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Collectorpalms

How the Great Texas Freeze of 2021 Will Effect Your Gardening?

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Collectorpalms

This is a topic that has me most interested. It may take months or a year before the impact is known from the Coldest Temperatures Since 1989 for millions of gardeners. Some gardeners broke 100 year old records and others just miles away missed this event for the most part. Statistically this could happen again in the next 3-5 years. 

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amh

I'm a warm 8A gardener who generally cultivates plants for 8A/7b to be safe, but after this winter, I'll be hesitant to grow anything that isn't good to zone 7A.

I also start most plants from seed, so I only loose up to a few hundred dollars, as apposed to 10s of thousands.

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Xenon

Everything in the backyard is dead or frozen to the ground except for a water oak, Carolina jessamine, and maaaybe a pair of Livistona chinensis. Even the noxious oxalis and African petunias that I've cursed for years are dead LOL 

I'm restarting my quest to fruit a jackfruit (unprotected), got past 3 winters on the last run :P. Had a good chance of flowering this year if not for last week. Bring on the 9b/10a plants and zone denial !!!

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AnTonY

Not a home owner (yet), so I don't have a garden of my own.

That being said, this event has driven me to do more research on the native landscapes and gardens of the coastal SE US. This is great for Houston and other areas of coastal Texas, because it would be sufficiently cold hardy, while also yielding many "exotic" options from the perspective of inhabitants (the MS River forms a western barrier for many SE US plants).

For example, it would be interesting to see the addition of more coonties (zamia integrifolia) and slash pine (pinus elliottii) into landscaping across the Houston and coastal Texas region.

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amh
8 minutes ago, AnTonY said:

Not a home owner (yet), so I don't have a garden of my own.

That being said, this event has driven me to do more research on the native landscapes and gardens of the coastal SE US. This is great for Houston and other areas of coastal Texas, because it would be sufficiently cold hardy, while also yielding many "exotic" options from the perspective of inhabitants (the MS River forms a western barrier for many SE US plants).

For example, it would be interesting to see the addition of more coonties (zamia integrifolia) and slash pine (pinus elliottii) into landscaping across the Houston and coastal Texas region.

I had the intention of mass planting coonties under my big oaks, but that may change; I'll have to see if the neighborhood sagos have survived

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Desert DAC
2 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

This is a topic that has me most interested. It may take months or a year before the impact is known from the Coldest Temperatures Since 1989 for millions of gardeners. Some gardeners broke 100 year old records and others just miles away missed this event for the most part. Statistically this could happen again in the next 3-5 years. 

A similar even could happen that soon, though for many areas it appears to be more of a generational or 20 year freeze, not a 3-5 year one. Many zone pushers aren't even prepared for the 3-5 year events, some I know consider an average winter a colder winter. Since the 1980's it looks like central and eastern swaths of Texas have had fewer 3-5 year events, more like every decade or a bit less.  Hopefully people document their actual zone or climate, as well as which plants did fine, were damaged, or just didn't make it...then share and apply that.

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Collectorpalms
4 minutes ago, Desert DAC said:

A similar even could happen that soon, though for many areas it appears to be more of a generational or 20 year freeze, not a 3-5 year one. Many zone pushers aren't even prepared for the 3-5 year events, some I know consider an average winter a colder winter. Since the 1980's it looks like central and eastern swaths of Texas have had fewer 3-5 year events, more like every decade or a bit less.  Hopefully people document their actual zone or climate, as well as which plants did fine, were damaged, or just didn't make it...then share and apply that.

In Texas you have 1885, 1889 The Valentines Freezes.  And now the 2021 Freeze is another snowy Valentine time of year freeze.

1949, 1951 Ice Drought years.end of Jan/feb 1.

1983, 1989 Christmas Freezes. Just as a few examples that rivaled this event in parts of the state.

Edited by Collectorpalms
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Desert DAC
14 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

In Texas you have 1885, 1889 The Valentines Freezes.  And now the 2021 Freeze is another snowy Valentine time of year freeze.

1949, 1951 Ice Drought years.end of Jan/feb 1.

1983, 1989 Christmas Freezes. Just as a few examples that rivaled this event in parts of the state.

Thanks for those events! A climatologist gave me some info for Austin including duration of certain temperatures, while someone I correspond with online gave me additional information including the SE. Very interesting though I'm sheltered from extremes by two mountain ranges, elevation provides many hard and light freezes to harden off plants, and there's no Gulf air to keep things too soft in SW New Mexico.

This event looks like a long-overdue 20 year or generational freeze, depending on how one defines it. Except coming this late, which no previous events have. Especially with spring growth starting, at least my guess. Not to mention in Austin at least, 2/2021 was the longest duration below 32F ever, by 4 to 15 hours.

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Desert DAC
2 hours ago, amh said:

I'm a warm 8A gardener who generally cultivates plants for 8A/7b to be safe, but after this winter, I'll be hesitant to grow anything that isn't good to zone 7A.

I also start most plants from seed, so I only loose up to a few hundred dollars, as apposed to 10s of thousands.

The USDA cold hardiness zones are now based on climate with 30 year averages, not shorter periods or just weather. Most plant ratings by reliable sources seem to account all but the more extreme cold or mild winters, so a range. This may have been among the most extreme freeze events since it was so lasting and occurred so late. As a former landscape architect who designs taking long-term into account, one cannot plan for losing even a few tougher natives in the worst winters. 

While we're in different parts of zone 8A, there's little need to be so concerned with planting a full zone colder - if a plant is rated correctly.  Zone 7A includes cold spots in the Albuquerque valley or Oklahoma City and Tulsa. Just consult good info and helpful people, so you don't miss out. Best of luck as spring starts!

Edited by Desert DAC
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Keys6505

Only difference for me is I'm going to make sure I have a yard generator by next winter.  I think my protection was pretty solid, I was just missing the heat source because of the outages.  If I have to spend a weekend wrapping everything every 5 years I'll be fine with it.

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Ivanos1982

I'm rethinking how I'm doing my garden. Since I moved here six years ago I planted white birds of paradise, queens, bananas, monsteras, philodendrons and all kinds of tropicals for the zone thinking they would grow with no problem. But with this event I'm going to consider my area a zone 8 now. I live in Westchase/Alief area of Houston. So it's just gonna be hardy bananas, maybe I will try filiferas (if I can find any) and elephant ears, etc. I'm not gonna push it anymore with zone 9 stuff. I was able to save my giant birds of paradise by ripping them from the ground and bringing them in. Now they are planted out again but man those were large and heavy. I'm not doing that again. I realize next time I'm just gonna let them go. I also cut a piece of my monstera and put it in water but it is rottening... not really rooting. So I'm gonna stop with the tropical obsession until I can save enough money and move to south Florida. Real estate is too hot right now, so it's no good for me to go and buy. As far as palms, if my queens make it I think I'm gonna take them out anyway, they are small and I think they will have a lot of damage since I recored 14 degrees as the lowest temp in my backyard. Even if they make it they will probably not look very good. I might plant a ravenea rivularis just for show, knowing it will melt in another freeze, but they are cheap so whatever.

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Sean.N.GulfBreeze
8 minutes ago, Ivanos1982 said:

I'm rethinking how I'm doing my garden. Since I moved here six years ago I planted white birds of paradise, queens, bananas, monsteras, philodendrons and all kinds of tropicals for the zone thinking they would grow with no problem. But with this event I'm going to consider my area a zone 8 now. I live in Westchase/Alief area of Houston. So it's just gonna be hardy bananas, maybe I will try filiferas (if I can find any) and elephant ears, etc. I'm not gonna push it anymore with zone 9 stuff. I was able to save my giant birds of paradise by ripping them from the ground and bringing them in. Now they are planted out again but man those were large and heavy. I'm not doing that again. I realize next time I'm just gonna let them go. I also cut a piece of my monstera and put it in water but it is rottening... not really rooting. So I'm gonna stop with the tropical obsession until I can save enough money and move to south Florida. Real estate is too hot right now, so it's no good for me to go and buy. As far as palms, if my queens make it I think I'm gonna take them out anyway, they are small and I think they will have a lot of damage since I recored 14 degrees as the lowest temp in my backyard. Even if they make it they will probably not look very good. I might plant a ravenea rivularis just for show, knowing it will melt in another freeze, but they are cheap so whatever.

If your queens live, why would you rip them out anyways?  They grow quickly, and if they recover, they will be beautiful before you know it.  No sense in taking them out if they survived a 100 year freeze.  

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Ivanos1982
Just now, Sean.N.GulfBreeze said:

If your queens live, why would you rip them out anyways?  They grow quickly, and if they recover, they will be beautiful before you know it.  No sense in taking them out if they survived a 100 year freeze.  

because they were leaking and they smell kind of like rottening... I don't think they will be very healthy. They may die slow long deaths. I've seen that happen to queens around here. There was one that lasted until September last year and it was barely alive after the 2018 frost. It depends how healthy mines are.

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Swolte

- 1 Improve palm protection and recovery methods. I strife to be a low-maintenance gardener but I am willing to make some exception for events that generally occur once every decade or less. I already made some real stupid mistakes this round that I will not repeat again. 
- 2 No more zone pushers. 8b is 8b. The marginal palms I did have, like some Livistona, look like crap despite having been protected.
- 3 Place palms that can survive a zone lower than I am in foundational parts of the garden. Don't get too attached to the rest. 
- 4 Hunt for those cold resistant varieties and/or hybrids of palm species (I am sure a new bunch will come out in a few years). 
- 5 Improve microclimate. Grow evergreen trees and shrubs around garden to avoid Windchill, for example.

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Collectorpalms
9 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

In Texas you have 1885, 1889 The Valentines Freezes.  And now the 2021 Freeze is another snowy Valentine time of year freeze.

1949, 1951 Ice Drought years.end of Jan/feb 1.

1983, 1989 Christmas Freezes. Just as a few examples that rivaled this event in parts of the state.

Correction: 1895/1899 not 1885/1889

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Collectorpalms
10 hours ago, amh said:

I had the intention of mass planting coonties under my big oaks, but that may change; I'll have to see if the neighborhood sagos have survived

I have two coonties clumps that I Gave a buzz cut to, placed a couple towels and frost cloth over, then a box over. Then it snowed On box. They look good after unearthing several days later. Otherwise their leaves toast below 20s. They are keepers.

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amh
12 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

I have two coonties clumps that I Gave a buzz cut to, placed a couple towels and frost cloth over, then a box over. Then it snowed On box. They look good after unearthing several days later. Otherwise their leaves toast below 20s. They are keepers.

Good to know. I think I might have a hardier strain because my potted specimens have never defoliated, even into the lower teens.

I bought the seed from a source in Tallahassee.

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amh
20 hours ago, Desert DAC said:

The USDA cold hardiness zones are now based on climate with 30 year averages, not shorter periods or just weather. Most plant ratings by reliable sources seem to account all but the more extreme cold or mild winters, so a range. This may have been among the most extreme freeze events since it was so lasting and occurred so late. As a former landscape architect who designs taking long-term into account, one cannot plan for losing even a few tougher natives in the worst winters. 

While we're in different parts of zone 8A, there's little need to be so concerned with planting a full zone colder - if a plant is rated correctly.  Zone 7A includes cold spots in the Albuquerque valley or Oklahoma City and Tulsa. Just consult good info and helpful people, so you don't miss out. Best of luck as spring starts!

I basically agree, but over the past 10 years, I've noticed a local cooling.

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Collectorpalms

First thing first, I haven’t decided anything but, irrigation needs to be addressed. I let everything grow with natural rainfall due to our criminal city water.

I will need a reverse osmosis system, fertilizer injector etc.. to Make my yard less work and do better tropicals and annuals, that painstakingly take a long time to hand water with rainwater.

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Allen
28 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

First thing first, I haven’t decided anything but, irrigation needs to be addressed. I let everything grow with natural rainfall due to our criminal city water.

I will need a reverse osmosis system, fertilizer injector etc.. to Make my yard less work and do better tropicals and annuals, that painstakingly take a long time to hand water with rainwater.

Would a well work?  I have a well and a drip system controlled on my smart phone.  A drip system is easy and cheap.  I don't think you can reverse osmosis that amount of water.  fertilizer injectors are too wacky to trust.  I have about 200 drippers on my system that are about 1 gallon/hour so about 200 gallons/hour.  

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Chad king NC

I didn't have a big freeze this year, but I definitely learned from the polar vortex of 2014.  Our temps ended up being much lower than forcasted and I lost all of my trunking palms.  All of my new palms are planted in a mound and have better drainage.  I also bought enought frost cloths and heat cables to protect each palm.  Which helped out just 4 years later when we had our 100 year freeze.

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amh
17 minutes ago, Allen said:

Would a well work?  I have a well and a drip system controlled on my smart phone.  A drip system is easy and cheap.  I don't think you can reverse osmosis that amount of water.  fertilizer injectors are too wacky to trust.  I have about 200 drippers on my system that are about 1 gallon/hour so about 200 gallons/hour.  

No, because Texas will not allow you to access the water you own if you are under a certain acreage.

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necturus

I'm done with the Phoenix genus. Not worth growing something that desperately wants to impale me and may defoliate or die in our worst freezes. And I rather like mature P. sylvestris...

I will go hardier and make sure the backbone of the landscape is JxB, Butias, Sabals, etc. 

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Austinpalm

Well..... sorry to rain on everyone's well intentioned and thoughtful parade of ideas how to better deal with the next arctic intrusion of Texas gardens but I did  not move here to plant only Butias, Sabals and Washy's.  I'm going to continue to swing for the fence.  :36_14_15[1]:The longest period between now and the next polar vortex begins NOW.  Now to find some coconut palms and foxy ladies.  :drool:

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Xenon
13 minutes ago, Austinpalm said:

 The longest period between now and the next polar vortex begins NOW.  Now to find some coconut palms and foxy ladies.  :drool:

Any updates on the island, Clay? Hope it's not a total loss. 

As far as planting, I think you should be little more ambitious :winkie: . Areca vestiara, Carpoxylon, Satakentia, you get the idea :) 

There was a guy (Nelson Mata) in the IPS FB group with specimen quality Carpoxylon, Attalea, Copernicia, Pseudophoenix etc in McAllen; can't imagine his garden is looking too great right now. 

Edited by Xenon

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Austinpalm
11 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Any updates on the island, Clay? Hope it's not a total loss. 

As far as planting, I think you should be little more ambitious :winkie: . Areca vestiara, Carpoxylon, Satakentia, you get the idea :) 

Great minds think alike! :D

11 minutes ago, Xenon said:

There was a guy (Nelson Mata) in the IPS FB group with specimen quality Carpoxylon, Attalea, Copernicia, Pseudophoenix etc in McAllen; can't imagine his garden is looking too great right now. 

I really hope he was able to utilize some sort of protection.  I was doing work in north McAllen earlier this week. Was seeing robustas with burn and many upset queen palms.

Still on the fence about how coconuts, veitchia's, and foxtails are going to do.  Still seeing a lot of green petioles on many, but the damage just keeps spreading. I think that large and well sited medium sized royals will be ok.  All others will possibly die.

All pygmy, silver, canary island, and dactylifera dates along with queens and bismarckia are good.

Will make another sweep this week and take photos.

 

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Keys6505
3 hours ago, Austinpalm said:

Well..... sorry to rain on everyone's well intentioned and thoughtful parade of ideas how to better deal with the next arctic intrusion of Texas gardens but I did  not move here to plant only Butias, Sabals and Washy's.  I'm going to continue to swing for the fence.  :36_14_15[1]:The longest period between now and the next polar vortex begins NOW.  Now to find some coconut palms and foxy ladies.  :drool:

Couldn't have said it any better.  Yesterday, as I was staring at my hay-colored palm collection in my yard, I thought that maybe I'm looking at this wrong.  Instead of finding more exotic palms that *might* make it through the next freeze even with protection, I should maybe look for palms that will *definitely* live if I dig it up like a banana and store it in the garage for a few days before planting back out.  I know size will become an issue at some point but for smaller sized palms there may be some that fit the bill.  Either way, I'm definitely not done trying.

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amh
10 hours ago, Austinpalm said:

Well..... sorry to rain on everyone's well intentioned and thoughtful parade of ideas how to better deal with the next arctic intrusion of Texas gardens but I did  not move here to plant only Butias, Sabals and Washy's.  I'm going to continue to swing for the fence.  :36_14_15[1]:The longest period between now and the next polar vortex begins NOW.  Now to find some coconut palms and foxy ladies.  :drool:

Another 30 some years of growth before the next big bad one.

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Collectorpalms

After seeing no growth on my washingtonia that lean filifera. I do not think I’ll chance another Washingtonia again unless I can actually collect the seed myself. I have fat  truncked Washingtonia but they got tall and started to be thinner at the top. I think if they were shorter they might have had a better chance for they are at least 25 ft tall and were in the ice, snow. Ice again and fully wind exposed to 5F. My Sabal Mexicana and Palmetto at same height look like they will have a good chance. 
A couple of my 10FT filifera are looking like they may pull out of this. 
 

Edited by Collectorpalms
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jwitt

Back to the original question of how this cold will affect future gardening. This is my personal reward from after the 2011 arctic event. Seed grown Cleburne, TX offspring. Comes with self protecting winter coat.

 

20210305_142323_1.jpg

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PricklyPearSATC

With regards to palms, my only zone pusher is livistona chinesis, which I planted as a temporary filler until my sabal minors grew. My med fan palms are victims of my own culture. 

I sure have alot of sandankwa viburnums though.....geeze.....I hope they make it.  We will see.   I never gave them much thought until this.

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Reyes Vargas
On 3/2/2021 at 3:47 PM, Austinpalm said:

Well..... sorry to rain on everyone's well intentioned and thoughtful parade of ideas how to better deal with the next arctic intrusion of Texas gardens but I did  not move here to plant only Butias, Sabals and Washy's.  I'm going to continue to swing for the fence.  :36_14_15[1]:The longest period between now and the next polar vortex begins NOW.  Now to find some coconut palms and foxy ladies.  :drool:

I'm with you.  I'm already looking for some coconut palms to plant.  Can you imagine how tall they could be in 30 years time.  

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PricklyPearSATC
On 2/25/2021 at 2:51 PM, amh said:

I had the intention of mass planting coonties under my big oaks, but that may change; I'll have to see if the neighborhood sagos have survived

My Florida Zamia don't look very good right now.  However, I bought them mail order years ago and they were real small.  They have barely grown.  Just a frond here and there.  Now it's a bronze frond here and there.

I think availability is an issue.  I'm sure they're hardy.  They are native to north Florida, so can't quite be compared to a sago palm. 

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amh
1 hour ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

My Florida Zamia don't look very good right now.  However, I bought them mail order years ago and they were real small.  They have barely grown.  Just a frond here and there.  Now it's a bronze frond here and there.

I think availability is an issue.  I'm sure they're hardy.  They are native to north Florida, so can't quite be compared to a sago palm. 

I must have some special cultivar; mine seem to be hardier and grow faster than everyone else's. When they reach reproductive age, I'll have to send out seeds.

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Collectorpalms
2 hours ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

My Florida Zamia don't look very good right now.  However, I bought them mail order years ago and they were real small.  They have barely grown.  Just a frond here and there.  Now it's a bronze frond here and there.

I think availability is an issue.  I'm sure they're hardy.  They are native to north Florida, so can't quite be compared to a sago palm. 

Try getting a 3 or 1 gallon. Seedlings didn’t do much for me, but I found nice sized plants a decade ago and they have done well. They haven’t grown much, but do produce cones.
I recall at one time a hardier or larger form available. I do not mind a smaller cycad, it has its place. Sagos can eventually get too big. 

Edited by Collectorpalms
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TonyDFW


With our continued warm temps many plants that were green in the first week after the freeze are now  turning brown in Dallas. Live oaks, grass and everything in between. The non brown plants really stand out in the current landscape. Still too early to tell what will live. Growth has really manifested. 
 

E012DA12-F89C-4BED-A702-B1336DF76200.jpeg

53B90EF8-994F-4A9A-8D9A-6CBB291D4B7B.jpeg

54EB67F1-9F7E-4B5E-9FDE-1E4250D65E34.jpeg

A5A6338E-7A5F-4CC0-A709-F7575C16BF08.jpeg

565DBB23-CC68-4D00-81C6-C15A330DC252.jpeg

1AF47C39-F473-4A86-A77D-9D5313614A98.jpeg

B8B41BAA-B086-480B-AADC-0E8885A860D7.jpeg

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Fusca
3 hours ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

my only zone pusher is livistona chinesis

Linda, you should be fine with Livistona chinensis in 8b.  They're not very leaf hardy showing damage in the low to mid 20's but they're incredibly bud hardy.  I don't know if you saw this photo in another thread, but my little guy is still alive unprotected.  It's already pushing new growth.  It won't look good again for a while but it's still going.  What part of the city are you in?  I'm on the far west side.

rsz_L.chinensis.thumb.jpg.c5499692af23153446ba97a246927aa6.jpg

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PricklyPearSATC
59 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Linda, you should be fine with Livistona chinensis in 8b.  They're not very leaf hardy showing damage in the low to mid 20's but they're incredibly bud hardy.  I don't know if you saw this photo in another thread, but my little guy is still alive unprotected.  It's already pushing new growth.  It won't look good again for a while but it's still going.  What part of the city are you in?  I'm on the far west side.

rsz_L.chinensis.thumb.jpg.c5499692af23153446ba97a246927aa6.jpg

NW side.  The spear is stuck on mine.  It's a decent size palm.  It was growing two spears.  One had just pushed out and had not started unfurling.  The other has about 9 inches of tip out.  No growth since the freeze.  I thought it was gonna be OK, but the petiole in the older spear is still in the bud and is bending. The petiole is waxy and thick, but it bent within the bud and it won't pull.  I'm afraid it will break.    The other spear is just drying out on top. 

Edited by PricklyPearSATC
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RJ
On 3/5/2021 at 8:09 PM, TonyDFW said:


With our continued warm temps many plants that were green in the first week after the freeze are now  turning brown in Dallas. Live oaks, grass and everything in between. The non brown plants really stand out in the current landscape. Still too early to tell what will live. Growth has really manifested. 
 

 

53B90EF8-994F-4A9A-8D9A-6CBB291D4B7B.jpeg

 

 

 

 

 

What are the plants in the background? Maybe 3ft of "trunk" Still green :)

Edited by RJ

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