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Growing Brahea in Florida?


Jimbean

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This might sound like a stupid question, but can you grow Brahea spp palms in Florida? 

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Brevard County, Fl

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9 minutes ago, Jimbean said:

This might sound like a stupid question, but can you grow Brahea spp palms in Florida? 

Here is one across from Daytona International Speedway. 

03DFB220-2BA2-46EF-885A-8AD102F18C1E.png

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In general, Brahea don't do well in FL rainy, humid summers. I tried B. decumbens about 10 years ago because I was told it was likely the only Brahea that had a ghost of a chance in FL. It actually survived - never grew - for over 2 years but eventually went into a death spiral. Brahea is a genus of desert palms, I believe. Maybe someone in CA can confirm.

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Meg

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Cape Coral (It's Just Paradise)
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Zone 10A on the Isabelle Canal
Elevation: 15 feet

I'd like to be under the sea in an octopus' garden in the shade.

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6 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

In general, Brahea don't do well in FL rainy, humid summers. I tried B. decumbens about 10 years ago because I was told it was likely the only Brahea that had a ghost of a chance in FL. It actually survived - never grew - for over 2 years but eventually went into a death spiral. Brahea is a genus of desert palms, I believe. Maybe someone in CA can confirm.

That's what I was thinking too, but then again so are Washingtonia spp

Brevard County, Fl

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11 minutes ago, Jimbean said:

That's what I was thinking too, but then again so are Washingtonia spp

Yeah I think you can probably swing Brahea clara, I’ve heard they don’t mind humidity.  Other than that - this is definitely a desert-specific genus, far as I know.  Ridiculous cold tolerance, tough as nails... just hates humidity.

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1 hour ago, Jimbean said:

This might sound like a stupid question, but can you grow Brahea spp palms in Florida? 

They aren't an easy grow by any means but they have been grown.  The one in Daytona is the biggest I believe. Here's the one at Kopsick in St Petersburg not looking too shabby itself.  

1388232757_20210124_1142032.thumb.jpg.d4faa027023a9aa9c4d39d3c0f808f09.jpg

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1 minute ago, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

They aren't an easy grow by any means but they have been grown.  The one in Daytona is the biggest I believe. Here's the one at Kopsick in St Petersburg not looking too shabby itself.  

1388232757_20210124_1142032.thumb.jpg.d4faa027023a9aa9c4d39d3c0f808f09.jpg

Not shabby at all..  Been awhile but that might be the best that specimen has looked.  Will have to find pictures i have from several years ago.

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Does salt spay play any factor in survival. A few Brahea live on Galveston Island.
you mentioned the other two in Florida... near beach?

I have an Armata and Clara, the Amarta  grows black fungus on older leaves. So it’s a struggle to get more good leave than bad, which I had done! until the Texas Freeze. Now both are defoliated.

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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I have small Clara and Nitida palms from TCHP.  In full sun they don't seem to have any fungal problems...yet!  I planted my Nitida as a double in the "high and dry" area in my front yard, which is 90% pure sand.  So far they are growing ok and at a reasonable speed.  But they are only about 3' total height, so I'm not sure how they'll do in the future.

I read that Dulcis/Moorei and "Super Silver" have some fungal spotting problems but grow ok in Tampa and Ft. Myers. 

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Brahea seem to do very well in southern England and there are quite a lot of specimens dotted around now. They are pretty slow growing here though, although they don't seem to take any winter damage at all up here at 50-51N. Even after bad winters, they come out looking unscathed. People really should plant more of them, given that they are slow growers and don't take up too much space. They seem pretty damn hardy up here and are more resilient than first thought. 

But as with everything, the UK is playing catch up and we are about 10-20 years behind everyone else in the palm growing department. It was only 15-20 years ago that we didn't think CIDP or Washies could make it in London! Now they're everywhere. So we are going to need a bit more time to get some impressively large Breahea specimens established over here. It's only a matter of time though before we have some big specimens around London and southern England, even if that means waiting another 20-30 years... 

1042613280_Screenshot2021-03-14at05_36_13.thumb.png.66f4798cadf852677ff8d171a4ec012e.png.2357fb7492d199ff12b46e5d24ee3635.png

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 1937320894_Screenshot2021-03-29at00_09_23.thumb.png.908399dc6e68571d56d5b63b975f256d.png

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Kensal House in Ladbroke Grove, London

28f6c27e-28b7-4f4e-9713-5524f76cd996-1-808x454.jpg.82c711e64b49a900354266809b8ac530.jpg.7c600c0adea36e23f27676f13b112a1f.jpg

Connaught Gardens in Devon

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Brahea Brandeggei in Abbotsbury Suptoprical Garden, Dorset

796E95FC3E6D46E3977ADF54F1237EC2.jpg.5d65a287d6bb683823332cc735295333.jpg.7cb186a1f914eb3eb55bdc3061fbf675.jpg

Maidstone, Kent

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Kevin Spence's Armata near Leicestershire in the Midlands

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Paul Spracklin's Armata in Essex

IMG_20200619_160641.jpg.5454e8e4b8781e7e821a5b2d770e4a9b.jpg.b546bf79fa1e64ffd63d4592d844ae89.jpg

 

2 hours ago, Jimbean said:

This might sound like a stupid question, but can you grow Brahea spp palms in Florida? 

If they can make it here at 50-52N... they can surely make it in Florida. Although our summers here in southeastern England are pretty dry these days, akin to a Med climate. We are pretty warm and dry from April - September with most of our rainfall coming from October - February, with quite a bit of wet-cold during the winter months. Yet it doesn't seem to bother the Brahea's at all here. Whether that is due to the dry summers to compensate, I don't know....? 

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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I have had Brahea super silver in the ground for 7 years and no issues, hear in north central Florida, but it grows maybe 2-3 fronds a year. I just planted out a Brahea Clara “Icy Blue” a week ago, I’ll keep this thread updated. 

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I have 5 or six different brahea’s growing here on my property in St. Augustine, Fl. Probably 10 or so different plants. I would say they have been in the ground between 5 and ten years, unfortunately my large armata died when I was forced to transplant it. I had it for at least 15 years. I grew it from a seedling to about 7 feet overall during that time period. Very blue. It was a beautiful palm. I have another one growing but they are so SLOW. They all do fine. They are for the most part slow. Super silver is the fastest. 

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14 hours ago, Fusca said:

I believe @sonoranfans has a nice B. clara growing in Palmetto, FL.  How's it looking now Tom?

Sorry to say I yanked it.  It was manhandled in IRMA and just didnt seem to be recovering with mold spot on half the leaves.  I have seen the way these blue braheas can look in california and arizona(I had 6 armatas to 11-12 overall with ~35 leaves each, very full crowns ).  A happy brahea armata or clara is a gorgeous palm to behold.  My clara did much better than my armata that I brought from arizona, it lasted 7 years before I gave up on it.  The armata died within a year.  For me its not the challenge of getting it to live but getting it to be happy.  I dont want a palm torture camp, been there already.  Having seen how a clara can be and owning those aramtas, this florida one just disappointed me.  I did have a nearby sprinkler and it wasnt a high spot in the yard but it was my only really sunny location left at the time.  The sprinkler 12' away may have been a problem, but I have tried armata, clara and dulcis here and have decided to not fight nature any more.  If I cant fix it in 7 years, I am done.  I have 3 copernicia hospita 5-10 gallon size that will go into that spot and be happy.  The hospitas are well adapted to our humidity and rainy season. 

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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2 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Sorry to say I yanked it.  It was manhandled in IRMA and just didnt seem to be recovering with mold spot on half the leaves.

Bummer, sorry to hear.  But I agree with you, C. hospita is an excellent replacement!

Jon Sunder

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20 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Not shabby at all..  Been awhile but that might be the best that specimen has looked.  Will have to find pictures i have from several years ago.

Here's the same specimen from 07/ 19 / 2014.. Doesn't look awful, just doesn't look as nice as the more recent image.  As you can see in Pic. # 2 is labeled as B. armata, but, looks to " soft " for an armata, imo. Effects of a different growing environment perhaps?

SAM_3033.thumb.JPG.8ba87f895637e44454c87cc6cd3678dd.JPG

SAM_3032.JPG.76e78bc893260de1e7839ae23f0c01ed.JPG

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1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Here's the same specimen from 07/ 19 / 2014.. Doesn't look awful, just doesn't look as nice as the more recent image.  As you can see in Pic. # 2 is labeled as B. armata, but, looks to " soft " for an armata, imo. Effects of a different growing environment perhaps?

SAM_3033.thumb.JPG.8ba87f895637e44454c87cc6cd3678dd.JPG

SAM_3032.JPG.76e78bc893260de1e7839ae23f0c01ed.JPG

that is the greenest armata Ive ever seen.  The form is right but the color is way more green than the ones I saw out there.

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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1 minute ago, sonoranfans said:

that is the greenest armata Ive ever seen.  The form is right but the color is way more green than the ones I saw out there.

That was my thought the first time i saw this specimen..  All the ones i've seen here or in CA. are definitely bluer, but fronds also have that thick/  stiff look, rather than the more relaxed look of this one.

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15 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

That was my thought the first time i saw this specimen..  All the ones i've seen here or in CA. are definitely bluer, but fronds also have that thick/  stiff look, rather than the more relaxed look of this one.

Yes the longish, thin petioles are more reminiscent of clara than armata.  ALl my armatas had petioles of 1/2 to 2/3rds that length.  It could be a green clara, those are somewhat common, you have to look for the blue ones.  Here are a couple arizona armatas(one behind the other here).  the green fan just to the right is sabal bermudana.

 

armaas2009n3.jpg

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Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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4 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

Yes the longish, thin petioles are more reminiscent of clara than armata.  ALl my armatas had petioles of 1/2 to 2/3rds that length.  It could be a green clara, those are somewhat common, you have to look for the blue ones.  Here are a couple arizona armatas(one behind the other here).  the green fan just to the right is sabal bermudana.

 

armaas2009n3.jpg

Yep, Classic armata right there.. Agree, totally possible the Kopsick specimen might be ( < or was >, looked like the name plaque was missing in @Mr.SamuraiSword's picture ) labeled as the wrong sp. Nice regardless..

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10 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Here's the same specimen from 07/ 19 / 2014.. Doesn't look awful, just doesn't look as nice as the more recent image.  As you can see in Pic. # 2 is labeled as B. armata, but, looks to " soft " for an armata, imo. Effects of a different growing environment perhaps?

SAM_3033.thumb.JPG.8ba87f895637e44454c87cc6cd3678dd.JPG

SAM_3032.JPG.76e78bc893260de1e7839ae23f0c01ed.JPG

Seems more like B. Brandegeei with green, relaxed-looking leaves.

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36 minutes ago, howfam said:

Seems more like B. Brandegeei with green, relaxed-looking leaves.

B. brandegeei crossed my mind, but that species also has stiffer looking leaves/ skinnier trunk, at least one i've seen here..

Brahea brandegeei,  Glendale, AZ.  05/ 23/ 2020:
DSC08447.thumb.JPG.2470dfafe433a3173f2d7ab838bfb9ed.JPG

DSC08451.thumb.JPG.839b7526f8857349b8668f4f8f60ca46.JPG
 

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On 3/30/2021 at 8:56 AM, hbernstein said:

Brahea Calcarea (nitida) does great in South Florida. No problems at all.

Pictures?

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10 hours ago, howfam said:

Pictures?

Growing at a house that we sold in South Miami. Planted in 2006, trunking and looking fine. No pictures to post right now, unfortunately.

I think that Fairchild also has it.

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11 hours ago, hbernstein said:

Growing at a house that we sold in South Miami. Planted in 2006, trunking and looking fine. No pictures to post right now, unfortunately.

I think that Fairchild also has it.

The "trunking and looking fine" part is encouraging. I had seeds I bought from a California seed company a few years ago, but lost them by letting them remain in the community germination pot and not watering them. Maybe I'll try them again. 

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Here's a Brahea Armata that I photographed at Leu Gardens yesterday.  It did appear to have some fungal greyish spotting on the underside of the fans.  Coming out of winter I suppose that's not too bad.  It appeared to be in full sun, in a sandy area where it looked like the ground sloped mostly away from it.  My Armata seedlings from TCHP appear to be ok but got fungal spots last summer when I accidentally put them into a shady area in my nursery zone.  They recovered ok, but it seems they definitely need full sun.

303942415_20210402_155742BraheaArmataLeu.thumb.jpg.953c0959e5657f8950ea0d3402063473.jpg

As a comparison, here is a Copernicia Hospita about 50 yards from the above Brahea.  It's growing I think at least 1' per year and just need a few older dead fronds trimmed off.

816781942_20210402_155533CoperniciaHospitaLeu.thumb.jpg.ff4d22553ae807f23777805288cb1b3d.jpg

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On 3/29/2021 at 5:25 PM, sonoranfans said:

Yes the longish, thin petioles are more reminiscent of clara than armata.  ALl my armatas had petioles of 1/2 to 2/3rds that length.  It could be a green clara, those are somewhat common, you have to look for the blue ones.  Here are a couple arizona armatas(one behind the other here).  the green fan just to the right is sabal bermudana.

 

armaas2009n3.jpg

Well.....  that looks amazing...  

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On 3/28/2021 at 6:02 PM, PalmatierMeg said:

In general, Brahea don't do well in FL rainy, humid summers. I tried B. decumbens about 10 years ago because I was told it was likely the only Brahea that had a ghost of a chance in FL. It actually survived - never grew - for over 2 years but eventually went into a death spiral. Brahea is a genus of desert palms, I believe. Maybe someone in CA can confirm.

Maybe they'd work in Ochekkobeke.

Nothing to say here. 

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I think this is a Brahea armata at Lake Wire ( https://www.palmtalk.org/forum/index.php?/topic/61996-lake-wire-lakeland-fl/ )

20200617_200207_Brahea_armata_LakeWire_1600.jpg

Can't say it is doing great but it's there.  I saw one during our Fall 2019 CFPACS Meeting at a private garden in Cape Coral.  I'm not sure if it is still around or not.  One worth trying might be @DoomsDave's FrankenBrahea hybrids

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Lakeland, FL

USDA Zone 1990: 9a  2012: 9b  2023: 10a | Sunset Zone: 26 | Record Low: 20F/-6.67C (Jan. 1985, Dec.1962) | Record Low USDA Zone: 9a

30-Year Avg. Low: 30F | 30-year Min: 24F

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On 3/28/2021 at 9:43 PM, 8B palms said:

I have had Brahea super silver in the ground for 7 years and no issues, hear in north central Florida, but it grows maybe 2-3 fronds a year. I just planted out a Brahea Clara “Icy Blue” a week ago, I’ll keep this thread updated. 

Did you locally source your brahea's?

I would imagine locally grown armatas would be better off than something imported from AZ, TX, or CA right?

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On 3/30/2021 at 5:56 AM, hbernstein said:

Brahea Calcarea (nitida) does great in South Florida. No problems at all.

Yes I do seem to recall some of the long time palmtalkers reporting b. nitida as a good grow north of orlando about 10 years ago.  Palmpedia indicates it "hates high humidity".  It looks like to comes from the hills in western mexico, and other trees including pines and oaks survive there.  The native range of b. armata does not support oies and oaks, its a drier climate.  Maybe nitida is a good choice in florida that has previously not been widely understood.  Any pics?

Formerly in Gilbert AZ, zone 9a/9b. Now in Palmetto, Florida Zone 9b/10a??

 

Tom Blank

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10 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

 

Yes I do seem to recall some of the long time palmtalkers reporting b. nitida as a good grow north of orlando about 10 years ago.  Palmpedia indicates it "hates high humidity".  It looks like to comes from the hills in western mexico, and other trees including pines and oaks survive there.  The native range of b. armata does not support oies and oaks, its a drier climate.  Maybe nitida is a good choice in florida that has previously not been widely understood.  Any pics?

Brahea Nitida should do fine in Florida zone 9a. I have one under a live oak. I think it would grow faster in sun, it does not have issues with humidity like Brahea Armata or even Brahea Clara. 
Brahea Dulcis, Brahea Aculeata, Brahea Moorei, and Brahea Super Silver did fine for me. 

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Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

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