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PDXPalm

Trachycarpus fortunei - Dallas

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PDXPalm

Well my Robusta is dead, jury is still on the Windmill's.  Anyone else in Dallas that have had them survive after last week?

 

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TexasColdHardyPalms

Your windmills are far from dead.  

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PalmsNC

I'm personally interested in what survived in  Dallas. I don't think any of the zone 8B or higher palms survived? Perhaps a few Sabal Palmetto, then of course the bulletproof windmills/minor/needle. Oklahoma city now ... idk if they would even have any needles left there.

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PDXPalm
24 minutes ago, PalmsNC said:

I'm personally interested in what survived in  Dallas. I don't think any of the zone 8B or higher palms survived? Perhaps a few Sabal Palmetto, then of course the bulletproof windmills/minor/needle. Oklahoma city now ... idk if they would even have any needles left there.

I will keep everyone posted.  We have plenty of Windmill's in the neighborhood.  They will all loose their fronds for sure.  

I have seven planted, 3 in the last two years.  They are all mature trees. 

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palmnut-fry

I have one 20 footer in front looks awful- it was planted from an old nursery in Tyler from 1988! She made it through the unbeliveable cold of '89-90! Another one, from about 5 years later, is in better shape but was in South-facing backyard and has a petticoat i left intact cuz i like the look. Maybe it aided survival as the leaves on top are almost alive?

Needles & S. minors are all fine. I was surprised that my 30 year S. bermudana pulled through with spears all green, smaller seedling semi fine. We never lost power here, but I forgot my heaters in greenhouse one of the coldest mornings & they cut off mid morn- went down to 25* in short order b4 i noticed!~ DAMNNNN Ruined a few things in there, to say the least but luckily even my tropicals are mostly hardy stuff (aloes, ficus, & assorted stuff). Most of it will recover. Can hardly wait for this to be a distant memory!

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Jtee

Since needles and sabal minors survived that polar vortex.... Do you think they could survive up North winters as a common northern plant?

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Chester B
25 minutes ago, Jtee said:

Since needles and sabal minors survived that polar vortex.... Do you think they could survive up North winters as a common northern plant?

If they could you would see them around.  A few cold days a year or every so often is not the same as a northern winter with extended freezes.

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Jtee

I get that but what Texas experienced for several days in a row would be a cold front for most northern cities.   

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Ben OK
20 minutes ago, Jtee said:

I get that but what Texas experienced for several days in a row would be a cold front for most northern cities.   

One of the big problem with growing them farther north is that events like the one we just experienced (around -15F in OKC) will generally kill anything green above the ground or snow. Sabal minor can definitely recover from this event, but they grow slow. It will be a couple of years or more before they look good again. So you might be able to grow them in a place like Kansas City or St Louis but you would probably run into a couple of problems. The first problem is that this kind of cold would be much more common. So even if marginal plants may survive the once a decade or once every 1/4 century cold event, they may not survive those events if they happen every year or every other year. The other issue is even if they survive with significant leaf burn every year, they may never look any good in a landscape if they are always just clinging to life.

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Allen
2 hours ago, Jtee said:

Since needles and sabal minors survived that polar vortex.... Do you think they could survive up North winters as a common northern plant?

Where up north?  Sabal Minor zone limit is usually 6a or 6b.  Minors generally can take down to 0F easy and are easy to protect.  Mine just took 1" of ice then 5" snow here that flattened them to the ground and when it melted they look like nothing happened.  If it gets below 0F you can throw a bag of mulch over the middle and save them.  

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TexasColdHardyPalms

I've posted many times but there are needles that I planted as 3g plants on the ky/in border 5 years ago that look great and never watered it protected. 

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cm05

I’m “up North” and Dallas got colder than anything I’ve seen in my lifetime, which is about 0 degrees. Needles and Sabal minors grow in the open unprotected, they’re just uncommon for whatever reason.

Edited by cm05

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Jtee
On 3/2/2021 at 6:27 AM, cm05 said:

I’m “up North” and Dallas got colder than anything I’ve seen in my lifetime, which is about 0 degrees. Needles and Sabal minors grow in the open unprotected, they’re just uncommon for whatever reason.

Where are you located? 

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tlow

I have five larger Fortunei, lost one (mushy spear pull), performed surgery and it was dead so it got pulled.  The other four I believe are going to make it just fine.  I've marked them all, can see movement besides one which has quite a bit of white\color loss on the fronds but I'm optimistic.

Question for the group.. I realize as part of this event many of my exposed fronds just look awful, even the spears that were exposed look awful (white, lack of color, etc).  They all got two rounds of copper (one immediately after the freeze when it thawed, and one over a week later) and a peroxide treatment.  I trimmed a lot of the dead brown crinkled ends of the fronds and question is this... should I expect to see as much brown, dead crinkled material as I am?  These were just planted in October, I reckon they are 15-20# sized.  Should I not really worry as long as there is new growth coming in the way of new spears?  Should I expect to lose most, if not all of these fronds that were exposed?  I don't have a single frond that is even 70%+ green.  I feel confident these guys will make it based on the new growth, but the amount of lousy looking fronds and white foliage is an eyesore.

Just trying to figure out do I worry with the fronds looking how they are, or just keep on keeping on given that they're all pushing new green spears.  Thanks in advance!

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PricklyPearSATC
On 3/1/2021 at 6:38 PM, Jtee said:

I get that but what Texas experienced for several days in a row would be a cold front for most northern cities.   

I would not attempt this in places like Wisconsin etc. Palms do not make good "die back" perennials. 


Texas had cold for a week.  I know the ground did not freeze in San Antonio.  This was once in a  30 year freeze. 

We also have lots of heat, which allows palms to recover. It was 88 degrees yesterday. 

Generally palms can be tried in areas where winters have cycles of warm and cold..like Washington DC etc....areas where it snows, but doesn't stick....(South of the "snow line") 

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PricklyPearSATC
6 hours ago, tlow said:

I have five larger Fortunei, lost one (mushy spear pull), performed surgery and it was dead so it got pulled.  The other four I believe are going to make it just fine.  I've marked them all, can see movement besides one which has quite a bit of white\color loss on the fronds but I'm optimistic.

Question for the group.. I realize as part of this event many of my exposed fronds just look awful, even the spears that were exposed look awful (white, lack of color, etc).  They all got two rounds of copper (one immediately after the freeze when it thawed, and one over a week later) and a peroxide treatment.  I trimmed a lot of the dead brown crinkled ends of the fronds and question is this... should I expect to see as much brown, dead crinkled material as I am?  These were just planted in October, I reckon they are 15-20# sized.  Should I not really worry as long as there is new growth coming in the way of new spears?  Should I expect to lose most, if not all of these fronds that were exposed?  I don't have a single frond that is even 70%+ green.  I feel confident these guys will make it based on the new growth, but the amount of lousy looking fronds and white foliage is an eyesore.

Just trying to figure out do I worry with the fronds looking how they are, or just keep on keeping on given that they're all pushing new green spears.  Thanks in advance!

Remove brown...Keep green...
I kept the stems on my Livistona because they were green.  I removed the fronds because they were brown.  Eventually, you will probably see more die back on the pruned fronds, so you can prune again.   I have not pruned the spear of my Livistona, (it is brown and green.) although I see alot of people do prune spears here.  (I have the spear marked) 

I'm in San Antonio and my trachycarpus has tip burn on a few fronds.  A few older fronds/stems have died back prematurely.  (It is not the healthiest, but that's another story)  It took a few weeks to show damage! 

I'm no expert...But I'm reading that green benefits the palm.
Dead fronds also seem to harbor mold. 

Edited by PricklyPearSATC

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amh

The only green palms in my area are Trachycarpus, all others are brown.

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John Derek

They look worse than my wash fil and butia. On the inside mine are growing. I wrapped them up before winter precipitation. 120 hours below freezing...the birds were living under them! 0.5F was an all time low.

DD5F55F0-A758-4A9E-B26A-8A44C53F9DA5.jpeg

A67DAADD-5165-4D49-B97D-6A8AE1CDFD13.jpeg

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tlow
13 minutes ago, John Derek said:

They look worse than my wash fil and butia. On the inside mine are growing. I wrapped them up before winter precipitation. 120 hours below freezing...the birds were living under them! 0.5F was an all time low.

DD5F55F0-A758-4A9E-B26A-8A44C53F9DA5.jpeg

A67DAADD-5165-4D49-B97D-6A8AE1CDFD13.jpeg

Literally how all of mine look but are growing near spears slowly but surely... whew.. thought mine just looked like this..  Hope yours pull through!

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NBTX11
10 hours ago, amh said:

The only green palms in my area are Trachycarpus, all others are brown.

Filifera are pushing green spears in the Hill Country.  I also saw Sabals pushing what appeared to be new growth as far north as Lampasas TX 100 miles north of you in the Hill Country.  I also saw some large Filifera in Hamlilton TX, 150 miles north of you that appeared that they will probably recover (no crown collapse).   I took 281 all the way to Wichita Falls, and in Wichita Falls I saw a medium sized Filifera, maybe 10-12 feet tall, that did not appear to have a collapsed crown.  I was going down the road with my family in the car, so I did not have time to drive up to it an inspect it.  I only saw it from a distance. 

Edited by NBTX11

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NBTX11
10 hours ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

I would not attempt this in places like Wisconsin etc. Palms do not make good "die back" perennials. 


Texas had cold for a week.  I know the ground did not freeze in San Antonio.  This was once in a  30 year freeze. 

We also have lots of heat, which allows palms to recover. It was 88 degrees yesterday. 

Generally palms can be tried in areas where winters have cycles of warm and cold..like Washington DC etc....areas where it snows, but doesn't stick....(South of the "snow line") 

Correct, what a lot of people don't realize is, that even in a 30 year freeze (this may have actually been a 50 to 100 year freeze, when freeze length is taken in effect), a week later it's in the 80's, allowing palms to recover.

In San Antonio, it was in the 80's both the week before the freeze AND the week after the freeze.  And there has been nothing remotely resembling a freeze since the cold snap ended.

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tlow

Here is what ours look like.. Again, I pruned off most if not all of the dead brown, crunch fronds and left the green.  I have marked the spears and closest frond and seems like some are very visibly moving, and some are becoming less tight and spreading the fronds out, so something is clearly happening.. We've got sun for the rest of the week, little rain today so hopefully we can get some actual movement out of these guys!  I'm very optimistic and figure if these guys can take this weather event without any protection whatsoever we should be good for the future.IMG_20210316_102412.thumb.JPG.e592aca71e82f05c3cdf29e783ef30a7.JPG

 

IMG_20210316_102416.thumb.JPG.cee9006af8953086adfc803deefbc6ae.JPG

IMG_20210316_102425.thumb.JPG.f9702cf8e1c78e27441323e65dec01d3.JPG

IMG_20210316_102451.thumb.JPG.73cd4fe39b53c37160160503039f7597.JPG

IMG_20210316_102509.thumb.JPG.21159a75479591b09e81fa8fc012ad86.JPG

Below is our un-related Blue Java Banana... not a palm, but stoked to have this one in our backyard oasis!  Should compliment the palms well.

IMG_20210316_184253.thumb.JPG.3a88777292e4ce4ae6c70317ca1648d8.JPG

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Teegurr
4 hours ago, tlow said:

Here is what ours look like.. Again, I pruned off most if not all of the dead brown, crunch fronds and left the green.  I have marked the spears and closest frond and seems like some are very visibly moving, and some are becoming less tight and spreading the fronds out, so something is clearly happening.. We've got sun for the rest of the week, little rain today so hopefully we can get some actual movement out of these guys!  I'm very optimistic and figure if these guys can take this weather event without any protection whatsoever we should be good for the future.IMG_20210316_102412.thumb.JPG.e592aca71e82f05c3cdf29e783ef30a7.JPG

 

IMG_20210316_102416.thumb.JPG.cee9006af8953086adfc803deefbc6ae.JPG

IMG_20210316_102425.thumb.JPG.f9702cf8e1c78e27441323e65dec01d3.JPG

IMG_20210316_102451.thumb.JPG.73cd4fe39b53c37160160503039f7597.JPG

IMG_20210316_102509.thumb.JPG.21159a75479591b09e81fa8fc012ad86.JPG

Below is our un-related Blue Java Banana... not a palm, but stoked to have this one in our backyard oasis!  Should compliment the palms well.

IMG_20210316_184253.thumb.JPG.3a88777292e4ce4ae6c70317ca1648d8.JPG

Nice, it's gonna be cool to see that banana explode in growth during the summer. I'm growing a banana too, I think it's Namwah, but I'm not sure.

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tlow
2 minutes ago, Teegurr said:

Nice, it's gonna be cool to see that banana explode in growth during the summer. I'm growing a banana too, I think it's Namwah, but I'm not sure.

I'm not even sure given our zone if we'll get actual bananas (some folks say they do actually), but if nothing else they will grow and look super tropical during the warmer months.  We barely had any cold weather here (minus the vortex) so probably would've gotten some this year.  They grow to nearly 20' I'm told.. can't wait until we get some pups too so I can put'em around the yard.

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amh
13 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Filifera are pushing green spears in the Hill Country.  I also saw Sabals pushing what appeared to be new growth as far north as Lampasas TX 100 miles north of you in the Hill Country.  I also saw some large Filifera in Hamlilton TX, 150 miles north of you that appeared that they will probably recover (no crown collapse).   I took 281 all the way to Wichita Falls, and in Wichita Falls I saw a medium sized Filifera, maybe 10-12 feet tall, that did not appear to have a collapsed crown.  I was going down the road with my family in the car, so I did not have time to drive up to it an inspect it.  I only saw it from a distance. 

Not yet, The only non trachycarpus with any green are pool adjacent, everything else is still brown.

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NBTX11
1 minute ago, amh said:

Not yet, The only non trachycarpus with any green are pool adjacent, everything else is still brown.

I saw some personally yesterday. However those were not in your area either. I saw one in Canyon Lake pushing green

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amh
2 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

I saw some personally yesterday. However those were not in your area either. I saw one in Canyon Lake pushing green

Canyon lake stayed above zero.:violin:

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NBTX11
1 minute ago, amh said:

Canyon lake stayed above zero.:violin:

Ok yeah maybe. It was only 13 miles from New Braunfels so they probably saw about 5. 

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amh
1 minute ago, NBTX11 said:

Ok yeah maybe. It was only 13 miles from New Braunfels so they probably saw about 5. 

Still, most palms should survive, I saw a fillibusta with crown collapse, but everything else is intact.

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climate change virginia

I still cant believe how cold Texas got. 

Edited by climate change virginia

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tlow
3 minutes ago, climate change virginia said:

I still cant believe how cold Texas got. 

You and me both!  We just moved here last April from Northern Illinois so these winters are normal, nothing brutal at all but just not here... it was outrageously cold... Some of the fronds are almost entirely brown with the innermost parts to the petiole are green, rest is brown.. ugh.  Waiting to see some real damn growth but I realize it will take a few months to start feeling good mentally.

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PricklyPearSATC
4 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

I still cant believe how cold Texas got. 

Crazy....it can happen though...We've had similar freezes in the 80's.

Even more unbelievable was lack of electricity.  I  did not prepare for that.
My plants are all fairly hardy and almost all of them survived. 

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Will Simpson

I find that even Trachys love a lot of water in warm weather , and I used to water almost every day in the summer , and I never had any of my  Trachys rot , but they seemed to love it . Of course , all the Sabals love all the water they can  get in the summer . I also fertilize twice a year .

So I think people with damaged palms should water a lot in warm weather  , and fertilize a couple times during the growing season , and I think  their  palms will  snap back fast . 

Try an experiment  and water and fertilize some  and not others , and see if there is a difference . 

One thing that I have found about damaged palms is that my palms don't start to trunk again  until they  ave fully recovered the crown mass that they lost due to the cold  . The same happens  when some landscapers trim up green fronds on  Trachys . They don't start trunking again  until they have grown out a full crown of fronds . One exception to this is my Washy filibusta that will grow out a full crown in one season , and trunk up after losing all their fronds to cold . 

 

Here is my Washy last summer :

IMG_0003.thumb.JPG.c369e3b0f874efed779e6ff83d09232a.JPG

 

Here it is last winter after a low below 24F :

IMG_0005.thumb.JPG.fd4e426d5538e1d37577f04ed80fcee0.JPG

And here it is today . It will look like the first picture above at some point during the summer , and trunk higher too .

IMG_0006.thumb.JPG.0fbd30b78e4ebfda59462ceea7182234.JPG 

 

Edited by Will Simpson
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Will Simpson

I planted this Trachy at  a  Mexican Restaurant   about 8 years ago and it would be so much taller if hack landscapers wouldn't  whack off a bunch of fronds off of it most every spring . Thankfully they didn't cut off any fronds this spring , so it should start trunking up  immediately .

Here it is after a good whack .

original.thumb.jpg.adf4ed8492c0d15f9ff0a1090654b865.jpg

 

DSC04977.thumb.JPG.a85c052cf7de8abe4051b76683f97b28.JPG

 

The picture above  is before the whack job . It has now fully recovered all the fronds lost in the first picture , and if I fertilize it and water it , it should trunk up 1-2 feet this summer . There's still a chance the landscapers  will show up in the next few weeks , but I hope not . 

 

 

Edited by Will Simpson
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amh
On 3/18/2021 at 2:44 PM, PricklyPearSATC said:

Crazy....it can happen though...We've had similar freezes in the 80's.

Even more unbelievable was lack of electricity.  I  did not prepare for that.
My plants are all fairly hardy and almost all of them survived. 

I prepared for it, but found out the hard way that propane freezes and that you need gasoline for the generator.

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jimmyt

 

1 hour ago, amh said:

I prepared for it, but found out the hard way that propane freezes and that you need gasoline for the generator.

 Huh?  It takes some kinda cold for propane “freeze” up! 

Propane & Butane Turn to Gas - Liquid Propane Temperature
LPG - Propane Turns
from Liquid or Gas?
LPG (1atm)
Liquid
Vapour (Gas)
Propane
< -42°C or
< -43.6ºF
≥ -42°C or
 -43.6ºF
Butane
< -0.4°C or 
< 31.28ºF
≥ -0.4°C or
1 hour ago, amh said:

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amh
9 minutes ago, jimmyt said:

 

 Huh?  It takes some kinda cold for propane “freeze” up! 

Propane & Butane Turn to Gas - Liquid Propane Temperature
LPG - Propane Turns
from Liquid or Gas?
LPG (1atm)
Liquid
Vapour (Gas)
Propane
< -42°C or
< -43.6ºF
≥ -42°C or
 -43.6ºF
Butane
< -0.4°C or 
< 31.28ºF
≥ -0.4°C or

I occurs in the regulator or carburetor, the operations manuals include the information, but no one ever reads that part, including the people who sell and install the product.

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PDXPalm

Any thoughts on when the Windmills will show any survival? All in our area are just brown. I have one small one growing but all large ones brown. 

Should I trim the dead fronds? 

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tlow
5 minutes ago, PDXPalm said:

Any thoughts on when the Windmills will show any survival? All in our area are just brown. I have one small one growing but all large ones brown. 

Should I trim the dead fronds? 

Where are you located?  I had quite a bit of browning and dying on the fronds, but all but one (RIP Trachy) are pushing spears and repushing the fronds they already were before the storm.. the top part that was exposed is dead, white, but what was in the trunk is green and coming up.  I'm in the DFW area for reference.

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