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Hilo Jason

Mystery Dypsis - producing seed

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Hilo Jason

I believe this Dypsis is most likely a hybrid, if so, the seeds won’t be viable. But I’m going to attempt to germinate some just in case. 

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Hilo Jason

Here's a photo of when this palm was planted out from a busted open 15 gallon pot.   This was October 2018. 

IMG_1257.thumb.JPG.b84108365d34a31b1666fd885d4688c2.JPG

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ellidro

Damn Jason that thing is awesome! The seed and leaf structure lead me to believe there is some Lanceolata in it if it is a hybrid. Put me on the list for some seeds if they are viable.

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richnorm

Are all Dypsis F2's sterile?

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Stevetoad

Wow! That leaf structure is insane. That’s a beautiful plant whatever it is. If it produces viable seed that would be even better. Lucky that it’s in your garden. 

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James B

The massive size of the trunk and crown shaft(partial) look like Prestoniana or Robusta is part of the mix. Beautiful palm!

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Really full garden

The seeds look very similar to D. Pembana 

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Hilo Jason
1 hour ago, ellidro said:

Damn Jason that thing is awesome! The seed and leaf structure lead me to believe there is some Lanceolata in it if it is a hybrid. Put me on the list for some seeds if they are viable.

That was my guess as well.  Jeff and Suchin said this came from their Dypsis Robusta seed and there is a large Lanceolata in that area of Floribunda, so could be very possible that's what it is crossed with. 

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Hilo Jason
35 minutes ago, richnorm said:

Are all Dypsis F2's sterile?

That's what I am wondering?  Would appreciate any feedback people have here.  I know that the Teddy Bear x Triangles have been seeding for years in California and Florida and I never heard of any viable seed from those.  

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Rick Kelley

Full disclosure: I know absolutely NOTHING about fertility of hybrid palms. That said, I do know a bit about genetics in general. Plants are vastly more promiscuous regarding cross breeding to produce fertile offspring than animals. When you walk through the produce department of the grocery store, pretty much everything you see is a wildly altered variety of the ancestors that occur in nature. This is sometimes due to crossing different species. Anti-GMO folks would be horrified if they knew what has been going on during the past several thousand years of crop breeding that resulted in today's foods. Orchid hobbyists have been crossing distantly related genera to produce beautiful, new, fertile progeny for almost 200 years. Foresters have been crossing the North American chestnut to the Chinese cousin for almost a century trying to breed blight resistant trees. They are making progress and the offspring have been fertile over multiple generations of hybridizing.

With regard to palms and specifically Dypsis, here are some encouraging data from a 1997 study of DNA & chromosome content in palms (Röser, Johnson, & Hanson 1997). 

673209137_Palmchromosomenumbers.thumb.jpg.2194cd17cb3518f7333c7198343a59c8.jpg

If you focus on just the Dypsis species boxed in yellow, they all have almost the same DNA content and the same number of chromosomes. This is not sufficient to guarantee fertile seeds, but is at least encouraging. One common cause of hybrid sterility is that unequal chromosome numbers contributed from each parent are unable to line up and pair during the critical meiosis process essential to produce viable pollen and eggs. So good luck! Those seeds might have viable embryos inside. If they do germinate, I'd guess you will see great variability between siblings.

And Jason, fertile or sterile, that palm is a winner. Your entire collection is growing at a phenomenal rate. Is that Dypsis sp bejoufa off to the left? If so, that has got to qualify as warp speed. I can hardly wait to see what you do with your new property.

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Matt in OC

Holy sploosh!

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The Gerg

Man Jason, if you do have a Robusta x Lanceolata cross you’ve got one special palm. It sure is a beauty.

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John hovancsek

Cut a seed or 2 open to see if there is an embryo. If not that would be a bummer

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Palm Tree Jim
11 hours ago, Rick Kelley said:

Full disclosure: I know absolutely NOTHING about fertility of hybrid palms. That said, I do know a bit about genetics in general. Plants are vastly more promiscuous regarding cross breeding to produce fertile offspring than animals. When you walk through the produce department of the grocery store, pretty much everything you see is a wildly altered variety of the ancestors that occur in nature. This is sometimes due to crossing different species. Anti-GMO folks would be horrified if they knew what has been going on during the past several thousand years of crop breeding that resulted in today's foods. Orchid hobbyists have been crossing distantly related genera to produce beautiful, new, fertile progeny for almost 200 years. Foresters have been crossing the North American chestnut to the Chinese cousin for almost a century trying to breed blight resistant trees. They are making progress and the offspring have been fertile over multiple generations of hybridizing.

With regard to palms and specifically Dypsis, here are some encouraging data from a 1997 study of DNA & chromosome content in palms (Röser, Johnson, & Hanson 1997). 

673209137_Palmchromosomenumbers.thumb.jpg.2194cd17cb3518f7333c7198343a59c8.jpg

If you focus on just the Dypsis species boxed in yellow, they all have almost the same DNA content and the same number of chromosomes. This is not sufficient to guarantee fertile seeds, but is at least encouraging. One common cause of hybrid sterility is that unequal chromosome numbers contributed from each parent are unable to line up and pair during the critical meiosis process essential to produce viable pollen and eggs. So good luck! Those seeds might have viable embryos inside. If they do germinate, I'd guess you will see great variability between siblings.

And Jason, fertile or sterile, that palm is a winner. Your entire collection is growing at a phenomenal rate. Is that Dypsis sp bejoufa off to the left? If so, that has got to qualify as warp speed. I can hardly wait to see what you do with your new property.

Great information!

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TropicalGardenSpain

Wow that’s a beauty! Let’s hope the seeds are good :D

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Hilo Jason
On 3/18/2021 at 7:16 PM, Rick Kelley said:

Full disclosure: I know absolutely NOTHING about fertility of hybrid palms. That said, I do know a bit about genetics in general. Plants are vastly more promiscuous regarding cross breeding to produce fertile offspring than animals. When you walk through the produce department of the grocery store, pretty much everything you see is a wildly altered variety of the ancestors that occur in nature. This is sometimes due to crossing different species. Anti-GMO folks would be horrified if they knew what has been going on during the past several thousand years of crop breeding that resulted in today's foods. Orchid hobbyists have been crossing distantly related genera to produce beautiful, new, fertile progeny for almost 200 years. Foresters have been crossing the North American chestnut to the Chinese cousin for almost a century trying to breed blight resistant trees. They are making progress and the offspring have been fertile over multiple generations of hybridizing.

With regard to palms and specifically Dypsis, here are some encouraging data from a 1997 study of DNA & chromosome content in palms (Röser, Johnson, & Hanson 1997). 

673209137_Palmchromosomenumbers.thumb.jpg.2194cd17cb3518f7333c7198343a59c8.jpg

If you focus on just the Dypsis species boxed in yellow, they all have almost the same DNA content and the same number of chromosomes. This is not sufficient to guarantee fertile seeds, but is at least encouraging. One common cause of hybrid sterility is that unequal chromosome numbers contributed from each parent are unable to line up and pair during the critical meiosis process essential to produce viable pollen and eggs. So good luck! Those seeds might have viable embryos inside. If they do germinate, I'd guess you will see great variability between siblings.

And Jason, fertile or sterile, that palm is a winner. Your entire collection is growing at a phenomenal rate. Is that Dypsis sp bejoufa off to the left? If so, that has got to qualify as warp speed. I can hardly wait to see what you do with your new property.

Thanks for the info Rick!  Very helpful. 

And yeah, that is my Dypsis Bejoufa to the left. Probably my second slowest Dypsis I am growing (Leucomalla gets the #1 spot). It has been in the ground for about 3 years from a 1 gallon.  

As for my new property, I hope to have my fence completed within a month or so, and then plants will start going in the ground. Lots of planning and drawing it all out to get an idea of how I want it to look and feel. 

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Hilo Jason
On 3/18/2021 at 8:33 PM, The Gerg said:

Man Jason, if you do have a Robusta x Lanceolata cross you’ve got one special palm. It sure is a beauty.

I have another “Robusta” hybrid that is still in a pot. From a different seed batch as this one I posted in the thread. But from the same parent plant at Floribunda. 

My potted Robusta hybrid has split into two Palms. So definitely shows that it was crossed with something with multiple trunks. 

I’ll try to post a pic when it’s not raining. (Which might be awhile with the weather we’ve been having!!)

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Tracy
On 3/18/2021 at 6:31 PM, ellidro said:

Damn Jason that thing is awesome! The seed and leaf structure lead me to believe there is some Lanceolata in it if it is a hybrid. Put me on the list for some seeds if they are viable.

I'm wondering if anyone over here has acquired any of this Dypsis robusta hybrid?  If the cross is with D lanceolata, I would think it would do better than straight Dypsis robusta in our climate.

 

On 3/18/2021 at 7:33 PM, Hilo Jason said:

That was my guess as well.  Jeff and Suchin said this came from their Dypsis Robusta seed and there is a large Lanceolata in that area of Floribunda, so could be very possible that's what it is crossed with. 

The follow up question after you determine if any of the seeds appear to have embryos is whether anything else could have further cross pollinated your plant when it was flowering?  Beautiful specimen Jason!  Always enjoy seeing updates from your garden Jason.  I just wish it were a little easier to access to see in person like when you were in Fallbrook but that's my problem to solve.

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Fusca
On 3/18/2021 at 9:35 PM, Hilo Jason said:

That's what I am wondering?  Would appreciate any feedback people have here.  I know that the Teddy Bear x Triangles have been seeding for years in California and Florida and I never heard of any viable seed from those.  

 

On 3/18/2021 at 8:58 PM, richnorm said:

Are all Dypsis F2's sterile?

Not all Dypsis F2 seeds are duds.  It probably depends on the cross.  I bought some F2 seeds from @NatureGirl's hybrid and they germinated very well.  She thinks her palm is pembana x madagascariensis.

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Hilo Jason
On 3/20/2021 at 1:12 PM, Tracy said:

I'm wondering if anyone over here has acquired any of this Dypsis robusta hybrid?  If the cross is with D lanceolata, I would think it would do better than straight Dypsis robusta in our climate.

 

The follow up question after you determine if any of the seeds appear to have embryos is whether anything else could have further cross pollinated your plant when it was flowering?  Beautiful specimen Jason!  Always enjoy seeing updates from your garden Jason.  I just wish it were a little easier to access to see in person like when you were in Fallbrook but that's my problem to solve.

I remember one of the Encinitas growers on Palm Talk having a Dypsis Robusta hybrid years ago.  I wonder what that one is looking like now.  I forget who it was, but maybe this will help trigger a memory for someone and the owner can be asked for an updated photo. 

As for cross pollinating,  I don't have any Dypsis flowering anywhere near this palm.  No neighbor Dypsis in the area either.  

I will try to cut open and see if I can spot an embryo, I have never done that before so will be a learning experience.  

I hope you can come and visit the Big Island sometime soon Tracy, and that goes for any other palm talkers.  So many nice gardens here, much nicer than mine, but I am always happy to give garden tours.  

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Neil C

As stated above many times, an incredible palm.....lucky you!!!!

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Looking Glass
On 3/19/2021 at 1:16 AM, Rick Kelley said:

 Foresters have been crossing the North American chestnut to the Chinese cousin for almost a century trying to breed blight resistant trees. They are making progress and the offspring have been fertile over multiple generations of hybridizing.

The story of the once mighty American Chestnut is one of the saddest tales of modern ecological history.  If I lived in the Northeast or Appalachia, I’d be growing, and “Johnny Appleseeding” as many experimental chestnuts as I could manage.  
CAE3FD06-0C69-4DBB-9BA8-90FF53553A45.jpeg.422f8b065e9cd8ac0dbc111b46d87c7c.jpeg

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