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MSX

CIDP overpotted or not?

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MSX

Hello Palmtalkers! This CIDP is my first palm grown in a container that will be a nice addition to a patio, with the option of moving it inside in the winter (7B/8A zone). I need your expertise in the following question - I got this CIDP a month ago in a 3 gallon (12 litres) nursery pot. The top diameter of the nursery pot was 28cm x 26cm height so the root ball is. The roots were growing out of the bottom of the pot and lifting the entire palm right out of the pot, so I repotted it in a new 17 gallon (65 litres) plastic pot. The new pot is 50cm wide and about 22cm (8.6 inches) larger across than the nursery pot and approximately 13cm (5 inches) deeper than the root ball of the palm. I drilled 9 draining holes at the bottom of the new big pot 1 inch wide each. Soil mixture - 3 parts of soil, 1 part organic matter (aged manure) and 1 part of river sand.

I followed the palm planting instruction from here (Wilson Bros Gardens. How To Plant A Palm In Container): "Choose a container that is large enough to allow for 2 to 3 years of growth before shifting up to a larger size container. This might mean your planting pot would be 6-8 inches or more in width than the root ball of your plant. ". That's what I did - my current pot is now 8-8.6 inches more in width than the root ball of my CIDP, however now I found out some other sites suggest the new pot should be 2-5 inches wider than the root ball to prevent root rot, etc. I'm confused now by this contradictory information and I don't know what to do now - should I leave it like this or should I repot it again in a smaller sized pot now? Thanks

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Edited by MSX
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lzorrito

I would say yes, you've overpotted it. But as you've "the option of moving it inside in the winter (7B/8A zone)", it will probably handle it easily, those are tough palms. CIDP, when potted, usually tend to lift off the pot because of strong root growth towards the bottom of the pot and that pushs the palm tree up, it's a typical behavior. They like, and need, deep pots, wider and shalow ones should be avoid. Is it possible for you to get a narrowest and deepest pot than that one?

Edited by lzorrito
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Steve Mac

I usually agree with Luis and most people here will, but my experience if different. 

I think it will be fine. I have not had problems using big pots and all of my Date palms have had fairly aggressive roots. 

My bizzy was not bothered by it's big pot either.  But I grow all of my plants with the intention of eventually planting them in the ground.

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four years later.

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lzorrito
12 hours ago, gtsteve said:

I usually agree with Luis and most people here will, but my experience if different. 

I think it will be fine. I have not had problems using big pots and all of my Date palms have had fairly aggressive roots. 

My bizzy was not bothered by it's big pot either.  But I grow all of my plants with the intention of eventually planting them in the ground.

Quite right, Steve, thanks for the compliment, but I think it is just a matter of semantics. Both our climates are totally different from his, and that does mean a lot when growing potted palms. I also never had issues with my potted Bizzies, until last winter, which was the most humid and coldest winter we had in fifteen years...Murphy's law. Despite that, never had any kind of issues with my potted Phoenix. According to MSX, his continental climate is rated 7B/8A zone, and based on that, I recommended other pot shape and depth, which may even have more volume capacity than the current one, aiming optimal growth conditions according to the specificities of the root system.

Btw, Steve, is that Bizzy of yours a Mayotte sps? It looks so green...

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MSX
19 hours ago, lzorrito said:

I would say yes, you've overpotted it. But as you've "the option of moving it inside in the winter (7B/8A zone)", it will probably handle it easily, those are tough palms. CIDP, when potted, usually tend to lift off the pot because of strong root growth towards the bottom of the pot and that pushs the palm tree up, it's a typical behavior. They like, and need, deep pots, wider and shalow ones should be avoid. Is it possible for you to get a narrowest and deepest pot than that one?

Luis, thanks a lot for your answer and your suggestion! Yes, this potted CIDP will be growing outside in a sunny location during the year, and will be moved inside when the temperature starts to drop below zero degrees Celsuis. It looks nice and brings some relaxing vibe both when outside or inside the house with the only thing that the pot is very heavy so I will need DIY some wedge with rollers to easily move it around by myself! I will look for a narrow and very deep pot as you suggested, but if I fail finding one at the local gardening stores (covid restrictions narrowed the choice of available options dramatically) do you suggest to leave this palm as it is in the current pot and see how it handles it, or repotting it in a similar traditionally shaped (wide & shallow) but smaller sized pot would be a more favorable option?

Edited by MSX
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MSX
14 hours ago, gtsteve said:

I usually agree with Luis and most people here will, but my experience if different. 

I think it will be fine. I have not had problems using big pots and all of my Date palms have had fairly aggressive roots. 

My bizzy was not bothered by it's big pot either.  But I grow all of my plants with the intention of eventually planting them in the ground.

four years later.

 

Steve, thanks a lot for comment! Your potted bizzy looks great and the roots are healthy and nice! Well, I actually bought this CIDP with the intention to plant it in ground this year with some good active winter protection, however it was suggested to me to wait and leave it potted for the next couple/three years before planting it in the ground. I was told this CIDP is still quite young for overwintering in the ground even protected, I don't mind it at all to have it potted for now.

Edited by MSX
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lzorrito
37 minutes ago, MSX said:

Luis, thanks a lot for your answer and your suggestion! Yes, this potted CIDP will be growing outside in a sunny location during the year, and will be moved inside when the temperature starts to drop below zero degrees Celsuis. It looks nice and brings some relaxing vibe both when outside or inside the house with the only thing that the pot is very heavy so I will need DIY some wedge with rollers to easily move it around by myself! I will look for a narrow and very deep pot as you suggested, but if I fail finding one at the local gardening stores (covid restrictions narrowed the choice of available options dramatically) do you suggest to leave this palm as it is in the current pot and see how it handles it, or repotting it in a similar traditionally shaped (wide & shallow) but smaller sized pot would be a more favorable option?

You're welcome! If you can't find a narrow and deeper pot, leave it in the current one, it's fine. If it's growing outside, in a sunny location, it will handle it easily. I was only referring to the pot shape and depth in order to comply with CIDP typical root growth. Now just take good care of it and enjoy its growth.

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Steve Mac
8 hours ago, lzorrito said:

" is that Bizzy of yours a Mayotte sps? It looks so green..."

I don't think so Luis, I received it as a gift as a one strap leaf seedling from a former frequent poster, Mohsen.

I believe that he had the seeds given to him by another palmtalker from up in Queensland, i.e.  North East coast of Aust. and it usually did look more blue/silver.

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MSX

6 months in an oversized pot and it seems like this aggressive CIDP needs a new one!

 

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oasis371

Phoenix canariensis are strong growers if happy.  I grew these two from seed and they are currently in 32 gallon, plastic garbage containers.

 

 

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Edited by oasis371
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PalmatierMeg
1 hour ago, MSX said:

6 months in an oversized pot and it seems like this aggressive CIDP needs a new one!

 

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When it splits the bottom of the pot wide open, it says, "Time for a new one."

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JLM
9 hours ago, MSX said:

6 months in an oversized pot and it seems like this aggressive CIDP needs a new one!

 

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Wow....
Thats some nice growth!

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MSX

The pot cracked completely, so I just decided to plant the palm in the ground instead of messing around with a new pot. It might be an inappropriate decision made at an inappropriate time, the official winter in a couple of weeks, and I'm in 8a, but at least I have for memory some pics of this nice phoenix.

 

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PalmatierMeg

It's small enough to protect. CIDPs want to be in the ground.

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