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PalmatierMeg

Sabals, Sabals, Sabals!

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PalmatierMeg

It's Sabal photo time! A dozen years ago a topic on any Sabal palms would have sparked yawns or sneers. Back then on PT the topic du jour was Dypsis, Dypsis, Dypsis, 24/7, 365 days a year. An island in the Indian Ocean was flooding the world with hundreds and hundreds of Dypsis palms and people were going mad. Well, not actually that many hundreds because each Dypsis species had a minimum of eight names each. And Kew recognized none of them. Good times.

That was then. Most palm lovers have come to the realization that of the estimated 2,500 species of palms in the world, 92% of them are not Dypsis and perhaps some of the less exalted genera were worthy of notice. Which brings me back to Sabals. And photos. I decided to update my photo library with photos of the Sabals on my Garden Lot. Many of them are what I call "uber dwarfs", the tiny varieties of Sabal minor named for the towns nearest where they were discovered. They have all the tenacious cold hardiness of their full-size cousins in a much smaller package.

Sabal minor 'Blountstown Dwarf' - the original uber dwarf that introduced me to the variability of this species. At least one of the little palms in the flower box will flower for the first time.

1756382529_SabalminorBlountstownDwarf0103-24-21.thumb.JPG.c31e4e0735232768d50bc20dad67ff25.JPG1017266892_SabalminorBlountstownDwarf0203-24-21.thumb.JPG.3684167b8588ed245c9377d44daf35d2.JPG

Sabal minor 'Chipola Dwarf' - slightly larger uber dwarf

1621374301_SabalminorChipolaDwarf0103-24-21.thumb.JPG.e928670d58b0d9534a2b0a4c2deb5fca.JPG708319143_SabalminorChipolaDwarf0203-24-21.thumb.JPG.2c567552fd5f5d5bd09f0b6df8226980.JPG

Sabal minor 'Wakulla Dwarf' - about the same size as Blountstown but is 60-70 miles south in FL's Big Bend

709300621_SabalminorWakullaDwarf0103-24-21.thumb.JPG.cd9484c1ed9fc4c523d43a83a6a20d39.JPG1237998481_SabalminorWakullaDwarf0303-24-21.thumb.JPG.e96c8db5054e30de04c9fc09b9675287.JPG1093577788_SabalminorWakullaDwarf0203-24-21.thumb.JPG.bede97071f0a9e92b3477271f64c8ed3.JPG

Sabal minor 'High Springs' - another slightly larger uber dwarf

701270797_SabalminorHighSprings0103-24-21.thumb.JPG.9cb0760cd019cf6ce0efd1aeb68fdf1a.JPG1975735532_SabalminorHighSprings0203-24-21.thumb.JPG.56f545f832c75552e1e95fbdfdacb74b.JPG

Sabal minor 'Welfare' - A Texas S. minor found only near the ghost town of Welfare. How cool is that? It is notable for forming a short trunk

1558611664_SabalminorWelfare0103-24-21.thumb.JPG.19ac60c47c100c82b64f73c3b221d89c.JPG1621938557_SabalminorWelfare0203-24-21.thumb.JPG.1137636011cc033feb472b53dc4e2537.JPG
 

 

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PalmatierMeg

Sabal palmetto is known to have at least several variations, i.e., the spectacular 'Lisa'. But there are others

Sabal palmetto 'Mocksville' - a distinctive looking variation from NC that may have extra cold hardiness

1499676618_SabalpalmettoMocksville0103-24-21.thumb.JPG.67ad20f43a9585ee8167ad492ce38a38.JPG1239622107_SabalpalmettoMocksville0203-24-21.thumb.JPG.b44dbca8de0e7bf6785ee151854cf1e0.JPG540354635_SabalpalmettoMocksville0303-24-21.thumb.JPG.ab800890c2c476ea06f1a7ea5e0543a8.JPG

Sabal palmetto 'DeFuniak Springs' - a variation from FL. Its strap leaves are quite blue

351046443_SabalpalmettoDeFuniakSprings0103-24-21.thumb.JPG.3441b13e2223354e82fcd1baaf87f109.JPG677718169_SabalpalmettoDeFuniakSprings0203-24-21.thumb.JPG.7fb3a2e1c78cfafe120b140ab067eab4.JPG

Sabal etonia - I'm finally getting to try the real deal

1313042576_Sabaletonia0103-24-21.thumb.JPG.d7461950ef1e1fa46540cf6d33125acb.JPG1491158937_Sabaletonia0203-24-21.thumb.JPG.5eff1fa4466bcb8850b9444e382ba210.JPG

Sabal blackburniana - So, is it domingensis, bermudana, palmetto or ???

IMG_1696.thumb.JPG.1a254117777768f1d06ec0b0533549d7.JPG1178610593_Sabalblackburniana0203-25-21.thumb.JPG.ad75b7bfa67170a18674389e25151637.JPG

Sabal gretheriae - Hard-to-find species from the Yucatan. Note how lax the leaves are.

1802289670_Sabalgretheriae0103-25-21.thumb.JPG.687551b34667975d54f004bab0ddbf11.JPG189376107_Sabalgretheriae0303-25-21.thumb.JPG.574306d3d391e53144d58cb21129c84e.JPG1021470401_Sabalgretheriae0203-25-21.thumb.JPG.532160572f006468600ce0be95f4ccde.JPG

Sabal guatemalensis - another Sabal with ID issues. Note upright leaves and l-o-n-g petioles

524767983_Sabalguatemalensis0103-25-21.thumb.JPG.b040186dc0fabdbcb31528657693d06f.JPG209669_Sabalguatemalensis0203-25-21.thumb.JPG.ced26dfad82b6f27eb8ac9afcab0443c.JPG

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OC2Texaspalmlvr

@PalmatierMeg As always thank you for displaying so many varieties of sabals. Especially for us that can't grow any dypsis =/ 

T J 

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Husain

Awesome topic about Sabal palms and from my experience most of the Sabals that I saw here in my island are hybrid and even the one that I have I am sure it is hybrid also

 

CCA42409-5DA7-40F8-9893-1BD609AA5766.thumb.jpeg.23aed4dfe38cd36a305bb307a8382f48.jpeg
 

this Sabal is beautiful with long petioles I found in one of the nurseries and below is the one that I got with extreme curved leaves close to form a circle and wide trunk base which is really weird to distinguish the type 

63027DB2-9678-441D-A061-93346FB55651.thumb.jpeg.c38fed90da124e5f68813309da3f5d52.jpeg

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PalmatierMeg

Beautiful Sabals, Husain.

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Bazza

Took this photo today at a shopping center. Just the common S. palmetto but when they are used this way and kept trimmed, IMHO, they are really quite striking as a design element.

IMG_1331.JPG

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OC2Texaspalmlvr
31 minutes ago, Bazza said:

Took this photo today at a shopping center. Just the common S. palmetto but when they are used this way and kept trimmed, IMHO, they are really quite striking as a design element.

IMG_1331.JPG

I'll say this after our crazy freeze in Texas S.Palmetto is the only landscape palm looking good right now =) 

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Dartolution

@PalmatierMeg Beautiful collection! 

My "blackburniana" from Phil at Jungle Music has done well here for its first year in the ground, having survived 16F and 36hours below freezing its first year with just a frost cloth over the top (as a precaution). How long have you had yours? Did you notice if the leaf structure was difference when it was younger?

 

 

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PalmatierMeg
13 hours ago, Bazza said:

Took this photo today at a shopping center. Just the common S. palmetto but when they are used this way and kept trimmed, IMHO, they are really quite striking as a design element.

IMG_1331.JPG

Way overtrimmed. I like the round "puffball on a stick" look.

 

8 minutes ago, Dartolution said:

@PalmatierMeg Beautiful collection! 

My "blackburniana" from Phil at Jungle Music has done well here for its first year in the ground, having survived 16F and 36hours below freezing its first year with just a frost cloth over the top (as a precaution). How long have you had yours? Did you notice if the leaf structure was difference when it was younger?

 

 

I grew it from seed from another PTer, planted it around 2015, can't remember what it looked like then. Grows slowly but is shaded by Bizzies we planted to block view of Osama bin Laden's FL Vacation Compound aka electrical substation. Apparently no one knows exactly what this palm is even now.

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PalmatierMeg

This is my Sabal blackburniana in 2014, so it was planted a couple years earlier than I said above

904892779_Sabalblackburniana012-6-14.thumb.JPG.cbb0911d66619b0b59c09fea791df068.JPG

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Bazza
2 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Way overtrimmed. I like the round "puffball on a stick" look.

 

I understand, and that is also my preference.

But in this case they have to take a different path since it's a commercial application involving a parking lot where falling fronds could (in theory) not only cause damage to private property but also create palm litter, which is unsightly, and (in theory) could negatively impact aesthetic perception.

I'll take a 10-2 cut over the 11-1 cuts that are very commonly seen any day!

:shaka-2:

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AnTonY

@PalmatierMeg

It's great that you made this thread! I've looked quite a bit at some sources,  and have an arrangement of the species based on what I could find.

  • The sabal palmetto looks very similar to sabal mexicana, except the latter is slightly shorter and stockier with longer leaf stalks. I think both look very nice, and actually quite graceful when they obtain full height.  The lisa is a cool phenotype of the palmetto, but I don't know the cold hardiness of that species relative to the original, nor have I seen good photos of the adult form.
     
  • Do you know the cold hardiness for sabal domingensis? Some sources state that it's 8a, but many on this site mention that there are burns on the plant in the low 20s. They seem to have a much larger crown and more slender trunk combination compared to either mexicana or palmetto. They can be an interesting addition to landscapes depending on their hardiness.
     
  • The mauritiiformis and yapa are both in competition as my favorites regarding the sabal palms.
     
  • Sabal minor? Meh...
     
  • With the exception of some images of juveniles, I haven't really seen too many good information and images of the other species (antillensis, bermudana, caussarium, etonia, gretheriae, maritima, miamiensis, pumos, rosei, uresana) to truly have a good opinion of them. Not a lot of detail regarding full-grown images. Also some conflicting hardiness data as with the domingensis.

I'm honestly starting to have greater appreciation of the sabal palms. And it isn't just because of cold-hardiness - I've revisited images of specimen, especially that one thread with the old specimen around Gainsville, FL, and I'm honestly starting to prefer the sabal over even the washingtonia palms (except for some robusta phenotypes).

Edited by AnTonY

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AnTonY
15 hours ago, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

I'll say this after our crazy freeze in Texas S.Palmetto is the only landscape palm looking good right now =) 

I honestly prefer the look of sabal mexicana and palmetto over all of the washingtonia species. The exception is certain phenotypes of washintonia robusta, which create an oceanic look if fully grown - otherwise, they get too "dry-looking"  if not maintained. Dates are fine, as they have a more oceanic look compared to the washingtonia.

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Phoenikakias

@PalmatierMeg can you observe any tomentum or scales along the abaxial petiole side on gretheriae and/or guatamalensis?

Edited by Phoenikakias

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Dartolution
9 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

This is my Sabal blackburniana in 2014, so it was planted a couple years earlier than I said above

904892779_Sabalblackburniana012-6-14.thumb.JPG.cbb0911d66619b0b59c09fea791df068.JPG

Thank you @PalmatierMeg that gave me a chuckle. 

I see the deep division I suspected in the leaves. 

Ill have to get an updated picture of mine on here soon. 

 

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Jan Jo

Thanks for the pics! I particularly like your Blackburniana... 

And your Guatemalensis has grown a lot since I last saw it. Is it more in shade than it used to be? 

It looks really quite different to mine (assuming mine is what I think it is), which is in full sun, and much more compact... IMG_20210328_175549_copy_1000x750.jpg.60d8cf345f40b9f4690114369189395b.jpg

IMG_20210328_175559_copy_750x1000.jpg.16dc6325169e4cf34cf793b5bfcf562c.jpg

It seems to grow, but it's taking so long to gain height... 

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Jan Jo

I thought I'd share a couple of pics of some of my other favourite Sabals, Yapa... 

IMG_20210328_175450_copy_750x1000.jpg.ec1d880420b39f74a16f0640160c5929.jpg

IMG_20210328_175456_copy_750x1000.jpg.1c0a4c526bd98022e32dc7b8941a1dfc.jpg

(sorry, not easy to photograph, it's quite hidden in my jungle) 

... And mauritiformis... 

IMG_20210328_175705_copy_750x1000.jpg.fccf69d7c23b4716a62424aad0143d0d.jpg

IMG_20210328_175712_copy_750x1000.jpg.857900f357d17e48d276b7377cc3ce63.jpg

I realise this one is a bit close to the curb, considering how big they get.. But I don't dare try to move it. 

Hope you like them... ;)

Edited by Jan Jo
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PalmatierMeg

My guatemalensis is tall enough to be in sun most of the time, esp. in summer. It's always been upright and rangy even when it was surrounded by empty space,

How fortunate you are to have S. yapa. That one is very difficult to find in the US. I wanted one since I first saw them when I went on a cruise to Cozumel and took a jungle hike years ago. Now I don't have room for one.

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PalmatierMeg

This is my first Sabal miamiensis in the Caribbean Garden as of today. Just because today was so lovely.

Sabal miamiensis, March 2021, Cape Coral, FL

653690997_Sabalmiamiensis0103-28-21.thumb.JPG.6112a6212b3409d5af2b96cf8983957e.JPG783138600_Sabalmiamiensis0203-2821.thumb.JPG.093750f8b6574f2d632a17fa4edaf862.JPG

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Husain

Is my Sabal a miamiensis also since the fronds are extremely curved but it holds more than 10 fronds which is difficult to say it is a miamiensis 

 

56AC9BAB-204D-4C5B-B43E-8BFDC47B9D81.thumb.jpeg.29f9cfaa2b27cc6b392611ff57945885.jpeg

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RJ

When your Sabal guatemalensis sets seed, please share them. I would very much like to purchase some. Everything looks fantastic as usual! :greenthumb:

Edited by RJ

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GoatLockerGuns

Moody Gardens in Galveston, TX circa November of 2017.  I believe this is a Sabal mauritiiformis (at least, that was what it was labeled).  A really monster specimen.

 

DSC_4258-3.jpg

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Collectorpalms
16 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Moody Gardens in Galveston, TX circa November of 2017.  I believe this is a Sabal mauritiiformis (at least, that was what it was labeled).  A really monster specimen.

 

DSC_4258-3.jpg

I think so, The first time I recall seeing one was the courtyard of a Marriot in Boca Raton. Too bad this sabal is so tropical! I loved its green cross pattern trunk.

Edited by Collectorpalms

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GoatLockerGuns

I have two Sabal minor in my yard.  I grew them both from seeds that I germinated in 2015.  These pictures were taken this morning about a month and a half out from the Great Texas Freeze of 2021.  They experienced about a week of freezing temperatures, snow, and freezing rain, with two nights recorded at 6F and 9F, respectively.  Only covering was a light frost cloth; no lights.  They show ZERO freeze damage, not even burnt tips on the fronds.  They look just as healthy as before the wet freeze event.  Both were pushing up spears before the event, and both spears have continued to grow post freeze.  Additionally, one has even pushed up a new spear since the event.  These two palms, as well as my Serenoa repens (green form) are, by far, the most cold hardy of the palms I have planted.  They out performed Trachycarpus fortunei (which experienced spear and frond pull), Sabal palmetto (which experienced frond burn), Sabal mexicana (which experienced frond burn), and Nannorrhops ritchiana (which experienced mild frond burn).  Real cold hardy winners here.

image.thumb.png.51b68caa20d1e2eb2dbba15500be16a5.png

image.thumb.png.26c5e1e25999a04a03e06721ecfbb394.png

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GoatLockerGuns
11 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Too bad this sabal is so tropical! I loved its green cross pattern trunk.

Agreed.  This Sabal sp. really makes a statement.  Here is a shot I took in the "Palm Canyon" area of Balboa Park, San Diego, CA circa May of 2019.  I believe it may be a Sabal mauritiiformis as well.

DSC_4205.jpg

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Valhallalla

How can things get better when one is hiking in the presence of ridiculously tall native Royal palms and fresh leaved cypress trees on a perfect weather day (yesterday)?

tLznELk.jpg

How about stumbling upon a totally unexpected Sabal palmetto "Lisa" juvenile growing wild in the middle of Fakahatchee Strand?

Needless to say I was inspecting every other S. palmetto I spotted for the rest of the day to see if there were any other Lisas in the area with no luck.

PBqPOXt.jpg

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BPTz7iH.jpg

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Dartolution
On 3/29/2021 at 3:30 PM, Husain said:

Is my Sabal a miamiensis also since the fronds are extremely curved but it holds more than 10 fronds which is difficult to say it is a miamiensis 

 

56AC9BAB-204D-4C5B-B43E-8BFDC47B9D81.thumb.jpeg.29f9cfaa2b27cc6b392611ff57945885.jpeg

@Husain I LOVE THIS, and NEED one in my life! That is some perfection! 

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Husain
5 hours ago, Dartolution said:

@Husain I LOVE THIS, and NEED one in my life! That is some perfection! 

Thank you very much 

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