Jump to content
Collectorpalms

Texas Queens Palms After Freeze 2021

Recommended Posts

Collectorpalms

These are alive. Mine had made it though 14.5 but are dead. Looks like 2 in Sugar Land lived through low 10s. 
 

He is using Silver Queen and Litoralis as the same. They are not, Also how does he know what they? He should state their background. 
Most likely they are what was termed silver queens. If they are 30 years old, they may have been from offspring that survived in the RGV, Laredo or north Florida. Those were the silver queens. I had those, I had plants purchased from the RGV. My Litoralis were recent introduction ( Late 2000s) and I got my seedling from Jeff Marcus. I still have a 15 gallon Litoralis, and I have seeds from this past fall from my Silver Queen,  I hope to germinate these as third generation “Silver Queens “ they were a lot like these in video.

 

Edited by Collectorpalms
  • Like 4
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xenon

Wow I can't believe it! That's amazing considering some of the dead robusta in the vicinity 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collectorpalms
18 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Wow I can't believe it! That's amazing considering some of the dead robusta in the vicinity 

 

 I dunno It could have been up to 14F there and not 12F. Or What are the chance they had heat tape and wrapped? I saw the Pygmy and thought it was a new install. But looks like it Is ever so lightly leaf tip burned, maybe they were somewhat protected. They also have a rare filifera-leaning Filibusta alive. I say rare, because 90 percent of what is in houston is the non hardy washingtonia mutt. Looks like a fried but not dead Bismarckia at the bottom of ladder. 


Just saw a mule in video too that looks good, Slight burn, can’t tell if it’s a new install or if it was protected. another mule by house. New installs or great protection. 

Edited by Collectorpalms

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xenon
14 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

 I dunno It could have been up to 14F there and not 12F. Or What are the chance they had heat tape and wrapped? I saw the Pygmy and thought it was a new install. But looks like it Is ever so lightly leaf tip burned, maybe they were somewhat protected. They also have a rare filifera-leaning Filibusta alive. I say rare, because 90 percent of what is in houston is the non hardy washingtonia mutt. Looks like a fried but not dead Bismarckia at the bottom of ladder. 

The pygmy looks like a new install (along with all of the other green palms). I wouldn't go as far to say the filifera leaning look (i.e even non-tapered, thick columnar trunk lacking an enlarged base) is rare but it's atypical. But now they really stand out because they are the farthest along in pushing green leaves. 

Unprotected Bismarckia look like that too...can't tell if they are trying to live or just very slow to look dead dead. 

Edited by Xenon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collectorpalms
7 minutes ago, Xenon said:

The pygmy looks like a new install (along with all of the other green palms). I wouldn't go as far to say the filifera leaning look (i.e even non-tapered, thick columnar trunk lacking an enlarged base) is rare but it's atypical. But now they really stand out because they are the farthest along in pushing green leaves. 

Unprotected Bismarckia look like that too...can't tell if they are trying to live or just very slow to look dead dead. 

Why is one of the Pygmy date trunks look like it fell over?

The years I was working in Houston everything that was being planted was a mutt. The percentage of filifera and filifera leaning hybrids was much higher when I first got to texas, everything planted since is the typical mutt. Not really a pure robusta, but something fast that grows well in humidity but without the hardiness of filifera.

Edited by Collectorpalms

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fukuoka Scott

Howdy! Newbie here. I’ve lived in Fukuoka, Japan (I’ve been posting on the Growing on the Edge forums for quite a few years if there are any other overlappers, maybe Stan/Bay Area Tropics is here?) for about 26 years but am a native of Texas and so have been following the freeze damage/recovery threads with interest. I lost a lot of tender plants at my Grandma’s place in the DFW area in 1989, and at home in El Paso we watched our robustas and CIDPs defoliate almost every winter in the 80s, so I’ve been a little dismayed and nervous over the decades as people in Texas have continued to try to zone push. I knew another ‘89 would come eventually, but of course a lot of folks think 30 years of the palms they love makes it worthwhile - I do get it but don’t think I could stand a total wipeout. Anyhoo I’m really glad to see the happy survival stories like this. Fukuoka is a cool 9b in winter but has rather hot and humid summers. This winter we had an unusually cold and long freeze of about 48 hours but we bottomed out at about 29F so I didn’t lose any palms. Syagrus is bulletproof here as are all Washingtonias, Arenga engleri and most Phoenix spp, but I’m trying my hand with Howea forsteriana and Archontophoenix cunninghamiana (pictured, after the freeze), various tree ferns and a number of other kinda marginal plants in my little garden. Will try to share some more pics in the near future. Nice to meet you!

75A4AA99-0181-4750-8D34-6C749ABAF798.jpeg

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Meangreen94z

What other Syagrus is “Silver Queen” attached to? I see a lot of nurseries online reference Litoralis as that 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jimhardy

Looks like the same self proclaimed "expert" that says you can't trunk cut palms.

I just checked and it is the same guy....not very bright

Edited by Jimhardy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collectorpalms
19 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

What other Syagrus is “Silver Queen” attached to? I see a lot of nurseries online reference Litoralis as that 

Two are not the same. Silver queens were given that name to some Queens that survived the 1980s. I don’t doubt if these were planted “30” years ago they come from plants that obviously did survive the 1980s.  They tend to be very robust and that is what helps them survive the cold, but I did have one that was much more leaf hardy than the others. 

Again, Litoralis come straight from South America. They seem to be fast Growers but may be thinner trunked. I had several planted that burned in 2011. I was disappointed that they defoliated after 17F. I decided to remove them so they were easy to remove before they got too big. Go figure the mules I replaced them with died anyhow. Not a single mules protected or not has moved.

Edited by Collectorpalms
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collectorpalms
9 minutes ago, Jimhardy said:

Looks like the same self proclaimed "expert" that says you can't trunk cut palms.

I just checked and it is the same guy....not very bright

He is probably is right just about as much as he is wrong about trunk cutting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Meangreen94z

He’s a salesman for overpriced palms in a middle to upper class suburb(sugar land) of Houston. Several years ago I drove over to their business front. Which was a house on an acre or so lot. They only had a few of each palm variety they sell on site, most seemed to have an extra “0” attached at the end of the price. The majority of their palms are stored at a field growing operation from what I understand. I’m sure he targets people with new homes or new pools that don’t know much but want to 2-3-4 palms installed and be done with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
necturus

Yup, he is not who I would look to for advice about palms in Houston. I do think he refuses to sell CIDPs which is smart, but I bet that's more a business decision than genuine good advice. He is probably a little more trustworthy than Moon Valley/Big Tex. 

Also, not sure exactly where in Sugar Land he is in the video, but I doubt it went below 14 there. I go to Sugar Land almost every weekend and haven't seen any queens pushing growth. I did see the queen behind Buchanan's in the Heights that was defoliated but blooming last week.

Scott, welcome! I've seen and enjoyed your posts over on GOTE.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jimhardy
3 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

He is probably is right just about as much as he is wrong about trunk cutting.

He says it doesn't work period so....that makes him 100% wrong all the time but

only in regard to what he is talking about at the time.:floor:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xenon

He is also the guy that thought every single collapsed "robusta" was 100% "dead"...

But the queens do look legit imo, note the post freeze photo with the defoliated filifera dominant hybrid 

Edited by Xenon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jimhardy

yeah...he's this guy.:lol:

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Keys6505

I bought most of my trees from him when I did my backyard last year.  I didn't have any complaints and they had more variety than anyone else (I got my Rupicola, A. Englerii, D. Antarctica tree fern, etc from them).  He wasn't pushy at all and was cool when I told him I was going to buy my CIDP from Moon because his were too big.  After 3 months he came back out, fertilized everything and walked me through each tree and explained what he was looking for, etc.   Maybe I just got lucky, I seem to have had good experiences with all of the local palm guys I've dealt with (palm professionals, moon, TCHP) but they get killed on this forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collectorpalms

Regardless of all the background noise...

 

these Queens survived! 

Edited by Collectorpalms
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Xenon

Thanks for the tip @necturus

behold....a living Houston queen palm :lol:

Couldn't believe my eyes 

20210423_150144.thumb.jpg.783f07ed7549f08c36029693fc67fa03.jpg20210423_150446.thumb.jpg.3ee01d941a9bc5a68d18d5420dea5df5.jpg

 

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collectorpalms

A few older ones could have survived 14F based on my experience. But if they were not trunk wrapped they are going to have significant pseudo bark damage show up in a couple years.

If you are getting 85% of Robustas living in an area, queens should be alive too.

i had a run of the mill Walmart queen that always fried always come back even at 14.5 * eventually it died the following next winter after only 27. It just couldn’t absorb proper nutrients.

Edited by Collectorpalms

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fukuoka Scott
1 hour ago, Collectorpalms said:

Regardless of all the background noise...

 

these Queens survived! 

Sorry, wasn’t sure of the best place to do a quick self- intro!

Edited by Fukuoka Scott
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collectorpalms
46 minutes ago, Fukuoka Scott said:

Sorry, wasn’t sure of the best place to do a quick self- intro!

You can start a new thread on something your interested in sharing related to palms! 
like tell us about Your memories of the 1980s in Texas for example. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NBTX11

I don't think this is that big of a deal.  I've seen regular old queens survive 13-16F before several times.  In 2011 the official low was 16 but outlying areas got a lot colder than that, and I saw several queens survive in New Braunfels.  I saw a couple survive way outside of town in the middle of the country. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collectorpalms

New Braunfels Weather office fell to 19*F in 2011 with a previous day high of 28.

Sugar Land in 2021 had a high of 24 followed by a low of 14. 


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NBTX11
2 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

New Braunfels Weather office fell to 19*F in 2011 with a previous day high of 28.

Sugar Land in 2021 had a high of 24 followed by a low of 14. 


 

OK maybe it was 2010 then.  I don't remember which year, I know both years were cold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collectorpalms

San Antonio did go to 16F in Jan 2010. All days above freezing though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NBTX11
Just now, Collectorpalms said:

San Antonio did go to 16F in Jan 2010. All days above freezing though

That was the year then.  I saw many queens survive both 2010 and 2011 in New Braunfels from at the very least back to back yearly lows of 16 and 19.  And I contend some of them likely saw lower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collectorpalms
1 hour ago, NBTX11 said:

That was the year then.  I saw many queens survive both 2010 and 2011 in New Braunfels from at the very least back to back yearly lows of 16 and 19.  And I contend some of them likely saw lower.

Any Queens alive in Galveston or Corpus Christi? 

The ones at Moody Gardens that were protected from the wind are likely survivors. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Meangreen94z
17 hours ago, Fukuoka Scott said:

Howdy! Newbie here. I’ve lived in Fukuoka, Japan (I’ve been posting on the Growing on the Edge forums for quite a few years if there are any other overlappers, maybe Stan/Bay Area Tropics is here?) for about 26 years but am a native of Texas and so have been following the freeze damage/recovery threads with interest. I lost a lot of tender plants at my Grandma’s place in the DFW area in 1989, and at home in El Paso we watched our robustas and CIDPs defoliate almost every winter in the 80s, so I’ve been a little dismayed and nervous over the decades as people in Texas have continued to try to zone push. I knew another ‘89 would come eventually, but of course a lot of folks think 30 years of the palms they love makes it worthwhile - I do get it but don’t think I could stand a total wipeout. Anyhoo I’m really glad to see the happy survival stories like this. Fukuoka is a cool 9b in winter but has rather hot and humid summers. This winter we had an unusually cold and long freeze of about 48 hours but we bottomed out at about 29F so I didn’t lose any palms. Syagrus is bulletproof here as are all Washingtonias, Arenga engleri and most Phoenix spp, but I’m trying my hand with Howea forsteriana and Archontophoenix cunninghamiana (pictured, after the freeze), various tree ferns and a number of other kinda marginal plants in my little garden. Will try to share some more pics in the near future. Nice to meet you!

75A4AA99-0181-4750-8D34-6C749ABAF798.jpeg

Good to see you on here. Yeah, post up old info/pictures if you have it. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fukuoka Scott
20 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

These are alive. Mine had made it though 14.5 but are dead. Looks like 2 in Sugar Land lived through low 10s. 
 

He is using Silver Queen and Litoralis as the same. They are not, Also how does he know what they? He should state their background. 
Most likely they are what was termed silver queens. If they are 30 years old, they may have been from offspring that survived in the RGV, Laredo or north Florida. Those were the silver queens. I had those, I had plants purchased from the RGV. My Litoralis were recent introduction ( Late 2000s) and I got my seedling from Jeff Marcus. I still have a 15 gallon Litoralis, and I have seeds from this past fall from my Silver Queen,  I hope to germinate these as third generation “Silver Queens “ they were a lot like these in video.

 

By the way the view from the top of that ladder was giving me heart palpitations. And that queen is nothing compared to the crazy “sky duster” robustas you see all over Los Angeles. My hat is off to palm tree trimmers for doing this terrifying work!

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collectorpalms
41 minutes ago, Fukuoka Scott said:

By the way the view from the top of that ladder was giving me heart palpitations. And that queen is nothing compared to the crazy “sky duster” robustas you see all over Los Angeles. My hat is off to palm tree trimmers for doing this terrifying work!

I have watched a few videos of trimming palms very high up that made me nauseous from the height and trimmers hanging by a thread. I can handle the top of my ladder and even that is scary knowing it could kill me if I am not extremely careful. 

right now I just have a graveyard of palm trunks. 

Edited by Collectorpalms
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Paradise Found
13 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

right now I just have a graveyard of palm trunks. 

Sorry for your garden disaster! 

I had a jubaea 8' tall that died in a bad winter and the whole center came out, poured peroxide down and waited and nothing happen that summer.  Two years later it grew back three new leaves only to die again in a bad winter. I sure miss that palm.

 I hope you have good luck with your palms and the others too. It's a shame to put all that work in and enjoyment only to have it taken away.  You guys can rebuild and I hope everyone continues zone pushing.  I love seeing all the stuff you guys and gals grow. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fisherking

Newbie here, on Padre Island. I haven’t seen any Queens that have survived either here or in town (Corpus Christi) yet...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NBTX11
10 minutes ago, Fisherking said:

Newbie here, on Padre Island. I haven’t seen any Queens that have survived either here or in town (Corpus Christi) yet...

How do the Washingtonia Robusta everywhere look?  Percentage of deaths?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
joetx
On 4/24/2021 at 6:05 PM, NBTX11 said:

How do the Washingtonia Robusta everywhere look?  Percentage of deaths?  

I was out there last weekend. Looked like most were pushing new growth. The ones that were trimmed early seemed to be doing better, but hard to tell with the burnt fronds. I would say about 1/8 have yet to push new growth. Almost all of the new dates along cinnamon shore south look dead, but the more mature ones are all pushing new growth. Sorry no pics :( 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
richtrav
On 4/24/2021 at 5:54 PM, Fisherking said:

Newbie here, on Padre Island. I haven’t seen any Queens that have survived either here or in town (Corpus Christi) yet...

I was driving around Shoreline earlier this month and spotted a pair that may have some life in them. Not sure exactly where it was, but it was a block or so back from the bay. They were on the south side of the house, that probably didn’t hurt.

Corpus queen.JPG

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Collectorpalms
4 hours ago, richtrav said:

I was driving around Shoreline earlier this month and spotted a pair that may have some life in them. Not sure exactly where it was, but it was a block or so back from the bay. They were on the south side of the house, that probably didn’t hurt.

Corpus queen.JPG

Thanks for the post.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wclaburn

I personally have worked on the Silver Queens in the video. We sprayed the canopies with a copper based fungicide 2 weeks prior to the freeze to kill the ice nucleating bacteria and 2 days before the freeze we sprayed the canopies with Leaf Guardian freeze protection spray. We had a sustained low of 14F for 24 hours with nighttime dips around 10F. We are hearing and seeing good stories of Silver Queens, south of I-10, rebounding with no trunk bleeding.  At our nursery, just 2 miles south of where the video was taken, we did not lose a single Silver Queen. We lost about 10% of our inventory and that's it. We sprayed all our Silver Queens with Leaf Guardian and laid them down. We covered them in a thick felt with plastic tarps over the felt. We were able to avoid any cosmetic damage due to the measures we took. 1 week after the storm, we were the only nursery in town that had any palm trees for sale. I'm not trying to plug our company, I'm just letting the doubters know that the proof is in the pudding. Everyone is an expert until it's time to do some expert stuff. Y'all have a great day.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
smatofu
6 hours ago, Wclaburn said:

 I'm just letting the doubters know that the proof is in the pudding. Everyone is an expert until it's time to do some expert stuff. Y'all have a great day.

There is no question that wrapping in blankets or any heavy fabric or insulation helps. I did a similar thing and I believe it saved my palms. If heating could be added, then it is even better.

I am wondering how affective spraying is. The most sensitive palm's areas are meristem and spear, but there is no way to deliver any medication to those areas. With 0 F temperature in my area, fronds on my palms would have been gone no matter what I had done. 

S.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
necturus
On 7/12/2021 at 10:35 AM, Wclaburn said:

I personally have worked on the Silver Queens in the video. We sprayed the canopies with a copper based fungicide 2 weeks prior to the freeze to kill the ice nucleating bacteria and 2 days before the freeze we sprayed the canopies with Leaf Guardian freeze protection spray. We had a sustained low of 14F for 24 hours with nighttime dips around 10F. We are hearing and seeing good stories of Silver Queens, south of I-10, rebounding with no trunk bleeding.  At our nursery, just 2 miles south of where the video was taken, we did not lose a single Silver Queen. We lost about 10% of our inventory and that's it. We sprayed all our Silver Queens with Leaf Guardian and laid them down. We covered them in a thick felt with plastic tarps over the felt. We were able to avoid any cosmetic damage due to the measures we took. 1 week after the storm, we were the only nursery in town that had any palm trees for sale. I'm not trying to plug our company, I'm just letting the doubters know that the proof is in the pudding. Everyone is an expert until it's time to do some expert stuff. Y'all have a great day.

Most of us can't lay our palms down on the ground, but it's a good idea for large pot bound plants.

Are you the owner of Palm Professionals? If so, didn't you have a traveler's palm? How'd it fare? Thought I saw that on Facebook. 

What's your schedule @Wclaburn for spraying queens over the winter?

There's a lot of dead "Silver Queens" and regular queens all over Houston. I've definitely seen a few potential survivors, but they're mostly dead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wclaburn

I am not the owner, just an employee.  Unfortunately the Traveller Palms did not make it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...