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Manos33

Can cocos survive in Lindos,Rhodes in Greece?

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Victor G.
44 minutes ago, Manos33 said:

Btw Kasos dropped to 4.8C today. Pretty close to its all time absolute low of 4.2C

A research said that Europe (as well as US) will advance in zones over the next two decades or so, meaning 9b will become 10a, 10a will become 10b and so on...

But given last winter and this one, I don't see it happening. Many places reached temperatures near their limits, like some islands of the Cyclades/Dodecanese and I think some isolated places in Crete.

And we're only halfway through winter! (hope nothing worse comes our way)

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Victor G.
16 hours ago, Manos33 said:

Btw Kasos dropped to 4.8C today. Pretty close to its all time absolute low of 4.2C

2,7C today. :((

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Manos33

yep it shattered the old record!

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Manos33

The HNMS station in Kasos also confirms that Kasos dropped to 3C . That is the lowest ever temperature recorded in Kasos from 1989!!!

 

887491400_Screenshot2022-01-24at11_19_55AM.png.c61b23dc82a08825ffcd22b961f36f19.png

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Victor G.
4 minutes ago, Manos33 said:

The HNMS station in Kasos also confirms that Kasos dropped to 3C . That is the lowest ever temperature recorded in Kasos from 1989!!!

 

887491400_Screenshot2022-01-24at11_19_55AM.png.c61b23dc82a08825ffcd22b961f36f19.png

I wonder, is it enough to bring it to the 10b zone? (was 11a previously)

Or does it have to happen for a few years repeatedly?

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Manos33

I don't understand the question? 

The yearly absolute minimums are averaged to get the USDA zone. It will be affected with the 3C record but slightly. 

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Victor G.
5 minutes ago, Manos33 said:

I don't understand the question? 

The yearly absolute minimums are averaged to get the USDA zone. It will be affected with the 3C record but slightly. 

Exactly. I mean Kasos was previously in the 11a zone, because the absolute yearly minimums were over 4,4 C. At least that's how I have understood it (could be I'm wrong).

I was wondering if the 3C it recorded this morning (actually 2,7C by the official weather station there, but I think HNMS always rounds up or down to avoid decimal numbers) could bring this average of absolute low temperatures into the 10b zone.

(Cause changing zone seems a big deal to me)

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Manos33
14 minutes ago, Victor G. said:

Exactly. I mean Kasos was previously in the 11a zone, because the absolute yearly minimums were over 4,4 C. At least that's how I have understood it (could be I'm wrong).

I was wondering if the 3C it recorded this morning (actually 2,7C by the official weather station there, but I think HNMS always rounds up or down to avoid decimal numbers) could bring this average of absolute low temperatures into the 10b zone.

(Cause changing zone seems a big deal to me)

2.7C is from NOA station. 3C is from HNMS station rounded. Bear in mind that the HNMS station is always a bit warmer than the NOA station in Kasos. Also according to Gouvas (2012) Kasos is 11b zone actually.  

In order to drop a zone you need the average of the absolute minimums per year for DEC-JAN-FEB-MAR to be less than 4.4C.Up until today's value the average of the absolute minimums in Kasos NOA station was 7.2C according to the Gouvas (2012) formula for Greece which made it a zone 11b. You don't drop a zone because of a single record value but you do it with the averages. Now with today's record Kasos will be affected but after March we will know how much...

Edited by Manos33
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Manos33

In any case I will contact HNMS once the cold spell is over to see what the official record low for Kasos will be. It's not over yet. Maybe tomorrow it will be even lower. Though the possibility is low since the precipitation has already set in in Kasos. In the morning the skies were clear in Kasos that's why it dipped to 2.7C from the NOA station.

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Victor G.
6 minutes ago, Manos33 said:

2.7C is from NOA station. 3C is from HNMS station rounded. Bear in mind that the HNMS station is always a bit warmer than the NOA station in Kasos. Also according to Gouvas (2012) Kasos is 11b zone actually.  

In order to drop a zone you need the average of the absolute minimums per year for DEC-JAN-FEB-MAR to be less than 4.4C.Up until today's value the average of the absolute minimums in Kasos NOA station was 7.2C according to the Gouvas (2012) formula for Greece which made it a zone 11b. You don't drop a zone because of a single record value but you do it with the averages. Now with today's record Kasos will be affected but after March we will know how much...

11b? Wow! I didn't believe you there for one second, but Wikipedia confirms it. Apologies!

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Alicante

I've just seen this thread since it appeared on the front page on the forum. Nope, Rhodes can't stand coconuts without protection. The problem is the lack of heat during winters, not the low temperatures, as 4 months have average highs under 17ºC and January and February are at 15ºC / 59F with only 22ºC / 72F record highs (at least in the Rhodes official station)  and that's a no-no , maybe there are warmer microclimates in the island but that would still be too many months with avg highs under 20ºC. 

There is a magic number that has been proven to work even on "extreme" zones such as the coconut near Salton, California, even if they have 4-5ºC average lows in Dec-Jan they still have 20-21ºC highs on average,  Rhodes record high on February is in fact colder than Salton's average high, California can reach winter temps that are only a dream anywhere in Europe (35-36ºC in January is madness, that will never happen in Europe) and while for them, it's not strange to surpass 30ºC during winters! 
 

1 hour ago, Victor G. said:

Exactly. I mean Kasos was previously in the 11a zone, because the absolute yearly minimums were over 4,4 C. At least that's how I have understood it (could be I'm wrong).

I was wondering if the 3C it recorded this morning (actually 2,7C by the official weather station there, but I think HNMS always rounds up or down to avoid decimal numbers) could bring this average of absolute low temperatures into the 10b zone.

(Cause changing zone seems a big deal to me)

Yes, you are right. The Hardiness Zones are made out of the absolute yearly minimums. 2.7ºC is 10b yet you have to sum up also the data from other years.

I don't know anything about Kasos and it could be 11a (it's at least 10b) yet take account that you can simply calculate a Hardiness Zone. You just sum up the absolute minimums (it would be good if it was at least 20 years of data, 30 years is the ideal amount) and then you split that up for the exact amount of years you've summed up before. 

But if the station is only working since 2010 (to say something, as I don't know) you sum up the lows from 2010 to 2022 , you split that by /13 and you got the result. 

1 hour ago, Manos33 said:

2.7C is from NOA station. 3C is from HNMS station rounded. Bear in mind that the HNMS station is always a bit warmer than the NOA station in Kasos. Also according to Gouvas (2012) Kasos is 11b zone actually.  

In order to drop a zone you need the average of the absolute minimums per year for DEC-JAN-FEB-MAR to be less than 4.4C.Up until today's value the average of the absolute minimums in Kasos NOA station was 7.2C according to the Gouvas (2012) formula for Greece which made it a zone 11b. You don't drop a zone because of a single record value but you do it with the averages. Now with today's record Kasos will be affected but after March we will know how much...

I have no idea about Kasos. But that's not how the Hardiness Zone are calculated. That's wrong and misleading, as it's only boosting up the real Hardiness Zone. 

Not trying to attack you, as I know is not your fault, since you say that is from "Gouvas 2012" but that's not how a Hardiness Zone is calculated. To properly find the HZ you have to sum up the absolute minimums per year and then you split that up for the amount of years you've summed up before. Also, as a better indicator, the data should be at least over the past 20 years, 30 years would be perfect, just as climate normals are. But that "Gouvas formula" is completely wrong as Hardiness Zones aren't calculated making an average of the lowest temps from December to March, they're made calculating the lowest temperature recorded every year. It's how it works in the entire world. 

So you get the absolute minimum recorded every year, and depending on the years you have, you sum it all up and then you split it by the number of years. 

Hardiness Zones were invented by USDA (United States Department of Agriculture) to find suitable areas for crops. It "Gouvas" or whoever that person is made different thresholds then that's not a Hardiness Zone but a mess up of the lowest temperatures during 4 months which is not any factual indicator. USDA is actually neither officially used in Europe, and other countries have their own measurements. But then that's not correct by USDA standards, so using the USDA scale is not useful if it's not properly calculated as USDA requires. 

https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/26361-how-to-calculate-cold-hardiness-zone/

Compelling the lowest temps from December to March don't match up with the USDA Hardiness Zone calculation. 11b is also fiction in Europe, there are very few 11a zones in the warmest microclimates. The warmest places are 10b, 11a in the isolated, warmest microclimate zones. 11b doesn't exist anywhere in the Mediterranean Basin. 

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Alicante
21 hours ago, Victor G. said:

It's crazy. Snow everywhere, in Naxos and Mykonos even on beaches.

We have a house in Dikastika, Attica where the weather is always milder because it's geographically protected from northern winds. It hasn't snowed there for many many years. This morning it snowed like crazy there. RIP bananas, mangoes, papayas and everything else I had.

 

This from a weather station I installed there on Christmas: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/IMARAT9

 

Crazy to have only 1.5ºC / 34.7F right now at 2 PM Greek Zone, as at this hour (normally) high temps are reached. 
Pretty much every sensible subtropical fruit / palm would die in these conditions if these temperatures last too many hours. Snow doesn't help either. 

I hope you guys protected your flora and I just hope it doesn't freeze at least, as a frozen ground would kill off what's already damaged. I hope the Roystoneas will survive!

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Victor G.
Just now, Alicante said:

Crazy to have only 1.5ºC / 34.7F right now at 2 PM Greek Zone, as at this hour (normally) high temps are reached. 
Pretty much every sensible subtropical fruit / palm would die in these conditions if these temperatures last too many hours. Snow doesn't help either. 

I hope you guys protected your flora and I just hope it doesn't freeze at least, as a frozen ground would kill off what's already damaged. I hope the Roystoneas will survive!

Exactly my thought... I mean, it's normal for the area to sometimes not have high winter temperatures above 10-12ºC because it's windy like crazy there. Athens (being a city) gets much higher temps.

But today, everything is buried there under half a meter of snow. (If I would tell anyone it snowed there, they wouldn't believe me).

I live in Germany, so it's a safe assumption all my plants died a slow, agonising death :crying:

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Manos33
4 hours ago, Alicante said:


Not trying to attack you, as I know is not your fault, since you say that is from "Gouvas 2012" but that's not how a Hardiness Zone is calculated. 

Well take it up with the PhD's !

Gouvas has adjusted the USDA Hardiness Zones for Greece. Actually, that's the best work I have seen for Greece's climate in particular when it comes USDA zones. So I am going for it! Right now Kasos is on the threshold of 11b/11a zones according to the Gouvas formula which is specific to Greece. In March we would know for sure if Kasos has dropped from a 11b zone. 

http://hardiness.inforest.gr/intro.html

Also the data from Kasos NOA station is for 13 years which is pretty solid. Obviously not a 30 year period but a great indication of where this is going. 

Edited by Manos33

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Alicante
2 minutes ago, Manos33 said:

Well take it up with the PhD's !

Gouvas has adjusted the USDA Hardiness Zones for Greece. Actually, that's the best work I have seen for Greece's climate in particular when it comes USDA zones. So I am going for it! Right now Kasos is on the threshold of 11b/11a zones according to the Gouvas formula which is specific to Greece. In March we would know for sure if Kasos has dropped from a 11b zone. 

http://hardiness.inforest.gr/intro.html

Also the data from Kasos NOA station is for 13 years which is pretty solid. Obviously not a 30 year period but a great indication of where this is going. 

If it's "adjusted for Greece" that means a different thing rather than the actual official calculation. Kasos doesn't have a real USDA 11b Hardiness Zone. Neither does anywhere in the Mediterranean Basin. As you've said by yourself, the formula uses a minimum mean between the 4 coldest months. Therefore, that's not correct by USDA standards.

Canada for example has another hardiness zone factor, UK has one, Greece doesn't officially but the Gouvas Formula has a mistake. The mistake is using that formula to interpolate it to USDA measurements. I mean, it's very good he has made such a formula for Greece, don't get me wrong, but that's not accepted by USDA Hardiness Zones. 

So what's 11b for Gouvas is 11a for USDA (official measurement) what's 11a for Gouvas is in reality 10b, what's 10b in Gouvas is 10a and so on. 

I guess Kasos is 11a if it's the warmest spot Greece has to offer during winters. By official USDA Hardiness Zones (as we're talking about these) not about unofficial formulas. 

The Hardiness Zone is calculated by the lowest temperature recorded every year. Not by a sum of the lowest temps from Dec to Mar. I mean it's good if someone makes his own classification, but he makes a mistake when he interpolates that to USDA's Hardiness Zones because USDA has one single way of measuring data. If he doesn't measure it as USDA requires, then it's not a USDA Hardiness Zone. You can post here the 13 years of data of that Kasos station and we can calculate the real Hardiness Zone with the official measurement. :greenthumb:

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Alicante

I'm actually just trying to help you to find the real Hardiness Zones based on the official calculation that applies to the entire world. 

If you want to use that "adjusted for Greece Gouvas 2012 method" then USDA HZ zones don't apply, as it's not using the "USDA required" measurement. 

The formula is simple = Yearly Tmn + last 20 years (or as much as possible) / the amount of years from the sum. It's as simple as this. And you'll find the real Hardiness Zone!

Edited by Alicante

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Manos33
1 hour ago, Alicante said:

If it's "adjusted for Greece" that means a different thing rather than the actual official calculation. Kasos doesn't have a real USDA 11b Hardiness Zone. 

What do you mean ''real''. That's how research is conducted and in fact promoted. The Gouvas formula is obviously the best thing out there in terms of the Hardiness Zones for Greece. The fact that other researchers have not adjusted for their climate a scale that is specific to the US is the problematic bit not the Gouvas formula!

Edited by Manos33

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ego
On 1/23/2022 at 6:21 PM, Victor G. said:

Awesome! I don't think it's my house you saw cause my palm are still seedlings. I planted them 1,5 years ago but everything there grows so slowly; I guess the soil is very poor quality.
There are, however a few houses with palm trees there (and bananas but they probably rest in heaven after last night!)

I hope that someday you'll pass by a (sub)tropical garden there, but if this situation keeps up, I sadly don't see it happening :(

 

So we are in the same situation. I only have seedlings too. I hope yours are protected today because it's snowing like there's no tomorrow here today. 

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ego
43 minutes ago, Manos33 said:

What do you mean ''real''. That's how research is conducted and in fact promoted. The Gouvas formula is obviously the best thing out there in terms of the Hardiness Zones for Greece. The fact that other researchers have not adjusted for their climate a scale that is specific to the US is the problematic bit not the Gouvas formula!

Manos read carefully. He said Kasos does not have a real USDA 11b. The keyword here is USDA. Anyway if Kasos was 11b or 11a even, wouldn't it be easy to grow cocos there? 

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Victor G.
30 minutes ago, ego said:

So we are in the same situation. I only have seedlings too. I hope yours are protected today because it's snowing like there's no tomorrow here today. 

Unfortunately, I live in Germany at the moment, so I couldn't protect them :( RIP plants.
In the summer, I even broke the road to install watering systems and stuff, but I guess nobody could predict such a thing..

Best of luck to your plants however! If I pass by Zoumberi in the summer and see young tropical seedlings, I'll knock on your door for a coffee! :P

Edited by Victor G.

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ego
59 minutes ago, Victor G. said:

Unfortunately, I live in Germany at the moment, so I couldn't protect them :( RIP plants.
In the summer, I even broke the road to install watering systems and stuff, but I guess nobody could predict such a thing..

Best of luck to your plants however! If I pass by Zoumberi in the summer and see young tropical seedlings, I'll knock on your door for a coffee! :P

My seedlings are indoors under grow lights. Electricity has died in half of Zoumberi but so far I'm lucky so I still have heating and the grow lights on. 

Yes, you should def visit,  so long as you don't laugh at my horticultural results 

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Victor G.
58 minutes ago, ego said:

My seedlings are indoors under grow lights. Electricity has died in half of Zoumberi but so far I'm lucky so I still have heating and the grow lights on. 

Yes, you should def visit,  so long as you don't laugh at my horticultural results 

Definitely won't laugh, I hope we could plant them outside but the weather seems not to agree with us. I read a research claiming that the low temperatures will gradually rise in the Mediterranean Basin, but considering last winter and this one, maybe you should keep the plant inside!

*Amazing, we had electricity all through the storm (Dikastika is usually the first place to lose electricity, even with little rain sometimes!).

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Manos33
On 1/24/2022 at 8:59 PM, ego said:

Anyway if Kasos was 11b or 11a even, wouldn't it be easy to grow cocos there? 

I doubt anyone has tried. The island has around 1000 permanent inhabitants. 

On an interesting note some coastal areas of Rhodes got settled snow after 35 years during this cold snap. The city of Rhodes however got only moderate snowfall, the first after 35 years. I remind everyone that Rhodes city has never seen settled snow in its history. Don't be fooled by the -4C record. This was recorded in the old HNMS station located at the old airport which was situated in inland Rhodes, very far from the coast and at a much higher altitude.

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UK_Palms

@Manos33 Forgetting irrigation, do you know if coconuts can be grown along the Mediterranean coast of Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Israel etc? If the answer is 'no', then I really can't see them surviving long-term on any Greek Island either. Those places I mentioned are slightly warmer than Kasos and Karpathos year-round and by them just being located further south means less cold penetration when the arctic air pushes into southern Europe like it did recently. Cold waves will lose intensity as they cross the Med into North Africa and the sunlight intensity will also be a bit stronger there too, especially in winter. Not to mention they are slightly warmer in general. 

I don't know whether anyone knows of any coconuts along the African Med or Israeli Med regions? Either people haven't adequately tried them there, or they get killed back at least once every decade or so...? I know a guy in the coastal region of Tel-Aviv, Israel had coconuts die on him overwinter. Stelios has a great specimen on Cyprus, however it takes a beating every other winter and he is no longer protecting it anymore either. I suspect the Cypriot coco will be on borrowed time, since there will be a bad winter at some point. I think actual cocos may only be long-term along the Red Sea coasts of Egypt and Israel. Southeast Med regions may get get a decade out of one unprotected, perhaps? 

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Manos33
2 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

@Manos33 Forgetting irrigation, do you know if coconuts can be grown along the Mediterranean coast of Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Israel etc? 

It's a good question. I have no idea. I remember reading a report about cocos doing pretty well in Eilat in the Red Sea. However I checked the stats for Alexandria, Limassol and Tel Aviv and all of these areas have significantly lower average minimums temperatures in the winter compared to Kasos.  But really I have no idea if cocos could survive there...

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ego
8 hours ago, Manos33 said:

I doubt anyone has tried. The island has around 1000 permanent inhabitants. 

My question was rhetorical to be honest; for some reason I am pretty sure it would be impossible. Even if nobody had tried in Kasos, someone would have tried in Cyprus or in Malta etc. We would def know. I like that you are optimistic though and I hope I am wrong. With all this enthusiasm for coconut trees I wonder why nobody has managed to make a cold tolerant hybrid. I bet it's a matter of time. One day we will have GM coconut trees in Attica I'm sure :)

Actually I know a guy with the experience to do the job. @Phoenikakias save us! Go get some Indian coconuts and start experimenting. I bet you'll become rich if you make it :D

Edited by ego
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ego

..another idea: Let's plant a coconut tree in Kasos this spring; anyone going that way? :D 

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Victor G.
30 minutes ago, ego said:

..another idea: Let's plant a coconut tree in Kasos this spring; anyone going that way? :D 

You'll have to wake up the interest of the local people, which probably won't happen :P
It would be awesome though, if somebody tried it.

I'm gonna lay off the tropical plants for a while and see how it goes. I mean last winter was already more snow than usual and this winter was heavy. I want to see the next 2-3 winters, cause I fear it's gonna get worse (hope to God not!)

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ego
1 minute ago, Victor G. said:

You'll have to wake up the interest of the local people, which probably won't happen :P
It would be awesome though, if somebody tried it.

I'm gonna lay off the tropical plants for a while and see how it goes. I mean last winter was already more snow than usual and this winter was heavy. I want to see the next 2-3 winters, cause I fear it's gonna get worse (hope to God not!)

Temperatures here aren't that low though. The worst was 2C where I live and right now it is 10C. I bet some fleece and Christmas lights would keep most palms alive?

To wake up the local's interest we would have to collect money among us and pay someone I guess to be a p/t gardener. 

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Victor G.
14 minutes ago, ego said:

Temperatures here aren't that low though. The worst was 2C where I live and right now it is 10C. I bet some fleece and Christmas lights would keep most palms alive?

Hmm it was a strange cold wave. Here's my speculation (but, of course, I could be wrong, I'm no expert).

In Dikastika, it dropped to 0,7C for a few hours one day, which according to locals, is very low for the area (not record breaking, just very low). We also had 30cm of snow, which is insane for the specific area.

Nea Makri and Rafina, were less hit by low temperatures and snow (I think it's usually the other way around).

While the low temperatures in Attica weren't that extreme, the high temperatures were way to low. In our region, as well as in Athens, the high temperatures didn't exceed 3-5C for 2 (or even 3) days in a row, which by itself is unsual.

Also, many areas came (more or less) close to their all-time absolute low (Cyclades and Dodecanese), while Kasos broke it's absolute minimum value by more than 1C difference.

Lastly, it snowed in places that haven't seen snow in many, many years, like Naxos, Paros, Santorini, Rhodos, etc.

 

It could be that this was an isolated incident and that we're headed for warmer winters, or it could mean that we're screwed in the future. I've read a lot of controversial researches that take opposite sides. And again, I'm no expert, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong; after all we're here to discuss!

Edited by Victor G.
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Victor G.
14 minutes ago, ego said:

To wake up the local's interest we would have to collect money among us and pay someone I guess to be a p/t gardener. 

That's a good idea! Although we would have to look after the plants year-round, so it's a normal full-time job.

Maybe I'll move to Kasos in the future, any good beaches there? :D

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ego

This type of cold is def the exception. Indeed it did happen twice in two years but normally there is no snow on the coast. 

Kasos must be beautiful and unspoiled but def too quiet in the winter. Personally I wouldn't mind.  Think about it: the only coconut in Europe!

 

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Phoenikakias
21 minutes ago, ego said:

This type of cold is def the exception. Indeed it did happen twice in two years but normally there is no snow on the coast. 

Kasos must be beautiful and unspoiled but def too quiet in the winter. Personally I wouldn't mind.  Think about it: the only coconut in Europe!

 

Sorry you come second if not third. There is a already a trunking specimen in Malaga and if you consider Malta and Cyprus island part of the European continent, then there is also there incidents of up to now successful cultivation.  We have not heard yet news from Maurice in Rhodes.

https://foro.infojardin.com/threads/cocotero-en-malaga.114833/

Hasta la vista!

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ego

The one in Malaga is in a pot! Anyway, one of the only 5 coconuts in Europe.

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Aceraceae
3 hours ago, Phoenikakias said:

Sorry you come second if not third. There is a already a trunking specimen in Malaga and if you consider Malta and Cyprus island part of the European continent, then there is also there incidents of up to now successful cultivation.  We have not heard yet news from Maurice in Rhodes.

https://foro.infojardin.com/threads/cocotero-en-malaga.114833/

Hasta la vista!

Yeah I thought Malaga was a royal. It has chillier winters than Israel or other Mediterranean islands. The only plus of Malaga over Haifa or Tel Aviv might be less mid-winter rain. Right now it's been rainy and cool in eastern Mediterranean. 

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ego
2 minutes ago, Aceraceae said:

Yeah I thought Malaga was a royal. It has chillier winters than Israel or other Mediterranean islands. The only plus of Malaga over Haifa or Tel Aviv might be less mid-winter rain. Right now it's been rainy and cool in eastern Mediterranean. 

I think the most important factor here is not lattitude but microclimates and soil. That coconut in Cyprus and perhaps in Malaga have probably found a favourable microclimate and very well draining soil. Those are more important than the exact geographical location.

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Phoenikakias
27 minutes ago, Aceraceae said:

Yeah I thought Malaga was a royal. It has chillier winters than Israel or other Mediterranean islands. The only plus of Malaga over Haifa or Tel Aviv might be less mid-winter rain. Right now it's been rainy and cool in eastern Mediterranean. 

Record snowfall (30 cm) in Jerusalem today.

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ego
26 minutes ago, Phoenikakias said:

Record snowfall (30 cm) in Jerusalem today.

Snow is common in Jerusalem which has a totally different climate from Tel Aviv or Haifa. Israelis also believe people from Jerusalem are colder :P

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Aceraceae

Jerusalem is well inland from the sea and half a mile in elevation. At least 5 degrees F colder than the coast over the entire forecast presently. Still chilly and rainy in Haifa and Tel Aviv tho. 

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Aceraceae

In general looking at all marginal Mediterranean/US-South Texas, central FL and desert/ other marginal locations, cocos seems to require the coldest months be near 60 F /15 C or higher mean temp, and that the year should be over 70 degrees F / 21 C, where Lindos is about 69 C annual temp, with a lot of sun. However, it should also not be the wet season during the coldest months as it is in the Mediterranean. Southern Florida averages over 65 F/18 C in the coldest month (Koppen tropical climate benchmark) and about 77 F/25C for the year. 

The Newport Beach coconut surviving for many years may just be the most shocking of all, as that climate chart falls well short in winter coldness and year round cool temps. 

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