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Washingtonia growth rate in southern England at 50-52N

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UK_Palms

As an avid Washie fan who has been following their growth over here in the UK for several years, I thought I better compel a photo journal showing the biggest specimens over here and their growth rates. It appears that Filifera does perform better than Robusta here, in regards to cold hardiness. There are many more mature Filifera's around than Robusta's for instance, although Washingtonia in general does good in London and the south coast of England. As you move inland however, you will only see Filifera or hybrids.

I'll start with what I believe is a pure Robusta at Peter Cavendish's home in Earl's Court, London. The first photo was taken in 2014...

HF30219.jpg.34b1f5d4ea87a1e7c69a6a1e93034220.jpg

And again in 2020...

522392917_TamasTothPhotography013.thumb.jpg.d9ca0e41da6a84f714ae2a057d1301db.jpg

1472112003_TamasTothPhotography008.jpg.d794a9619462003ad1a4549b72975f4a.jpg

 

Next we move onto another very impressive specimen. A Filibusta hybrid in Wimbledon, London. This was grown from seed in I think 1997 and it looked like this 10 years ago...

washy1_1.jpg.a20208f97a26dd08a9596986f94f096a.jpg

And this is what it looks like now...

thumbnail_image1-15.thumb.jpg.73716cc42c6f406a1efd0d0f52b1da12.jpg

thumbnail_image0-23.thumb.jpg.26137849fd69a7feb5601586c6c51396.jpg

 

Next up is what is probably one of the biggest Washie's in the UK, certainly on the mainland at least. It is located at Minster-On-Sea, which is about 20 miles east of London. This one is almost certainly a Filibusta hybrid too. I think the trunk is a little bit too fat to be a Robusta...?

Here it is in 2009...

1801926317_Screenshot2021-03-06at19_48_46.thumb.png.4994f3e2885276a97db3298cb4628f70.png

And here it is now...

1BCFCA68B5D94B04BB2DD9F9628EF7D8.jpg.ea073701aeae6f8a9ad6838264e843a9.jpg

4AFB7EFC32D94FAE8642872C197034C6.jpg.5a480964821e70bceb546344233fbaca.jpg

 

Many of you have also probably seen Dave Brown's Filibusta hybrid in Kent, which looked like this back in 2007. He did a few videos on it surviving snow and cold winters...

102ea1dcded295303caa90f66620d35f1.jpg.1be630964cf49b6ae1d62f266ebe3fea.jpg

Well this is what Dave's washie looks like nowadays... 

117340653_3.jpg.d66c6ae77fe6873d8028fc3423522181.jpg

1189698_429950189_o.jpg.36fcf9ea2486eacfd8b149897b0028d3.jpg

 

Robusta's or Filibusta hybrids in Richmond, London near to Kew Gardens. First picture from 2012...

1228341425_Screenshot2021-03-07at02_10_16.thumb.png.e6d2a06340d3d60694805caf405a2c4d.png

And then 7 years later in 2019...

102029740_Screenshot2021-03-07at02_11_24.thumb.png.7e2bd11b9b93ed2955b5fcdd7faaa881.png

 

Another Filibusta hybrid in Little Venice, London... shown back in 2013...

667766926_Screenshot2021-03-06at21_34_06.thumb.png.3005d057032f09dc8de30c105ac3a871.png

And then 7 years later, now...

125374469_1764727327018842_3133234184525333508_n_1.jpg.14237e51ef43f6855d21242b48bacfb1.jpg

 

I think the one in Chelsea Physic Garden, London is also a Filibusta hybrid. Here it is roughly a decade ago...

133753729.jpg.7ad4dd23b4bf92d057eee42e901a5a60.jpg

And again in 2019...

Washingtonia_1.jpg.542fc5295c721d1cd75e14d6132c9119.jpg

Washiechelsea.jpg.fdd9b1fa1aa0e06582bf84a50ea580ab.jpg

 

Probable Filibusta hybrid in a front garden in Southsea, Portsmouth. Here it is back in 2011 looking tiny...

134781880_Screenshot2021-03-07at01_30_13.thumb.png.3a4fa7ecfabf26855957074b821b0f8a.png

And more recently in 2020...

1335088959_Screenshot2021-03-07at01_35_36.thumb.jpeg.69f938fdc35c747a871d1a5ede34d17b.jpeg

1298635968_Screenshot2021-03-07at01_28_56.thumb.png.53092259588625cf4f3228376aea012f.png

 

Now onto the Filifera's, starting with Barry's one in Edmonton, North London, which is possibly the biggest Filifera in the UK now at 30 foot tall. Here is his Filifera about 15 years ago...

1000(1).jpg.dc3b89a256b7f8de1a228618f7b85ecd.jpg

And this is how Barry's Filifera looks today!

Washie-7.jpg.80556f04b9048f13ee2a2f0ec70e9a38.jpg

489930C568B048078E718FD6804FC70B.jpg.feaf4d13d34c1f07dbf9f4321aa095f0.jpg

C05A624C27A54CD286031364FF3D5820.jpg.8036f0ea955393e1fa1bbc5a0a721266.jpg

 

The other contender for the UK's biggest Filifera is the monster at Canvey Island, just east of London. It looked like this back in 2009...

290795131_Screenshot2021-03-06at21_11_24.thumb.png.d581a700238aa0e9abaecec1bc1f90b0.png

But now it looks like this...

Washy33.jpg.e2f60157b3f58bff7b9baf994b0a5927.jpg

49949400_1189708501187397_948556949094400000_n.jpg.1aa665245f3312af72f739a823c8814a.jpg

Filifera1.jpg.1fea55b47a51582d58c8a07bbd359de0.jpg

Filifera2.jpg.ac2d2d403d3cd31bb95de7c123b20071.jpg

 

Here's what looks like another big Filifera growing in Chingford, Essex. First shown in 2011...

386764127_Screenshot2021-03-06at20_21_31.thumb.png.f9eb3f43cbfe67c8600e695cb52e06d3.png

And then fast forward 9 years to now...

1062329656_Screenshot2021-03-06at20_17_25.thumb.png.3a4c3b637c4c33c1b5050c454df0607f.png

 

There's another decent sized Filifera in Dulwich, London as well, which looked like this in 2008...

433672434_Screenshot2021-03-06at20_29_22.thumb.png.8a7d842a0211c1a8fb4d7b1a7ab3f1f8.png

And looks like this now...

1949435312_Screenshot2021-03-06at20_32_31.thumb.png.17a0ec3e6504223f300b8ada66d13cb3.png

 

There appears to be a Filifera growing in a front garden in Thorpe Bay, Essex. You can just about see it's fronds back in 2009...

511840083_Screenshot2021-03-06at22_24_05.thumb.png.37aae3de85305647f8f9ba431bf7ab48.png

But it looked like this a decade later in 2019...

washiethorpebay_1.jpg.fa3a7d18f51dfeea7a6ab6149b039a23.jpg

 

Another big Filifera on the Isle of Dogs in East London...

2094663756_14478bf06f6f3cf7b4af8a39ddca69625df957e1_thmb_lg2.jpg.a3c88abd9fad0ee02d8d77ba1bfb3ed7.jpg

94608140_6043_56s2aj6gdvdeubhmhsd2sekba2.jpg.365d849130f720d53d7a29dd2b8504b9.jpg

 

A Filibusta hybrid, or possibly a Filifera, in a Wimbledon back garden...

image-0-1024x1024.jpg.482f60eadfb9f44926259dc00ec784ba.jpg

image-15-x380.jpg.ba171c3ba62ab40b8923b25d6f5b260f.jpg

72698_WIM190046_IMG_20_0000_max_656x437.jpg.056492ca7b4cfb8bf91f9cff55ad4630.jpg

 

Another Filifera at Battersea Park, London...

1865585476_17_Family-and-Children-Photography-in-Battersea-Park-London-582.jpg.bd38b3e8ed9096a49a18fc5f57dc07e3.jpg

Battersea.thumb.jpg.78e4ceaaa7053832887ec79613eaaa19.jpg

 

Filibusta hybrids at Sandsfoot Gardens, Weymouth

840C46536E034FB385F2CEE7F24F9312.jpg.34ef5ef067365c85ea8451b66613d035.jpg

144AC8411F3041B4B62E2DECDA20CD18.jpg.a54c284606dec7dd3ed8aef92a33447c.jpg

 

Growth on a London street Washie from 2014...

2091435574_Screenshot2021-03-07at02_48_36.thumb.png.d92beb20ae39d0c07cff50c6278d1cd7.png

And then fast forward to 2020...

166644541_Screenshot2021-03-07at02_51_12.thumb.png.bed754952ff0adfd0407a6834f2df06c.png

 

There were a number of 5-6 foot washies planted at Ventnor Botanic gardens, which looked like this after the bad winter of 2010...

imag0024.jpg.1fc9d66868af93b628329d003705bf85.jpg

And this is them in recent years, a decade or so later...

8CA5B914432840BCA16F2B312CD325FF.jpg.51497dacaeea869abbab29d5558e2517.jpg

DCF31B0A6EE54C2F985AA8BF5D24B588.jpg.b1895022db0453f934edb9172225c525.jpg

48841047212_8b59ddb029_b.jpg.6cebed537e9aa18e9cb2f3c57d2e0a78.jpg

40A38D3E3F154B0EAB3D31C605EDFDC2.jpg.9745f714504c5c58ba5eb9043cd96f51.jpg

CCCF46641F9C469C8EF288CA9656853E.jpg.b5bd5e9da4c7be61350b50618b367fd2.jpg


The Abbey Gardens at Tresco has by far the tallest Washie in the UK with a 45 foot tall Robusta... however I don't have any 'before' pictures unfortunately...

44740277_10155538584205583_5055251381556871168_n.jpg.9569463eb1a2d7899ce3c8eda6038c75.jpg

 

Tresco's Filibusta hybrid however has gone from this in 2011...

DSC_0216.thumb.jpg.3187cc399b1b429fb5dc62ba05ac96e1.jpg

To this now...

119926830_10224271045310793_5669678314869638769_n.jpg.ef7f2542560194c2979ce89f1c37efca.jpg

 

Lastly, some big Robusta's at a private facility in the Docklands in east London. This place is supposedly used for hosting business magnates. Quite a weird location to place them. Here they are shortly after planting in late 2017...

DY5KjFBW4AABknK.thumb.jpg.661ab05f65b7a501fb3921eecdd8d4d5.jpg

And then about 6 months later...

Red-White-Blue-DIY-Wedding-at-Trinity-Buoy-Wharf-30.thumb.jpg.18acb1607dd270edbbb16e3614341aa4.jpg

9 months later they're looking nice and healthy. The tallest Robusta's must be about 30-35 feet tall.

1905879106_ScreenShot2020-09-28at05_21_00.thumb.jpg.ca0e5bbdde2e2e9184cd298e4fd1799e.jpg.12e87abef9cc5cf19ff2b2af4a935414.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by UK_Palms
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PalmatierMeg

Great photos. That's incredible growth for some of those palms. Do you see palms, esp. Washies showing up in many more yards and landscapes over the years?

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petiole10

Washingtonia are seen more and more often in southern england these days - more especially coastal and urban parts as those pictures show.  But, as might be expected, they become less common the further north of the UK you get. Much the same as CIDP - which live at, or over, the edge of their tolerance levels away from the warmer coastal and urban parts of the south. Increasingly less sunshine hours, overall,  also becomes an issue in wettest and cloudiest northern parts of the UK

Even in the warmer south and east of the country, they are certainly not as commonly found in average garden centres as the likes of Trachycarpus (most especially) and also to a degree other cold hardy palms like Chaemerops - and many British growers in truth (if they had heard of them) would never have considered planting them, assuming they are not suitable for the UK climate but simply to be admired having taken a plane on some away trip. 

But in the south of the country at least, and more especially in south eastern parts where the most continental type climate exists and warmest summers, they do well and show that they can tolerate and survive the cold wetness and occasional freezes that come their way in the winter. Especially the more mature specimens.

In southern europe, with more optimum conditions, they grow almost like weeds and in contrast to the UK, where only the most dedicated enthusiast takes the trouble to try to raise them from seed, there is little need to go to much effort and/or buy them for many enthusiasts and gardeners alike because there are so many seedlings to be found and they are so commonly found everywhere.

Therefore they are not cherished with quite the same enthusiasm in these warmer parts of Europe, though they are proving more resilient to palm weevil than CIDP and in that respect Filifera at least may be becoming one of the main default replacement to the vastly decimated numbers of CIDP that this pest chooses as its most liked diet. For the time being at least, the UK is free of palm weevil - and its mainly the weather which it has to tolerate.

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UK_Palms
6 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Great photos. That's incredible growth for some of those palms. Do you see palms, esp. Washies showing up in many more yards and landscapes over the years?

Hi Meg, yes there are definitely a lot more palms in general nowadays than say, 10-20 years ago. A LOT more. I mean 20 years ago you wouldn't have seen a Washie in the UK, apart from maybe on Tresco in the Isles of Scilly, but now they are popping up everywhere. And thriving. Filifera especially. I don't know whether that is just due to their availability these days, or due to climate change. I think both factors probably play a part in their spread.

I know of many other big Filifera's around London. Most of which are in back yards and not easy to photograph. It's actually surprising how well Filifera does around London and the southeast, although it struggles more in the wetter, cooler southwest. Filifera's don't seem to take any damage really and grow about as fast as the Robusta's do here. So the London skyline is definitely going to look different in the coming decades. And not just because of the Washie's...

There's a lot of CIDP's and Jubaea around and they are getting pretty big now...

606667778_ScreenShot2020-08-02at19_39_05.thumb.jpg.fbb6ce25ee682517f3fc85cc33ac463f.jpg.c19dd852b8eba70fcb45739f16b97553.jpg

2051903196_ScreenShot2020-08-02at18_23_18.thumb.jpg.122047e2dd37399db2bc00dcb391528e.jpg.987ce6ed1ed94a66fa14303e3df69919.jpg

EVf4XdoWAAAxEK4.thumb.jpg.c9c15dea431450302698fcc191bc4799.jpg.63410d545123cd01e183aab24b2692be.jpg

DiePMerXkAEuFvy.thumb.jpg.66ab46aac925a5dec854482d9cf9443b.jpg.d400eb45fc97360fb0c3965663832d45.jpg

thumbnail_image0_4.jpg.6aa0ac70348976fc21b10040e03b888d.jpg.a770b5f3a72366c280ca61fe3d903fa9.jpg

 

Back to the Washies...

Robusta's in Totton, Southampton...

image0.jpg.cecd4a93b79b3671e97207127431e860.jpg

 

I think these are probably Robusta's located at St. James Square, London. Never ever protected.

123819425_1756041191220789_4982685274082946997_n.jpg.dad93cc6bf784e117f01a915109f0437.jpg

123773258_1756041144554127_1389497350037137550_n.jpg.9cdd4be04da59b8fe4f50db5b70303cc.jpg

 

A weirdly crooked Filibusta hybrid in Gosport, Portsmouth...

20200105_1244301.jpg.650d3af36919124669c53c0461d51449.jpg

20200105_1244121.jpg.4a9625fc9707155299e5db21bb24d974.jpg

 

Filifera in Camberwell, London (old picture and much bigger now)...

Wasie34_1.jpg.65eaa2844ee4e29f952fe061612a4716.jpg

 

Another Filifera, or hybrid, in Rochester, Kent...

53506339_1225130607645186_8349982525883416576_n.jpg.606808222146a8f458af0009a5121067.jpg

 

Another Filifera, or hybrid Filibusta, growing in a heavily shaded spot in Ilford, London back in 2011...

1223853438_Screenshot2021-03-07at17_20_47.thumb.png.faee2facd139b1d2107ce72ab23635f1.png

And here it is now...

476012873_Screenshot2021-03-07at17_20_06.thumb.png.60b041ad90881af767b361416747d504.png

 

Yet another decent sized Filifera putting on height and girth in Hoo, Kent...

Hoo-Kent-Washie.jpg.7a498239ab3f1de91cedeab34f16f816.jpg

 

RHS Wisley's Robusta just down the road from me, near Guildford...

068F238D3E7144D7ABF7971E48082F01.jpg.74919356a9ca8fa01b14c4fd9041b814.jpg

 

I know the Lost Gardens of Heligan in Cornwall have a pretty big Robusta planted out as well...

CzgDZm-UkAAg7hM.jpg.77fed1d12d748fd6f311321249c6acd2.jpg

 

Quite a few Washies planted in Bournmouth...

Screen-Shot-20201206-at-20_18_06.jpg.8d05c29e38b8ff4916a999d3d0ca6bab.jpg

 

More mass plantings in Southgate, London to keep an eye on...

Washie-44.jpg.3cabed0016490ea78ac39924abb7de8a.jpg

Washie45.jpg.10e45327708178bf6a8a4c71ffe0650c.jpg

A lot of these photos are a few years old now, so I need to get more recent, updated ones...

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petiole10
4 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

. I mean 20 years ago you wouldn't have seen a Washie in the UK, apart from maybe on Tresco in the Isles of Scilly, but now they are popping up everywhere. And thriving. Filifera especially. I don't know whether that is just due to their availability these days, or due to climate change. I think both factors probably play a part in their spread.

That is just it  though- they are not "popping up everywhere".

It can appear compelling when rows of pictures are posted of these palms, as lovely specimens as they are, but in truth they represent a microcosm of the UK as a whole and as they equally show in terms of location, the spread is within the same parts of the country that represent those micro-climates and also where greater awareness of the possibilities for planting them exists

There are more for sure than used to be the case, but the concentration of them is, as stated earlier, in focussed parts of southern england and most especially the mildest coastal and urban zones and microclimates, Enthusiasm for a plant/palm subject is fine and healthy - but over stating and exaggeration is neither truthful or accurate

Edited by petiole10
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UK_Palms
6 minutes ago, petiole10 said:

That is just it  though- they are not "popping up everywhere".

It can appear compelling when rows of pictures are posted of these palms, as lovely specimens as they are, but in truth they represent a microcosm of the UK as a whole and as they equally show in terms of location, the spread is within the same parts of the country that represent those micro-climates and also where greater awareness of the possibilities for planting them exists

There are more for sure than used to be the case, but the concentration of them is, as stated earlier, in focussed parts of southern england and most especially the mildest coastal and urban zones and microclimates, Enthusiasm for a plant/palm subject is fine and healthy - but over stating and exaggeration is neither truthful or accurate

'Popping up everywhere' is a figure of speech. I don't mean that they are literally on every street corner. However there is clearly a lot more Washingtonia's around than people realise, especially Filifera's. London is becoming a real hotspot. I'll just let the pictures do the talking. This is merely a photo journal/documentation of Washingtonia growth rates here at 50-52N.

I am not exaggerating anything by posting the locations of these palms and how much they have grown over the years. The fact that there are so many more Filifera's around the southeast tells us that they do better than Robusta's here (London, Kent, Essex, Surrey, Sussex etc). Whereas the opposite appears to be true for the southwest where there are quite a few Robusta's and hybrids, but virtually no Filifera's. That's an interesting thing to note. Again, I am merely documenting specimens in southern England. Nothing more. Nothing less. 

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PalmsUSA
7 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Hi Meg, yes there are definitely a lot more palms in general nowadays than say, 10-20 years ago. A LOT more. I mean 20 years ago you wouldn't have seen a Washie in the UK, apart from maybe on Tresco in the Isles of Scilly, but now they are popping up everywhere. And thriving. Filifera especially. I don't know whether that is just due to their availability these days, or due to climate change. I think both factors probably play a part in their spread.

I know of many other big Filifera's around London. Most of which are in back yards and not easy to photograph. It's actually surprising how well Filifera does around London and the southeast, although it struggles more in the wetter, cooler southwest. Filifera's don't seem to take any damage really and grow about as fast as the Robusta's do here. So the London skyline is definitely going to look different in the coming decades. And not just because of the Washie's...

There's a lot of CIDP's and Jubaea around and they are getting pretty big now...

606667778_ScreenShot2020-08-02at19_39_05.thumb.jpg.fbb6ce25ee682517f3fc85cc33ac463f.jpg.c19dd852b8eba70fcb45739f16b97553.jpg

2051903196_ScreenShot2020-08-02at18_23_18.thumb.jpg.122047e2dd37399db2bc00dcb391528e.jpg.987ce6ed1ed94a66fa14303e3df69919.jpg

EVf4XdoWAAAxEK4.thumb.jpg.c9c15dea431450302698fcc191bc4799.jpg.63410d545123cd01e183aab24b2692be.jpg

DiePMerXkAEuFvy.thumb.jpg.66ab46aac925a5dec854482d9cf9443b.jpg.d400eb45fc97360fb0c3965663832d45.jpg

thumbnail_image0_4.jpg.6aa0ac70348976fc21b10040e03b888d.jpg.a770b5f3a72366c280ca61fe3d903fa9.jpg

 

Back to the Washies...

Robusta's in Totton, Southampton...

image0.jpg.cecd4a93b79b3671e97207127431e860.jpg

 

I think these are probably Robusta's located at St. James Square, London. Never ever protected.

123819425_1756041191220789_4982685274082946997_n.jpg.dad93cc6bf784e117f01a915109f0437.jpg

123773258_1756041144554127_1389497350037137550_n.jpg.9cdd4be04da59b8fe4f50db5b70303cc.jpg

 

A weirdly crooked Filibusta hybrid in Gosport, Portsmouth...

20200105_1244301.jpg.650d3af36919124669c53c0461d51449.jpg

20200105_1244121.jpg.4a9625fc9707155299e5db21bb24d974.jpg

 

Filifera in Camberwell, London (old picture and much bigger now)...

Wasie34_1.jpg.65eaa2844ee4e29f952fe061612a4716.jpg

 

Another Filifera, or hybrid, in Rochester, Kent...

53506339_1225130607645186_8349982525883416576_n.jpg.606808222146a8f458af0009a5121067.jpg

 

Another Filifera, or hybrid Filibusta, growing in a heavily shaded spot in Ilford, London back in 2011...

1223853438_Screenshot2021-03-07at17_20_47.thumb.png.faee2facd139b1d2107ce72ab23635f1.png

And here it is now...

476012873_Screenshot2021-03-07at17_20_06.thumb.png.60b041ad90881af767b361416747d504.png

 

Yet another decent sized Filifera putting on height and girth in Hoo, Kent...

Hoo-Kent-Washie.jpg.7a498239ab3f1de91cedeab34f16f816.jpg

 

RHS Wisley's Robusta just down the road from me, near Guildford...

068F238D3E7144D7ABF7971E48082F01.jpg.74919356a9ca8fa01b14c4fd9041b814.jpg

 

I know the Lost Gardens of Heligan in Cornwall have a pretty big Robusta planted out as well...

CzgDZm-UkAAg7hM.jpg.77fed1d12d748fd6f311321249c6acd2.jpg

 

Quite a few Washies planted in Bournmouth...

Screen-Shot-20201206-at-20_18_06.jpg.8d05c29e38b8ff4916a999d3d0ca6bab.jpg

 

More mass plantings in Southgate, London to keep an eye on...

Washie-44.jpg.3cabed0016490ea78ac39924abb7de8a.jpg

Washie45.jpg.10e45327708178bf6a8a4c71ffe0650c.jpg

A lot of these photos are a few years old now, so I need to get more recent, updated ones...

Amazing, it just blows my mind what can be grown there, so far north! Thank you so much for sharing these pictures, those palms are truly incredible and if I go back to visit England some day I have to check them out! Thanks again, cheers!

PalmsUSA

 

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UK_Palms

Filibusta hybrid in Croydon, south London

Washie-84.jpg.3d38a3d718193eedd29f14af852db7cc.jpg

 

Filibusta hybrids in Catford, London

Washie-91.jpg.8f9de91ffffe946e00697e0dfdeb737e.jpg

 

Probably another Filibusta hybrid in Wapping, East London that has clearly outgrown the garden...

40313221_1098538176971097_827629481995796480_o.thumb.jpg.60de07b60be6e36680d8a2f4f0ed2ea5.jpg

Washie-16.jpg.6c90db26d43ed74b560e2190ca999aa0.jpg

This CIDP is on the same street...

119073074_1702299549928287_4489140158872341826_o.jpg.17c8b0aaedd46fb53e6e711bfe9ed319.jpg

 

 

This particular photo is from 2014, so that Filibusta hybrid should be a lot bigger now. It is located in Primrose Hill, London. Hopefully we can get an updated photo soon...

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Wanstead, North London...

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There's a big Filifera in a back garden in Munster Road, Fulham but it is very difficult to get a good picture. This thing is really big now. This picture is a few years old and the trunk is at least 3-4 meters in height now. The only way to get a photo may be knocking on the door.

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This one in Brixton, London is growing very rapidly but is obstructed by an 6-7 foot wall...

1682709782_Screenshot2021-03-08at00_42_55.thumb.png.ca6a9ffbf97affd1500fec447b8bf152.png

 

Washies growing in forest with virtually no sunlight on the Isle of Wight...

1696860991_Screenshot2021-03-08at01_13_27.thumb.png.2495031446369347270ed744bbd4b70f.png

1124811483_Screenshot2021-03-08at01_14_40.thumb.png.a0acd141b29ffa958f40a11daf8280e1.png

 

Filibusta hybrids, or Filifera's in Leigh on Sea, Essex

28701386_961646547326928_7927088919317680017_o.jpg.103bfa7e77cb4445c61f63a30257e034.jpg

 

Robusta in North London...

120606027_2026763707454262_2197617632196056533_o.thumb.jpg.7700ae5981b372d1b7ca00f51a19af15.jpg

 

Filibusta hybrid in Torquay...

Washy19.jpg.78b4d4b1b3a401167df583a56fb004b0.jpg

 

More washies in west London...

thumbnail_image07.jpg.8c78409958398e6283458feddd08ff24.jpg

thumbnail_image08.jpg.360d0ab2f06008737952c2bcf86e696b.jpg

 

Filibusta hybrid in Staines / Heathrow 

6CA729D2B29E491F930F54C6FA585CBA.jpg.35a61340603e64734997137621ce8baf.jpg

 

The Earl's Court, London Washie in Rupert Cavendish's back garden is definitely a pure Robusta...

1001798160_TamasTothPhotography013.thumb.jpg.9d3bdf542d0ff62419ce38b912fd9461.jpg

22329801_TamasTothPhotography008.jpg.c5eb75246e86c019345095a3e2f84670.jpg

Here are some pics of it after a trim...

Penywern-SW5-new-london-apartment-025-1200x781.thumb.jpg.286bcf0a401975938a2e05ae9b4537d7.jpg

Penywern-SW5-new-london-apartment-014-1200x1800.thumb.jpg.c9362ac2c32383f234d7f93016ce0337.jpg

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PalmsNC

Looks nice, UK has been especially lucky since the 1980s at avoiding big cold. However, as the outbreaks all across the globe showed no one is immune. No surprise a lot of these you mentioned came after the 80s.

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UK_Palms
16 minutes ago, PalmsNC said:

Looks nice, UK has been especially lucky since the 1980s at avoiding big cold. However, as the outbreaks all across the globe showed no one is immune. No surprise a lot of these you mentioned came after the 80s.

Nobody was growing Washies here in the 80's. You had the odd Trachycarpus being planted here and there, but people weren't aware that other stuff like Chamaerops, CIDP and Washingtonia could grow here, or they didn't really have access to that kind of stuff. Residents certainly weren't growing those types in their gardens in the 80's. It wasn't until the 90's that experimental palm planting started happening properly and then people realised that these other types of palms could survive and even thrive here. It was between 2000-2005 when citizens really started planting stuff like Chamaerops, Phoenix and Washingtonia in their gardens and on streets.

A lot of these bigger specimens also survived the record cold in 2010 such as Barry's Filifera, the Canvey Filifera, the Wimbledon Filibusta and even Rupert Cavendish's Robusta. That winter was about as cold as it has ever got in the past 50 years and they came through okay. Pretty much all of the specimens in the photos also survived the 2018 'Beast from the East'. The Filifera's around London and the southeast didn't take damage. So I am confident that the established specimens will survive just about anything. At least in London and the coastal regions. There are certainly specimens in more marginal areas that may well die in the coming years.

I guess we'll have to see how many of these specimens are still around in say 10, or even 20 years time. I've made a pretty good photo record of all these specimens and stated their locations, so they can be monitored. I suspect these Washies will keep growing bigger, further increasing their chances of survival, and of course more and more of them will still keep getting planted. At least when the next big, major freeze hits it will probably separate the weak from the strong. I can't see the big 25-30 foot Filifera's getting touched now though. Time will tell I guess. 

 

6043_55zakpwq8631gimlug5z6an53-1.jpg.acc284061fe35cad01e9fafd34c8e9c5.jpg

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Palmsofengland

Anything that was planted pre-2010 (which most of these are) is pretty safe long-term as December of that year was thought to be the coldest the UK has seen since they started taking records in 1659.

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petiole10
5 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Nobody was growing Washies here in the 80's. You had the odd Trachycarpus being planted here and there, but people weren't aware that other stuff like Chamaerops, CIDP and Washingtonia could grow here, or they didn't really have access to that kind of stuff. Residents certainly weren't growing those types in their gardens in the 80's. It wasn't until the 90's that experimental palm planting started happening properly and then people realised that these other types of palms could survive and even thrive here. It was between 2000-2005 when citizens really started planting stuff like Chamaerops, Phoenix and Washingtonia in their gardens and on streets.

A lot of these bigger specimens also survived the record cold in 2010 such as Barry's Filifera, the Canvey Filifera, the Wimbledon Filibusta and even Rupert Cavendish's Robusta. That winter was about as cold as it has ever got in the past 50 years and they came through okay. Pretty much all of the specimens in the photos also survived the 2018 'Beast from the East'. The Filifera's around London and the southeast didn't take damage. So I am confident that the established specimens will survive just about anything. At least in London and the coastal regions. There are certainly specimens in more marginal areas that may well die in the coming years.

I guess we'll have to see how many of these specimens are still around in say 10, or even 20 years time. I've made a pretty good photo record of all these specimens and stated their locations, so they can be monitored. I suspect these Washies will keep growing bigger, further increasing their chances of survival, and of course more and more of them will still keep getting planted. At least when the next big, major freeze hits it will probably separate the weak from the strong. I can't see the big 25-30 foot Filifera's getting touched now though. Time will tell I guess. 

 

6043_55zakpwq8631gimlug5z6an53-1.jpg.acc284061fe35cad01e9fafd34c8e9c5.jpg

Yes I certainly agree with most of this. I guess it doesn't change the fact though that these palms are succeeding in the same areas as I was suggesting previously, and taking the UK as a whole the extent of Washingtonia and other 'borderline hardy' palms remains, in relative terms, limited. There is certainly an element of unawareness of the possibilities that some might adapt beyond the current boundaries, but it also remains the case that the areas of southern/coastal/urban London that they are indeed succeeding represent something of a geographical threshold - with only dedicated enthusiasts making adjustments and proactively working day to day towards their longer term welfare in wetter, colder and cloudier parts of the UK.

Many of these southern palms, as the numerous pictures show, can manage to look after themselves to quite a large degree without the same human intervention required at the more northern, and less continental influenced latitudes. I think that these continental influences make quite the difference with the extra heat and sunshine in summer going quite some way to sustaining these palms from the growing season to see them through the winter - and better equipped to deal with the more adverse elements of the British weather.

 

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jwitt

Awesome pictorial report! Thank you!

Amazing size on many of those palms.

Are a lot of the washies seed grown?  

Also kind of puts a dent into the filifera not performing in a cool wet climate.

 

Any tricks used in those parts?

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UK_Palms
5 hours ago, jwitt said:

Awesome pictorial report! Thank you!

Amazing size on many of those palms.

Are a lot of the washies seed grown?  

Also kind of puts a dent into the filifera not performing in a cool wet climate.

 

Any tricks used in those parts?

 

I think most of the Washies I have posted were planted at a very small size and were likely purchased straight from garden centres over here, such as Homebase, B&Q or even Tesco. However, I do know that the big Wimbledon Filibusta was grown from seed by the owner, who collected the seed in Tunisia in 1992. There are a couple of articles and news stories online about that particular palm, which is developing a bit of a cult following over here. I can't say for sure whether any of these other Washies were grown from seed, but it's highly likely that some were started from seed by other palm enthusiasts, prior to them being planted.

I think the reason why Filifera have done so well in the southeast of England is because the water table is so low, especially compared to the eastern and southern United States. And even compared to the southwest of England. Those big Filifera are located in London, Essex and Kent (driest parts of the country) where they probably don't see more than about 20 inches of rain per year. Some years it will be as low as 15 inches. So these parts of England are really not as wet as it is often accentuated. The water table is low year-round and they are pretty dry from about March - September with regular summer droughts. We do get quite a bit of wet-cold in winter, but Filifera seems to laugh that off over here. So it seems. 

One thing to note is that there doesn't appear to be any Filifera in the southwest of England, even in the most favourable palm growing locations such as Cornwall or the Isles of Scilly. The southwest has the mildest winters in the UK, but their summers aren't particularly warm and they are almost certainly too wet, year-round, for Filifera. Hence why there isn't really any Filifera growing in the southwest of England. It only appears to be Robusta's and Filibusta hybrids growing there, which do very well still. But no Filifera's. 

However the opposite is true in the southeast of England. There are a LOT more Filifera's than Robusta's. I suspect part of that is due to cold waves coming across from the nearby continent and knocking out Robusta's in the southeast, whereas the Filifera's survive these cold snaps. Although London and the south coast do have quite a few Robusta's, which does somewhat contradict that theory. But there is clearly way more 'big' Filifera's compared to Robusta's in the southeast. Filifera obviously does better than Robusta in the long term, with the opposite being true for the southwest of England. So that is definitely an interesting observation. 

I actually don't think there are many tricks to grow Filifera, or Washies in general, in the southeast of England. I think the owners have literally just dug a hole and plonked small specimens in, which have then gone on to thrive and grown 20-25 feet in the space of 10-15 years. The soil is probably pretty decent and fertile and they get enough heat and rainfall for good sustained growth, but not so much rainfall that it effects them. So they are pretty happy growing in the southeast of England where the summers are warm and dry and winters are cool and wet. Maybe they do handle wet-cold better than people realise, hence why they are thriving here. I don't see Filifera's taking damage in winter here.

I actually think Dave Brown may have cheated himself out of some growth on his Kent Washie by planting into what I believe was modelling clay, and by restricting water, especially in summer. He could have just whacked it straight into soil like most of the others have done and it would probably be a bit bigger by now. Hence why the big Filifera's have grown as fast, if not faster, than Dave's hybrid Filibusta. I'm just speculating on that though. Some of those big Filifera's are planted in crappy soil, with no care or attention to drainage whatsoever, yet they are thriving. So it almost creates more questions than answers...

A few more pics I didn't upload previously...

Washie-13_1.jpg.0605ebe9434def24e70bb57e024f673b.jpg

Washie-14_1.jpg.4cf552861cd73fc1260188721dbb782c.jpg

68738054_1345707852254127_5444354386119622656_o.jpg.7f03d4d938b9935cef6bace7cd676b03.jpg

1495728766_Screenshot2021-03-08at20_45_51.thumb.png.a9201ffcbb69648158049d9d803df7c8.png

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jwitt

Just amazing!  Appreciate all the pics and back stories.  Thank you!

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Tassie_Troy1971
On 3/8/2021 at 3:43 PM, UK_Palms said:

Nobody was growing Washies here in the 80's. You had the odd Trachycarpus being planted here and there, but people weren't aware that other stuff like Chamaerops, CIDP and Washingtonia could grow here, or they didn't really have access to that kind of stuff. Residents certainly weren't growing those types in their gardens in the 80's. It wasn't until the 90's that experimental palm planting started happening properly and then people realised that these other types of palms could survive and even thrive here. It was between 2000-2005 when citizens really started planting stuff like Chamaerops, Phoenix and Washingtonia in their gardens and on streets.

A lot of these bigger specimens also survived the record cold in 2010 such as Barry's Filifera, the Canvey Filifera, the Wimbledon Filibusta and even Rupert Cavendish's Robusta. That winter was about as cold as it has ever got in the past 50 years and they came through okay. Pretty much all of the specimens in the photos also survived the 2018 'Beast from the East'. The Filifera's around London and the southeast didn't take damage. So I am confident that the established specimens will survive just about anything. At least in London and the coastal regions. There are certainly specimens in more marginal areas that may well die in the coming years.

I guess we'll have to see how many of these specimens are still around in say 10, or even 20 years time. I've made a pretty good photo record of all these specimens and stated their locations, so they can be monitored. I suspect these Washies will keep growing bigger, further increasing their chances of survival, and of course more and more of them will still keep getting planted. At least when the next big, major freeze hits it will probably separate the weak from the strong. I can't see the big 25-30 foot Filifera's getting touched now though. Time will tell I guess. 

 

6043_55zakpwq8631gimlug5z6an53-1.jpg.acc284061fe35cad01e9fafd34c8e9c5.jpg

WOW thanks for all the amazing pictures i never knew so many grew in the UK.

Washingtonia and Phoenix canariensis are an easy grow down here in coastal Tasmania

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petiole10
6 minutes ago, Tassie_Troy1971 said:

WOW thanks for all the amazing pictures i never knew so many grew in the UK.

Washingtonia and Phoenix canariensis are an easy grow down here in coastal Tasmania

As per previous perspective - these, self evidently, grow successfully enough in southern england - but that is just one small region of an island that comprises the UK, and there are surprising disparities in terms of plant tolerance from the southern most part of the isle to the northern most part of the isle.

Pages of pictures, and many of them are indisputably beautiful, must be taken in context that they represent a relatively small mildest part of the most concentrated urban and coastal part of a cool temperate island that despite its small size has enough differences to split growing zones for plants that are growing on the edge of their comfort zones

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Palmlover.

You wouldn't think this is London! 

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UK_Palms

Some more Washies growing in London...

Lewisham

1176662817_Screenshot2021-03-13at03_00_19.thumb.png.609e783250b505f79ab193fdfa97cb25.png

 

South London

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Decent sized Filifera growing at the back of a Kensal Town property. The street view isn't great as it is zoomed in due it being some distance away, but someone in the area could easily walk up to the palm and get a close up. There is also a second Filifera growing next to it, just out of shot.

1942001012_Screenshot2021-03-15at01_40_51.thumb.png.3686f2e11bfe720faed8a742d4b150d5.png

 

Spotted this massive Washingtonia crown on an aerial over Plaistow, east London. 

920612540_Screenshot2021-03-15at00_33_08.thumb.png.58f6ee88ea0d353e095efff09f8d0993.png

It turns out this is growing in that back yard. The image is a few years old and came from a property website, which unfortunately doesn't show the crown in person. That thing has almost 15 foot of trunk back then though. It's going to be even bigger now, judging by the size of that huge crown in the 2020 aerial image. I reckon that's almost a 30 footer now and probably a Robusta. Hopefully one of us guys in the UK will muster up the courage to knock on that guy's door some day, for. a picture...

89513_51314042_IMG_19_0000_max_656x437.jpg.8118aca72649f50a676c05eca8b4273d.jpg

 

Also, streetview has updated for the two big Robusta's in Richmond, near Kew Gardens... they're rockets given that this is at 51N latitude...

929028207_Screenshot2021-03-15at02_08_31.thumb.png.efe36bd10458b8534bd173f7b19165d9.png

They looked like this in 2013. So what will they look like in just another 8 years time!?

1984481884_Screenshot2021-03-15at02_15_24.thumb.png.ce26f12324b300507fc061c5745d07bf.png

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sipalms

Can we ask... how many hours did it take you to collate this list?!!!!!!!! Very impressive.

Funny thing is from my experience, one can drive through London all day and not see a single Washie, perhaps a CIDP if lucky.

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UK_Palms
17 hours ago, sipalms said:

Can we ask... how many hours did it take you to collate this list?!!!!!!!! Very impressive.

I spent a fair few hours, that's for sure! Although most of these specimens are ones that were already well known by the UK palm community. There is a select few of us who are pretty passionate about Washies and have been documenting them over here in recent months. Rob and Axel have helped massively with that. Some of them I found myself, either in person, or by using street view. No doubt there's loads more out there, just waiting to be found, given that about 1/3 of these specimens were only discovered by us in recent months. Yet they have clearly been there for years.

 

17 hours ago, sipalms said:

Funny thing is from my experience, one can drive through London all day and not see a single Washie, perhaps a CIDP if lucky.

You would be very hard pressed to spend all day driving around London without seeing a CIDP. I don't know when you last visited, or what parts you went to, but they are very common around London now. Plus I have only been uploading the bigger Washies to this thread, as well as the bigger CIDP's to my other thread as well. I have had to overlook, and leave out, literally hundreds of other, smaller specimens because I have uploaded so many others already. Prioritising the biggest first and all that.

The images I have uploaded clearly show that there are plenty of CIDP's and Washies about and they are thriving over here. No doubt we will discover more specimens that are out there right now, but other people will also clock on to this and plant more of them as well, after seeing other people's successes with them. So CIDP's and Washies are going to become more and more common moving forward. That's inevitable. I've still got quite a few more images to upload, but it's tedious and I have spent long enough already documenting the bigger specimens.

Here's another, smaller one though...

457916285_Screenshot2021-03-12at04_09_04.thumb.png.cd9851f0b0af7e0abf761c1c2410ec46.png

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sipalms

@UK_Palms Interesting. What are your thoughts on where Washies are a long term successful grow in the UK? Obviously pockets of the south coast would be very low risk of extreme cold but lack the heat required for rapid growth. So that leaves London with its UHI. What would a map with circles of 'washie success' look like around London for Robusta, Filibusta and ultimately Filifera?

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UK_Palms

@sipalms I would say that the entire length of England's south coast is long term for all washies nowadays, although there are some exceptions to that...

1) Filifera does not appear to do well in the southwest of England, where it is wetter year-round and cooler in summer with less sunlight. All of the decent Filifera's are in the southeastern counties of Essex, Kent, London etc. Places that are dryer year-round and sunnier with hotter summers. There isn't really any Filifera at all in Cornwall, Devon, Isles of Scilly etc, despite them having the mildest winters in the country. It's just too wet and humid for Filifera, but Filibusta hybrids and Robusta do fine in the southwest. 

2.) On the contrary, there isn't really any big Robusta's in the southeastern counties and certainly not outside of London. It's mostly Filifera and Filibusta hybrids that are found in Essex, Kent and Sussex. Likely due to Robusta's being wiped out by freezes every 5-10 years, being closer to the European continent and in the path of 'Beast from the East' events. The decent Robusta's are in the southwest and southern counties (Isles of Scilly, Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Hampshire). London is the exception to this though, due to it's massive UHI that allows them to grow Robusta long-term. 

3.) Filibusta hybrids seem to do well along the entire length of southern England, from the Isles of Scilly in the west to the Kent coast in the east. They seem to do especially well in the south-central coastal regions of Bournemouth, Portsmouth, Southampton, Isle of Wight etc. The big ones at Ventnor Botanic Garden are Filibusta hybrids. There's quite a few big ones in front gardens around Portsmouth and Southampton too. 

4.) All 3 types of Washingtonia... Robusta, Filifera and Filibusta hybrids are all long term in central and eastern London where it is relatively dry and never really drops below -5C. I don't know of any established washies being killed off by cold, or wet in these areas. However, Robusta becomes marginal in the northern, western and southern suburbs where the UHI is less pronounced and they may experience -7C once or twice each decade. In the outer London suburbs you will not see any Robusta's and even hybrids become marginal with the odd -9C every decade or so. The further you go from central London, the less Robusta and more Filifera. Where I am here, in a tiny village about 10-15 miles from the outer London suburbs, we get no UHI effect whatsoever and may go down to -10C or -11C once a decade. So Robusta definitely isn't hardy for me long-term here.

 

Anyway, here is the location for the big washie in Wimbledon, London... shown in 2019 on streetview...

1884962308_Screenshot2021-03-24at02_32_27.thumb.png.992bb7ebfd2adf575e2dd9c940bcd37f.png

This is it now...

thumbnail_image1-15.thumb.jpg.73716cc42c6f406a1efd0d0f52b1da12.jpg.fdecca0a204abafa82d5cc8d32eec434.jpg

thumbnail_image0-23.thumb.jpg.26137849fd69a7feb5601586c6c51396.jpg.8d707a27d5f51d4604ff80d80592d751.jpg

I thought it was a Filifera for several years, which it looks like in the street view... but since having it's skirt cleaned up last summer, I am now thinking that it is probably a Filibusta hybrid...?

Edited by UK_Palms
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UK_Palms

There's a bunch of Robusta's, or even Filibusta hybrids, growing in near total shade on the Old Brompton Road in Fulham, London. Quite a strange spot to place them, but they seem to be doing well enough. The trunks are bigger than they look, due to them being below ground level. The flats/apartments on the other side of the street completely shade them out in winter, yet they haven't really taken any winter damage at all, as seen in the recent video by RH GROWS...

968354951_Screenshot2021-03-26at21_45_32.thumb.png.8c4f17e7a5a5517357216cbe623b5681.png

 

Here's the recent close up video, after our coldest January in 11 years. The one in the middle is actually getting pretty big now...

 

A backyard Filifera spilling over the fence in Poplar, London. A decade from now, it will probably be about 30 feet tall, like the other big Filifera's in London, Essex and Kent. They put on about 20 feet of growth in 10 years, so it's roughly 2 foot of trunk a year for Filifera's in southeastern England, once they are about 5-10 feet in height. 

1766548873_Screenshot2021-03-22at03_08_45.thumb.png.0e2d11bf3b8b961bf24389a4d3409828.png

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SouthSeaNate

I would say that 99% of the Washingtonia growing in the UK are the filibusta hybrid, just that some may show more filifera or robusta traits. It is very hard to find pure Washingtonia in cultivation, the only way to be sure you were growing either would be to grow from seed from wild specimens. Considering that the majority of these palms have been planted within the last 10-15 years & would have been purchased from places like B&Q or even supermarkets would suggest that it would be extremely unlikely any of them are pure filifera or robusta.

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chad2468emr

Man, I am seriously one uncultured, American swine. :floor:

Haha I legitimately had no idea it was anywhere near warm enough in ANY part of England for palms to grow. I legitimately had to google it and pull up google maps to see how large England was and how far south in relation to Europe England sprawled on the island. It’s wild to me that England is so far north but the Gulf Stream warms parts of it enough to grow palms. 

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UK_Palms
4 hours ago, SouthSeaNate said:

I would say that 99% of the Washingtonia growing in the UK are the filibusta hybrid, just that some may show more filifera or robusta traits. It is very hard to find pure Washingtonia in cultivation, the only way to be sure you were growing either would be to grow from seed from wild specimens. Considering that the majority of these palms have been planted within the last 10-15 years & would have been purchased from places like B&Q or even supermarkets would suggest that it would be extremely unlikely any of them are pure filifera or robusta.


While I agree with you that the overwhelming majority of washies are hybrids (not just in the UK but in cultivation in general), there is no way that 99% of them are hybrids. The images in this thread show quite a lot of Filifera and Robusta's. We know Barry's big Filifera in north London is pure, as is the big Canvey one. Rupert Cavendish's big Robusta in Earl's court is pure as well. 

It is probably 70% hybrid, 20% Filifera and 10% Robusta in southeastern England. Or somewhere in that regions/ratio. I'm basing that off the pictorial evidence in this thread though, although it is hard to say for sure. A lot more of them could be hybrids than we realise, with some hybrids showing way more Filifera or Robusta traits, as you say. The hybrids do tend to lean one way, or the other. Was your washie in Southsea a hybrid, or Robusta? Any idea how it is doing now, since it was already pretty big about a decade or go. I haven't seen it in years now...?

Also, what are your thoughts on that big Wimbledon washie? I thought it was a Filifera for the past few years, but then it had its skirt cleaned up and was showing a much bigger trunk that looked quite hybrid like, as seen in my pictures above. However, I have now seen a quite recent video of it which shows it looking like pure Filifera again. Perhaps a Filifera dominant hybrid then? Either way, it must be about 30 foot tall now. Grown from seed by the owner, Jean-Marc Agius, an Italian migrant to London

.

Would you say it's a Filifera, or a Filibusta hybrid? I would have to guess that it is a Filifera dominant hybrid. Once it has the skirt cleaned off again next summer/autumn, it is going to look enormous, especially if we have another hot summer. The video just doesn't do it justice, compared to actually seeing it in person. The trunk alone is 3 stories high now (20 feet). 

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UK_Palms

RH GROWS is at it again with a video of the Ilford washie in north east London. This thing hasn't been fazed the slightest by the coldest January in 11 years and a pretty darn cold February too. I'm beginning to think that Filifera and Filibusta are absolutely bulletproof, once established, in the London area. These ones are nowhere near the central London UHI...

I found another growing in Tottenham, North London. The photo is 2 years old now, so it should be bigger...

1051752436_Screenshot2021-03-27at22_05_18.thumb.png.3313d02d09cb886060a21342222ded5f.png

 

Adam Sykes Robusta/Filibusta in Wimbledon, London...

JI_050919_AdamSykes_108-fb47ee1.jpg.a31b3e831e75187f4c7207ff474b4e5c.jpg

JI_300916_HGAdamSykes_009-house-3nov17-Jason-Ingram_b.thumb.jpg.8dd32a91498efbc97abfd1e3ba6efe55.jpg

 

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UK_Palms

The London washies just keep coming...

1674179564_Screenshot2021-03-30at02_56_04.thumb.png.2d7830855b94ce974f06e4e34146a308.png

1093701505_Screenshot2021-03-30at02_57_03.thumb.png.2cf969e86ff98d73b2d1d707b8c0194b.png

Kenneth Road, Romford

-img-3.thumb.jpg.b35f2107949dd4b49e453bd66b272206.jpg

Battersea Bridge Road, London

ba5cb4df-c5c0-42ac-acba-6528ce1b89d6-0.thumb.jpeg.bab4ed70a5d78ccb8d23dad34bd800cf.jpeg

64733350_3dd111b4-7d59-488d-add4-1fc927f8360e-02.thumb.jpg.e4a39b28130bdf9efe59eb57c64c25e3.jpg

11 Ingersoll Road, Enfield, north London

1360636821_151079_1115668-1_IMG_13_00002.jpg.433d45143b3b54fb89738cbea164276c.jpg

There's 3 in total in that back garden...

151079_1115668-1_IMG_14_0000.jpg.4652fc68d5abea18916e502118d615ff.jpg 

Some of these are smaller specimens that I am logging, to keep an eye on...

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1655879577_Screenshot2021-03-27at23_39_39.thumb.png.d8bc119b75171bcb9ec9219c2b3fbd26.png

This is at the Hilton Double Tree hotel in the Docklands, London. The photo is 4 years old now though. Need an update. The 2020 map aerials show that they are still there...

DENM7YkWAAAsFoF.jpg.6fe579d7ee2ed82e2e7917688f5b71f0.jpg

Washie with about 2m of trunk in Hamble...

1862603742_Screenshot2021-03-30at20_47_00.thumb.png.01891da184b3f39a2057bccef44afec3.png

Same house...

1358311044_Screenshot2021-03-30at20_46_23.thumb.png.36ecf643f070e0d242d430393b90e63b.png

A larger photo of the beast at 161 Munster Road, Fulham in London. This picture is over 5 years old now and this Filifera/hybrid's crown on the 2020 Google Earth aerial is huge. I might knock on this guy's door at some point...

94841_10000191_HOGE_IMG_02_0000_max_656x437.jpg.6817f5c3e1bb8b24e659729439110a02.jpg

 

Edited by UK_Palms
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UK_Palms

The London washies just keep coming... these are all suburban ones that are far outside of central London...

Southeast London...

1722239868_Screenshot2021-04-04at00_50_47.thumb.png.297ac545ce0526cce6ff99aa6c5ba202.png

Kathleen Avenue, Northwest London...

908-12.thumb.jpg.fd5eefd12b4d234656665bf0f089efd3.jpg

A decent sized Robusta in east London...

754947215_Screenshot2021-04-01at15_11_15.thumb.png.41789d3bb6ad44776c270497b3737768.png]

Filibusta hybrid in East London...?

Washie-AbbeyWood.thumb.png.60838d63eb6248410268a462209ad1a9.png

A big Filifera in southeast London...

1724504779_Screenshot2021-04-02at17_09_12.thumb.png.175eddec2b635b633f203da69dee47eb.png

643838869_Screenshot2021-04-02at17_08_33.thumb.png.38dff344af10a287dd23e9804ccaf3e5.png

God knows how many more Washies are lurking out there!? The London councils should start planting Filifera as street trees as they seem to be pretty much bulletproof in London. They look great and the Robusta's don't look too bad either.

Also, here is the biggest Washie at Sandsfoot castle, one of 4 that are planted there. Probably a Filibusta hybrid that is leaning towards Filifera dominance...

1976431137_Screenshot2021-04-04at23_01_09.thumb.png.16801318b1459d816eecfca68245c829.png

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Ryland

@UK_Palms are you growing any yourself?

I would like to offer another possible explanation to the apparent lack of Washingtonia in other parts of the country - it may just be that they haven't caught on yet or aren't available.  Phoenix canariensis and Washintonia robusta have similar hardiness but the garden centres all stock Phoenix here in the northwest and they all get snapped up - I think their availability is a more recent trend though, which came a few years behind London.  People mostly stick them in pots rather than the ground, and they certainly grow slower in pots.

I have studied the climate of Britain in depth (in fact my dissertation at university was based on a climate analysis and mapping project) and I don't think there is any reason based on the climate that Washingtonia have to be restricted to the south coast and London.  They will likely grow a touch faster in the southeast due to the extra heat, but the difference in summer heat (between London and northwest or the southwest) is relatively small and they still clearly grow happily in the southwest without that extra heat.  My unprotected Washingtonia just grew a nice new frond over late February / early March and there is another on the way!

Cold will be a limiting factor where temperatures below -5 to -7 are a regular occurrence, because the small ones sometimes won't pull through this.  Mature ones have been known to survive below -10 with defoliation (my mother's one in Oregon survived -18 with the assistance of some Christmas lights and a sheltered position).  Some spectacular survivals from the recent extreme cold event in Texas have been documented on this site.  This sort of cold does rule out unprotected growth of them in much of inland England, but both coasts, especially the west, very rarely see such temperatures.  This coastal moderation often extends well inland, particularly if there are no hills.  In a given year England's coldest temperature recorded often happens in Oxfordshire, where the distance from the sea plus some small ranges of hills in between results in a bit of a cold sink.

Perhaps we can use my Washingtonia as an experiment.  It was a mistake palm, that a local garden centre had mixed in with their Trachycarpus so I snapped it up.  It's been in the ground for two winters and is unprotected.  It's only a juvenile and will develop greater hardiness with time, but perhaps I can post regular updates of its progress so we can see whether it can succeed outside of London and the south coast.  In the photograph the lowest, front frond is the oldest one, which it had at the garden centre (where it had been quite battered).  The newest frond only opened a few weeks ago, and there's another starting to open now.

IMG_1566.thumb.JPG.404454754f29cfb93741d2880e501051.JPG

I think the climate here will be good for it.  The coldest temperature in the last ten years was -6, and we benefit from a nice mix of moderation from the Irish Sea and continental warmth that pushes up from the south.  I've had my own weather station for less than a year, so I only have one winter of really local data - this winter has seen four nights below freezing, with the coldest of those -2.7.  Average high/low in January is 7.4/2.4 and July is 21.7/12.7 (based on a nearby weather station that's been running since 2009, in a suburban setting a few miles further out from the city centre).  Note that we are in a bit of a weather station desert - the nearest Met Office official station is outside of the urban zone in an elevated, exposed spot that is considerably colder.  This is about as similar to Manchester as Sevenoaks is to London, which is why it is essential to take my own readings to monitor the real effects of local temperatures on the palm.

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UK_Palms

@Ryland You're up at 53N so you may have the furthest north washie that is planted out, assuming nobody else in Manchester has one, or anywhere further north...? Until we see another, I think you're setting the bar for the furthest north they can be grown anywhere in the world. I think there are a few washies in Liverpool and the Wirral too, but you're what, 50 miles further north than they are. So you have the furthest north documented one I believe, which is planted out and surviving. 

I am yet to locate any images of the Wirral Washies, but I do know of quite a few others on the east coast of England up at lat 52N as well. There are about 10 of them in total, at two separate crazy golf places that are both located on the seafront in Great Yarmouth (52N). They got fried during the February 2018 BFTE but have come back strong. They're definitely the furthest north washies on the east coast of England, for now at least.

Here is one of them a few years back...

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This street view image from 2018 shows 3 washies and a Trachycarpus inside one of the crazy golf compounds. They are all bigger now.

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Here's a more recent image from the other golf compound...

CroppedFocusedImage960600-IMG-4778.jpg.d32ae72499e24bf0000d91afb4bf45cb.jpg

 

Back to latitude 51N, I have a number of washies here, including hundreds of small seedlings that I am raising, but only two washies that are actually planted out right now. One is supposedly a Robusta, but it is probably a Filibusta hybrid in truth that is just Robusta dominant. Likewise, my Filifera is supposed to be pure Filifera, but it's probably a hybrid Filibusta as well, only Filifera dominant. I can see a tiny bit of red on some petiole bases, so it could be Filifera x Filibusta.

My 'Robusta', which is probably a Robusta dominant hybrid...

thumbnail_image0-6.thumb.jpg.ef68f31c71d3f9cc65263226f167a5da.jpg

 

My 'Filifera', which is probably just a Filifera dominant hybrid...

thumbnail_image1.thumb.jpg.d316d0ddd0a7ea57376b9727e77930c3.jpg

 

It's pretty dry down here at the moment. I've only had 0.09 inches of rainfall over the past 3 weeks. High pressure systems are just keeping rain away and any rain that does fall is unreadable. It's bloody cold for the time of year as well. I reached 26C (79F) exactly a week ago, yet I struggled to reach just 9C (48F) today. We're having a proper late spring cold snap for the next week or so. Temperatures well below average, but nothing palm killing now that we are into April. I doubt we'll get any frost here due to how dry it is. Outdoor humidity is only 51% here at 2am and it was as low as 19% on Monday afternoon. Indoor humidity is currently 22%. Just very dry in general. And cold. 

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Ryland

Hi @UK_Palms those are some nice ones you are growing!  Mine looks very much like your robusta.  I hope it is in fact robusta, because I'd prefer the narrow crown profile given my tiny garden.

Those ones on the east coast look good.  I'm not surprised they would have had some damage from the 2018 cold, but Washingtonia are very resilient and bounce back from foliage damage quickly.  The -6C temperatures we had here would have caused some leaf damage too I'm sure, but it was still a USDA zone 9 winter.

I'm on about the same latitude as Liverpool, so there may very well be further north ones there.  There are certainly places where they could be grown, further north than here.

Similarly we had 22 degrees about a week ago but yesterday was a high of only 7, and the overnight low was 0.5 (equalling my lowest temps of December and January), but quite dry.

I have a couple more London palms for you to add to your catalogue, see below - hopefully you don't already have these.  One is a Washingtonia in Greenwhich, the other some Phoenix in northwest London.  Doubtless you'll find many more.

eastney.thumb.JPG.29eec6605e1ced772331a82ee8292f41.JPG

lady_somerset.thumb.JPG.f80b5df397f6f7e40fc30175fb2ca174.JPG

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