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CiprianS

Damage assessment after Texas freeze - need to find cold hardy palms

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CiprianS

Ok... big dilemma. I am just about to jump in my car and drive to New Braunfels to get two Canaries. The reasonable person from this house, who is not as sick as I am with the palm trees, my wife, says no. :) Her reasoning is even if I do call Lowe's and they have the Canaries, they put them aside, maybe some other employee will sell them until I get there. Maybe they won't look as I expect them to and ... that will be a big disappointment.

 

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CiprianS

I just called right now and it shows them that they have nine in stock but when the person that told me this actually checked the store he could not find them...  :) 

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NBTX11

Look on the left side in the back when you walk into the garden center at the New Braunfels Lowe’s. As of about 3 days ago they had Canary Island Dates, Filifera, Windmills, Butias, and Med Fans. All good and hardy palms. 
 

The Filifera actually looked to be heavy Filifera and not Robusta labeled as Filifera. 
 

Also, Paradise Palms has hundreds of palms for sale, including Sylvester date palms. They are on I35 between New Braunfels and San Marcos. 

Edited by NBTX11
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TonyDFW

Cold hardy palms returning after the big Dallas freeze

w  filifera, b  armata, b  decumbens, n  richtiana, s  Louisiana  c  humilis 

C1BDD7B8-18B3-4389-978C-6237D8FA0FB5.thumb.jpeg.72dcaa8f10d295afe0ef59f38abbc601.jpeg9E916927-9C16-4181-9135-A892F3A0856C.thumb.jpeg.709359882405252fa06506d8b741d999.jpeg

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3E13BC78-9337-4E48-95A6-1760AFA5BFF3.jpeg

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TonyDFW

They cut down these 30 year old palms today

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Jtee
6 minutes ago, TonyDFW said:

They cut down these 30 year old palms today

Which palms did they cut down?

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CiprianS

I did it... I can call myself crazy. I drove to Lowe's San Antonio, the one from 11718 I-35N since the one in New Braunfels did not have any Canaries left. At least this is what I was told when I called the New Braunfels store. With the San Antonio one, first time I was told they don't have any (although their stock at the store that they checked was showing nine in stock) because one person was not finding them, I called again and surprise, one guy managed to find them, at least five of them. I was told that I can be transferred to Customer Service to pay for them by phone and have two set aside for me. Their line did not work to be transferred so I called again, again it did not work. Long short story, I drove three hours to get there, and surprise, two Canaries were put aside exactly next to one of the registers from the Garden Center. I looked at some other ones that they had there, the two that were put aside were the best looking ones. They also had some Filifera there but they had some fungus or something on the leaves, I have also seen some nice big Pindo Palms and also some Mule Palms.

I drove another three hours home, hand washed my car on my driveway to get rid of the proof of the war that I had with all of the flies and bugs from Houston-San Antonio and San Antonio-Houston road and that's it. I can now rest knowing that I accomplished my obsession to get the two Canaries that I kept on searching like crazy for. My wife is saying that I am crazy for doing this... oh well... I might be. :) 

What made me drive to San Antonio and take the day off from work to do this was a $5k Canary that I saw at Moon Valley Nurseries, I guess they also had a 50% off... and I said enough, I have had enough and if I stay more without the Canaries then maybe I will be tempted to pay $1-2k for one and then for sure I will remain single. :D 

Below are the two Canaries that I got, exactly as they were close to the register.

IxFeQmA.jpg

Below is the Canary that I saw at Moon Valley Nurseries which made me drive to San Antonio to get the baby Canaries above. :) 

sIZJ4k5.jpg

Below are the rest of the Palms that I saw at San Antonio Lowe's, I was tempted to get some Filiferas, too but I did not like the fungus from their leaves. Now iI realize that I did not take any photos of their Mule Palms.

mqyyJwk.jpg

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UtvQBPG.jpg

c8Ds6Bk.jpg

PeceHDH.jpg

HqCMzNL.jpg

GRwbI7L.jpg

4T8psPJ.jpg

 

 

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Keys6505
8 hours ago, CiprianS said:

I did it... I can call myself crazy. I drove to Lowe's San Antonio, the one from 11718 I-35N since the one in New Braunfels did not have any Canaries left. At least this is what I was told when I called the New Braunfels store. With the San Antonio one, first time I was told they don't have any (although their stock at the store that they checked was showing nine in stock) because one person was not finding them, I called again and surprise, one guy managed to find them, at least five of them. I was told that I can be transferred to Customer Service to pay for them by phone and have two set aside for me. Their line did not work to be transferred so I called again, again it did not work. Long short story, I drove three hours to get there, and surprise, two Canaries were put aside exactly next to one of the registers from the Garden Center. I looked at some other ones that they had there, the two that were put aside were the best looking ones. They also had some Filifera there but they had some fungus or something on the leaves, I have also seen some nice big Pindo Palms and also some Mule Palms.

I drove another three hours home, hand washed my car on my driveway to get rid of the proof of the war that I had with all of the flies and bugs from Houston-San Antonio and San Antonio-Houston road and that's it. I can now rest knowing that I accomplished my obsession to get the two Canaries that I kept on searching like crazy for. My wife is saying that I am crazy for doing this... oh well... I might be. :) 

What made me drive to San Antonio and take the day off from work to do this was a $5k Canary that I saw at Moon Valley Nurseries, I guess they also had a 50% off... and I said enough, I have had enough and if I stay more without the Canaries then maybe I will be tempted to pay $1-2k for one and then for sure I will remain single. :D 

Below are the two Canaries that I got, exactly as they were close to the register.

IxFeQmA.jpg

Below is the Canary that I saw at Moon Valley Nurseries which made me drive to San Antonio to get the baby Canaries above. :) 

sIZJ4k5.jpg

Below are the rest of the Palms that I saw at San Antonio Lowe's, I was tempted to get some Filiferas, too but I did not like the fungus from their leaves. Now iI realize that I did not take any photos of their Mule Palms.

mqyyJwk.jpg

RAMbN0P.jpg

HZGE2H1.jpg

qPG9LRx.jpg

lFFIswH.jpg

XUBFrUp.jpg

MI12hbk.jpg

Dma4yAC.jpg

UtvQBPG.jpg

c8Ds6Bk.jpg

PeceHDH.jpg

HqCMzNL.jpg

GRwbI7L.jpg

4T8psPJ.jpg

 

 

Congrats man, persistence pays off!

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Swolte

Hope you had some good podcasts on during the drive (are there any on palms? Hole in the market, folks?)!

I can understand she thinks your crazy (been there...) but did she at least appreciate the palm? Btw, some great specimens, despite the scarcity! Totally worth it! 

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Jtee

I’m glad you got the canaries finally. IMO it’s totally worth the 3 hour drive to get the palm you want. You sacrificed 6 hrs driving but you also have a permanent palm that will hopefully last you a lifetime or a few decades. 

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CiprianS
4 hours ago, Keys6505 said:

Congrats man, persistence pays off!

Thank you. Is it called persistence? I would rather call it obsession. :)  

53 minutes ago, Swolte said:

Hope you had some good podcasts on during the drive (are there any on palms? Hole in the market, folks?)!

I can understand she thinks your crazy (been there...) but did she at least appreciate the palm? Btw, some great specimens, despite the scarcity! Totally worth it! 

I just listened to the radio, nothing special, nothing fancy. This is my third car when I am not even activating the one year free Sirius XM or whatever it is called. I just listen to whatever I find there and my ear likes it. 

Those are nice specimens indeed, now I have another head ache, I need to plant them. Planting them is not going to be a hard thing to do, but removing the other ones roots to replace them with the new ones will be. I got tired of using the Spade, Shovel and axe to dig in my front and back yards.

On Saturday I installed two dripping systems for my seventeen roses that I have in front, five on the front left and twelve on the front right. After ordering parts after parts, the WiFi controller and the rest of the parts I finally installed them. Now, I need to extend those two systems so that they will also get to the Canaries. Plus I need to install some in line shutdown valces so that I separate the roses from the Canaries. On the roses I put emitters with 4 gph, for the Canaries I need to see what emitters/small sprinklers I will put and I will just play with the time to water them how much is needed.

13 minutes ago, Jtee said:

I’m glad you got the canaries finally. IMO it’s totally worth the 3 hour drive to get the palm you want. You sacrificed 6 hrs driving but you also have a permanent palm that will hopefully last you a lifetime or a few decades. 

I really hope that these ones won't die again in the next freeze. Anyway, the whole idea was to have only a few palms that needs to be protected during freezes. After I finish with planting and see what will happen with my Robusta, too I need to search for some incandescent Christmas lights to have them ready for next time. I don't want to end up losing my Canaries again.

In this time, I still have two small Pindos (the ones that I potted and are somewhere in this topic) that I haven't planted, the two Sabal Riverside from Phil that are still acclimating, and another two Sabal Palmettos. I have a lot of Palm trees that I still need to plant, I am done for this year. I just hope the two Robusta will survive, although the trunk cut one hasn't shown any signs of growth lately. :(  

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PricklyPearSATC

Yay!  Success!  The CIDPs are returning here in San Antonio. 
You probably just had bad luck with your palms being so young during the 2021 freeze. 
The date palms were also returning in Rosenberg when I visited last weekend.  (Both CIDP and true dates)

 

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Xenon

Nice haul! You really need to stop hyperbolically fretting about Canaries and "freezes"...they are in no danger at all from dying from a freeze anywhere in the Houston Area. You just got extremely unlucky with recently planted palms. Established palms survive single digits and they survived all of the colder freezes of the 1980s as well. 

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CiprianS
7 hours ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

Yay!  Success!  The CIDPs are returning here in San Antonio. 
You probably just had bad luck with your palms being so young during the 2021 freeze. 
The date palms were also returning in Rosenberg when I visited last weekend.  (Both CIDP and true dates)

 

I am seeing the same thing in my area. Big Canaries and Date Palms are returning back to life.  Except for one house from my neighborhood where there are two (2) Canaries very close to each other which is actually a pity for them, one seems to be dead.

7 hours ago, Xenon said:

Nice haul! You really need to stop hyperbolically fretting about Canaries and "freezes"...they are in no danger at all from dying from a freeze anywhere in the Houston Area. You just got extremely unlucky with recently planted palms. Established palms survive single digits and they survived all of the colder freezes of the 1980s as well. 

Out of fifteen palms that I had, I lost ten of them. It is true that all of them were less than two years before planted but, I still lost them. I always like to play it safe. :) 

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NBTX11

Do not worry about Canaries and freezes in either Houston or San Antonio.  They are fully hardy.  And when I mean fully hardy, I mean large established ones will not die from freezes or cold.  They may die due to other factors and diseases, but not freezing weather or cold.  I am convinced of this.  This was essentially the longest freeze we have EVER had in history, and if this couldn't kill them, nothing will.  I contend this was the worse freeze in 100 years or more, when taking into consideration both the length of freeze (about the worst in history), and ultimate lows (among the top 5 or so in the past century).  I see huge canaries around SA, and it's colder here than in Houston.  There is a row of like 40 or 50 foot tall Canaries in New Braunfels that has been there decades and decades.

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TonyDFW

 

 

Sabal mexicana in Dallas over the past 9 years.  Unprotected and not irrigated. No new growth yet.

97B1A31C-5771-4774-B9FD-1E6A1EEF7D6E.jpeg

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TonyDFW

Washingtonia filifera in Dallas over 11 years

no irrigation or protection and maybe no life after 2021

7226E1DE-8F81-46CA-BB13-B5979F0F09FC.jpeg

7379026D-5BD5-43FA-8152-D00299C992B0.jpeg

B2D5C75E-0E7E-4CC3-8B21-1A91BD2310AE.jpeg

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CiprianS
2 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Do not worry about Canaries and freezes in either Houston or San Antonio.  They are fully hardy.  And when I mean fully hardy, I mean large established ones will not die from freezes or cold.  They may die due to other factors and diseases, but not freezing weather or cold.  I am convinced of this.  This was essentially the longest freeze we have EVER had in history, and if this couldn't kill them, nothing will.  I contend this was the worse freeze in 100 years or more, when taking into consideration both the length of freeze (about the worst in history), and ultimate lows (among the top 5 or so in the past century).  I see huge canaries around SA, and it's colder here than in Houston.  There is a row of like 40 or 50 foot tall Canaries in New Braunfels that has been there decades and decades.

I just checked the calendar that I have in my garage where I mark when I fertilize the lawn, the palms and everything else. On February 1st I fertilized the Canaries thinking that the cold season was gone. Probably that is what killed them since that fertilizer probably promoted new growth and they got killed because of the cold that caught them actively growing.

I was looking on the label from Lowe’s from these Canaries and it says to fertilize them monthly. Should I do this? Except for the cold months, of course. 

 

 

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PricklyPearSATC
6 hours ago, TonyDFW said:

 

 

 

 

 

Sabal mexicana in Dallas over the past 9 years.  Unprotected and not irrigated. No new growth yet.

97B1A31C-5771-4774-B9FD-1E6A1EEF7D6E.jpeg

81C50FC0-AC44-4B26-8592-C61DB7F7D88F.jpeg

888465BF-1C60-4618-9037-6662E77B8BC8.jpeg

1B085487-56BD-47C1-9E12-C51385789C62.jpeg

I hope they return.  Very impressed with their growth rate from seedling stage! Very impressed.  We have something like that here, but it's on Google maps.  Your documentation is more accurate regarding growth rate. 

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CiprianS
18 hours ago, CiprianS said:

I just checked the calendar that I have in my garage where I mark when I fertilize the lawn, the palms and everything else. On February 1st I fertilized the Canaries thinking that the cold season was gone. Probably that is what killed them since that fertilizer probably promoted new growth and they got killed because of the cold that caught them actively growing.

I was looking on the label from Lowe’s from these Canaries and it says to fertilize them monthly. Should I do this? Except for the cold months, of course. 

 

 

Any inputs on my post above? :) 

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NBTX11
1 hour ago, CiprianS said:

Any inputs on my post above? :) 

I think your palms died because they were small and not yet well established.  Get them with a couple feet of clear trunk on them and you should be good to go.  

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CiprianS
12 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

I think your palms died because they were small and not yet well established.  Get them with a couple feet of clear trunk on them and you should be good to go.  

What about the fertilization? Should I fertilize them once per month? 

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Collectorpalms

Granulated fertilizer every couple months in a humid climate. Water soluble fertilizer every couple weeks.

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Xenon

I like Dynamite (rebranded Nutricote) 18-6-8 for a granular 6 month slow release and Dyna-Gro Foliage-Pro 9-3-6 for liquid fertilizer every other week. The first is available at any orange or blue big box and the second at most fertilizer stores and hydro shops. 

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CiprianS

I have an issue with my Robustas. The trunk cut one has stopped the signs of growth, I think it is dead. If that one is dead then probably I will remove also the one that shows signs of life and plant two Filifera to replace them. Where do I get two Filifera? :) Because the ones that I saw at Lowe's San Antonio had some fungus or something like that on them. I need two 5 or 10 gallon Filifera. Plus, I started to like the thick trunk of the Filifera that I see around in my area.

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CiprianS

Today I took out what was left from my Canaries. I took advantage of the fact that the soil was all soaked from the rains and using the spade, the shovel and the pick axe I took them out. On Monday or Tuesday I need to plant the ones that I got from Lowe's San Antonio because they need to get in the ground to get going. :) 

So sad to look at these two holes right now. If it starts raining again they will be full of water.  Oh well... at least my lawn is getting greener and greener and starting to recover after the frost. :) 

h7HNBkE.jpg

biG7NXK.jpg

 

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NBTX11
On 4/30/2021 at 9:04 AM, CiprianS said:

I have an issue with my Robustas. The trunk cut one has stopped the signs of growth, I think it is dead. If that one is dead then probably I will remove also the one that shows signs of life and plant two Filifera to replace them. Where do I get two Filifera? :) Because the ones that I saw at Lowe's San Antonio had some fungus or something like that on them. I need two 5 or 10 gallon Filifera. Plus, I started to like the thick trunk of the Filifera that I see around in my area.

The New Braunfels Lowe’s had Filifera last I checked unless they ran out. 

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Collectorpalms
4 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

The New Braunfels Lowe’s had Filifera last I checked unless they ran out. 

They are the Same shipment as the ones at the other Lowe’s in the areas. Not sure if all have spotting or fungus.

But if your going to be planting pure Filifera, you are going to always be dealing with spotting on the older leaves In Houston. That is why Washingtonia hybrids do better along the gulf coast with high humidity. 

Edited by Collectorpalms
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Collectorpalms
On 4/30/2021 at 9:04 AM, CiprianS said:

I have an issue with my Robustas. The trunk cut one has stopped the signs of growth, I think it is dead. If that one is dead then probably I will remove also the one that shows signs of life and plant two Filifera to replace them. Where do I get two Filifera? :) Because the ones that I saw at Lowe's San Antonio had some fungus or something like that on them. I need two 5 or 10 gallon Filifera. Plus, I started to like the thick trunk of the Filifera that I see around in my area.

Post picture of your washintonia that you cut? 
 

You saw the only “real” Filifera at Lowe’s with those Canaries that I have located. Only outer leaves I saw black fungus. Easiest fix was to cut the oldest ring of leaves off. Looked most like a weird fungus as I mentioned not humidity spotting.... it may even have happened in shipment. It was black, still stuck to leaves if you tried to finger it off, new to my eyes.
 

Edited by Collectorpalms

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Chester B

These are the filifera that HomeDepot brings in to Oregon. Even with overhead protection from my porch and little watering in winter, the dampness still causes damage, especially to the spear. Our palms always come from California. 

image.jpg

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CiprianS

This afternoon I got some seeds from some Sabals that are at a shopping center/restaurants, at the intersection between Sage Road and Hidalgo Street in Houston. Are these Sabal Palmettos? From the 21 seeds that I got from the palms directly, two of them are floating and the rest are not right now. I left them in water to get soaked well, I will do the same probably tomorrow and a few days after and I will try to germinate them after.  I took from three of them, they were more there in line, but I could only reach the seeds from three of them.

What Sabals are these?

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19 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

The New Braunfels Lowe’s had Filifera last I checked unless they ran out. 

If I would have gotten also some Filifera from San Antonio/New Braunfels I would have really been single now. :D 

19 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

They are the Same shipment as the ones at the other Lowe’s in the areas. Not sure if all have spotting or fungus.

But if your going to be planting pure Filifera, you are going to always be dealing with spotting on the older leaves In Houston. That is why Washingtonia hybrids do better along the gulf coast with high humidity. 

I am fixated right now on Filifera, I don't want the Filibusta or the Robusta. :) And I will get them somehow, I have those seedlings and saplings that I got from eBay that i got them out in full sun today finally with their pots, they should start moving so that maybe next I will have some Filifera to plant. 

19 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Post picture of your washintonia that you cut? 
 

You saw the only “real” Filifera at Lowe’s with those Canaries that I have located. Only outer leaves I saw black fungus. Easiest fix was to cut the oldest ring of leaves off. Looked most like a weird fungus as I mentioned not humidity spotting.... it may even have happened in shipment. It was black, still stuck to leaves if you tried to finger it off, new to my eyes.
 

No photos now of that Washi, I will give it a few more days before I take photos again of it. With all of these rains that I had, I doubt it is doing very good anyway. :( 

I was tempted to get two Filifera, too from San Antonio but... I said no then. I spent more than what I allocated for this year, I am kind of done. 

3 hours ago, Chester B said:

These are the filifera that HomeDepot brings in to Oregon. Even with overhead protection from my porch and little watering in winter, the dampness still causes damage, especially to the spear. Our palms always come from California. 

image.jpg

Will you keep the Filifera potted or will you plant it in the ground? 

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Chester B
2 hours ago, CiprianS said:

Will you keep the Filifera potted or will you plant it in the ground?

If I stick it the ground I will have to protect from moisture during winter. Eventually I may go down that path when it gets too big for the pot. I’m thinking it’s living on borrowed time. Robusta seem to be marginally better here 

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Jtee
6 hours ago, Chester B said:

These are the filifera that HomeDepot brings in to Oregon. Even with overhead protection from my porch and little watering in winter, the dampness still causes damage, especially to the spear. Our palms always come from California. 

image.jpg

Which is strange because the filiferas in New Braunfels TX see humidity and rain in the winter but seem to thrive, although the winter temps don’t get that low. 
 

They say robustas don’t like wet cold but I’ve seen a few at least 25 feet tall or taller that have been here at least a couple decades. I’m trying a filiferas here this year so we’ll see how it likes the wet cold here. 

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Collectorpalms
39 minutes ago, Jtee said:

Which is strange because the filiferas in New Braunfels TX see humidity and rain in the winter but seem to thrive, although the winter temps don’t get that low. 
 

They say robustas don’t like wet cold but I’ve seen a few at least 25 feet tall or taller that have been here at least a couple decades. I’m trying a filiferas here this year so we’ll see how it likes the wet cold here. 

The Filifera in San Antonio do suffer from severe pseudo bark trunk damage from Humidity. There is a lot of summer daily rain in Houston from the sea breeze that San Antonio does not get. New Braunfels does not get a daily sea breeze.

The Very Large Filifera planted at the entrance of Moody Gardens have retched trunks from the Humidity, when they were installed they were Healthy. But it made them look a hundred years old in just a couple years.

Edited by Collectorpalms
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CiprianS

What are those Sabals from which I collected seeds and which I posted yesterday? Are those Palmettos? 

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Reyes Vargas
15 minutes ago, CiprianS said:

What are those Sabals from which I collected seeds and which I posted yesterday? Are those Palmettos? 

Those look like palmetto.  You should post a picture of the seeds to see the size.

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CiprianS
1 minute ago, Reyes Vargas said:

Those look like palmetto.  You should post a picture of the seeds to see the size.

They are very small. 

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Reyes Vargas
Just now, CiprianS said:

They are very small. 

They are more likely palmetto.

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joetx

CIDP Coming back in Round Rock!

 

392221B2-82C5-4BC1-810B-D5A21A038F96.jpeg

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