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Swolte

First pictures of Palms at JFGardens after the big freeze of 2021

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Swolte
7 hours ago, Meangreen94z said:

Craig Jackson is back handling the nursery, atleast for now. Today he sounded like it was more of a permanent thing,  previously over email it sounded like he was just helping out.

That is great news!

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necturus

Man, that S. uresana with the cleaned up trunk looks fierce. I don't know why, but there was always something about those palms at JF that didn't quite do it for me. Probably because I always compared them to Bismarckia. When I see them like that though, dang. Line the streets with them, S. causarium and S. bermudana.

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Collectorpalms
On 12/6/2021 at 3:55 PM, necturus said:

Man, that S. uresana with the cleaned up trunk looks fierce. I don't know why, but there was always something about those palms at JF that didn't quite do it for me. Probably because I always compared them to Bismarckia. When I see them like that though, dang. Line the streets with them, S. causarium and S. bermudana.

Looking through my older pictures of Mercer Gardens, By IAH in 2018, a low of only 19, and followed by 21, defoliated their Sabal Causarium. I am 100% certain of its ID. I havent been back to see this years slaughter but I wouldn't be surprised if it died. So it is one of the more tender Sabals.

I have the more blue green Sabal Uresana. It almost defoliated from 4F but it did come back strong. I actually think its a nicer form than the ones at Peckerwood, but I am envious of the intense silver. 

I have Sabal Bermudana, Its not very big because it was shaded out, but it defoliated and now no longer has a Washintonia Filifera to compete with, but it is SLOOOW.

I have just brainwashed myself to love Sabal Palmetto. The only tall Palm that looked fine!

Edited by Collectorpalms

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necturus

I've visited Mercer several times since the freeze. The palm collection took a massive hit - most if not all mules and all Livistona dead. But, I am almost certain none of their Sabals died. I also don't think they even took much if any damage. 

I do not have a trunking S. causarium, but mine is getting close and has huge leaves. No protection, no damage here in Houston. My S. bermudana had a funky spear but also otherwise looks like nothing happened.

So, if the S. causarium took damage back then, wonder if something was wrong with it? I had a Sabal lisa die that was unhappy before the freeze. Go figure.

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Collectorpalms
5 hours ago, necturus said:

I've visited Mercer several times since the freeze. The palm collection took a massive hit - most if not all mules and all Livistona dead. But, I am almost certain none of their Sabals died. I also don't think they even took much if any damage. 

I do not have a trunking S. causarium, but mine is getting close and has huge leaves. No protection, no damage here in Houston. My S. bermudana had a funky spear but also otherwise looks like nothing happened.

So, if the S. causarium took damage back then, wonder if something was wrong with it? I had a Sabal lisa die that was unhappy before the freeze. Go figure.

Here you go.... Sabal causiarum in the summer ( June 24, 2018) after 19F/21F at IAH at Mercer Arboretum. The classic blown paper stip-like ligules that is known only on Sabal Causarium can be seen around the trunk, and even one on the ground by the Plant ID sign. There are plenty of smaller fried palms in the background of the pictures so it didnt have anything wrong with it prior to the freeze. It was actually not located in the main area of the palms. It was completely fried except had started to grow out of it. It also somewhat matches one big sabal at the San Antonio Botanical Gardens rumored to be a Causiarum as far as what temperature it burns. I am not sure if it recovered this year, it had about 20 plus FT of trunking wood.

I Hope its bud hardiness with size saved it.

sabal causarium.JPG

sabal causarium sign.JPG

Edited by Collectorpalms

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Meangreen94z

They may have Sabal Dominguensis instead. I’ve read true Causiarum is much leaf hardier as seen at John Fairey Garden.

I know Joseph at NTCHP thought he was growing Causiarum, but after investigating why it burned around 20*F realized he had Dominguensis.

There was another thread where the same misidentification was realized.

 

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Collectorpalms

Sabal Dominguensis does not have the paper liguels, at least everything I have read on here. Also the one at Peckerwoods Never looked anything like either one of them!]. I have seem them in person in Florida at Fairchild gardens. I am not an expert, but I am going with it.

Show me the liguels are wrong, Id rather be wrong because I have sabal Causiarium in pots I would rather plant, but I think I will wait till we hit 19F to test them.

EDIT: REREAD The above like you sent the Liguels things are still a mystery. I will say that while the palm is not fried it is a VERY impressive palm. It is something out of Jurassic park for a sabal when you stand next to it.

The only other sabal as close to being distinctly different yet impressive I think are the ones on Rice Ave in Houston, but they do not have Liguels and never have seeds either. I think they may be Maritima or Guatamala possibly, and would be hardier than this one as they did ok this winter.

Edited by Collectorpalms

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Meangreen94z

Yeah I don’t know for sure either, but I definitely want the the big Sabal that strolls through single digits. Whatever it’s called I’m fine with. Im sourcing seed and small palms from different sources to hopefully find a winner. 

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Fusca
9 hours ago, necturus said:

I've visited Mercer several times since the freeze. The palm collection took a massive hit - most if not all mules and all Livistona dead. But, I am almost certain none of their Sabals died. I also don't think they even took much if any damage. 

I do not have a trunking S. causarium, but mine is getting close and has huge leaves. No protection, no damage here in Houston. My S. bermudana had a funky spear but also otherwise looks like nothing happened.

So, if the S. causarium took damage back then, wonder if something was wrong with it? I had a Sabal lisa die that was unhappy before the freeze. Go figure.

I was surprised at the damage at Mercer in January 2018 from 19°F and always wondered if it was a combination of factors.  There was considerable flooding just a few months earlier from Hurricane Harvey so I think some palms were weakened some before the freeze.

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necturus
1 hour ago, Fusca said:

I was surprised at the damage at Mercer in January 2018 from 19°F and always wondered if it was a combination of factors.  There was considerable flooding just a few months earlier from Hurricane Harvey so I think some palms were weakened some before the freeze.

Great point.

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