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2021 Freeze Damage - Texas and the Southern US

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TylerA
On 2/28/2021 at 7:28 AM, kinzyjr said:

Does the peroxide still fizz up profusely when you pour it in, or is it a bit more stable with just light bubbles?

I'd leave the dead fronds until you see if the plant lives.  If it does, probably late March/early April is a good time.  If not, you don't have to worry about trimming the palm, you can just remove the whole thing.

Yes, some still do. I attached some photos. Picture one shows some of the stems of the fronds where they have something black growing on them

 

Picture 2 is one where the fronds that were growing in pulled right out (I believe that means it’s dead)

 

picture 3 shows some black almost mold that’s crowing on some of the fronds that are bunched tightly together... been putting hydrogen peroxide on for over a week every other day, wondering if there is anything else I should be doing

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kinzyjr
1 hour ago, TylerA said:

Yes, some still do. I attached some photos. Picture one shows some of the stems of the fronds where they have something black growing on them

Picture 2 is one where the fronds that were growing in pulled right out (I believe that means it’s dead)

picture 3 shows some black almost mold that’s crowing on some of the fronds that are bunched tightly together... been putting hydrogen peroxide on for over a week every other day, wondering if there is anything else I should be doing

It does look pretty dead.  Since it isn't that expensive, I'd keep giving it a douse or maybe perform a little surgery to see if there is any living tissue in the crown.

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TylerA

I will keep giving it some, I have 7 total palms, this is the only one where the emerging fronds have just pulled out, so I’m hopeful that the other 6 still have some life in them and I keep treating them, so I’ll just keep giving that one doses every other day too.

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smatofu
14 hours ago, TylerA said:

I will keep giving it some, I have 7 total palms, this is the only one where the emerging fronds have just pulled out, so I’m hopeful that the other 6 still have some life in them and I keep treating them, so I’ll just keep giving that one doses every other day too.

TylerA, I am in the DFW area. I tried Mexican Fan Palms for a few years long time ago and I gave up! They grow fast and they are pretty, but DFW winters kill them easily. Lots of work, hope, and always  disappointment at the end.

 

Now, I have beautiful Windmills, Chinese Fan Palm, and Texas Sabal. Sabal went through the freeze undamaged. 

Windmills and Chinese Fan Palm have all fronds dead. 

The race has started! What will be faster: rot, or growth and pushing the rot out? 

I sprayed my palms with copper and poured some hydrogen peroxide.

We have a sunny and warm weather so there is hope!

S.

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smatofu

Take a permanent marker. MAKE A HORIZONTAL LINE where spear emerges from the trunk. The line should be across the spear and some old frond stems. 

If you see the spear moves up relative to old fronds, your palm is ALIVE!

It may take few more weeks of warm weather. 

 

 

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TylerA

Yeah, I’m in Houston so our winters aren’t as harsh typically, but this one obviously was unprecedented. I have 2 sabals, 4 Mexican fan palms, and 1 windmill. The two sabals and windmill look like they will make it, however the 4 fan palms are pretty rough, just hoping I can rehab most of them and get lucky. 

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GottmitAlex

Three different schools of thought.  1.- To cut 2.- not to cut (Both with Fungicide). 3.- Cut, but with Peroxide.

All well meaning and personally, I employ all three ways of approach. 

 

 

 

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smatofu
6 hours ago, GottmitAlex said:

Three different schools of thought.  1.- To cut 2.- not to cut (Both with Fungicide). 3.- Cut, but with Peroxide.

All well meaning and personally, I employ all three ways of approach. 

 

 

Thank you Alex!

 

All good advices in the videos! I would start from the least intrusive method and progress to more drastic stuff. 1st - drenching with fungicide/bactericide; the last - trunk cuts. 

Again, mark the spear with a line. If it moves up in the next few weeks, your palm is alive so you can leave it alone.  

 

  

 

Edited by smatofu

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smatofu

I see 1/4 in. growth from stems around spear of my largest/healthier palm. Ok, so conditions for growth are good (sun and warm), now we have to wait for spears to start growing.

 

Edited by smatofu

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TylerA

I trimmed back all the dead fronds that were completely brown and dead, however the spears that were emerging won’t pull out, I’m guessing that’s a good thing? I poured copper fungicide in around them, hoping that helps. My main concern is the black mold/powdery substance on these new fronds (pictured below), I’m trying to tug them out the best I can but they are not budging... assuming the tree is alive it will push these out on their own and I can cut them back when they are out and it’s safer? Curious how I should handle those given they are clearly not well and may get the rest of the tree worse. I have pulled as hard as I can to remove them with no luck, any other strategies? Or just leave them?

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smatofu
38 minutes ago, TylerA said:

I trimmed back all the dead fronds that were completely brown and dead, however the spears that were emerging won’t pull out, I’m guessing that’s a good thing? I poured copper fungicide in around them, hoping that helps. My main concern is the black mold/powdery substance on these new fronds (pictured below), I’m trying to tug them out the best I can but they are not budging... assuming the tree is alive it will push these out on their own and I can cut them back when they are out and it’s safer? Curious how I should handle those given they are clearly not well and may get the rest of the tree worse. I have pulled as hard as I can to remove them with no luck, any other strategies? Or just leave them?

497062B8-0BD0-46F7-AB67-21B7A8FB5571.jpeg

 

In my opinion, I would make a marker line so I could see if the spear is growing and I would leave it. 

If you don't see growth in 2-4 weeks and you want to cut, then you can do it. 

 

[My main concern is the black mold/powdery substance on these new fronds] I wouldn't be concerned with what is outside the trunk. 

 

You can cover the trunk when it is raining. Paper trash bags may be good to cover. 

 

Actually, as I am thinking about it, I will cover my smaller palms with paper trash bags every night. It will keep them warmer without overcooking. 

 

Edited by smatofu

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TylerA
3 hours ago, smatofu said:

 

In my opinion, I would make a marker line so I could see if the spear is growing and I would leave it. 

If you don't see growth in 2-4 weeks and you want to cut, then you can do it. 

 

[My main concern is the black mold/powdery substance on these new fronds] I wouldn't be concerned with what is outside the trunk. 

 

You can cover the trunk when it is raining. Paper trash bags may be good to cover. 

 

Actually, as I am thinking about it, I will cover my smaller palms with paper trash bags every night. It will keep them warmer without overcooking. 

 

So that raises another question, 3 of my other Mexican fan palms had the spears pull, I did hydrogen peroxide, then copper fungicide a day or two later. I know it’s important to keep the crown dry, but isn’t the fungicide in there keeping it wet? I’ve been using a Turkey baster to suction water out, but I went out in the morning and the fungicide is still sitting in there too, should I leave that? Or suction that out so it stays dry?

 

also should I fungicide or peroxide again in a few days or weeks? Or leave it now and see what happens? 

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smatofu

[but isn’t the fungicide in there keeping it wet?] Yes, it is wet, but there is a good ratio of fungicide in the water, so I guess it is OK.  Rain water would dilute your fungicide. 

[also should I fungicide or peroxide again in a few days or weeks?] Supposedly, copper fungicide can be harmful if palms are treated too frequently.

 

My palms spears are sitting tight. Visible spears portions are completely burned by frost but they are dry and without any signs of rot. 

 

 

 

 

 

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smatofu

I see spear movement on my largest 20-ft windmill. Recent warm days and night are very positive. This palm looks good! 

219858358_20210305_075430-Copy.thumb.jpg.34c6ef27f7c6917e0f303c9ee166d92c.jpg

 

2 smaller 6-ft windmills are not growing yet.

 

691831187_20210305_075527-Copy.thumb.jpg.d61bac6b7a256b552b558382df5a2cab.jpg750846470_20210305_075518-Copy.thumb.jpg.9ce44ec579d60a7d524c1da7589b130a.jpg

 

 

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Gaga Iowa/Arkansas

How do you get up to measure a 20’ Palm? Lol! I’m happy for you! We have a 12’ Windmill Palm that we are too unsure of ourselves to climb that high up. We “Think” it looks like some green yet in the crown so we are hopeful yet. 

Edited by Gaga Iowa/Arkansas
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smatofu

Gaga: [How do you get up to measure a 20’ Palm? Lol! I’m happy for you! We have a 12’ Windmill Palm that we are too unsure of ourselves to climb that high up. We “Think” it looks like some green yet in the crown so we are hopeful yet. ]

 

:D  Aluminum Multi-Position Ladder :greenthumb:

Edited by smatofu
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Gaga Iowa/Arkansas
On 2/22/2021 at 7:36 AM, Gaga Iowa/Arkansas said:

I just found this forum and so glad I did! We just moved to Hot Springs Village Arkansas after retiring from Iowa 1 1/2 years ago to escape the snow and cold! Last June we purchased a 12 ft Windmill Palm for our anniversary. They said it was cold hardy. Well, as you know we just had record snow and low temperatures. We had below freezing temps for 10 days straight with the lowest -5 at night and 11 during the day. My husband put some fertilizer down and then we covered the base with burlap and also with a moving blanket. Then the snow piled on top. 
We just were able to dig the snow off and remove the covers. What do you think our chances are for survival are since it hasn’t been in the ground for a year. And what to you suggest we do to help it along? I called our local landscaping business but I don’t feel too confident in their knowledge.
First picture is after the snow.
Second picture is during the snow. 
Third picture is after we had it planted.
Thank you! 

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Gaga Iowa/Arkansas

Hubby went up and checked out the crown today. We were very happy to find out it was hard and dry as a bone in the center! He tried tugging at a couple of the palms and they seemed pretty firm so we decided to leave well enough alone. We are going to give it a drink of water tomorrow,  go forward like we always used to. We are pretty sure we see some green yet at the top yet. Finger crossed for survival! 

Edited by Gaga Iowa/Arkansas

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JJPalmer

Frisco apartment complex Washingtonias absolutely fried. 

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TylerA

So new development, I poured copper fungicide in the crowns 2 days ago, and now a white mold has begun to form on the walls of the crown? Am I just screwed here? I know they say don’t over fungicide, but I feel like that’s my only hope?

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Austin Ag
On 2/22/2021 at 6:44 AM, Austin Ag said:

I have three Pindo Palms that were transplanted from south Texas two year ago.  I wrapped the palms in old style C-bulb Christmas lights and then wrapped that in moving blankets.  
 

Austin Texas area got down to 1-degree and I lost power for as long as 4 to 6 hours. So we will see.  Any recommendations?

 

I will post updated photos later today   

Thanks. 

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Update.  Two weeks and one day after the long deep freeze broke. 
 

I trimmed them up.  Maybe I need to trim more?

Thank you all for the advice   I have been treating each of the hearts of the trees with hydrogen peroxide one every other day.  I can hear the fizzing inside so I’m going to keep this up for the next two weeks unless someone here says that is too often. 

Some green in the heart but I may be overly optimistic.  One palm has a discharge.  Not good news.  

 

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smatofu

3/13 update, DFW area:

20-ft windmill is growing,

one 6-ft windmill is growing,

15-ft cabbage palm - no spear pull; no spear growth; visually spear in mixed condition (some green, healthy tissue visible deep inside),

one 6-ft windmill - no spear pull; no spear growth; visually spear in mixed condition (some green, healthy tissue visible deep inside),

 

The weather has been warm (70s) and no rain, but very cloudy last few days.  I am waiting for growth in the 2 remaining stunt palms to push out the frost damaged tissue before rot and mold get any deeper. 

 

Edited by smatofu
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Gaga Iowa/Arkansas

If a Windmill is slow growing, when should I know if mine is growing? Mine was just planted last June, so not established before the freeze. We see green up in the very middle of the crown. It’s 12’ tall so difficult to get close up. Husband did feel up in the center and said it was had and dry so we felt like that was a good thing. I don’t know what to watch for, for new growth. 

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smatofu
9 minutes ago, Gaga Iowa/Arkansas said:

If a Windmill is slow growing, when should I know if mine is growing? Mine was just planted last June, so not established before the freeze. We see green up in the very middle of the crown. It’s 12’ tall so difficult to get close up. Husband did feel up in the center and said it was had and dry so we felt like that was a good thing. I don’t know what to watch for, for new growth. 

[when should I know if mine is growing? ]

Take a black permanent marker and draw a horizontal line across the spear and some older stems. You can draw multiple lines in multiple places.

By looking at the lines, you will easily see if the spear is growing.  Growing spear = living palm. 

I see about 1/2 inch of spear growth per week on my palms. 

 

Edited by smatofu
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Gaga Iowa/Arkansas

Ok.....we will try if we can reach it! Thanks! 

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smatofu

An 3/15 update, DFW area, after 2 sunny days with temps 70-80F:

20-ft windmill - no change, it is growing, new green spear visible :D

one 6-ft windmill - no change, it is growing,  :D

15-ft cabbage palm - crown around the spear started to grow (maybe 1/2 inch in 2 days). Spear - still no movement. I don't really know what to make of it. I was expecting the spear to grow faster than everything else... Maybe the palm just needs more time... :hmm:

one 6-ft windmill - no spear pull; no spear growth  :hmm:

 

Obviously, sun and temperature are 2 big positive factors. I have a feeling the situation would be much more dire if we had cold and rainy days. 

Edited by smatofu
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Austin Ag

Update from Austin on the Pindo Palms.  

Flashback...After discovering this forum, i learned to treat the heart of the palm with hydrogen-peroxide.  I have been putting ~4 oz CH6N2O3 every other day starting one week after the freeze.  I learned here to mark the fronds to monitor growth.  I did that had here is the results indicating growth in only 5 days (original markings were all aligned).  I'm encouraged ...Thank you all!

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download (2).png

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smatofu
1 hour ago, Austin Ag said:

Update from Austin on the Pindo Palms.  

Flashback...After discovering this forum, i learned to treat the heart of the palm with hydrogen-peroxide.  I have been putting ~4 oz CH6N2O3 every other day starting one week after the freeze.  I learned here to mark the fronds to monitor growth.  I did that had here is the results indicating growth in only 5 days (original markings were all aligned).  I'm encouraged ...Thank you all!

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download (1).png

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The palm looks good. You are out of the danger zone.

Where did you get CH6N2O3  /  Carbamide peroxide , please?

Or do you actually use the common hydrogen peroxide H2O2? 

 

Stan

 

 

 

Edited by smatofu
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Austin Ag

Hydrogen peroxide?  From Amazon.

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strongbad635

robusta.jpg.56c9743bd1b98d9885f2cefc07a1e7d1.jpg

This robusta is at the community where I live in the Houston Heights area.  Absolute minimum here was probably 15f.  Spear intact, new growth is quite vigorous.

 

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This 30-ft robusta is at the community where I am Assistant Manager in the Westchase area of Houston.  The absolute minimum here was 13-14f.  We have 3 robustas that are 25 years old, and all of them got a trim today.  All 3 of them were discovered to have intact spears and some new growth emerging, although not as quickly as the more adolescent robusta where I live.

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Xenon
1 hour ago, strongbad635 said:

 

This robusta is at the community where I live in the Houston Heights area.  Absolute minimum here was probably 15f.  Spear intact, new growth is quite vigorous.

 

 

 

This 30-ft robusta is at the community where I am Assistant Manager in the Westchase area of Houston.  The absolute minimum here was 13-14f.  We have 3 robustas that are 25 years old, and all of them got a trim today.  All 3 of them were discovered to have intact spears and some new growth emerging, although not as quickly as the more adolescent robusta where I live.

That's great news!!! Do you mind if I repost your photos? 

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JJPalmer

Washingtonias didn’t stand a chance in Frisco

30C715D3-5583-4BD6-A13D-C545152F2EA8.jpeg

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smatofu

Washingtonias are a lost cause in the DFW area! I tried for a few years 15 years ago and I gave up. 

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Reyes Vargas

Phoenix Palm before freeze20201115_110142.thumb.jpg.48794bc7711a7d37e3317a713c067a38.jpg

Phoenix Palm a week after freeze20210303_122444.thumb.jpg.02fba5cba3bf6d43421ed44104229f21.jpg

Phoenix Palm today with spear pull20210320_113754.thumb.jpg.bc1758d2151cd444cc9896ef4ef6569c.jpg20210320_113810.thumb.jpg.8b2adbfa9a2555d29ef33a60eb542950.jpg

on the positive side my orange trees are starting to flower20210320_113829.thumb.jpg.e2616d89c1c8e254d6a62d99ea52357f.jpg20210320_113838.thumb.jpg.0f5ba0a76b8b71b9f347daa5fa60091c.jpg

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smatofu
4 hours ago, Reyes Vargas said:

Phoenix Palm before freeze

 

Reyes, 

 

sorry to see it! Have you treated your palm with copper fungicide?

BTW, I added a little bit of neem oil to my last copper fungicide treatment. I had some white mold growth on my cabbage palm, but coper + neem + dry weather removed any sight of mold. 

 

Edited by smatofu

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Reyes Vargas
7 minutes ago, smatofu said:

Reyes, 

 

sorry to see it! Have you treated your palm with copper fungicide?

BTW, I added a little bit of neem oil to my last copper fungicide treatment. I had some white mold growth on my cabbage palm, but coper + neem + dry weather removed any sight of mold. 

 

I have been treating with copper fungicide and now I'm treating with hydrogen peroxide to see if it helps.  It smells pretty bad so I don't think it's going to make it.  Doesn't hurt to try.  The rest of the Phoenix palms have good center spears so hope they pull through.

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smatofu
1 hour ago, Reyes Vargas said:

I have been treating with copper fungicide and now I'm treating with hydrogen peroxide to see if it helps.  It smells pretty bad so I don't think it's going to make it.  Doesn't hurt to try.  The rest of the Phoenix palms have good center spears so hope they pull through.

Try to add neem oil to your copper fungicide. It may be just my subjective impression, but the mixture seems more effective than copper alone. 

 

Edited by smatofu
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strongbad635
On 3/18/2021 at 11:39 AM, Xenon said:

That's great news!!! Do you mind if I repost your photos? 

Don't mind at all!

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Collectorpalms
On 3/19/2021 at 11:02 AM, JJPalmer said:

Washingtonias didn’t stand a chance in Frisco

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Those did not appear to be Washingtonia Robusta, they look pretty thick. They normally would have probably made it. I doubt they replace them.

Edited by Collectorpalms

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