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Lots of big CIDP's in London now


UK_Palms

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Here is a catalog of all the bigger CIDP's around London and their locations, so that they can be monitored moving forward. It also helps for people to know where they can find them exactly, should they be in the area and decide to visit some. Many of these CIDP's are not well known, so I will be photo-documenting and logging quite a lot of fairly large specimens in the city and suburbs.

Starting with the one at Lambeth Bridge...

774985211_LambethBridgeCIDP.png.55e805f155b76e798bdbf9d7c1954748.png

 

River Gardens, Fulham

872062833_FulhamCIDP.jpg.e4f87558714e7cdbad6cc5ea9c6ec677.jpg

 

Hollands Park

1941278214_HollandsParkCIDP.jpg.e3c0d0e2d263628d9fbb96240eaa7b63.jpg

 

Kensington

767630_Screenshot2021-03-12at00_05_01.thumb.png.59f71f39848c58e3065329295e583da2.png

20180711_165540.jpg.9cf80fb35056e4d210e83c54ba41eafb.thumb.jpg.a106eda928fc88193820f455058a57ee.jpg

1977334834_Screenshot2021-03-12at00_09_02.thumb.png.aafce31e2e2ee00c5e0113d05a16a45b.png

902511455_Screenshot2021-03-12at00_10_11.thumb.png.d557af96bb543caad63b8e47da4918bb.png

1881574344_Screenshot2021-03-11at23_14_09.thumb.png.d08e92e49f540daaa231e6eec8b48474.png

These CIDP's on the intersection are fruiting profusely and producing viable seed...

1909665559_Screenshot2021-03-11at23_15_13.thumb.png.c552f24dc3d2566fe8ac0a7aae258392.png

Another one further down the street...

12822677_Screenshot2021-03-11at23_41_11.thumb.png.55b81f82d986f0be24a070ff754d4ad7.png

 

There's two big CIDP's outside Hackney town hall. They've been there about 20 years. 

1521312493_HackneyCIDP.jpg.fa78747d34d2956fda4faf80c3984ee6.jpg

1725815257_Screenshot2021-03-11at23_01_41.thumb.png.b8f1e81ef48a3c193d3335492ce69669.png

 

Egerton Place

1901995442_EgertonPlace.jpg.dff382e8aa9abe4dd2d485de19efd3cd.jpg

It's in need of a trim, which will make the trunk look even bigger...

1175388436_Screenshot2021-03-11at23_08_27.thumb.png.6ef9d8c77456373ec60ec5915f6acc67.png

1055918451_EgertonPlaceCIDP2.thumb.jpg.07de99d91206896d2fd215c771ba63e3.jpg

 

Mount Street gardens, Mayfair

1143757451_MayfairCIDP.jpg.0b9010f3d317457647e1efe4a3bd0c8c.jpg

 

Notting Hill

2047472601_NottingHillCIDPs.jpg.226b6e6d73efc51e1fbd5517eac51c16.jpg

 

Richmond

1983181547_RichmondCIDP.thumb.png.ef1315b07cf5bba5ae47c53bd12b8d28.png

 

White City, west London

1926355595_Screenshot2021-03-12at03_11_11.thumb.png.627ad5b3cc1ac467888df235a25b2bf9.png

 

Clapham

135055173_ClaphamCIDP2.thumb.png.45b84ddebc4fdfed19875b480ad46d2e.png

 

Next to a church in Ealing, West London.

1663655096_EalingCIDP.thumb.png.8492516748b768cba57d61c1d868f6e7.png

 

Next to Wimbledon fire station. 

1777015468_WimbledonFireStation.thumb.png.f42b1a4ba55332ffe89a1c1ea4ee5364.png

 

People's back gardens in Bermondsey, south west London

Bermondsey.thumb.png.1e879ea3766e9299e06150ee1c53a1ec.png

 

Wapping, East London

2045122131_WappingCIDP.jpg.20420be58185612dfa2433f09cd06681.jpg

 

Eaton Square...

Dsmt8x1W0AUeYCF.thumb.jpg.b105c3c56fbb0d9cb11106513791cf72.jpg

thumbnail_image0.jpg.eb927ea71dec100f005f5ce4e25b2e0c.jpg

1441084079_Screenshot2021-03-12at02_59_31.thumb.png.d688e0621bebcbaaafae7bddc37f95e2.png

 

Islington

thumbnail_image0-2.thumb.jpg.dde3f1972a81cccc0e96f8b8b10656de.jpg

 

North Kensington...

609002605_LadbrokeGroveCIDP.thumb.jpg.bddef5bc7bb5726f86be34633d8b2d3a.jpg

 

Clapham again...

thumbnail_image1.thumb.jpg.09db66901b49d2138a80e294c24faac8.jpg

 

Camberwell...

281845166_Screenshot2021-03-12at01_35_00.thumb.png.2de1ce211658956b2bbbc98cdf14d2c7.png

1938186134_Screenshot2021-03-12at01_36_51.thumb.png.79608f6d1242d8382640678b7321193e.png

 

Southwark...

295411014_Screenshot2021-03-12at02_32_02.thumb.png.a279ab57df86963ec81b0b237c97762e.png

 

East Dulwich

thumbnail_image0-3.jpg.e814fa2f2daabb15ff1322edebb3229f.jpg

 

Croydon

thumbnail_image1-2.jpg.f681017c3faa1582b6ccc24ae83f565a.jpg

 

Apartments in Fulham

393011933_FulhamCIDP2.thumb.png.c6f1eff056aced3f87afca102af41a37.png

204609589_St.PetersTerraceSW67JS.thumb.jpg.89c9967e998f43d68b4645320eb220b8.jpg

 

St. Annes in Notting Hill

213600778_Screenshot2021-03-11at23_57_02.thumb.png.e0ff63415366c3e3657196206fdbf578.png

919755578_Screenshot2021-03-11at23_59_16.thumb.png.e58a2a45c85c69e10d2fe23329ac08d0.png

 

Front gardens kitted out...

1651682839_Screenshot2021-03-09at00_11_40.thumb.png.cf34e66268b2f913e3d893f9f15bab0d.png

 

Earlsfield

thumbnail_image0-1.thumb.jpg.c43280c16158b986898d424452459999.jpg

 

Another in Notting Hill...

1977682248_Screenshot2021-03-12at02_07_39.thumb.png.f6778cc4ac0b82bdcab9cb0d96d85a70.png

thumbnail_image2-1.thumb.jpg.57107fcad605934e080f2d348e6fa4fe.jpg

 

A back yard in the London suburb of Leyton...

2884-13.thumb.jpg.9abe612588dcf5f82939ef5059eaf831.jpg

 

Decent sized specimen in Walworth...

403054147_Screenshot2021-03-12at00_56_14.thumb.png.7b298477603f3663539c418db71ef324.png

 

That will do for now. I will upload the rest tomorrow as there are tons of other CIDP's in people's gardens/yards. I've barely scratched the surface on the London CIDP's yet...

 

 

Edited by UK_Palms
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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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Very robust looking cidp's  they obviously enjoy the climate.

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Jupiter FL

in the Zone formally known as 10A

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Here are a bunch of big CIDP's in London residential areas, which were probably planted as small palms about 10-15 years ago. All of these pictures are from London...

Peckham

1691004193_PeckhamCIDP.thumb.png.7a9ed3724f2b5cfc72ac961d290f829e.png

 

Clapham

120923016_Screenshot2021-03-12at21_00_55.thumb.png.ded034905cc0fda86ea5ec968b8061ce.png


Forest Hill

1409498538_Screenshot2021-03-11at02_35_50.thumb.png.c9cd17b98c16c3372d9e1d3df94a05b3.png

 

Abbey Wood

2036300977_Screenshot2021-03-12at19_51_04.thumb.png.6806e911d4dbbde0e4076ab05cb6e177.png

 

Catford

536626357_CatfordCIDP.thumb.png.702e75a4a9b6b12d17dad27dc540ca42.png

 

Chiswick

492869547_ChiswickCIDP.thumb.png.844be7384533fec0875e9b304cf84860.png

 

Tooting

1037428178_Screenshot2021-03-11at00_55_02.thumb.png.1fddf458d6b37fb4bd10c0d17aea3e02.png

 

Clapham

1771788487_ClaphamCIDP.jpg.d7782705320a2d9b0ea4b1fd6be31ce2.jpg

 

Catford

279805269_Screenshot2021-03-11at02_18_30.thumb.png.6d50eb0c8e4ef4f800c6e6f5e5baabad.png

 

Roseneath Road SW11

1784994512_RoseneathRoadSW11.thumb.jpg.53f216a131067b23d9c6cc6763113612.jpg

 

Church Lane, Teddington

1663351815_ChurchLaneTeddington.jpg.52c247b5d9db4a32c68797a6f0de904d.jpg

 

Holland Park

339735233_Screenshot2021-03-10at04_38_11.thumb.png.a76ae998f842fb03e0448354b2d7fdce.png

 

Enfield

PAG200147_18.thumb.jpg.08ecca32cbf5b33fb550359a9217665a.jpg

 

Victoria Park

1778741192_Screenshot2021-03-10at04_17_19.thumb.png.ae93b400ade11664d4d8b0b89efe12dc.png

 

This image is from way back in 2011. No idea where it is in London, but if it is still there it is going to be massive now. I suspect it is out there somewhere, just waaaaay bigger...

882430980_2011image.thumb.jpg.574381738549e6348c350cbf9160b338.jpg

 

North Kensington

1928736947_Screenshot2021-03-11at21_54_12.thumb.png.1cc1dd0b75df99d4849a2aee13b2f002.png

 

The London councils are planting them as 'street trees' in places..

29684538_Screenshot2021-03-12at21_55_26.thumb.png.d8b822e2ac7519ae27f99534f2dc4999.png

1648356700_Screenshot2021-03-12at21_53_08.thumb.png.edca591671b23aa9fb648ffc9301ba51.png

 

Brixton

thumbnail_image2-2.thumb.jpg.7d3989c2d08cafb091172609a23b9024.jpg

 

Chelsea Physic Garden

chelseaphysicgarden.jpg.c74b6a611c90734cd4a89a49c492ea19.jpg

 

Peckham Rye

930616593_Screenshot2021-03-11at01_57_07.thumb.png.f7bf5ab004af46387768e86c7ba58bc1.png

 

Isle of Dogs, east London

2091769317_IsleofDogsCIDP.thumb.jpeg.5f0de97d93e8e61cb720fd36e3b7fcc7.jpeg

 

White City (London)

556945048_Screenshot2021-03-12at20_36_52.thumb.png.c1313f975d4ec24d1a06637dc57bbf46.png

 

Rotherhithe

736853076_RotherhitheCIDP.thumb.png.1294dd9fdeca49ad8378f5e7aa3ad5fb.png

 

Catford

1527828045_Screenshot2021-03-10at03_14_01.thumb.png.5e84473206989158604ed8c635e566ab.png

 

Rupert Cavendish's Earl's Court garden with a nice CIDP

Penywern-SW5-new-london-apartment-019-768x500.jpg.496ac62c64664a884a9d46e6e20a69d5.jpg

Which is massively overshadowed and dwarfed by his magnificent Washingtonia Robusta

1107014311_TamasTothPhotography013.thumb.jpg.3e806422d41700a6850413492d70fc6c.jpg

 

Lambeth

450363032_Screenshot2021-03-12at21_12_28.thumb.png.aaebb54195746e2c7a06d677f4e4852b.png

 

Buckmaster Road, Battersea SW11

Cd4jIBhDJ_2250_85_32_c.thumb.jpg.329cfb3fc704244ea9c9bbdf20d03177.jpg

 

Belgravia gardens

merlin_149624673_28296308-de4e-49f8-bfc9-ba4ec5c050ee-superJumbo.thumb.jpg.af2841bc6565c5712eddff2a3218329c.jpg

 

More to follow, of course...

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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What is the lowest temperature these CIDP have experienced? What is London’s all time record low, and days below freezing? To me it looks like it’s been above -6/7C for several years at least to have such full crowns.

I have two CIDP, that just went through a low of -15C, and 8 consecutive days below freezing in zone 8B Texas. They were over 20 years old.

Edited by Collectorpalms
  • Upvote 1

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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Gorgeous specimen in Finsbury Park, north London

1016292954_Screenshot2021-03-13at15_08_01.thumb.png.ba121bb2e1004bb8d2ec1086c7222d5e.png

 

A big CIDP growing next to the Royal Gate Apartments in South Hackney. The trunk is huge, but hidden by the fence and bushes. 

1546193498_Screenshot2021-03-13at14_44_21.thumb.png.2b7ec929b4a917d5310806d377126d79.png

 

This steetview image from Kentish Town, North London is now 3 years old, so this specimen must be a lot bigger by now...

530780608_Screenshot2021-03-13at17_24_37.thumb.png.a9aa81a158910c4ccc23eac33d4d13d5.png

 

Alloway Road, London E3

302787714_AllowayRoadE3.thumb.jpg.5ffc6dc19804907f05bee3a2bfe2e018.jpg

 

Princess Diana Playground at Hyde Park

1188202544_Screenshot2021-03-13at21_29_30.thumb.png.7d3bd7613ff216b6424400b7005d7329.png

There's two more in the background...

20190913131929-2.thumb.jpg.9daff8ffb08ff0c517883a27605e6475.jpg

 

London borough of Hackney again

1972306704_Screenshot2021-03-13at14_58_23.thumb.png.e02957ec8d7aba4a4b694109d6ceedd3.png

 

I'm surprised this one in Acton has evaded the chainsaw man in recent years...

330385002_Screenshot2021-03-13at12_33_52.thumb.png.20a522c3848ffbb26ed42cf3c8966892.png

 

Canning Town, London

1442888222_Screenshot2021-03-13at01_58_30.thumb.png.ecdbddfed62beca611d5c3d88c17b3d9.png

 

Seeley Road, Croydon (London) SW17

1390298612_SeeleyRoadCroydonSW17.thumb.jpg.9ab9ac04796426332dcc2a1d6530fe7c.jpg

 

Grenwich

311655791_Screenshot2021-03-13at19_25_07.thumb.png.2164a0a8c991917333f1e5c62c65ea2f.png

 

Knightsbridge

Knightbridge.thumb.jpg.ed6684fe187a35bc3fbf32825893731d.jpg

 

South Bank

2079285089_Screenshot2021-03-13at03_28_14.thumb.png.156d6f71af6fdb919d59d11c81ae354c.png

 

Barking

1324714274_Screenshot2021-03-13at01_30_15.thumb.png.9ff93c4486e4de8df66e9ccb8fe9fa2d.png

 

Queens Park NW6

550445561_Screenshot2021-03-13at03_33_42.thumb.png.a8a2db6d7822ac0b2607ce7788bbf964.png

 

Brompton Park Crescent

1424468310_BromptonParkCrescent.thumb.jpg.ec060bda802760235c3e21a048973759.jpg

 

Ilford

1015510987_Screenshot2021-03-13at17_08_41.thumb.png.52d24a8c65220039d462049ece9d1539.png

 

Marylebone

609142863_Screenshot2021-03-13at13_02_52.thumb.png.e0cd18bf90f26c06356ba5b68ba2c3a7.png

 

Surbiton (south west suburbs)

325873204_Screenshot2021-03-13at15_25_24.thumb.jpeg.0c8d71aa1daecddd4e2750e30fdbe99b.jpeg

 

One of two CIDP's planted outside the Natural History Museum. This picture is 3 years old now, so they will be bigger...

planters-april-18-pr-full-width.jpg.thumb_1160_1160.thumb.jpg.7c9a57a4e21c6e224d5b886d41c6d446.jpg

 

This is the Park Inn Hotel at Heathrow airport. The picture is 4 years old now but the palm is still there and way bigger looking at the aerial images. 

1146639452_Screenshot2021-03-13at22_17_53.thumb.png.90abcbaee15426a5ed20ab0dce7aed83.png

 

Brixton

brixton-street-pics-jan-2021-04.jpg.b0589480aa3655d694dcceefa30528c3.jpg

 

The Notting Hill - Ladbroke Grove - Kensal Rise area is a bit of a CIDP hotspot...

1292484918_Screenshot2021-03-13at14_04_36.thumb.jpeg.b1c5410429c3cc63669443d71fad53be.jpeg

 

Several CIDP's growing near the Ladbroke bridge

2078192621_Screenshot2021-03-13at13_26_48.thumb.png.083c2b39534a4150069c5a17d4cf9a44.png

Here's one of them...

thumbnail_image0.thumb.jpg.50042768cce1586e14b6744570cd3bc5.jpg

 

Hackney canal

865444078_Screenshot2021-03-11at01_42_05.thumb.png.c4c7562547cdd33478b2f413d77e608f.png

 

The Lewisham area of London is also a bit of a palm hotspot as well these days...

1943400492_Screenshot2021-03-13at03_14_00.thumb.png.ff803bc232bfc6bdfa8611f07a779223.png

 

A monster in the making in this Lewisham back yard.... good heavens... that fence is almost 15 foot high...

888556033_Screenshot2021-03-13at03_03_16.thumb.png.bd74e3b5badb75d810a25fe6e018ca76.png

 

Lewisham again and certainly one spot to keep an eye on in the years to come...

2051691900_Screenshot2021-03-13at03_07_12.thumb.png.39f0770ca034d62fc90ef735d9d98b3f.png

 

Here's the exact location (street view) of that big Tulse Hill specimen...

734412356_Screenshot2021-03-13at18_26_31.thumb.png.85ee8660034cac1c042bf690350085ce.png

 

I've still got more photos to add, but this lot will have to do for now. I have cataloged and photo documented plenty of London CIDP's now, so they can be closely monitored via streetview/maps and by people visiting them, while they continue to grow and thrive. It will be interesting to see what the landscape looks like in say... another 10 years from now...

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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6 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

What is the lowest temperature these CIDP have experienced? What is London’s all time record low, and days below freezing? To me it looks like it’s been above -6/7C for several years at least to have such full crowns.

I have two CIDP, that just went through a low of -15C, and 8 consecutive days below freezing in zone 8B Texas. They were over 20 years old.

 

Well I live out in the rural countryside, about 30 miles southwest of central London and the coldest I have ever seen here is -11C in December 2010 and February 2018. The coldest the outer suburbs of London saw back then was about -8C, with the inner suburbs seeing about -6C and central London only going down to about -4C or -5C. So the UHI clearly has a massive effect, even in the outer suburbs. Although London is also much closer to the coast than I am here, which is why east London is always a bit warmer than west London in winter, with the opposite being true in summer. London's proximity to the coast and the massive UHI that 20 million people generate clearly helps those CIDP survive long term there and thrive. 

Officially, the record low for London is -16C but that was set in the northwestern inland suburbs that are higher elevation and a notorious frost pocket. I think St. James Park and London City airport only went down to about -3.5C or something during the 2010 and 2018 freezes. Those parts of central and eastern London, especially along the river Thames, are actually 10a zones most winters nowadays. Central and eastern London in general is 9b. The outer suburbs are pretty much all 9a. Where I am here out in the rural country with no UHI, I am either 8b or 9a. It's usually 9a here for me, but I will experience an 8b winter every 3 years or so. Due to me having no UHI effect here, I can get hammered on clear winter nights, during radiational cooling. I may go down to -6C here when central London is hovering around 0C. So central London can be as much as 6 - 7C warmer than me on my coldest of nights. 

The two big CIDP's outside Hackney Town Hall have been there for over 20 years and were planted in the late 90's. Since then they have survived the record cold in 2010 when they were much smaller back then. Most of the CIDP's in this thread probably haven't seen anything below -6C. Some in the outer suburbs may have seen the odd -8C, but not many. Some of the central London ones have probably only ever seen -4C or -5C. Of course you can't rule out a freak, record cold freeze happening again, but the fact that the UK is an island, combined with us having the jet and gulf streams, as well as London's massive UHI effect... well I just can't see any amount of cold fazing those big CIDP now. Not at those sizes. Plus we just don't get the continental polar vortex's that you guys can get over in North America. 

The two Hackney specimens...

821382031_Screenshot2021-03-14at01_10_24.thumb.png.9282cf326a20d2d8bc2591c6901c9c78.png

1019864851_Screenshot2021-03-14at01_11_44.thumb.png.401b18e3542e99a1596fe6f6703ff5b1.png

 

There is yet another big CIDP literally just around the corner from the town hall, outside the 'Old Ship Inn' pub...

442206121_COVID19_Wedding_Intimate_Wedding_Hackney_Town_Hall_eva-photography_000332.jpg.474e9995df02f9ac082a6666e4afb22e.jpg

277315176_Screenshot2021-03-14at01_30_20.thumb.png.eb041f00f3bf80dc187a3b22e1521a51.png

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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I remember seeing lows around -5c in the forecast this past January or Feb I believe for London with snow on the ground multiple days. While these are very nice, extremely hardy palms like CIDP and Trachycarpus seem to be among the anomalous few that could survive and grow to be decent specimens in such damp cold winters. How cold did it actually get this winter?

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6 minutes ago, Matthew92 said:

I remember seeing lows around -5c in the forecast this past January or Feb I believe for London with snow on the ground multiple days. While these are very nice, extremely hardy palms like CIDP and Trachycarpus seem to be among the anomalous few that could survive and grow to be decent specimens in such damp cold winters. How cold did it actually get this winter?

Yes, this winter just gone was significantly colder than the two previous record mild winters of 2019 and 2020. Ultimately though, it wasn't actually that bad for London and southern England. There was a bit of snow and about 48 hours below freezing, but no temperatures below -4C for central and eastern London and only about -5C for suburban areas. Established CIDP's wouldn't bat an eyelid at those temperatures, or even that duration.

London's palms would have experienced colder conditions in 2010 and 2018, when they also would have been smaller. Yet they came through those freeze events just fine. I honestly don't think this winter will faze any of them. The fact that some have been there for 20+ years now reaffirms that. They would have seen worse in the past, during previous winters, when they were much smaller as well. So this winter was barely a test for them. 

Regarding temperatures, Heathrow in the western, inland suburbs went down to -6C this winter. The St. James Park and Kew Gardens stations both went down to -5C. The lowest temperature at London City Airport was -4C. Westminster, Waterloo and the Natural History Museum (south Kensington) only went down to -3C. Those are the central London areas with the greatest UHI effect in winter. I doubt the CIDP's in central London even took damage. Some of the ones in the suburbs may have took a little bit of damage, but they'll be fine.

Basically none of the palms shown in these pictures saw anything lower than -5C or -6C. Most would have seen about -4C. I am 30 miles outside of central London in the rural countryside with no UHI effect. The lowest I saw here was -6.8C. London would have been at least 2-3C warmer on any given night this winter.  I have a small CIDP in the ground here and it has only taken a bit of damage to the outer fronds and is now pushing a new spear again.

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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@UK_Palms! Wow!

I’be run out of expletives.

Do keep the pictures coming.

Any other palms like Braheas or Sabals?

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4 minutes ago, DoomsDave said:

@UK_Palms! Wow!

I’be run out of expletives.

Do keep the pictures coming.

Any other palms like Braheas or Sabals?

 

Dave, off the back of my mind I don't know of any Sabal's around London, but I'm sure these is a few out there... somewhere. There are however quite a few Braheas dotted about...

 

Kew (Richmond) in London

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Wimbledon, London

1042613280_Screenshot2021-03-14at05_36_13.thumb.png.66f4798cadf852677ff8d171a4ec012e.png

 

Kensal House in Ladbroke Grove, London

28f6c27e-28b7-4f4e-9713-5524f76cd996-1-808x454.jpg.82c711e64b49a900354266809b8ac530.jpg

 

This is about 20 minutes outside of London in Kent

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Connaught Gardens in Devon

IMG_20201014_125953.jpg.5ddb8b1a72e78b1d38e409e45c094236.jpg

 

Brahea Brandeggei in Abbotsbury Suptoprical Garden, Dorset. 

796E95FC3E6D46E3977ADF54F1237EC2.jpg.5d65a287d6bb683823332cc735295333.jpg

 

Brahea Armata in Southsea, Portsmouth

Southsea00.jpg.cb0743b28cef1f591ca7fdddf7353c72.jpg

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I would like to know where this is in Kent as the picture is about 5-6 years old now and surely much bigger. Our good pal Axel found it, at least I think, so he probably knows it's location...?

562d2b2d0f0d8_2015-10-132011-4920Merewood20Fat20Brahea.thumb.jpg.10715ebdbd9d71eefec9a6b76b5034df-1.jpg.c2b26f17ddfe44917cb6b431817e57b5.jpg

 

Paul Spracklin's garden in Essex, just east of London...

IMG_20200619_160641.jpg.5454e8e4b8781e7e821a5b2d770e4a9b.jpg

 

Give us another 10 years or so, since we are kind of playing catch up over here, on this side of the pond! We are fast getting zone pushers established here though, whether that is Brahea, Butia, Chamaerops, Jubaea, Phoenix, Washingtonia etc. Our UK palm enthusiasts are growing bigger specimens, and more of them, every passing year. 

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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Moving away from London for a moment, here are some more CIDP's from around southern England... all along the south coast...

Eastbourne

184367205_Screenshot2021-03-13at23_56_26.thumb.png.a53ca632ef12d9ff87086fdf7d26e0b6.png

 

Southsea, Portsmouth

334577374_Screenshot2021-03-14at00_00_29.thumb.png.922d59304d54a88ca9d2dcb7d5be8b9f.png

69714785_Screenshot2021-03-14at00_13_28.thumb.png.ff34f16594a6175e144077adb76c7339.png

There's 7-8 big ones growing along the parade, near the sea front.

932472963_Screenshot2021-03-14at00_02_25.thumb.png.1fe03dbd5b5f385e14274983336346a9.png

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It's hard to believe that they once looked like this back in 1998...

scan0001.thumb.jpg.8e0faaa6d0341fb9e619cb3cdfeaf159.jpg

But now they look like this...

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1018668938_Screenshot2021-03-14at17_30_23.thumb.png.9b239f660e05c89ea54aeb4b0ed10afa.png

These ones are even further down the road... all looking great...

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1760014648_Screenshot2021-03-14at00_06_14.thumb.png.83d9d506c7ae1cc6f613c076a8dcc0a4.png

 

Isle of Wight

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939108676_Screenshot2021-03-14at03_58_03.thumb.png.827ad93a81ec04158790280268409604.png

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Weymouth

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These ones in Weymouth look to be about 5-10 years behind the much more impressive Southsea ones...

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Torquay

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Right on the beachfront...

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Kings gardens...

thumbnail_image0-39.jpg.35d84dad54ca291eded61f9c3d1d8862.jpg.a0d031c428be70ed333dd82c023cc1bf.jpg

More near the esplanade...

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English countryside backdrop in winter... (this is well inland from the coast)...

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Here is the big Torquay CIDP in a private garden, back in 2010. I think it is over 100 years old now and it's probably the biggest on the UK mainland. I would love to see a more recent picture of it, up close with trunk and all...

49781185.torquaycidp2.jpg.f0c47a2e217fb6bb10d55ba8eeb703b9.jpg

You can still see it towering above the houses on the most recent street view, with its bright orange inflorescence...

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A bizarre Phoenix (possibly hybrid) in Weston-Super-Mare, Somerset. These photo's came via 'Trigerr' on the EPS.

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There's a gorgeous specimen at Blenheim Gardens in Minehead as well...

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Cornwall obviously has quite a few big ones...

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p1000047.thumb.jpg.388847e09925a477bfcc3c5688643ab8.jpg

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Morrab Gardens, Cornwall...

1411325095_Date_palm_in_Morrab_Gardens_Penzance.thumb.jpg.06fe6ca16c7b638623726a63c5c55378.jpg

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One place that nobody ever gets to see is the islands of Guernsey and Jersey in the English Channel. Technically it is part of the UK. There are some big and nice looking CIDP's there...

St. Paul's, Guernsey

208483614_a5fe32ba3db773bcbf9f644a0748b1ac2.thumb.jpg.37e7ceb1e7ec8a47c934a9f355f27f40.jpg

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Check out this beast on Guernsey...

DQOKbL8WAAE14EG.thumb.jpg.8c648af04c2ef0e9d876052286a18e87.jpg

Another big one in Guernsey at Candie Gardens, although looking at that trunk it may well be on borrowed time...

4905651729_a9f2f98997_b.jpg.a6073359400c5e9882ff8b1ff4f492de.jpg

These pictures are from 2009 at the hidden Victorian Garden in Rozel Bay, Jersey. Possibly a Dacty hybrid? I would love to see a more recent image, if any exist...?

DSCN1579.jpg.30feb5a9028351ca91dba962a8acb734.jpg\

DSCN1575.jpg.7e32f1ebe3310c4c8920f610fb1e6a8c.jpg

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Gorey, Jersey

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Gorey-Alice-sat-on-bench-min.thumb.jpg.045904974f099e414bc676c5c5385924.jpg

Street view only goes back to 2010, but there is another huge CIDP and two big Washies on the side of a cliff near these last few pics

 

Obviously the UK's biggest CIDP's are found at the Abbey Gardens on Tresco, Isles of Scilly... need I say more...

tresco-abbey-gardens.thumb.jpg.f9346faf512c2745e2698719a0a07212.jpg

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Edited by UK_Palms
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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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These are some lovely palms, yet i cant help but notice that compared to our ones down under they are puny and small. I think it has something to do with the hotter weather and hot air? keep trying but they have nothing on the ones i own and tend to.

Kind Regards, Rob

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They look far more impressive than most all of the Phoenix I see here in the southern USA, which are generally uglier and punier and I say that even removing hybridization issues. Many you have captured rival Northern California and Southern Oregon specimens I have seen in person.  Clearly they prefer the cooler climate.  I have a few 15 years in the ground from 15 gallon pots and they simply do not grow nearly as fast here.  Light soils, too much heat in summer, and too much cold in our very short winters 

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Some lovely pictures representing the considerable number of magnificent CIDP that flourish in southern england including London.   They are a very common sight in gardens and parks close to my own locality where I have lived for quite some time - benefitting not from urban heat because it is semi-rural  - but coastal modification which has quite an effect on reducing frequency and intensity of frosts.  

Consideration towards continental European style summers with greater sunshine hours and heat relative to other parts of the UK is one main factor contributing to the staying power of these palms - and which equips them to deal with the occasional freezes that come their way in sporadic winters as well as the generally dull, chilly, windy and perpetually soggy conditions that prevail most commonly at that time of the year and which do not ideally suit the requirements of a palm such as CIDP (and others of course).

It is ironic that CIDP are flourishing and with numbers increasing all the time in southern england in these favoured places, and where there is also not (yet)  the threat of red palm weevil that has decimated so many CIDP across wide areas much closer towards their native home in southern europe, and has been slowly extending northwards in recent years and is now found not far at all the other side of the English channel in Western France.

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The photograph of one of the Southsea Phoenix canariensis when small was taken by me & is from spring 1997 after their first winter (they were planted in 1996).

Also the Phoenix in Weymouth were planted at that size as they were imported for the Olympics in 2012 as the sailing events took place in Weymouth & Portland. They don't seem to have grown very much in that time, which is I guess a lesson that it's better to plant them as small plants as they establish better & grow faster that way.

Malta - USDA Zone 11a

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  • 2 weeks later...

Our good friend RH GROWS has just uploaded a close up of the River Gardens CIDP in Fulham, London. If the skirt was trimmed back more, the trunk would look way bigger...

More from London...

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2088308687_Screenshot2021-03-15at00_01_53.thumb.png.250143c92bbef0c2aab3fb1a896dcbf1.png

1181073640_Screenshot2021-03-23at02_11_21.thumb.png.5db6e06b6fb11b958e878a9faaadfe21.png

Same road, 10 houses down...

445568286_Screenshot2021-03-23at02_13_15.thumb.png.ec43c4a2b05465102b0c4ba180229072.png

1355433144_Screenshot2021-03-23at03_09_14.thumb.png.6fce6295a040db377e43020062e802c3.png

Possible CIDP x Dacty hybrid on the outskirts of southeastern London, but the 7-8 foot trunk is obstructed by building works and a wall...

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Portsmouth again...

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Essex and Kent...

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Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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A few more from London...

132398717_Screenshot2021-04-01at22_57_10.thumb.png.20bd5071d8ea395159db686b973a5091.png

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1259737898_Screenshot2021-04-01at23_17_28.thumb.png.cfa319c126961fafc6fa3a59f592a431.png

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  • 1 month later...

More impressive specimens coming out of London...

2030087350_Screenshot2021-05-06at22_39_59.thumb.png.8c088faeca1cc433da751988bb8e78aa.png

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1349906961_Screenshot2021-05-08at17_55_25.thumb.png.ef9ea22524df5f2f5a0ed64373bb5f78.png

Location for the Holland Park beasts...

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The street view image below is 4 years old and they are much bigger now...

356557737_Screenshot2021-05-09at03_20_35.thumb.png.20824dfa63b092eba1f71a11d2f0c842.png

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That one on Addison Road is a contender for most trunk, though it has quite an airy crown.  Not even many in Torquay have that much trunk.

Manchester, Lancashire, England

53.4ºN, 2.2ºW, 65m AMSL

Köppen climate Cfb | USDA hardiness zone 9a

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4 hours ago, Ryland said:

That one on Addison Road is a contender for most trunk, though it has quite an airy crown.  Not even many in Torquay have that much trunk.

That Addison Road one has been too heavily pruned to make the trunk look bigger and to give it the 'pineapple' appearance. The crown should fill out again nicely this summer though. It's also still settling in from a transplant a few years back. I think they were brought over from Spain. Pretty much all of the London CIDP's were planted as tiny specimens from garden centres, which have then grown to become large, relatively speaking. The Addison Road ones are an exception to that, which were imported at a fairly large size and planted there about 3-4 years ago.

thumbnail_image8_1.jpg.37a6de98e88410ae6322a11c389dd8d8.jpg

 

There's nothing unusual about big ones getting planted though. Most of the real big, ancient CIDP's in Beverley Hills and Hollywood were transplanted there as already big, mature 30 foot specimens around a century ago. There's quite a few pictures online of the big LA CIDP's being carted in and planted as already mature 30 foot specimens back then. Now they're enormous and about 100 foot tall. London should have started doing this back in the 90's. Bringing in a couple of big, already trunking CIDP's. The urban heat island is so big now that central London never drops below about -6C even during the worst cold events. If they planted big specimens like the Addison Road one 20-30 years ago, they would be huge now.

LA in 1913...

5d5c02b9ed6f8.thumb.jpg.ed96e537553a21ea57554ee748c3a74a.jpg

 

I would say the trunk on the Addison Road one is a similar size to the big Fulham CIDP, which was planted as a tiny palm in 1987 I believe. That one is well overdue a trim and its trunk would look much bigger if it was trimmed as aggressively as the Addison Road ones. So they're probably about the same size. I know there is another big CIDP in south London in a back yard, which I had a photo of on my old laptop. One that can rival the Addison Road and Fulham CIDP's. Maybe a little bit smaller, but still pretty darn big now. Give me time and I will locate that one too.

One palm I haven't mentioned is Peter Jenkins Phoenix Theophrasti in Ashford, Middlesex. Quite far inland out near Heathrow airport. A fantastic specimen. Grown from seed I believe. 

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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  • 5 months later...

Thank you so much for cataloging all these beautiful canary island date palms growing in England.  I'm obsessed with how far North they can grow.  

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14 hours ago, TAStein1965@gmail.com said:

Thank you so much for cataloging all these beautiful canary island date palms growing in England.  I'm obsessed with how far North they can grow.  

The thing with the London and UK CIDP's, or palms in general, is that we have gone from not having many, or just fairly small ones, to there suddenly being lots of biggish ones now. Like the palm scene over here has moved at a dramatic pace over the past 5 years or so. Makes you wonder what it will look like in just another 5 years time...?

There are quite a few others I haven't been uploading since street view has not updated in almost a decade for them. So I am sitting on quite a few other CIDP's around London. Take this one for instance, which looked like this during the last street view update in May 2012...

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It now looks like this, although you wouldn't know looking at the 9 year old street view...

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Still waiting for street view to update for this one as it is 3+ years old now...

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A couple more from London...

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Still waiting for the Egerton Terrace one to update in central London. This may be the second best CIDP in London after the River Gardens one in Fulham...

1745845447_Screenshot2021-10-24at15_35_07.thumb.png.6b040032630223bb10a800ed82031921.png

If you check street view on these, they were all planted tiny 10-15 years ago, as is the case with 99% of London and UK palm plantings.

I'm trying to locate this London one below. The image is at least 4-5 years old now, so it would be much bigger now...

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I have only really uploaded specimens in front yards. God knows how many other CIDP's are lurking in London back yards. I could imagine twice as many as front yards.

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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Essex Riviera, 20-30 miles east of London...

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Kent Riviera in the southeast

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Eastbourne (moving east to west)

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Hastings

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Brighon-Hove

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Portsmouth/Southsea

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Isle of Wight

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Weymouth...

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Torquay / Paignton

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Penzance

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Edited by UK_Palms
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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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OMG @UK__Palms you've been a hyperactive beaver lately!

One more great reason to go to London!

Any CIPDs up in Lancashire? Probably too cold up there . . . .

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These are really quite amazing and wonderful to see, I don't remember having seen much in the way of palms when I've been in London, so it's great to see this "catalogue" of P. canariensis and all these other species. Aren't there any Jubaea planted? I would think they would do quite well in London-town. There are magnificent old specimens at the Villa Melzi in Bellaggio. And it is plenty chilly there (though extreme lows are usually held at bay by Lago di Como).

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Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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How do you find all of these? Do you spend a lot of time on Google Maps, or do you come across them in person and then catalog them?

I grew up in the East End and recall seeing a lot of yuccas and other palm-type trees in immigrant communities, particularly Jamaica/West Indies.

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8 hours ago, DoomsDave said:

OMG @UK__Palms you've been a hyperactive beaver lately!

One more great reason to go to London!

Any CIPDs up in Lancashire? Probably too cold up there . . . .

Yes sir, there are several Lancashire specimens that I know of, believe it or not. I will post the locations and what information I have on here. I know of 4 CIDP's in Blackpool, Lancashire, which probably means there are a few others hiding there too and in other nearby areas. Unfortunately the street views have not updated in over a decade for two of them and 6 years for the other, so they look tiny back then. However the overhead aerial image clearly shows what appears to be fairly decent sized CIDP's. I'm assuming they are recent 2020 or 2021 overhead aerial images. If anyone lives nearby or is visiting the area, by all means please get a photo update of these Blackpool, Lancashire specimens! 

First up...

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And a 2019 image, showing quite rapid trunk expansion for such a northern latitude...

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Here is one of the other ones that has a 10 year old street view image, so I'm not even going to bother posting it. The overhead aerial clearly shows it looking way bigger now...

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Here it is in 2015 I think...

 

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Here is the last Blackpool one. Likewise the street view is 10+ years old now so it looks tiny back then. A fairly decent sized CIDP is obviously present on the overhead aerial though which is as big as the car next to it. These aerials could even be a few years old. There is also evidence to show that these CIDP's survived the brutal 2010 winter when they were tiny. 

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Here is a crappy property image of it back in 2014 I believe...

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I know of a few others too, but they are either in areas with 10+ year old street view or they are just still too small. Clearly CIDP is trying to get a foothold in Lancashire. There is definitive evidence that at least 2 of these survived the brutal 2010 winter which saw the coldest ever month on record (Dec 2010) and that was back when they were tiny too, so obviously less hardy back then, yet they survived. So that bodes pretty well for CIDP up there at 53N in northeast England, by the coast at least. I know of further specimens in Manchester too and there is obviously the North Yorkshire specimen in Scarborough up at 54N, which is the furthest north established specimen in the world. There is supposedly one in Northumberland at 55N too, but I have only seen one picture of it, which is a number of years old now. Maybe it is only a matter of time before we find an established Scottish CIDP?

Here is the Scarborough, North Yorkshire one at 54N, which has been flowering for a number of years...

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Any particular reason why you mentioned Lancashire, just out of curiosity? Like have you got family/ancestors from that area, or just because its potentially the northern limits for CIDP?

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Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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7 hours ago, mnorell said:

These are really quite amazing and wonderful to see, I don't remember having seen much in the way of palms when I've been in London, so it's great to see this "catalogue" of P. canariensis and all these other species. Aren't there any Jubaea planted? I would think they would do quite well in London-town. There are magnificent old specimens at the Villa Melzi in Bellaggio. And it is plenty chilly there (though extreme lows are usually held at bay by Lago di Como).

20-30 years ago, you wouldn't have seen any palms in London, except for the odd Trachycarpus Fortunei here and there. Even Trachy's weren't common back then. Stuff like CIDP's, Washies, Jubaea, Butia certainly wasn't being planted until the late 90's or early 2000's, except for a very few specimens such as the Fulham CIDP that was planted in 1987. Perhaps some early specimens died, but people in London simply were not planting palms back in the 80's, or even during most of the 90's. So the palm scene has come a long way, very quickly over here, especially in the past 5 years or so. People now have access to more palms and seeds, as well as the knowledge that certain stuff will grow fine. For a long time CIDP's were considered 'tropical' and not worth planting.

Anyway, here are the London Jubaea's you requested...

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Here is the one I photographed in Chelsea Physic Garden, central London this summer...

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These ones are in Richmond, southeast London...

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This one is in Birmingham, central England...

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By far the biggest Jubaea's on the UK mainland are located on Hesketh Road in Torquay. There are two huge 80 foot specimens that were planted in a back yard sometime in the 1920's. 

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Jubaea is still pretty rare over here, even compared to the likes of Butia, which are much easier to come by. Jubaea clearly do well in the south of England, but are just hard to come by and very slow growing obviously. I'm sure more will be planted in the coming years, and I suspect there are currently more lurking out there which haven't been found yet. I do know of quite a lot of smaller specimens around London and on the south coast, but they are going to be another 10-20 years away from reaching an impressive size.

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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Wow Londons palms are so impressive and most of the palms seems really healthy. When was the last time London experienced an abnormal freeze that would kill all the palms? 

Edited by Palmfarmer
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1 hour ago, UK_Palms said:

20-30 years ago, you wouldn't have seen any palms in London, except for the odd Trachycarpus Fortunei here and there. Even Trachy's weren't common back then. Stuff like CIDP's, Washies, Jubaea, Butia certainly wasn't being planted until the late 90's or early 2000's, except for a very few specimens such as the Fulham CIDP that was planted in 1987. Perhaps some early specimens died, but people in London simply were not planting palms back in the 80's, or even during most of the 90's. So the palm scene has come a long way, very quickly over here, especially in the past 5 years or so. People now have access to more palms and seeds, as well as the knowledge that certain stuff will grow fine. For a long time CIDP's were considered 'tropical' and not worth planting.

Jubaea is still pretty rare over here, even compared to the likes of Butia, which are much easier to come by. Jubaea clearly do well in the south of England, but are just hard to come by and very slow growing obviously. I'm sure more will be planted in the coming years, and I suspect there are currently more lurking out there which haven't been found yet. I do know of quite a lot of smaller specimens around London and on the south coast, but they are going to be another 10-20 years away from reaching an impressive size.

Wow wee, that is absolutely amazing! They are beautiful. I can hardly believe that nobody (such as Kew...hello, John Dransfield?!) has championed and encouraged planting these wonderful palms. It looks like the historical low temp around London is in the 8-12F range. Obviously that would be a very rare thing and perhaps it is generally more like the 20s F in the London Urban Heat Island? You'd think someone would try a Juania or Ceroxylon somewhere... Thanks for posting all these wonderful pix!

  • Like 1

Michael Norell

Rancho Mirage, California | 33°44' N 116°25' W | 287 ft | z10a | avg Jan 43/70F | Jul 78/108F avg | Weather Station KCARANCH310

previously Big Pine Key, Florida | 24°40' N 81°21' W | 4.5 ft. | z12a | Calcareous substrate | avg annual min. approx 52F | avg Jan 65/75F | Jul 83/90 | extreme min approx 41F

previously Natchez, Mississippi | 31°33' N 91°24' W | 220 ft.| z9a | Downtown/river-adjacent | Loess substrate | avg annual min. 23F | Jan 43/61F | Jul 73/93F | extreme min 2.5F (1899); previously Los Angeles, California (multiple locations)

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Hi @DoomsDave as a Lancashire resident I can second everything @UK_Palms said about the CIDP here (there is some confusion about boundaries by the way, "Lancashire County Council" being smaller than the actual county itself which includes Liverpool and Manchester).

CIPD have become extremely common here and it's quite normal to walk past a few on any average street.  I think the main difference from London is that they only because available in our garden centres some years later.  Any decent garden centre now stocks loads them - in fact they are cheaper and easier to find than Trachycarpus.  The thing is, since widespread availability is quite recent and they don't stock big ones, most of those you see are quite small.  As Ben's photos illustrate though, they grow quite happily and quickly if planted out.  A lot of people think they are cute and stick them into a tiny pot in the front garden, where they do not flourish.

It is a little bit cooler than London here but not so much as to be an issue for CIDPs.  In the urban areas, overnight lows throughout the year are almost identical to those in London.  The main difference is we have a bit less summer heat, likely resulting in slower growth.  Blessed with the balmy coastal air off the Irish Sea.  Solid zone 9 for most areas except for East Lancs.  The record low in Manchester was 12F which occurred in 2010 (no temperatures under 20F since), which would have been a limiting factor to any CIDPs that were around back then (that's before they became common in garden centres though).  Need to be careful with weather/climate stats, since the Met Office doesn't have any stations in the urban areas except for Blackpool - I use a long-running suburban station near Manchester for reference, which helps interpret the differences in weather events between urban and rural areas, and helps me understand the limits in my area which is actually a bit more urban (my overnight temperatures are almost always warmer).

I do really need to take a little city tour to get some updated photos on the CIDPs and other palms flourishing in the area.

Manchester, Lancashire, England

53.4ºN, 2.2ºW, 65m AMSL

Köppen climate Cfb | USDA hardiness zone 9a

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  • 2 months later...

Here is a picture I took a few years ago when I went to the Uk this is a canary island date palm in the town of Sidmouth Devon England!

20190820_132435.jpg

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An Autistic 18 year old who has an obsession with Palms!

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I mean this isn’t even fair

Youve got CIDP and Jubeas and Armatas growing  in London 

Meanwhile in Houston freaking Texas all the chamaerops Armatas and pindos are dead and my CIDPs look like they barely survived the apocalypse 

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  • 1 year later...
7 minutes ago, Jimmy321 said:

It's a shame this forum isn't active anymore. I was quite enjoying the posts.

There's another thread made for London CIDP.

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