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Can cocos survive in Lindos,Rhodes in Greece?

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Amory1987

Hello everybody! I'm not a palm grower but I am a lover of these plants. I wanted to join the discussion as Rhodes is one of my favorite destinations in Greece and I've spent some time in Lindos in the past.  So I read with great interest your input on the likelihood of successfully growing cocos in the warmest areas of the Dodecanese.  

Some of you mentioned Lindos' extremely high mean annual temperature (for European standards) and the fact that it would allow for some of the most vulnerable tropical plants to survive at an unheard latitude. I just wanted to point out that the 22° a year value reached by Lindos is mostly due to the extremely high temperature averages scored in the summer months, where daytime values consistently sit at or above 35°, and nighttime lows never descend below 23-24°. These values have huge repercussions on the final, yearly average of Lindos. 
There is a town in south-eastern Turkey called Cizre. It's annual average is 19.5° which would lead many to think that it's a mild place year-round. Well, it turns out that the average temperature for January is 6.9° and even in April it's just 17.1°. The high daily annual mean is due to the fact that July and August have an average high of 41°(!!) and September of 37° (!!). But still, you wouldn't be able to grow anything tropical there. My point being that the annual mean temperature is not the main indicator in deciding whether a certain place is suitable for cocos or not.

My personal experience in Lindos was that of an extremely hot and pretty dry place. I was there in the early summer and I remember waking up at 7am in the morning, walking out onto my balcony and looking at the rising sun. The heat was so strong and dry that I felt it was almost burning my skin. I had felt that kind of heat so early in the morning only in the Tunisian desert a few years before. But I really doubt that the winter temperatures are warm enough, even in a place such as that one.

I feel like Europe's southern fringe sits too high by a couple of parallels to make the cut. If there was some island just 200 km south-east of Crete or Kasos, the combination of latitude, climate, sun-exposure as well as shelter form northernly cold systems, would allow for us to grow cocos on it.

I would be happy to hear your opinions!

On a side note - I don't know if it has been mentioned before, but there is a beach in Crete (Vai beach) which is the only beach in Europe with a spontaneous, native palm forests of Phoenix theophrasti. 

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Victor G.
2 hours ago, Amory1987 said:

Hello everybody! I'm not a palm grower but I am a lover of these plants. I wanted to join the discussion as Rhodes is one of my favorite destinations in Greece and I've spent some time in Lindos in the past.  So I read with great interest your input on the likelihood of successfully growing cocos in the warmest areas of the Dodecanese.  

Some of you mentioned Lindos' extremely high mean annual temperature (for European standards) and the fact that it would allow for some of the most vulnerable tropical plants to survive at an unheard latitude. I just wanted to point out that the 22° a year value reached by Lindos is mostly due to the extremely high temperature averages scored in the summer months, where daytime values consistently sit at or above 35°, and nighttime lows never descend below 23-24°. These values have huge repercussions on the final, yearly average of Lindos. 
There is a town in south-eastern Turkey called Cizre. It's annual average is 19.5° which would lead many to think that it's a mild place year-round. Well, it turns out that the average temperature for January is 6.9° and even in April it's just 17.1°. The high daily annual mean is due to the fact that July and August have an average high of 41°(!!) and September of 37° (!!). But still, you wouldn't be able to grow anything tropical there. My point being that the annual mean temperature is not the main indicator in deciding whether a certain place is suitable for cocos or not.

My personal experience in Lindos was that of an extremely hot and pretty dry place. I was there in the early summer and I remember waking up at 7am in the morning, walking out onto my balcony and looking at the rising sun. The heat was so strong and dry that I felt it was almost burning my skin. I had felt that kind of heat so early in the morning only in the Tunisian desert a few years before. But I really doubt that the winter temperatures are warm enough, even in a place such as that one.

I feel like Europe's southern fringe sits too high by a couple of parallels to make the cut. If there was some island just 200 km south-east of Crete or Kasos, the combination of latitude, climate, sun-exposure as well as shelter form northernly cold systems, would allow for us to grow cocos on it.

I would be happy to hear your opinions!

On a side note - I don't know if it has been mentioned before, but there is a beach in Crete (Vai beach) which is the only beach in Europe with a spontaneous, native palm forests of Phoenix theophrasti. 

I agree with what you said.

It's exactly what we've been discussing here (but the thread has become probably too big for someone to read).

It's more of an experiment I would say. Like "let's plant and see what happens". We have been trying to figure out the best places to plant coconuts in Europe and Lindos is in the top 10 definitely. But that doesn't mean that it would be successful.

However, since I was in Rhodes a month ago, the biggest problem isn't the weather - it's the lack of interest. Rhodes is a highly touristic island and the locals seem to have based their whole economy into this concept. Surely, there are people who care for the island, I just didn't see any. But in general, Greeks have zero interest for tropical plants, so it's an experiment that probably won't ever happen.

And I agree that the yearly average doesn't say anything about the place's climate. Lindos has a slightly higher annual average than some places in the coastal Canary islands, however their winter with our winter is a world apart.

Annual average is mostly used to determine how a place is affected by climate change and urban heat islands. But it's a very lousy tool when it comes to planting tropical species

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Manos33
2 hours ago, Amory1987 said:

Some of you mentioned Lindos' extremely high mean annual temperature (for European standards) and the fact that it would allow for some of the most vulnerable tropical plants to survive at an unheard latitude. I just wanted to point out that the 22° a year value reached by Lindos is mostly due to the extremely high temperature averages scored in the summer months, where daytime values consistently sit at or above 35°, and nighttime lows never descend below 23-24°. These values have huge repercussions on the final, yearly average of Lindos. 
There is a town in south-eastern Turkey called Cizre. It's annual average is 19.5° which would lead many to think that it's a mild place year-round. Well, it turns out that the average temperature for January is 6.9° and even in April it's just 17.1°. The high daily annual mean is due to the fact that July and August have an average high of 41°(!!) and September of 37° (!!). But still, you wouldn't be able to grow anything tropical there. My point being that the annual mean temperature is not the main indicator in deciding whether a certain place is suitable for cocos or not.

 

Hello and welcome! Yep you are right, however no one is saying that Lindos is a perfect place for cocos only based on the incredible by European standards 22C average annual T.

Lindos still has some pretty mild winters. It has a January mean T of over 13C and Feb mean T close to 15C. Ok Kasos has much milder winters and in my opinion it is the best  candidate for growing cocos in Greece but Lindos also worths a shot and we will never know unless we actually try...

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Manos33
40 minutes ago, Victor G. said:

But in general, Greeks have zero interest for tropical plants, so it's an experiment that probably won't ever happen.

Yep thats the sad part, however we are here to try and spike or galvanize the interest of some people who see tropical plants in Greece favourably. If we continue to be vocal about it regardless of the tiring pessimistic voices then stats will slowly turn in our favour. 

But then again thats me talking! An eternal optimist :D

Edited by Manos33

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Manos33
On 2/8/2022 at 7:34 AM, Manos33 said:

Confirmation from Greece's Climate Atlas that SE Rhodes alongside South Crete  and W/S Peloponnese have the highest mean annual sunshine in the country with over 3.100 hours per year.  The data below are only limited to HNMS Campbell-Stokes sunshine stations scattered throughout the country. There are a few more sunshine stations from NOA as well but they are fewer compared to the HNMS sunshine stations.

The pdf titled ''Το κλίμα της Ελλάδας'' (Greece's climate) is found in the HNMS Climate Atlas link below but unfortunately it is only in Greek.

http://climatlas.hnms.gr/sdi/

Here is the relevant screenshot

1299726013_Screenshot2022-02-08at7_28_34AM.png.d2c85242d3b4b7ce4c055cc32172b1c3.png

Just a quick follow up post which might be of interest to some.

I checked a bit better the Climate Atlas published by Greece's Met Office (HNMS) and I noticed that the average annual sunshine around Lindos is actually a bit higher at around 3173 hours.

The highest average sunshine I could find in Greece according to the HNMS Climate Atlas is a stunning average of 3257 hours of sunshine per year in SE Crete. 

 

878881489_3173hoursofsunshineRhodes.thumb.png.fb553798394b184d876dbcc3dfdc5167.png1342569342_3257hoursofsunshine2.thumb.png.81032c8bf1bf492c2b7455e7a4913899.png

 

Edited by Manos33

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