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Yellowing palms of several species


Ryland

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Hi everyone.  I am seeking some help and advice on a few palms I planted in about 2008 in my mother's garden in Oregon.  They have blasted through everything thrown at them like champions until now - where just a portion of the garden is going worryingly yellow.  I hope somebody has seen this before and knows the cause, and hopefully what to do about it.

Here is a bit of context.  The palms were planted over a decade ago in her Ashland, Oregon garden.  This is a USDA zone 8 climate and has seen temperatures in the intervening years as low as 0ºF/-18ºF (nearby) though most years have seen an annual low of about 15ºF to 25ºF (-9ºC to -4ºC).  This is usually a dry cold and frosts are abundant, with an average low in the coldest month of about 29ºF/-2ºC.  Summers are hot and dry, averaging around 90ºF during the day but with very cool nights (in the 50s F).  The semi-arid climate gets about 20 inches of rain over the year, almost all of it falling between October and April.  There is a drip system to add supplemental water during the summer (one of my suspect culprits for the problem).

The palms include several Trachycarpus fortenei v. wagnerianus on the far right, Trachycarpus princeps in the middle (just right of the gap), a large Trachycarpus takil (though maybe a mislabeled fortunei) in the back left, a Rhapidophylum hystrix underneath the takil, and a Jubaea chilensis in front of these.  I wonder whether the small Brahea armata to the left of the Jubaea is affected too.  Elsewhere in the garden, there are many other palms looking grand.  Just this group however looks bad.  There is no cold damage and the winter was not harsh.  We are very keen to fix this and ensure the palms recover so I'd be grateful for any advice available.

PHOTO-2021-03-19-23-47-15.thumb.jpg.40e4d71617e55b5ad0cfeea40040cbbe.jpg

A closer view of the Jubaea - notice the very happy but small Chamaerops humilis v. cerifera in front.

PHOTO-2021-04-06-22-09-30.thumb.jpg.7de6a96b9b3faca0c2427d082db71f98.jpg

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Manchester, Lancashire, England

53.4ºN, 2.2ºW, 65m AMSL

Köppen climate Cfb | USDA hardiness zone 9a

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Also, please notice the green foliage of a healthy Trachycarpus fortunei just on the right edge of the main picture.  This convinces me that the yellowing is not imagined or a trick of the light!

Manchester, Lancashire, England

53.4ºN, 2.2ºW, 65m AMSL

Köppen climate Cfb | USDA hardiness zone 9a

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How do you fertilize your palms ? 

I think you can solve this partly by regularly applying a good slow release palm fertilizer.

We have very poor, loamy soil here and particularly after the winter period my Trachycarpus always look very yellowy. I fertilize them regularly from April to September and they look much better at the end of the summer, but those that grow in full sun always stay a bit yellowy, though they grow like crazy. It's a soil problem. 

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Buy some Palmgain - problem solved. 

My palms planted in sandy soil always look like this after winter. Ones in clay keep their nice green. color. It’s like the rain in winter leaches away the nutrients. After an application or two of Palmgain they will green right up. They’re missing some nutrient and this can be easily corrected. 
 

Unlike most areas of the country with our lack of summer rains it’s best not to use a slow release fertilizer. Unless you’re hand watering frequently or adding it inline on your drip irrigation it won’t be absorbed very well. Even with Palmgain which is not slow release it takes forever to break down without watering it in. 

Edited by Chester B
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Thanks @aegean and @Chester B these are great suggestions.  You've caused me to make a connection that hadn't occurred before - the soil.  Elsewhere on the property there is generally a clay-like soil (if not right on top, at least a few inches down).  This area has a particularly loamy soil that drains very well - and that soil type does seem to coincide with where we see yellow.

I think she has used a palm food of some sort.  I'll ask about this and see if it aligns with your suggestions.

I'm glad to hear this sounds like it's a minor issue that can be fixed in fairly short order.

Manchester, Lancashire, England

53.4ºN, 2.2ºW, 65m AMSL

Köppen climate Cfb | USDA hardiness zone 9a

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I forgot to mention I love the assortment of palms. :greenthumb:

Once you get the fertilizer on them they should green up within a month and they will look good again into late winter. 
 

Here’s a photo of my palms growing in sandy soil after winter. They never look all that good on spring. The Chamaerops remains nice and blue but you have to think they probably grow in sandy and rocky soil in their native habitat 

3178771B-CB5B-408D-996B-D474A9BBE339.jpeg

Edited by Chester B
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But don't expect those yellowy fronds to turn back to deep green. This is not going to happen.

Fertilizing will make the palm grow faster and grow new deep green fronds. So later in the season you can cut the old yellowy fronds and get a nice healthy look.

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13 hours ago, aegean said:

But don't expect those yellowy fronds to turn back to deep green. This is not going to happen.

Fertilizing will make the palm grow faster and grow new deep green fronds. So later in the season you can cut the old yellowy fronds and get a nice healthy look.

Believe it or not those yellow fronds in my picture did green up nicely.  At least with Trachycarpus they do respond favorably to the fertilizer.

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2 hours ago, Paradise Found said:

Might be low iron. 

Good to know.  I have three planted in that spot and two are looking much better this spring.  The one that's super yellow in the pic is improved but still yellowish this year, it's the worst one I have.

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Pretty normal end of winter situation in cooler/cloudier 'pacific like' climates.

Here after winter it is common for my Queen Palms to look a bit lethargic, jaundiced, yellow (trying to find the right word). After some hot sunny weather and plenty of fertiliser they tend to green up beautifully.  Also foliar application of seaweed fertiliser I believe really helps.

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Just now, sipalms said:

Pretty normal end of winter situation in cooler/cloudier 'pacific like' climates.

Here after winter it is common for my Queen Palms to look a bit lethargic, jaundiced, yellow (trying to find the right word). After some hot sunny weather and plenty of fertiliser they tend to green up beautifully.  Also foliar application of seaweed fertiliser I believe really helps.

Good point, I have used the seaweed as you do in the past.

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I'm glad to hear @Chester B that even your yellow fronds improve after the fertiliser.  We'll take these suggestions forward and hopefully be able to bring back a positive report soon.  I am surprised they've been in the ground this many years but haven't been noticeably yellow until this year.  Perhaps they've taken up all the nutrients available and now it's a matter of replenishing the nutrient stock of the soil.

Glad you liked the assortment too!  There are quite a few more that aren't visible in these photos, including a few sabals and a truly massive Washingtonia.

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Manchester, Lancashire, England

53.4ºN, 2.2ºW, 65m AMSL

Köppen climate Cfb | USDA hardiness zone 9a

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58 minutes ago, Ryland said:

I'm glad to hear @Chester B that even your yellow fronds improve after the fertiliser.  We'll take these suggestions forward and hopefully be able to bring back a positive report soon.  I am surprised they've been in the ground this many years but haven't been noticeably yellow until this year.  Perhaps they've taken up all the nutrients available and now it's a matter of replenishing the nutrient stock of the soil.

Glad you liked the assortment too!  There are quite a few more that aren't visible in these photos, including a few sabals and a truly massive Washingtonia.

Let's see some more photos if you have them.

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I will try to direct her to take some photos, from 5000 miles away :lol: most of the interesting varieties (non-Trachycarpus) are quite small with the exception of the Washingtonia.

Manchester, Lancashire, England

53.4ºN, 2.2ºW, 65m AMSL

Köppen climate Cfb | USDA hardiness zone 9a

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On 4/13/2021 at 3:36 PM, Chester B said:

Good to know.  I have three planted in that spot and two are looking much better this spring.  The one that's super yellow in the pic is improved but still yellowish this year, it's the worst one I have.

Iron uptake can be impacted by temperature for certain plants so maybe trachycarpus fall into that category.  PH plays a large role too, but I highly doubt you have that problem where you live. Iron deficiency from cold temps in winter would maybe explain it.

For me, iron on its own is never the issue, but making it available to my plants is. 

I got some tricks to make it happen, or chelated iron is my bazooka if I need an emergency fix. 

Leaves go from yellow to green in no time flat. Assuming something else isn't the problem. Palms, citrus, gardenia, rhodedendron, ect.

Edited by ColdBonsai
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This happens to some of the non-Palm tropical plants I have here in the winter (and it doesn’t get very cold here).  It looks like classic iron chlorosis on them, with green veins and yellow leaves.  I’ve thought it was temperature related iron deficiency, as no matter what I do in the winter, it doesn’t change, and when temps warm up, they just turn green again. 

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Due to soil temperature they are not able to absorb nutrients as well.

one thing I have learned is the when you give nitrogen, make sure it is in the form of nitrate. Other forms of nitrogen require WARM soil temperatures to work, so read the label.

see attached as an example of 6% nitrogen in nitrate form. Regular miracle grow won’t work in cool soil temperatures. This would be good for central Texas for spring up and down temperatures in Texas for palms to rebound. 

2EAE9B40-4DFB-47DA-918B-AEFF67BA2B87.png

Edited by Collectorpalms

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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@Collectorpalms @Chester B thanks for the tips.  She has apparently applied some slow release palm fertiliser and is looking into something which has a more rapid impact.  Is the Palmgain product mentioned previously fairly fast acting?  Is it a granular, work-into-the-soil type or the kind that you dilute with water and then apply via hand watering?

The spring temperatures there, though not as hot as Texas, do often get to very warm, bright days of 65-75 degrees F followed by cool nights.  The climate in that part of Oregon is rather like an extension of California's Sacramento Valley, just a touch cooler all year.

Manchester, Lancashire, England

53.4ºN, 2.2ºW, 65m AMSL

Köppen climate Cfb | USDA hardiness zone 9a

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@Chester B I have just received some photos from her.  You will see no doubt lots of Trachycarpus but a few other interesting varieties which I will try to point out below.  I expect you might be able to grow similar varieties in Portland - what palms are you growing there?

The smaller, greener Jubaea chilensis in the front of the property.

PHOTO-2021-04-18-19-35-15.thumb.jpg.32dd6415b9fd699edcfc2330e0c6a289.jpg

Same group, but here you can see the small Phoenix theophrastii, of which there are several which have never been able to grow very fast (they've seen a few harsh winters with significant defoliation, one summer defoliation due to negligent lawnmower activity - not my mother though!).  They do seem to be hardy enough though, having come back from everything even as juvenile plants so I'm optimistic that they'll be fine and start growing faster in coming years.

PHOTO-2021-04-18-19-36-02.thumb.jpg.235e5196a28f4959044930311ce67dec.jpg

The front border of the property.

PHOTO-2021-04-18-19-36-29.thumb.jpg.a1ce81f84cf7d358085a62c70e89ce0b.jpg

The enormous Washingtonia that's now exceeding the height of the two-story house.  The south-facing and sheltered location has no doubt helped this thrive in an unlikely climate.

PHOTO-2021-04-18-19-37-02.thumb.jpg.971b6fd6b3202c04d54b50013c7a3799.jpg

Washingtonia again with Chamaerops.

PHOTO-2021-04-18-19-37-27.thumb.jpg.6843ebb2f7030df81c7504f6c8eff12b.jpg

Sabal palmetto.

PHOTO-2021-04-18-19-38-31.thumb.jpg.24c527a41a9bab9752a0f909611a475a.jpg

Trachycarpus group at the back of the property.

PHOTO-2021-04-18-19-39-49.thumb.jpg.c64df657342253b2a32f4d0f6ec8af63.jpg

A Sabal minor 'Brazoria' that never really grows.  I'm sure it's smaller now than it was a few years ago!

PHOTO-2021-04-18-19-40-09.thumb.jpg.c7f3a64fbf81246fb7f9a9f67de8d8ab.jpg

The central yellow group including Jubaea, several Trachycarpus varieties and Rhapidophyllum hystrix (front right).

PHOTO-2021-04-18-19-40-30.thumb.jpg.18628a7cdf06d6a1323b388391b63255.jpg

The same Jubaea plus a few ceriferas and a Brahea armata (partially hidden in this view).

PHOTO-2021-04-18-19-40-41.thumb.jpg.3b1a075f98de4f9e5f02efd3101fcaa7.jpg

The Trachycarpus takil (supposedly) cluster at the north side of the property.

PHOTO-2021-04-18-19-40-56.thumb.jpg.833aa2737d6673e59601307e84a5b0ac.jpg

There are a few Butias around too but they've been grown outdoors from seedlings and are extremely slow.

When I spoke with her about the photos she said if you (or any other "palm people") are passing through Ashland (e.g. travelling to California via I-5) she'd happily show you around the garden.  Just send me a message if so and I'll see if she's available.

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Manchester, Lancashire, England

53.4ºN, 2.2ºW, 65m AMSL

Köppen climate Cfb | USDA hardiness zone 9a

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7 hours ago, Ryland said:

@Collectorpalms @Chester B thanks for the tips.  She has apparently applied some slow release palm fertiliser and is looking into something which has a more rapid impact.  Is the Palmgain product mentioned previously fairly fast acting?  Is it a granular, work-into-the-soil type or the kind that you dilute with water and then apply via hand watering?

The spring temperatures there, though not as hot as Texas, do often get to very warm, bright days of 65-75 degrees F followed by cool nights.  The climate in that part of Oregon is rather like an extension of California's Sacramento Valley, just a touch cooler all year.

Yes Palmgain is not slow release and is granular.  You can mix it into the soil and water it in.  I made it a video on it a while back for reference.

 

As @sipalms has also suggested I have used Seaweed on the chlorotic looking palms in the past.  This is the product I use.  I mix it as directed with water in a small garden sprayer and hit the fronds generously.

81l8RpnpEWL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

 

 

I am growing almost everything your Mom has and some others species as well.  It's too wet in the winter here for Washingtonia and Phoenix palms species so they usually develop fungus and die.  I have friends that moved there this last year so if I am ever going to the area a tour would be great.  I watch the weather down there with envy, so sunny hot and dry.  I went through Medford and really enjoyed the look of the landscape down there, it really is just like Northern California.  I don't think people realize how diverse Oregon landscapes actually are.  Everyone has the impression that it all looks like where I live. 

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Thanks again for the advice.  She is going to get some Palmgain, then we'll see how things pick up.

I wonder whether the yellow this year is more noticeable as a result of the dry conditions, compared to past years.  My potted palms here in the UK are showing it as well this year (though not too alarming), and we've had about a month without rain.  In any case if this is the cause (or a contributing factor) there is not much we can do but keep an eye out for the signs and ensure the necessary watering/fertilising takes place.

Yes @Chester B by all means get in touch if you are down that way!  It is an interesting environment, though for me the more idyllic one is the humid, cool Oregon coast, perhaps a bit more like you have in Portland.  In northwest England where I live now, we have Portland winters and Oregon coast summers, but with less rain.  So far my young Washingtonia robusta and Phoenix canariensis seem happy - maybe all you need is good drainage to get them through the wetter climate?

I have a palm fertiliser here that contains seaweed @sipalms which is a liquid, to be diluted and then applied via normal watering.  I've only just started using it, so we'll see how it goes (though my garden is much younger than my mother's in Oregon)!

Manchester, Lancashire, England

53.4ºN, 2.2ºW, 65m AMSL

Köppen climate Cfb | USDA hardiness zone 9a

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Unless the soil temperatures and or irrigation water are above 65* Palmgain nitrogen sources will not be converted into nitrate that is needed for nitrogen. 
It is great for Florida year round, but not areas that have cool soil temperatures. It’s a cheap method of nitrogen.


I have done a fair amount of research on greenhouse production of plants. 
 

E47E434E-5BD4-4FE3-9D9A-BE68321D5C43.jpeg

Edited by Collectorpalms
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Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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It is almost warm enough.

64CC4A2E-513B-4D05-AE15-3E5724885324.jpeg

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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