in mid 80s and 10000 were grown from seed at propex nursery in Henderson. 

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sipalms

Here's some photos I took of the Banks Peninsula Nikau in Habitat in Nikau Gully, Akaroa, that I hiked to last year.

In my opinion these are a bit different to typical mainland Nikau, almost Baueri or Pitt looking, when you observe the thin (i.e. hardly bulging) crownshaft and recurved fronds. I quite like this form, gutted I didn't get any seed.

 

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Gary

maybe you should join the nz  palm and cycad facebook group as there are members from Banks area that probably could send you some seed.That form comes up for sale occassionally as people have collected seed over the years.I have a couple somewhere but would have adapted to my conditions and not look like they would in habitat

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Tassie_Troy1971
3 hours ago, sipalms said:

Here's some photos I took of the Banks Peninsula Nikau in Habitat in Nikau Gully, Akaroa, that I hiked to last year.

In my opinion these are a bit different to typical mainland Nikau, almost Baueri or Pitt looking, when you observe the thin (i.e. hardly bulging) crownshaft and recurved fronds. I quite like this form, gutted I didn't get any seed.

 

20201113_140152.thumb.jpg.9960c106a443b5066ee7736bcb2f47a8.jpg

20201113_140013.thumb.jpg.360b1a7e430ea7fa48797eec4483f893.jpg

20201113_151708.thumb.jpg.275ae77fc5901c646ecbfc7e55d1e8f2.jpg

20201113_135836.thumb.jpg.19739d4967cbde297424967d701d45e4.jpg

20201113_141153.thumb.jpg.f2390225da6782af91083798f2d1886d.jpg

20201113_141253.thumb.jpg.96d0a4f71d57f15b9e51281c44c1ca53.jpg

20201113_141359.thumb.jpg.96003efa0d3dfb0b57e664e0f973e679.jpg

20201113_150538.thumb.jpg.c040d47baa8e8fad65b588b600546a5e.jpg

20201113_151221.thumb.jpg.045e6da561a8eb9b183d69c6aaf2b0d9.jpg

20201113_151638.thumb.jpg.b2849bc8b8fb9a016475912823bc170c.jpg

20201113_152001.thumb.jpg.d28e1fb6f362ed5f75fae972054580f5.jpg

 

fabulous photos

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sipalms

Thanks, @Tassie_Troy1971. You can view the full lot of photos of this trip starting on page 3, here;

 

 

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sipalms

I should add too, that my opinion on banks peninsula form has changed a little as I observe more habitat Rhopalostylis around the country. Seems so be somewhat unique. It certainly is very isolated and likely would have been for many centuries or even millenia, so somewhat homogeneous as a result.

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