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tlow

What are my trachys doing?!

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tlow

So we planted four 30# Trachy Fortunei last October at the completion of our pool project.. They were beautiful until, well we all know what happened in February...  They are browned out (petioles are generally all green) fronds not so hot on all of them, but things are pushing and I have some hope of them recovering (I hope being the key word).   I started noticing just recently the base of the trunk starting to look like someone after Thanksgiving where their belt is starting to get tight and they grow horizontally...

Are they growing in girth, which would indicate growth upward at some point?  What are my trachys doing?!

IMG_20210406_144649.thumb.JPG.1ec06148c4b96e71ab86ef7c119857a7.JPG

 

IMG_20210406_145132.thumb.JPG.5ece0a0909add0005002229e07904732.JPGIMG_20210406_144929.thumb.JPG.96236599b4197d5fd306288bd48b66cf.JPG

IMG_20210406_145443.thumb.JPG.40079695daeeda7389cd4726dfbba676.JPG

 

 

Edited by tlow
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Allen
7 minutes ago, tlow said:

So we planted four 30# Trachy Fortunei last October at the completion of our pool project.. They were beautiful until, well we all know what happened in February...  They are browned out (petioles are generally all green) fronds not so hot on all of them, but things are pushing and I have some hope of them recovering (I hope being the key word).   I started noticing just recently the base of the trunk starting to look like someone after Thanksgiving where their belt is starting to get tight and they grow horizontally...

Are they growing in girth, which would indicate growth upward at some point?  What are my trachys doing?!
 

This is just something they do at that stage.  They'll grow up soon just fine.

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tlow
1 minute ago, Allen said:

This is just something they do at that stage.  They'll grow up soon just fine.

I was concerned they won't be growing back after the storm.. one of them every frond is either brown or white but pushing something from the middle..

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Allen
2 hours ago, tlow said:

I was concerned they won't be growing back after the storm.. one of them every frond is either brown or white but pushing something from the middle..

Mark your spears with a marker and at the same spot on a older frond and look for movement.  gently pull on all center spears if you are concerned about cold damage.  if one pulls out treat with hydrogen peroxide.  

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tlow
11 minutes ago, Allen said:

Mark your spears with a marker and at the same spot on a older frond and look for movement.  gently pull on all center spears if you are concerned about cold damage.  if one pulls out treat with hydrogen peroxide.  

I have done that and three have shown movement, one has a spear that I "think" has moved but marginally... I have had some spear pulls, nothing major, have been peroxide treating every few days.. I'm just wondering what they're doing at the base of the trunk.  I'd think if they were dead, and not doing anything they wouldn't be doing anything at the base like they are.  I'm taking this as a sign of life..

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Jimhardy

SFH trait.

Slope frost heave.

Sometimes exhibited in alpine plants as an adaptation 

to growing on uneven ground in areas that have freezing weather...

thought to be a trait shared by the more hardy Trachys

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tlow
2 minutes ago, Jimhardy said:

SFH trait.

Slope frost heave.

Sometimes exhibited in alpine plants as an adaptation 

to growing on uneven ground in areas that have freezing weather...

thought to be a trait shared by the more hardy Trachys

So you're saying they're not goners?! 

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Allen
1 minute ago, tlow said:

So you're saying they're not goners?! 

The trunk growth has nothing to do with them living or not from your cold damage.  It has been there and you haven't noticed.  That growth is slow.  Congrats on them doing ok.  

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tlow
1 hour ago, Allen said:

The trunk growth has nothing to do with them living or not from your cold damage.  It has been there and you haven't noticed.  That growth is slow.  Congrats on them doing ok.  

Well I'll tell you that I am kinda nuts in the sense that my daily routine involves walking around everything on the property (fruit trees, orchard included) and taking a look at everything first thing in the morning.. so with the palms (40+) I take a close look, and these trachys especially i've been keeping a close eye hoping they live post the storm.. Am I correct in asserting that even though the fronds might look rough, this growth in the trunk should be a good thing?  Literally this just start about two weeks ago and wasn't present from the planting in October until then.

Edited by tlow

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Jimhardy
11 hours ago, tlow said:

So you're saying they're not goners?! 

I was not saying that

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Jimhardy
11 hours ago, tlow said:

Well I'll tell you that I am kinda nuts in the sense that my daily routine involves walking around everything on the property (fruit trees, orchard included) and taking a look at everything first thing in the morning.. so with the palms (40+) I take a close look, and these trachys especially i've been keeping a close eye hoping they live post the storm.. Am I correct in asserting that even though the fronds might look rough, this growth in the trunk should be a good thing?  Literally this just start about two weeks ago and wasn't present from the planting in October until then.

I used to walk around and look at all my palms and cacti like I was in a museum...

One thing I can tell you about Trachys that push up a little and then appear to stop

is that they can still die after this happens, a little movement and then nothing COULD

mean trouble....if there is not somewhat continuous movement (mine are small and were trimmed back

to fit into containers but have all pushed one leaf out-almost all the way) there could be blockage of dead tissue...

if they are still moving slowly they are still recovering but if they pushed and completely stopped you may

want to try more surgery, a little at a time just to see whats going on in there-sometimes the fungal infection

can overwhelm the new growth.

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tlow
21 minutes ago, Jimhardy said:

I used to walk around and look at all my palms and cacti like I was in a museum...

One thing I can tell you about Trachys that push up a little and then appear to stop

is that they can still die after this happens, a little movement and then nothing COULD

mean trouble....if there is not somewhat continuous movement (mine are small and were trimmed back

to fit into containers but have all pushed one leaf out-almost all the way) there could be blockage of dead tissue...

if they are still moving slowly they are still recovering but if they pushed and completely stopped you may

want to try more surgery, a little at a time just to see whats going on in there-sometimes the fungal infection

can overwhelm the new growth.

I'm concerned about one in particular... one petiole pulled out a few weeks ago, and I discovered the tip of a spear, marked it, hasn't moved in weeks..  It's right next to the pool too, my favorite looking one.  I might do some light surgery and cut around to expose that spear.  I've peroxided it but no fizz thus far.  Below is what it looks like.. nothing else has emerged from the center, this spear has just been there, and done nothing..

IMG_20210401_131758.thumb.JPG.46a3fde7ccad2af76fe341983c65be12.JPG

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tlow

Alright well surgery indeed... I went down slowly, 1-2" at a time, not much living until I got down, way down there and I see more white'ish color, so it's living tissue versus brown hard dead... I peroxide'd the crap out of it.  Should I bother waiting or do y'all think this is a goner?

 

IMG_20210407_084654.JPG

IMG_20210407_084700.JPG

IMG_20210407_084703.JPG

IMG_20210407_084721.JPG

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Will Simpson

Hopefully you'll see some growth in a week , but remember you won't know if it's alive till May or dead till August .

Will

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tlow

So y'all think with the way they look I should just leave them like this to see if it pushes anything?  I did another one of my trachys, and looks about the same.  It's a different color than the brown dry bark, but it's not lush white or anything..  I am having replacements (ordered in case) delivered tomorrow.  Wondering if I just leave them, and for how long?

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aegean

if you can bend the trunk with a feeling like it was rubber, the palm is very likely gone.

 

 

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Jimhardy

There is a very small chance they are still good but it does look like you cut down about as far as

you should....all I can really add is that in the past when I had to do this all the palms that

lived raised up out of the center within a day or two...anyway,not looking good right now.

I will say that when they do come back they put out some cool looking miniaturized leaves

like a Waggy and its not long before they are back at full size.  Good luck-

Hopefully this will post here

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2083223/update-on-trunk-cut-trachys-

Edited by Jimhardy

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tlow
8 minutes ago, Jimhardy said:

Lets see if you can see the images on this old thread I found

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2083223/update-on-trunk-cut-trachys-    

So either I'm losing my mind, or the first one I cut (was doomed I thought) is pushing something up!!!  It was completely flat, now you can notice (hopefully in picture) white issue pushing upward... I cut another two and got down to the same level, peroxide'd and we'll see how those two go.... I might be able to save these yet.  Today is sun all day, warm, tomorrow 82F and sunny all day... let's go!

IMG_20210407_144647.thumb.JPG.4f362a92a5afade8cd9c733e8830a500.JPG

This is after just a few hours outside today baking in the sun!!  Could they pop this quick?!

IMG_20210407_144647_1.thumb.JPG.61dbd1ad0c55cfb4972043b28f0d4977.JPG

 

 

Here's another one I cut... down to that same level.  Took a lot of patient saw'ing through a crap ton of like fiber'ous material but got down to this ultimately.  Plenty of white looking life matter!

IMG_20210407_084703.thumb.JPG.ae35ec650db806c40349cde9bcb720d0.JPGIMG_20210407_084721.thumb.JPG.031dcbc1241ce902128a9f3e40794cb4.JPG

IMG_20210407_144648.JPG

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Collectorpalms

Looks like your doing the right thing, it would be a good idea to spray with copper fungicide the cut tree, and bleach your saw blade. I would just watch and wait. You can keep doing to the peroxide probably when the weather is arid.

Edited by Collectorpalms

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Collectorpalms
35 minutes ago, Jimhardy said:

There is a very small chance they are still good but it does look like you cut down about as far as

you should....all I can really add is that in the past when I had to do this all the palms that

lived raised up out of the center within a day or two...anyway,not looking good right now.

I will say that when they do come back they put out some cool looking miniaturized leaves

like a Waggy and its not long before they are back at full size.  Good luck-

Hopefully this will post here

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2083223/update-on-trunk-cut-trachys-

How long after the freeze damage did you do the trunk cut. Here in Texas it’s been 1.5 months. I think this is getting to the limit of them living without intervention, but maybe I am over anxious??? Or should I have done them the first week, is my worry. A lot looked ok, but it was once they didn’t do anything or the green faded that I decided to intervene.

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Jimhardy

If there is any life in there it can help but doing it sooner than later is good

esp in warmer areas where the spears are moving, as we all know a healthy Trachy

will start growing as soon as temps warm up -also when soil temps get above 50F.

I would think in warmer areas it just depends on when the cold hits...was just looking at the

forecast here and it looks like more cold is coming end of next week and possibly snow-

looks like I will be covering the palms and tree ferns up again and bringing in

some other plants I put out....80F for 3 days and now April fools snow possibly...

thats what I get for drinking the hot early April cool aid.

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tlow
1 minute ago, Jimhardy said:

If there is any life in there it can help but doing it sooner than later is good

esp in warmer areas where the spears are moving, as we all know a healthy Trachy

will start growing as soon as temps warm up -also when soil temps get above 50F.

I would think in warmer areas it just depends on when the cold hits...was just looking at the

forecast here and it looks like more cold is coming end of next week and possibly snow-

looks like I will be covering the palms and tree ferns up again and bringing in

some other plants I put out....80F for 3 days and now April fools snow possibly...

thats what I get for drinking the hot early April cool aid.

I've cut three of them now, to that white'ish colored flesh... peroxide'd and we'll see what happens..

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Collectorpalms
10 minutes ago, tlow said:

I've cut three of them now, to that white'ish colored flesh... peroxide'd and we'll see what happens..

These Brahea looked like goners then two weeks between the brown squeezed out came this. So the brown layer still didn’t move, but these squeezed out in between! These were the first ones I did, so they had the least time between deep freeze and cut.

B55AF520-B9DE-4CF3-94D3-FF857E5F2327.jpeg

7302327F-733E-483A-9781-252AD8EB0C7E.jpeg

Edited by Collectorpalms

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Jimhardy

Thats awesome...its always rewarding to see them bounce back!

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tlow
14 hours ago, Jimhardy said:

Thats awesome...its always rewarding to see them bounce back!

Well.... I'm a bit shocked.  They're starting to look exactly like your picture on the thread you sent.  The middle of them are pushing up from yesterday.  They were obviously flat as they were sawed, but now, the middle is literally pushing up.  I'm floored... I have one that has not been cut yet but thinking he might get done today as there has been no movement on this one as well.

My wife laughed at me because I have 4x 3# Windmills showing up today to replace these as I thought they were goners.. my insurance policy.... welp.. lol.

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Jimhardy

Well ...good luck.

And post some pics as they (hopefully) progress!

 

P.S. Your a Dr. now...as good as any in the Civil war at least :D

Edited by Jimhardy

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tlow
32 minutes ago, Jimhardy said:

Well ...good luck.

And post some pics as they (hopefully) progress!

 

P.S. Your a Dr. now...as good as any in the Civil war at least :D

OK well here are some progress pictures.. the sun today should get these moving quickly, so I'll post pictures in the afternoon to compare a days of growth but it's astounding how much it's moved already.

This one was on my list to cut today, wasn't showing growth or anything so I marked it to give it one more day and sure enough, it moved, and nicely.. I looked inside and i was able to put my pinky in yesterday now it hits white and there is what feels like a spear protruding up... leaving this one be! I'll snap some updates when this one shows some more visibile progress but this is GREAT news!

IMG_20210408_081902.thumb.JPG.a7d5cdbd9b4bc51af68684565ff1fa2a.JPG

This one is on the other side of our pathway leading to the pool... cut yesterday, but look at that progress, it's beautiful!! You can see green on the sides even.

IMG_20210408_081829.thumb.JPG.7f93f9054fdb524036525014609887ba.JPG

IMG_20210408_081833.thumb.JPG.9d221d690f8f13291157a6652334a22b.JPG

The one that started the surgery yesterday... it was flat on the inside, now it's all white, and pushing white tissue up!

IMG_20210408_081932.thumb.JPG.82d5d03b9f8f2a826153035a49f6be4b.JPG

Last one as well which has shown a lot of growth already... wow, I'm floored guys!

IMG_20210408_081955.thumb.JPG.76560c19daf927bb40a88d31c4777bc1.JPG

IMG_20210408_081959.thumb.JPG.606245df641ae14f5a9fe49bb6281d13.JPG

IMG_20210408_082003.thumb.JPG.51f9b4dca82953979cfded9f6562811a.JPG

They just got peroxide, and a dose of our sprinklers on them but will dry out here shortly.. the sun is out, heat is coming for the next couple of days.. I expect these to show marked progress now..  @Jimhardy you are a mad man, but man thanks for pushing me to do this!  I'm going to put my PHD up on the wall here anyday.

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Collectorpalms
36 minutes ago, tlow said:

OK well here are some progress pictures.. the sun today should get these moving quickly, so I'll post pictures in the afternoon to compare a days of growth but it's astounding how much it's moved already.

This one was on my list to cut today, wasn't showing growth or anything so I marked it to give it one more day and sure enough, it moved, and nicely.. I looked inside and i was able to put my pinky in yesterday now it hits white and there is what feels like a spear protruding up... leaving this one be! I'll snap some updates when this one shows some more visibile progress but this is GREAT news!

IMG_20210408_081902.thumb.JPG.a7d5cdbd9b4bc51af68684565ff1fa2a.JPG

This one is on the other side of our pathway leading to the pool... cut yesterday, but look at that progress, it's beautiful!! You can see green on the sides even.

IMG_20210408_081829.thumb.JPG.7f93f9054fdb524036525014609887ba.JPG

IMG_20210408_081833.thumb.JPG.9d221d690f8f13291157a6652334a22b.JPG

The one that started the surgery yesterday... it was flat on the inside, now it's all white, and pushing white tissue up!

IMG_20210408_081932.thumb.JPG.82d5d03b9f8f2a826153035a49f6be4b.JPG

Last one as well which has shown a lot of growth already... wow, I'm floored guys!

IMG_20210408_081955.thumb.JPG.76560c19daf927bb40a88d31c4777bc1.JPG

IMG_20210408_081959.thumb.JPG.606245df641ae14f5a9fe49bb6281d13.JPG

IMG_20210408_082003.thumb.JPG.51f9b4dca82953979cfded9f6562811a.JPG

They just got peroxide, and a dose of our sprinklers on them but will dry out here shortly.. the sun is out, heat is coming for the next couple of days.. I expect these to show marked progress now..  @Jimhardy you are a mad man, but man thanks for pushing me to do this!  I'm going to put my PHD up on the wall here anyday.

I would give them a liquid fertilizer with micronutrient now that they are growing weekly. They are going to need every bit of nutrition to keep going. They look like they will live with tlc, but could go downhill without love.

dont go too heavy on nitrogen or they will be weak. 

Edited by Collectorpalms

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tlow
9 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

I would give them a liquid fertilizer with micronutrient now that they are growing weekly. They are going to need every bit of nutrition to keep going. They look like they will live with tlc, but could go downhill without love.

dont go too heavy on nitrogen or they will be weak. 

OK so I have the following.. suggestions for which would be best?

- Miracle grow all purpose fertilizer (mix with water)

- Palm Nutritional Spray (liquid)

- SuperThrive

- Miracle Grow slow release palm fertilizer (coming Saturday)

What do y'all suggest I do?  I'm ready to fertilize whenever, they've just been receiving water thus far.

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Collectorpalms

https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/supplies/fertilizer-and-hormones/dyna-gro-foliage-pro-9-3-6?returnurl=%2fsupplies%2ffertilizer-and-hormones%2f
 

I am not a fan of miracle grow. Only products I use of theirs the slow release for tomatoes ( yes on palms!) 

and their water soluable for acid loving plants, for most other tropicals.

however I found this product that would work that isn’t too high in N and has micronutrients.

 

 

51E50FC5-3C07-4B8D-A70C-8FE4ED3B15FC.jpeg

Edited by Collectorpalms

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Collectorpalms

Nutritional spray won’t work without leaves, plus I am not sure how well palms absorb nutrient through fronds. Superthrive you can use in Addition to fertilizer, But not in place of.

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tlow
Just now, Collectorpalms said:

Nutritional spray won’t work without leaves, plus I am not sure how well palms absorb nutrient through fronds. Superthrive you can use in Addition to fertilizer, But not in place of.

Thanks!  Given I have the slow release palm fertilizer coming, I may start with that, and some superthrive to get them going this weekend.

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Jimhardy

M-grow is garbage.

 

The best Fert for palms for healthy growth is compost or another natural

fert as the M-grow types make for weaker growth that is not cold hardy.

The palm in the last picture looks good, the others may survive but(at least) one

looks like the center is still rotted,hoefully it can push through it...you have 

given them a fighting chance, so the battle is all theirs:)

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tlow
1 hour ago, Jimhardy said:

M-grow is garbage.

 

The best Fert for palms for healthy growth is compost or another natural

fert as the M-grow types make for weaker growth that is not cold hardy.

The palm in the last picture looks good, the others may survive but(at least) one

looks like the center is still rotted,hoefully it can push through it...you have 

given them a fighting chance, so the battle is all theirs:)

They are ALL pushing higher.... I'm feeling pretty good about our chances.  One of them is really vigorous in that it's risen quite a lot since just yesterday.. crazy how fast these are moving.

IMG_20210408_164421.thumb.JPG.cd694918e6a4a737c26df695fdbd7622.JPG

IMG_20210408_164440.thumb.JPG.4f454d60eba36a36d68c4368514c80ad.JPG

Really hoping the one below pulls through as it's right next to the jump rock on the pool.. It has grown and moved up considerably since yesterday.  We have sun for the next several days so let's see what they look like then!

IMG_20210408_164524.thumb.JPG.1beef95c7a83303648da6329518c2f0e.JPG

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Will Simpson

I've done my share of surgery , so be patient and they can come back amazingly sometimes . Some of my successes below when I thought they were goners .

Will

 

DSC00326.thumb.JPG.4cef1b87e4bf640a92d380bcb0aabbac.JPG

 

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DSC03715.thumb.JPG.88e370290a961b87b7d3e6c3c9fc2fdf.JPG

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Jimhardy

The one in the first pic is the one I thought still looks rotted in the center...still some pushing out 

on some of the others but hopefully it keeps lifting out of there-

they should keep pushing up if they are healthy....your the doctor now, when done

in time this can really save a palm that was for sure a goner....the fungal infection

really thrives on the dead tissue, darkness and lack of oxygen and moisture/warmth...the operation tips the scales

back in the plants favor....:greenthumb:

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PricklyPearSATC
7 hours ago, Will Simpson said:

I've done my share of surgery , so be patient and they can come back amazingly sometimes . Some of my successes below when I thought they were goners .

Will

 

 

 

 

DSC03715.thumb.JPG.88e370290a961b87b7d3e6c3c9fc2fdf.JPG

Say what????? :o
What did you do there??  That is banana of sorts...right? 

Usually, they just die and have pups...
How did get so dry and papery??

Edited by PricklyPearSATC

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dalmatiansoap

That's Ensete Maurelli, easy to return back to life ;)

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