Phoenix Acaulis

[EastCanadaTropicals]

I heard it was native to northern india, in the piedmont of the Himalayas. Does this palm have potential to be one of the hardest Phoenix, especially with it's underground trunk?

[climate change virginia]

from what ive read its not hardier than any other phoenix spp

[ahosey01]

5 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

I heard it was native to northern india, in the piedmont of the Himalayas. Does this palm have potential to be one of the hardest Phoenix, especially with it's underground trunk?

I suppose this is possible.  I don't know that there's a ton of info on them, because they're not super common in the trade.

I am going to pick up a five gallon one I already paid for with two growth points in about a month.  Gonna stick it in a cold sink in my backyard.  Will definitely hit 21-23 a few times a year.  Will also probably hit 75-80 in the middle of the same day.  I'll let you know in a year how it fairs.  My guess is that it's a solid zone 9A palm for dry climates like Cali & AZ.  Probably a solid 9b palm for wet climates like Florida & Texas.  Could certainly be wrong, though.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

20 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

I heard it was native to northern india, in the piedmont of the Himalayas. Does this palm have potential to be one of the hardiest Phoenix, especially with it's underground trunk?

 

[climate change virginia]

23 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

I heard it was native to northern india, in the piedmont of the Himalayas. Does this palm have potential to be one of the hardest Phoenix, especially with it's underground trunk?

probably not indian tall coconuts are native to that area but they couldn't  survive 30F without damage

[Arecaceus]

They have a huge range of habitats. Some from low altitudes and some from pretty high ones. I think it depends on the strain of DNA and how they were grown in the early stages. Same applies to Phoenix reclinata. They are usually rather subtropical but also appear in very high mountain ranges.

[Meangreen94z]

I asked this question before and was told no they are not as hardy as canariensis or theophrastii(in a desert climate). I have  a friend locally who has tried them and they are hardy to mid teens, from his experience.

[Las Palmas Norte]

Anyone have a picture of one?

[Jubaea_James760]

17 hours ago, Las Palmas Norte said:

Anyone have a picture of one?

Here's mine.

[Fusca]

2 hours ago, Jubaea_James760 said:

Here's mine.

Looks good James!  I'm sure the spines are wicked but what about the fronds?  They don't look as stiff and spiky as theophrasti but I'm sure you still need to handle with care.

[Las Palmas Norte]

Wonderin' if these sucker like dactylifera or are solitary? Looks real nice @Jubaea_James760First year in?

Edited October 3, 2022 by Las Palmas Norte

[Jubaea_James760]

@Fusca thanks Jon! Spines are super wicked! I de-thorned it a bit, you may be able to see in photo a bit. I kepted stabbing myself while pruning. The spines don't go in one direction like most other Phoenix palms they go in different directions 

The leaflets are soft, but spines are like theophrastii. It's like a robellini x theophrastii, really nice palm 👍

[Jubaea_James760]

@Las Palmas Norte thanks! 2nd year in the ground, planted from a 5 gallon. It grew pretty fast, its 7 ft. tall to the top of the leaflets. It flower for me last year. No suckering, yet?? I'm wondering the same if they sucker..

[ZPalms]

Is your area a dry winter?

[Jubaea_James760]

Winter is when I get majority of my rain for the year.

[ZPalms]

4 hours ago, Jubaea_James760 said:

Winter is when I get majority of my rain for the year.

I'd like to try and zone push a phoenix species but idk what would fit best for me, would this be a contender for wet cold hardiness if mould planted?

[Foxpalms]

1 hour ago, ZPalms said:

I'd like to try and zone push a phoenix species but idk what would fit best for me, would this be a contender for wet cold hardiness if mould planted?

Phoenix theophrasti are very hardy but they are from a fairly dry climate.  You might have to create a microclimate,  a pond, placing it near the house, concrete, mulch ect to try and push the spot you want to grow it in up to a 8b and give it good drainage to keep the soil dry. I would use sand, vermiculite and compost maybe some gravel to fill a hole that one is planted in. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Foxpalms

[ZPalms]

5 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

Phoenix theophrasti are very hardy but they are from a fairly dry climate.  You might have to create a microclimate,  a pond, placing it near the house, concrete, mulch ect to try and push the spot you want to grow it in up to a 8b and give it good drainage to keep the soil dry.

We have one phoenix dactylifera in town at a palm nursery mould planted, I have a above ground swimming pool would that help as a microclimate?

[Foxpalms]

11 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

We have one phoenix dactylifera in town at a palm nursery mould planted, I have a above ground swimming pool would that help as a microclimate?

Definitely the palms I have planted near water  don't go below freezing most years.  The heat the water stores is slowly released at night making the surrounding area slightly warmer on cold nights. Water has some of the best heat capacity at 4,184 Joules.  Evergreen tree canopy helps but most phoenix species like full sun saying that though my CIDP hardly gets any sun and grows fine. Are you're freezes ones that have days that don't go above freezing or just radiational freezes where it's above freezing in the day? If you have a bad freeze forecasted for a night you could probably even heat the pool during the day so it relseases even more heat at night. Above ground wouldn't be as effective as inground because heat rises but it would still work.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Foxpalms

[ZPalms]

7 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

Definitely the palms I have planted near water  don't go below freezing most years.  The heat the water stores is slowly released at night making the surrounding area slightly warmer on cold nights. Water has some of the best heat capacity at 4,184 Joules.  Evergreen tree canopy helps but most phoenix species like full sun saying that though my CIDP hardly gets any sun and grows fine. Are you're freezes ones that have days that don't go above freezing or just radiational freezes where it's above freezing in the day? If you have a bad freeze forecasted for a night you could probably even heat the pool during the day so it relseases even more heat at night. Above ground wouldn't be as effective as inground because heat rises but it would still work.

It only freezes at night here, It never stays below freezing in the day time unless a storm is projected to keep the chill around all day or ice or something, I do notice at night time in the winter the pool will have a mist rising from the water is that the heat releasing?

[Foxpalms]

8 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

It only freezes at night here, It never stays below freezing in the day time unless a storm is projected to keep the chill around all day or ice or something, I do notice at night time in the winter the pool will have a mist rising from the water is that the heat releasing?

Yes, as the warmer moist air from the pool rises into the cooler air it forms a mist (the heat being released condensing) . As you probably know being near to the ocean and lakes is always  warmer during freezes than being inland, so a pool kind of acts like a small version of that.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Foxpalms

[ZPalms]

2 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

Yes, as the warmer moist air from the pool rises into the cooler air it forms a mist (the heat being released). As you probably know being near to the ocean and lakes is always  warmer during freezes than being inland, so a pool kind of acts like a small version of that.

I'll consider getting a phoenix dactylifera, could be fun to try, I just gotta think of where to put it so it doesn't get in the way if they successfully take off. Thanks! 😁

[Foxpalms]

4 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

I'll consider getting a phoenix dactylifera, could be fun to try, I just gotta think of where to put it so it doesn't get in the way if they successfully take off. Thanks! 😁

With dactylifera I would make sure it's got lots of sand and very good drainage in the hole the main root ball is planted in. I'd go with the medjool variety seems to take wet better than the other ones.  Supposedly also hardier.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Foxpalms

[ZPalms]

9 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

With dactylifera I would make sure it's got lots of sand and very good drainage in the hole the main root ball is planted in. I'd go with the medjool variety seems to take wet better than the other ones.  Supposedly also hardier.

Luckily my yard is nothing but sand so I have to always add organics to my palms that aren't fan of sand so drainage is pretty good everywhere as long as Im mixing in the sand but water barely has trouble draining away. I just gotta make sure my mix isn't muddy. Do you think 1 bag of tree and shrub soil and sand mixed in would be good?

[Foxpalms]

2 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

Luckily my yard is nothing but sand so I have to always add organics to my palms that aren't fan of sand so drainage is pretty good everywhere as long as Im mixing in the sand but water barely has trouble draining away. I just gotta make sure my mix isn't muddy. Do you think 1 bag of tree and shrub soil and sand mixed in would be good?

That should be good, as long as phoenix dactylifera don't have wet cold soil they should be fine.  Obviously the soil needs to hold some amount of moisture.

[ZPalms]

2 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

That should be good, as long as phoenix dactylifera don't have wet cold soil they should be fine.  Obviously the soil needs to hold some amount of moisture.

Awesome! I look forward to giving it a try, I have a lucky medjool seed that slipped into pitted dates package so I may give that one a try first since its the only one I have on hand 😋

[Foxpalms]

9 minutes ago, ZPalms said:

Awesome! I look forward to giving it a try, I have a lucky medjool seed that slipped into pitted dates package so I may give that one a try first since its the only one I have on hand 😋

They take a while to grow from seed to a trunking size but saying that you're summers are much hotter and longer than here so it might be much quicker.  They also less hardy when small but definitely still worth experimenting with.

[ZPalms]

5 minutes ago, Foxpalms said:

They take a while to grow from seed to a trunking size but saying that you're summers are much hotter and longer than here so it might be much quicker.  They also less hardy when small but definitely still worth experimenting with.

the one down the road seems to be doing very good so maybe medjool is a sign for me to try but it also has the road and urban heat to help, the heat be crazy in the summer but also the humidity. If I start now I can get a head start before spring 🥳

[Jubaea_James760]

On 10/4/2022 at 4:22 PM, ZPalms said:

I'd like to try and zone push a phoenix species but idk what would fit best for me, would this be a contender for wet cold hardiness if mould planted?

@ZPalms, i honestly couldn't say right now, not enough data on these. I think canariensis & dactylifera are good choices though.  

Goodluck with the Medjool! 👍