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Filibusta Spears Pulled

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boaterboat

I thought my Filibusta was doing well after the freeze, but I had several spears pull this afternoon. There is still green on some of the boots. Any thoughts on chances of survival?  I protected the heart with Christmas lights and burlap. 

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Edited by boaterboat
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Swolte

Lightly poke a twig into the hole and see when you get some resistance. Mark the distance (or just break the twig to the exact length) and see if the distance gets shorter in a few days. It is very possible its just actively pushing out bad spears. The ones lying on the ground didn't look very good so good riddance.

Edited by Swolte
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PricklyPearSATC

My med fan palm suddenly grew after aborting several spears in a short length of time.  I thought it was goners, but within a week, new growth!

Edited by PricklyPearSATC
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Reyes Vargas

All of my Phoenix palms did the exact same thing and they are all coming back.  I would give it some time and pour some h2o2 if you haven't already done so.

Here is a picture of one of my palms shortly after the freeze.  All the spears pulled and it smelled rancid.Screenshot_2021-04-13-06-59-03-1.png.96810d9474997301d57cea9d5e636a95.png

Here is the same palm taken 4-7-21 already starting to grow.20210407_072931.thumb.jpg.67210b72301a2215562de238a84ede86.jpg

And here is it on 4-12-2120210412_131622.thumb.jpg.024d7a68a70cd878d9cb40f8241a3eea.jpg

 

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boaterboat

Thanks for the info and encouragement. I had treated all of my palms with copper fungicide since right after the freeze, but treated with hydrogen peroxide this afternoon. While doing this, I noticed nearly all of my 1’ trunk Butia Capitata are pushing green!  I thought they were goners. 
 

I used the stick advice on a few palms as well. Thanks for that!
 

 

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palmnut-fry

Congrats! I'm seeing lots of supposed dead ones around town, maybe there's a chance! I say as long as the plant has green there's way for it to still push bud. I felt dumb, as usual, that I didn't do more to protect my baby but who expects such outrageous lows?! And for so long not sure it mattered like your xmas lite experiment ( and tons lost power anyway...

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MaggieBlue

How’s the filibusta? I gave a filifera in a similar situation. 

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boaterboat
On 4/20/2021 at 6:31 PM, MaggieBlue said:

How’s the filibusta? I gave a filifera in a similar situation. 

I am not seeing any movement yet. Please keep me posted on yours as well. What part of Texas are you in?  I’m just west of Austin. 

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smatofu

In my opinion, "disassemble" palm's crown until you get to healthy tissue. Freeze damage can go pretty deep, much deeper than copper/peroxide can reach.

 

Your palms may be rotting inside. 

 

Edited by smatofu

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Collectorpalms

One of mine that I trunk cut.... didn’t move for awhile then grew about 1/2 Inch and now hasn’t moved for awhile. Pretty hard to know what’s going on, especially with my taller ones. Another that I trunk cut I was able to get to some rotten tissue and clean it up. But what is left hasn’t moved. Still looks like there is meristem left. 

Edited by Collectorpalms
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smatofu
35 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

One of mine that I trunk cut.... didn’t move for awhile then grew about 1/2 Inch and now hasn’t moved for awhile. Pretty hard to know what’s going on, especially with my taller ones. Another that I trunk cut I was able to get to some rotten tissue and clean it up. But what is left hasn’t moved. Still looks like there is meristem left. 

Same experience here. We did what we could, now I guess we have to wait for warmer weather, especially warm nights. 

Edited by smatofu
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MaggieBlue
11 hours ago, boaterboat said:

I am not seeing any movement yet. Please keep me posted on yours as well. What part of Texas are you in?  I’m just west of Austin. 

I am in the DFW area. Mine are 5 years old. We wrapped our palms the same as we have every year but this may have been too many consecutive days at such a low temp....we hit 0 degrees. Neither tree ever collapsed and looked completely normal other than the severe bleaching on the fronds. We started removing fronds once traces of green were no longer visible. About 2 weeks ago I had spears pull that looked very similar to yours. The trees have been treated with copper fungicide and I continue to treat periodically with hydrogen peroxide. We finally cut it last weekend because the hole was about 18 inches deep and getting no sunlight to the center and without fronds I was not sure if it could photosynthesize at all. We cut it just barely into the meristem and are waiting. Not a lit of brown gunk and it did not smell. I mist a mixture of neem oil and Dawn dishsoap on the surface periodically. The forecast is looking pretty warm over the next week so hopefully I will start to see something. I still have a good bit of visible white tissue so I’m remaining positive. I cover it at night to keep bugs and moisture out and it sits in the sun all day.  If it doesn’t make it at least I did everything possible to save it.

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Will Simpson

I would check the depth of relatively solid tissue and cut horizontally across and let it get some air . Fungicide and peroxide are good too .  By the time I cut down into  a Palmetto one spring in May it was too late . I might have been able to save it had I cut  into it  in March  before rot totally took out the bud . 

 

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MaggieBlue

Despite our best efforts, I’m sad to report that neither filifera made it. They were beautiful trees and I’m heartbroken :((

We have already purchased 2 new filifera trees and they will be here by the weekend. I was a tad hesitant about getting the same tree but my husband is in love with the look of the filiferas and I could not talk him into sabals or windmills.  We do have a windmill that is doing just fine...it’s pushing out new green fronds. 
 

Good luck to those of you that cut and are still waiting!

640DEC00-93D4-434E-93D5-354540E754FA.jpeg

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PricklyPearSATC
On 4/22/2021 at 10:30 AM, Collectorpalms said:

One of mine that I trunk cut.... didn’t move for awhile then grew about 1/2 Inch and now hasn’t moved for awhile. Pretty hard to know what’s going on, especially with my taller ones. Another that I trunk cut I was able to get to some rotten tissue and clean it up. But what is left hasn’t moved. Still looks like there is meristem left. 

I trunk cut my livistona 8 days ago.   At first I had no idea what I was doing, but I knew I had not cut very deeply.  The spear was about 14 inches long, brown and wasn't growing.  It did not pull, but it was rotting where it was exiting the trunk. (It tore off and I could see more rot further down) 
I cut several inches below the rot. Now it is growing.  However the trunk is only 2.5  feet tall, so I can visually see the growth.  It appears to maybe have grown an inch.  It is gradually gaining chlorophyll. 

I'm glad I trunk cut it.

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Collectorpalms
6 hours ago, MaggieBlue said:

Despite our best efforts, I’m sad to report that neither filifera made it. They were beautiful trees and I’m heartbroken :((

We have already purchased 2 new filifera trees and they will be here by the weekend. I was a tad hesitant about getting the same tree but my husband is in love with the look of the filiferas and I could not talk him into sabals or windmills.  We do have a windmill that is doing just fine...it’s pushing out new green fronds. 
 

Good luck to those of you that cut and are still waiting!

640DEC00-93D4-434E-93D5-354540E754FA.jpeg

Where are you getting them if you don’t mind inquiring minds, with palm graveyards. Getting pure a filifera is a holy grail. 

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Collectorpalms

There are washingtonia Filifera and hybrids heavy on the Filifera genes that are just now making a shot at growth. I think by Memorial Day we will know finally devastation. Maybe 4th of July, Even Sabals in central Texas are just barely starting.

My canaries have looked alive for three weeks, while my brothers in northeast Hutto where it was colder by 2-3 degrees, he is just now getting growth! So the harder it was damaged, just takes more time. 

Not giving up all hope yet. Just this week I saved a green Mediterranean.

Edited by Collectorpalms

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MaggieBlue
2 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Where are you getting them if you don’t mind inquiring minds, with palm graveyards. Getting pure a filifera is a holy grail. 

https://www.texaspalmtreesdallas.com/

This is also where we bought our filifera trees 5 years ago. They are open 7 days a week. We went this past Sunday and got 2 filiferas and a beautiful phoenix roebelenii we intend to keep in a big pot to winter in a greenhouse. 

They probably had 10-15 large filiferas and about half were spoken for.  They had some beautiful Mediterranean palms.  I almost bought one but I could not immediately picture where I would put it so I did not. Might go back.

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NBTX11
6 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Where are you getting them if you don’t mind inquiring minds, with palm graveyards. Getting pure a filifera is a holy grail. 

Getting a pure Filifera is super easy. 
 

Step one. Go to San Antonio or Austin  Step 2.  Look for 80 year old Washingtonias  They will be the huge Filifera with battle scarred trunks that probably have been around since before 1949.  These are pure Filifera  Step 3, scoop seeds off ground.  Step 4, germinate seeds  

 

 

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UK_Palms
3 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Getting a pure Filifera is super easy. 
 

Step one. Go to San Antonio or Austin  Step 2.  Look for 80 year old Washingtonias  They will be the huge Filifera with battle scarred trunks that probably have been around since before 1949.  These are pure Filifera  Step 3, scoop seeds off ground.  Step 4, germinate seeds  

 

Surely there's a high probability that the seeds will be Filibusta hybrids if there are Robusta's in the area? I know the Robusta's were wiped out in the freeze, but there's a good chance that a male Robusta, or Filibusta, had pollenated the female Filifera last year, before the freeze came. So you could end up with Filibusta seeds off those big, old Filifera's, right?

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NBTX11
21 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

 

Surely there's a high probability that the seeds will be Filibusta hybrids if there are Robusta's in the area? I know the Robusta's were wiped out in the freeze, but there's a good chance that a male Robusta, or Filibusta, had pollenated the female Filifera last year, before the freeze came. So you could end up with Filibusta seeds off those big, old Filifera's, right?

All the Robusta were not wiped out in San Antonio. Probably 30 percent or so are surviving. Especially ones near the city center. 
 

That said, there are large groups of Filifera planted together where the likelihood of it being pure Filifera are high. If, for example, you have a group of 5-10 old Filifera, the chances are it is pure...even if there happens to be a Robusta some distance away. 
 

Just my opinion. Maybe I’m wrong. 

Edited by NBTX11
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Collectorpalms
4 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Getting a pure Filifera is super easy. 
 

Step one. Go to San Antonio or Austin  Step 2.  Look for 80 year old Washingtonias  They will be the huge Filifera with battle scarred trunks that probably have been around since before 1949.  These are pure Filifera  Step 3, scoop seeds off ground.  Step 4, germinate seeds  

 

 

Oh speak for yourself circa 2000, everything was a hybrid. They all hybridize so easy I am not sure any seedlings in San Antonio even now after the freeze is guaranteed not to be a hybrid. The mother palm May be a Filifera, but the pollen ...?

I posted pictures of two Filifera in central Texas that May have survived zero. That is best chance going forward for no Robustas for a couple years. But they are already bringing robustas sold as Filifera into Texas from different locations.
I bought “filifera after Filifera”in the early 2000s.

Edited by Collectorpalms
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NBTX11

That’s why you have to germinate them yourself. I did exactly that, and guess what, it survived the freeze. Get some huge Filifera in a larger group of Filifera that are pre-1950.  Get seeds off ground. Germinate. There are groups of 10-15 Filifera all grouped together. 

Edited by NBTX11

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Ryland

I appreciate this is probably not the most practical suggestion, but if you want pure filifera you could collect seeds from their native environment.  Relatively speaking (I know it's still a long way) Texas is not so far from the Mojave Desert areas where they come from.  1-2 days drive for a holiday in Las Vegas or southern California, via some native palm groves - an essential diversion.  Maybe a more realistic prospect if such a trip is planned anyway, a diversion is less of a bother.  Even if not collecting seed it's a marvelous sight to witness them in their home.

I visited the northernmost (as far as I know) grove of them in Nevada in 2009:

I would love to have a filifera but my property is too small, plus I don't think they would like the humidity.  I'm glad to see there is an interest in them because I always thought of them as under-appreciated palms: thick and heavy compared to the more appealing slender robusta form.  I long sought one when I lived in southern Oregon where I think they would have done alright (maybe a similar challenge to Dallas) but we ended up with a robusta because a filifera could not be found.  In hindsight the robusta seems to have some strong filifera characteristics, likely a hybrid.  It's survived 0F with minimal protection (but favourable position) and sailed through the high teens with little to no damage.

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Chester B
19 hours ago, Ryland said:

I appreciate this is probably not the most practical suggestion, but if you want pure filifera you could collect seeds from their native environment.  Relatively speaking (I know it's still a long way) Texas is not so far from the Mojave Desert areas where they come from.  1-2 days drive for a holiday in Las Vegas or southern California, via some native palm groves - an essential diversion.  Maybe a more realistic prospect if such a trip is planned anyway, a diversion is less of a bother.  Even if not collecting seed it's a marvelous sight to witness them in their home.

I visited the northernmost (as far as I know) grove of them in Nevada in 2009:

I would love to have a filifera but my property is too small, plus I don't think they would like the humidity.  I'm glad to see there is an interest in them because I always thought of them as under-appreciated palms: thick and heavy compared to the more appealing slender robusta form.  I long sought one when I lived in southern Oregon where I think they would have done alright (maybe a similar challenge to Dallas) but we ended up with a robusta because a filifera could not be found.  In hindsight the robusta seems to have some strong filifera characteristics, likely a hybrid.  It's survived 0F with minimal protection (but favourable position) and sailed through the high teens with little to no damage.

When I saw filifera for the first time in Palm Springs I was blown away at the sheer size of them.  Between the two species robusta doesn't hold a candle to filifera.

I think you might've left a little too early, as home depot brings in both types from California.  Now I can't say the filifera are 100% true without genetic testing but they sure look the part.  I have one - it absolutely hates our winters even in a pot under canopy from the house.

Down Medford way I can't see how they wouldn't do well down there.  I'm so envious of the weather, wish I could move down that way, but my wife's job won't allow it at this time.  I can move with mine no problem.

Surely there must a Palm Talker on here that lives by some native clumps that could collect and sell to eager members?

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Ryland
21 hours ago, Chester B said:

When I saw filifera for the first time in Palm Springs I was blown away at the sheer size of them.  Between the two species robusta doesn't hold a candle to filifera.

I think you might've left a little too early, as home depot brings in both types from California.  Now I can't say the filifera are 100% true without genetic testing but they sure look the part.  I have one - it absolutely hates our winters even in a pot under canopy from the house.

Down Medford way I can't see how they wouldn't do well down there.  I'm so envious of the weather, wish I could move down that way, but my wife's job won't allow it at this time.  I can move with mine no problem.

Surely there must a Palm Talker on here that lives by some native clumps that could collect and sell to eager members?

You are right about being too early I think, it sounds like they are easier to find now.  We were all over garden centres between Redding and Sacramento looking for one but could only find robusta and gave up.  Eventually on a trip to the Oregon coast we saw some sad little robustas in a nursery there, very cheap so gave it a go.  Since it was most likely a hybrid, it has paid off.

I think that climate is more promising than Portland for Washingtonia survival just because of the lower rainfall and humidity plus higher heat.  It does get colder though, with average lows below freezing in January and February, so that could limit your choices as well (I'd be much more nervous about having a Phoenix canariensis in Medford than in Portland, though some of the reports from Texas at the moment are giving it a good comeback rate).  It's a great Jubaea climate.  From experience, I'd say the Washingtonia handles the common light freezes without a problem there and it grows so fast, that any damage resulting from temps in the teens (which probably happen 1 in 5 winters) is quickly recovered.  I'm counting on mine to survive in England just based on the very moderate temperatures, lack of damaging levels of cold - because it's unlikely to recover so quickly here if it does get bad.  Texas and southern Oregon have an advantage I think in terms of recoverability.

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Chester B

It's so nice and dry and sunny down there I think filifera would do quite well, even with the colder temps.   Plus like Texas the night may get colder but the daytime highs are much warmer and sunnier than Portland.  I was only driving through the area on the way from Bend  Brookings so don't remember seeing any palms that stuck out to me, and didn't really have the time to look around much.  

So far this year we broke the record for the least amount of rainfall in March and April, with less than 1.5" and broke the record for the most consecutive days over 70F in April at 8.  Lots of sun and a bunch of days in the 80s.  Much of the state is already in drought.  Could be a real hot one this year which I love, but I am concerned about the fire risk.  Last year I was on evacuation orders due to the Labor day wind storm and subsequent fires.

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Swolte

Oh man, weather is not letting up these days, eh?!

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Chester B
5 minutes ago, Swolte said:

Oh man, weather is not letting up these days, eh?!

Well we had the bad winter ice storm the same time as Texas - but you guys got all the headlines.  They're still clearing the downed trees around here.

Now it looks like drought going forward.  As long as the fires stay away I'm good.

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