Pine Island

[Steve the palmreader]

3 hours ago, NickJames said:

I’m guessing the line item on the property tax bill is to repay the bonds for it. 

 Not all of Harbor Drive is paved/

[RedRabbit]

5 hours ago, Fusca said:

This is what I am doing here in Texas.  Lucky to have a renter who likes gardening and doesn't mind watering Archontophoenix!  Makes it easier to get small palms established.  And I see you're actually a red rabbit now!  What ever happened to Winnie the Pooh?  

Good stuff! It works out very well for palm collectors as long as your tenants are cooperative, which isn’t a given. I remember a couple of my Veitchia were run over and one of my coconuts outright went missing. My lesson from that is install larger palms that are harder for tenants to damage/steal. 

As for the avatar change, identity crisis. 

4 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Yes. For investment purposes? I don't recommend vacant land. That said, FL is being invaded from all parts north and that probably includes PI. I suspect the incomers will eventually overwhelm FL natives and longtime residents and impose their will on everything, chase out farms and nurseries, establish gated communities and poncy shopping. I think the changeover is underway. The only thing that might help save PI as it was is that there have been conservation groups buying and consolidating tracts of land to create preserves and wildlife habitat from money-grubbing developers. So, in a few years or a few decades your land might attract big bucks as a site for Mega-McMansions Estates.

There’s another risk with vacant land that you’re sort of hinting at... An area is getting overdeveloped and people don’t want more ‘Mega-McMansions’ because the local utilities aren’t sufficient, etc. So they vote to put a moratorium on development. Then your land value plummets because you can’t build on it.

This isn’t a huge risk and probably something more relevant to rezonings, but it’s still something to keep in the back of your mind. I used to own some vacant land and was very uncomfortable with this risk.

Edited March 3, 2021 by RedRabbit

[PalmatierMeg]

@RedRabbit, thanks for the reminder. Pine Island has and does(?) put moratoriums on development and has been taken to court by developers itching to build McMansions. So far, the islanders are holding their own. I haven't worked at Little Pine Island since 2013 so I'm not up on current events there.

[NickJames]

9 hours ago, PalmatierMeg said:

@RedRabbit, thanks for the reminder. Pine Island has and does(?) put moratoriums on development and has been taken to court by developers itching to build McMansions. So far, the islanders are holding their own. I haven't worked at Little Pine Island since 2013 so I'm not up on current events there.

The lot I’m looking at is zoned RS-1. The restrictions seem reasonable. 30 feet height maximum of structure, fairly standard setbacks, etc. No more than 1/3 or something like that of lot can be taken up by structure. 

[NickJames]

I’ve just been offered a free hurricane-proof modular home structure if I go with an empty lot. A longtime friend is involved in development of resilient and sustainable structures. 

Its sister modules survived Irma in The Keys with no damage. 

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

I agree that bare land on PI might not be the best long term investment.  And bare land takes more maintenance than you might imagine to keep weed species and junk trees out.

 

Think about two or three prefab cottages and you could get rental income.  Maybe one tenant could help with maintenance.

[Jerry@TreeZoo]

 

[NickJames]

1 minute ago, Jerry@TreeZoo said:

 

<3

[tropical1]

A couple thoughts on the microclimates. First closer to Bokeelia is better since the north wind comes off the water as folks have noted. Second, elevation matters with higher elevation preferred. One year after a freeze we traveled to pine island and were driving down a road with two coconut palm farms (one on left of road and one on the right). The right side (if I remember correctly) had higher elevation and the coconuts were completely green with no damage, On the left side the elevation of land was lower and the coconuts were toasty brown. Assume this would have been a radiational type of event. So my vote would be highest elevation land closest to north end. Overall I think it is great place for growing tropical palms.

 

Good luck

[NickJames]

[sonoranfans]

On 3/4/2021 at 3:58 PM, Jerry@TreeZoo said:

 

With termites in florida, I cringe when I see "all wood" houses.   At least with concrete block walls you have advance warning when they build the mud tunnels up the side of your house to dine on your roof.   

[RedRabbit]

14 hours ago, NickJames said:

Not exactly the palmiest of places. lol

Is this the lot you want?

[PalmatierMeg]

They weren't kidding when they named it Pine Island. Only native palms are Sabal palmetto and Serenoa repens.

[redant]

Yep that's a dry lot. You will be hard pressed to grow your dream jungle there without irrigation.  My back yard was like that before I expanded my irrigation, was the place to torture palms.

[NickJames]

Well, despite the mixed feelings here...I’m under contract. 

The lot has municipal water service so irrigation will be no problem. I won’t need a well. The island apparently has good water. I checked the annual report.

VERY long-term thing. I was totally in love with it the moment I got out of the truck. I love the island. It speaks to me.

I talked to the neighbor across the street in the hurricane-proof round house. He has mangoes and Buddha belly bamboo that looked nice. It did not appear that he had irrigation but I could be wrong. He apparently loves living there. 

[RedRabbit]

8 minutes ago, NickJames said:

Well, despite the mixed feelings here...I’m under contract. 

Congrats, when do you close? Is this in Bokeelia?

That’s awesome you’ll have a zone 10 climate to work with. What do you plan on planting first? 

[dwfl]

43 minutes ago, NickJames said:

Well, despite the mixed feelings here...I’m under contract. 

The lot has municipal water service so irrigation will be no problem. I won’t need a well. The island apparently has good water. I checked the annual report.

VERY long-term thing. I was totally in love with it the moment I got out of the truck. I love the island. It speaks to me.

I talked to the neighbor across the street in the hurricane-proof round house. He has mangoes and Buddha belly bamboo that looked nice. It did not appear that he had irrigation but I could be wrong. He apparently loves living there. 

IMG_4439.mov

 

Welcome to Bokeelia! The city water here for the island is fantastic and plants love it. If you bought on the ridge, good job! Higher than most parts of the mainland.  Noseeums and Mosquitos can get bad in the rainy season.

[NickJames]

9 minutes ago, dwfl said:

 

Welcome to Bokeelia! The city water here for the island is fantastic and plants love it. If you bought on the ridge, good job! Higher than most parts of the mainland.  Noseeums and Mosquitos can get bad in the rainy season.

Yes, someone called it that; “the ridge”

Zone X which is good!

[NickJames]

41 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

Congrats, when do you close? Is this in Bokeelia?

That’s awesome you’ll have a zone 10 climate to work with. What do you plan on planting first? 

3 weeks. It’s cash so not much red tape, but title searches are apparently taking 2 weeks with how busy they are. 

I’m not sure what I’ll plant. I saw a $20 cocos at the Cape Coral Lowe’s I thought I would stick in the ground just for giggles since I don’t have irrigation at this point. 
 

Yes, Bokeelia! 6438 Fuller Drive. My name is so uncommon so it’s not like I can hide the address forever once it’s mine. 

[RedRabbit]

1 minute ago, NickJames said:

3 weeks. It’s cash so not much red tape, but title searches are apparently taking 2 weeks with how busy they are. 

I’m not sure what I’ll plant. I saw a $20 cocos at the Cape Coral Lowe’s I thought I would stick in the ground just for giggles since I don’t have irrigation at this point. 
 

Yes, Bokeelia! 6438 Fuller Drive. My name is so uncommon so it’s not like I can hide the address forever once it’s mine. 

I’m looking at the property history and it seems like a flip so to speak. It was just sold for 20k in November and they raised the price after clearing the property. I guess the higher price is justified, but maybe not as much as they were asking. In any event, as a realtor I’m sure you got a good deal on it. And the fact that it has city water is a nice bonus. 

By the way, if you did want to keep your name off the property you could put it in a trust. 

[NickJames]

3 minutes ago, RedRabbit said:

I’m looking at the property history and it seems like a flip so to speak. It was just sold for 20k in November and they raised the price after clearing the property. I guess the higher price is justified, but maybe not as much as they were asking. In any event, as a realtor I’m sure you got a good deal on it. And the fact that it has city water is a nice bonus. 

By the way, if you did want to keep your name off the property you could put it in a trust. 

Got it below asking 

Yeah, you’re paying for the clearing and grubbing that was done. 
 

Now I just need to maintain it...

[NickJames]

Idea: if I did plant a few things, couldn’t I just get a water truck to come by twice weekly and spray down the planted areas?

[awkonradi]

12 hours ago, NickJames said:

Well, despite the mixed feelings here...I’m under contract. 

I think you bought a beautiful property.  I can just imagine a structure, palms, and native pines and Serenoa.  Enjoy!

Edited March 10, 2021 by awkonradi

[PalmatierMeg]

Congratulations on your little piece of Old Florida!

[redant]

Congratulations.  Land prices there are a steal compared to this area.  

[sonoranfans]

Nick, with our dry spring here, the sandy soil, and no irrigation I'd wait to plant till the wet season starts.  That sandy soil down there is going to be hard to keep moist when you have no irrigation.  Sandy soil will need to get wet at least every other day for new plantings in the spring.   I remember larry joliffe saying that irrigation was an absolute must down there for most palms.   I remember thinking when I moved from arizona that watering would be so easy, comparatively.  As it turns out the sandy soil trashed that assumption when compared with AZ clay it holds no water.  Mulch like a madman as it also is digested and rinses away.   I would seriously look into heavy soil modification there.  You might try a couple tons of "turface mvp" to improve water retention.  I grew my garden for 7 years while working out of state for 11 months a year, I visited 2-3 times per year.  I had auto irrigation, but it did break a couple times, killing a bunch of smaller palms.

[NickJames]

2 minutes ago, sonoranfans said:

Nick, with our dry spring here, the sandy soil, and no irrigation I'd wait to plant till the wet season starts.  That sandy soil down there is going to be hard to keep moist when you have no irrigation.  Sandy soil will need to get wet at least every other day for new plantings in the spring.   I remember larry joliffe saying that irrigation was an absolute must down there for most palms.   I remember thinking when I moved from arizona that watering would be so easy, comparatively.  As it turns out the sandy soil trashed that assumption when compared with AZ clay it holds no water.  Mulch like a madman as it also is digested and rinses away.   I would seriously look into heavy soil modification there.  You might try a couple tons of "turface mvp" to improve water retention.  I grew my garden for 7 years while working out of state for 11 months a year, I visited 2-3 times per year.  I had auto irrigation, but it did break a couple times, killing a bunch of smaller palms.

The good news is (I hope) - the seller mulched all of the cleared debris right on site and it was spread pretty uniformly across the lot. I hope once the wet season starts this will start to break down and add organic material to the soil. 

I also plan to do some soil tests through UF (like I did for my own home) before planting anything spectacular.

PS - contacted a water truck company in Lee Co. who service Pine Island. Depending on cost, this will also be an option. They fill up swimming pools for $300. 
 

It will be about $4000 to establish service with Pine Island Water CoOp.

[KDubU]

Very nice! Congrats I am sure you will it beautiful

over time.

[JohnAndSancho]

On 3/1/2021 at 9:38 PM, NickJames said:

So as many of you know, I’m a REALTOR 

 

Off topic. I know I'm 4 states and a time zone away but I could use professional advice. Can I send a PM?

[NickJames]

54 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Off topic. I know I'm 4 states and a time zone away but I could use professional advice. Can I send a PM?

Yes absolutely. 

[NickJames]

Next question is: what are the best nurseries in and around Pine Island? 

[redant]

On 3/10/2021 at 11:25 AM, sonoranfans said:

Nick, with our dry spring here, the sandy soil, and no irrigation I'd wait to plant till the wet season starts.  That sandy soil down there is going to be hard to keep moist when you have no irrigation.  Sandy soil will need to get wet at least every other day for new plantings in the spring.   I remember larry joliffe saying that irrigation was an absolute must down there for most palms.   I remember thinking when I moved from arizona that watering would be so easy, comparatively.  As it turns out the sandy soil trashed that assumption when compared with AZ clay it holds no water.  Mulch like a madman as it also is digested and rinses away.   I would seriously look into heavy soil modification there.  You might try a couple tons of "turface mvp" to improve water retention.  I grew my garden for 7 years while working out of state for 11 months a year, I visited 2-3 times per year.  I had auto irrigation, but it did break a couple times, killing a bunch of smaller palms.

I certainly agree, having land just like this. Don't plant anything until the rains start. When my back was not fully irrigated I hose irrigate  the few palms I had planted. The water would  bead off the surface leaving almost nothing under the top inch.  No need to get the soil tested, it's just sand and more sand with a sprinkle of pine needles.

[PJP]

Premier Growers Inc will have some hard to find palms.  They have 1G to 15G sized palms.  They are on the Island.

[NickJames]

11 hours ago, PJP said:

Premier Growers Inc will have some hard to find palms.  They have 1G to 15G sized palms.  They are on the Island.

Thank you!

[sonoranfans]

Nick, pine trees drop needles which are quite acidic.  You might want to make sure your soil is not too acidic and that means that overhead pine trees are going to be a problem for some species.   I woud put down dolomitic lime to moderate the acidity.  In the beginning I will suggest planting drought tolerant palms to cut some of the sun drying heat.  Bismarckia, borassus Ae and b. alfredii have proven themselves to me when my irrigation system went down.  I have more drought tolerant palms but these showed minimal drought stress (after being in the ground a few years).  Even livistona decora and chinensis showed the stress(premature browning of lower leaves) while archies and kentiopsis were not happy at all even in rich soil(not sand).  If your property is a little sloped, soil can rinse away in a downpour.  I addressed this by using landscape pavers around palms backed by weed netting to trap the mulch and keep it local as much as possible.  Good luck with your soon to be garden, but be prepared to "mulch like a madman" every year for a while if you want to grow those water loving species.  I am in year 10, still mulching.   

[NickJames]

6 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Nick, pine trees drop needles which are quite acidic.  You might want to make sure your soil is not too acidic and that means that overhead pine trees are going to be a problem for some species.   I woud put down dolomitic lime to moderate the acidity.  In the beginning I will suggest planting drought tolerant palms to cut some of the sun drying heat.  Bismarckia, borassus Ae and b. alfredii have proven themselves to me when my irrigation system went down.  I have more drought tolerant palms but these showed minimal drought stress (after being in the ground a few years).  Even livistona decora and chinensis showed the stress(premature browning of lower leaves) while archies and kentiopsis were not happy at all even in rich soil(not sand).  If your property is a little sloped, soil can rinse away in a downpour.  I addressed this by using landscape pavers around palms backed by weed netting to trap the mulch and keep it local as much as possible.  Good luck with your soon to be garden, but be prepared to "mulch like a madman" every year for a while if you want to grow those water loving species.  I am in year 10, still mulching.   

What about pseudophoenix sargentii? Is that “drought tolerant”...is it really native to the Florida Keys?

[PalmatierMeg]

11 minutes ago, NickJames said:

What about pseudophoenix sargentii? Is that “drought tolerant”...is it really native to the Florida Keys?

Good choice. Yes. And yes.

[sonoranfans]

1 hour ago, NickJames said:

What about pseudophoenix sargentii? Is that “drought tolerant”...is it really native to the Florida Keys?

yep it is a good palm in drought and even better when exposed to salt.  My sisters gardener killed one of the Pseudophoenix sargenti var navissano planted on her beachblock house by planting it with and watering it with the crotons in rich soil.  The survivor was in poor soil near the road, mainly sand, and it grew very quickly for a sargenti.  The "navissano" variety rings are further spaced, its a much faster grower.

[KDubU]

This is what I want if I move to Pine Island 

Check out this home at Realtor.com
$1,695,000
3beds · 4baths
10492 Pine Island Dr, Weeki Wachee

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/10492-Pine-Island-Dr_Weeki-Wachee_FL_34607_M57377-75025?cid=other_shares_core_ldp_ios

Edited to add, just noticed this is the other Pine Island. Doh!

Edited March 17, 2021 by KDubU

[ck_in_fla]

5 hours ago, KDubU said:

This is what I want if I move to Pine Island 

Check out this home at Realtor.com
$1,695,000
3beds · 4baths
10492 Pine Island Dr, Weeki Wachee

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/10492-Pine-Island-Dr_Weeki-Wachee_FL_34607_M57377-75025?cid=other_shares_core_ldp_ios

Edited to add, just noticed this is the other Pine Island. Doh!

Weeki Wachee is North of Tampa.  Perhaps "Pine Island" is just the name of the street.