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WestCoastGal

This is bad. Ft. Worth is having rotating outages.

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WestCoastGal
On 2/18/2021 at 12:32 PM, palmnut-fry said:

Ahh sorry AMH! Damnnn- so xmas lites would've done bunk in this 3rd world state!  My rant is with you- esp hearing our crony leaders blame green energy for their screw ups!

We had one sorry Senator busted now- took his family to Mexican resort! Pitchfork time, peeps!

Hey and just the other weekend (one balmy day) I was out washing cars and my neighbor bragged about this new electric provider that you pay a "small fee" where they buy "boot leg" market energy and you pay cheap. In good times, yeah, but now they're saying an unfortunate scam as power prices went skyrocket with this freak out and some owe $7K for ONE DAYS of power! CRAZY.

I wonder if my neighbor is over there crying in the dark?! :o

Are memories so short or people too young that people don’t remember Houston, Texas’ Enron and buying on the spot market and getting gouged? Supply and demand and cost.

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Silas_Sancona
6 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Houston needs to rename one of our stadiums after Mattress Mack. 

Agree, whole heartedly.. " Mack Stadium " has a ring to it as well.. I  hope his business ( -es? ) do well after the dust settles..

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JohnAndSancho
Just now, Silas_Sancona said:

Agree, whole heartedly.. " Mack Stadium " has a ring to it as well.. I  hope his business ( -es? ) do well after the dust settles..

His stores are MASSIVE. He's always opened them as shelters during hurricanes and all of our floods. 

 

Local icon. 

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IHB1979
14 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Nat gas electric power plants are the only plants (except nuclear) that can ramp quickly enough to cover for renewables(wind/solar). 

So in other words, Texas power grid is under-engineered for cold weather.  When coal/natural gas go down, which represent around 70% of TX power generation, no source will be able to cover. 

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Silas_Sancona
12 minutes ago, WestCoastGal said:

Are memories so short or people too young that people don’t remember Houston, Texas’ Enron and buying on the spot market and getting gouged? Supply and demand and cost.

Do barely remember the whole ENRON debacle, which should have been a glaring warning about handing over something -of such importance- to a few hands..  PG&E is bad enough as is.. and shouldn't exist as a company anymore.. The power conglomerate in AZ keeps trying to find ways to fleece it's customers, but that's being kept in check, at least for now..

***Brief, bit of a rant*** looking at the bigger picture for a sec.., one thing i don't get about many utilities ( mainly electric )  We've seen countless times how having wires dangling over head might not be the best way to move electricity around ..so why not bury more lines?  Ours are, at least in this part of Chandler.. and i know other areas have been doing this. Have had some good storms that brought down metal poles but, in the 5 years here, have lost power here once or twice.. for an hour or two at most..  and no ugly/dangerous lines overhead.

We can invent/ plan out things like the Hyper Loop, new waterproof paint/plastics using nano particles, etc.. Blow up a rocket -that oddly looks like part of the human anatomy-, -for kicks-  but many electricity companies go into full panic attack mode when  the question of  "Maybe we should further explore options for transmission lines " is brought up..  Took calling the local utility in Bradenton several times before they finally came to remove stuff growing over the lines in my yard -which would arc/spark during an  average thunderstorm.. and they really didn't remove all that much of what was hung up in the wires..

Can agree, while burying transmission lines might not solve all potential issues ( many other things these companies should be doing as well ) but i have a tough time believing putting  lines underground would cause more transmission problems, especially with 2021 -and future technology, -which the companies should pay for-.

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JohnAndSancho
50 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

We can invent/ plan out things like the Hyper Loop, new waterproof paint/plastics using nano particles, etc.. Blow up a rocket -that oddly looks like part of the human anatomy-, -for kicks-  but many electricity companies go into full panic attack mode when  the question of  "Maybe we should further explore options for transmission lines " is brought up.. 

 

Let's not get carried away. We still can't make a burrito that microwaves evenly.

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Silas_Sancona
1 minute ago, JohnAndSancho said:

 

Let's not get carried away. We still can't make a burrito that microwaves evenly.

:floor:  So true..

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PalmatierMeg
1 hour ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Do barely remember the whole ENRON debacle, which should have been a glaring warning about handing over something -of such importance- to a few hands..  PG&E is bad enough as is.. and shouldn't exist as a company anymore.. The power conglomerate in AZ keeps trying to find ways to fleece it's customers, but that's being kept in check, at least for now..

***Brief, bit of a rant*** looking at the bigger picture for a sec.., one thing i don't get about many utilities ( mainly electric )  We've seen countless times how having wires dangling over head might not be the best way to move electricity around ..so why not bury more lines?  Ours are, at least in this part of Chandler.. and i know other areas have been doing this. Have had some good storms that brought down metal poles but, in the 5 years here, have lost power here once or twice.. for an hour or two at most..  and no ugly/dangerous lines overhead.

We can invent/ plan out things like the Hyper Loop, new waterproof paint/plastics using nano particles, etc.. Blow up a rocket -that oddly looks like part of the human anatomy-, -for kicks-  but many electricity companies go into full panic attack mode when  the question of  "Maybe we should further explore options for transmission lines " is brought up..  Took calling the local utility in Bradenton several times before they finally came to remove stuff growing over the lines in my yard -which would arc/spark during an  average thunderstorm.. and they really didn't remove all that much of what was hung up in the wires..

Can agree, while burying transmission lines might not solve all potential issues ( many other things these companies should be doing as well ) but i have a tough time believing putting  lines underground would cause more transmission problems, especially with 2021 -and future technology, -which the companies should pay for-.

Communities always plead cost. Cape Coral says, "Too expensive" a lot so nearly all of the Cape's power lines are airborne. However, somehow Cape Coral poobahs and Lee County Electric will make exceptions. Building a neighborhood of $1,000,00+ McMansions? By all means bury the utilities. Well-heeled residents should never have to look at telephone poles or wires.  Of course Cape Coral will upgrade its 1950s era historic downtown of 1-story hodgepodge storefronts! Bury those electric lines 4 blocks north and 1 mile west so tourists and residents can better see that Mid-century panorama of blandness.

But if you don't have history or $$$$$$ on your side you will have to eat dirt and die before your lines move underground.

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jwitt
3 hours ago, IHB1979 said:

So in other words, Texas power grid is under-engineered for cold weather.  When coal/natural gas go down, which represent around 70% of TX power generation, no source will be able to cover. 

And the Nat gas supply had the same problem in 2/2011 causing entire cities in NM to lose heat in a colder(not as long though) event. 

 

This current event, the gas to NM was not affected, and Nat gas to shipping ports continued until caught. Gas to electrical power plants was shut down this time.  

 

I am just saying "they" knew  about the issue for some time.

It's a Nat gas issue. Known to "freeze" up in past events. Throw in new gas powered plants and another cold event..........

 

I hope all Texans' the best for recovery and justice.

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JohnAndSancho
Just now, jwitt said:

I hope all Texans' the best for recovery and justice.

Another issue is, Texas has their own power grid. We don't share with other states. I honestly never knew that and I've lived here for 12 years. 

 

They did this because the powers that be didn't want to have to spend the money following federal regulations on things like, ummmm - mandatory winterization of equipment. So they blame the windmills for freezing even though nobody bothered to spray deicing fluid on them. 

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jwitt
10 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Another issue is, Texas has their own power grid. We don't share with other states. I honestly never knew that and I've lived here for 12 years. 

 

They did this because the powers that be didn't want to have to spend the money following federal regulations on things like, ummmm - mandatory winterization of equipment. So they blame the windmills for freezing even though nobody bothered to spray deicing fluid on them. 

Some number of windmills were not working due to the ice. Most were.  The wind dropped then stopped.  The weather statistics on the plains proves it. That's where the wind farms are.

Yes, they knew about the gas supply capacity being affected by cold.

 

This is from the Albuquerque Journal in 5/2011

"The PRC determined system emergencies on the northern and southern segments of the NMGC system were caused by upstream producers’ inability to supply and deliver gas due to the severe weather, freeze-offs of wells, rolling electrical blackouts in Texas and high demand for gas."

 

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amh
14 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

Another issue is, Texas has their own power grid. We don't share with other states. I honestly never knew that and I've lived here for 12 years. 

 

They did this because the powers that be didn't want to have to spend the money following federal regulations on things like, ummmm - mandatory winterization of equipment. So they blame the windmills for freezing even though nobody bothered to spray deicing fluid on them. 

This is a WWII leftover, but while winterization would be good, you never let the camel get its nose under the tent.

Edited by amh
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NOT A TA
4 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

***Brief, bit of a rant*** looking at the bigger picture for a sec.., one thing i don't get about many utilities ( mainly electric )  We've seen countless times how having wires dangling over head might not be the best way to move electricity around ..so why not bury more lines?  Ours are, at least in this part of Chandler.. and i know other areas have been doing this. Have had some good storms that brought down metal poles but, in the 5 years here, have lost power here once or twice.. for an hour or two at most..  and no ugly/dangerous lines overhead.

I've been saying for decades that when new roads are built or old ones are upgraded/rebuilt that the water and natural gas lines should be under the sidewalk on one side of the road and the electric, phone, and cable stuff under the opposite side. Make the sidewalks out of something like recycled plastic so they can be easily removed in sections. Make the sections big and heavy enough so kids can't move them. The ongoing practice of digging trenches in the roads to work on pipelines etc. is archaic. 

We got new hurricane poles on my street this week. I'm along the route for the high voltage lines which are above ground in front of my house while the service for my home is actually underground behind the house.

20210217_112719.jpg?width=1920&height=10

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JohnAndSancho

Texas is weird. 

 

I lived in a fairly new (2009) subdivision in Spring (roughly 20 mins from Houston or so), and I was just across the Harris/Montgomery County line and all utilities are underground. 

 

When they built the Grand Parkway, and all of the subsequent schools/newer subdivisions, they ran old skool power lines across the back of our subdivision. 

Edited by JohnAndSancho
I was off by a few years.

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Silas_Sancona
24 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

I've been saying for decades that when new roads are built or old ones are upgraded/rebuilt that the water and natural gas lines should be under the sidewalk on one side of the road and the electric, phone, and cable stuff under the opposite side. Make the sidewalks out of something like recycled plastic so they can be easily removed in sections. Make the sections big and heavy enough so kids can't move them. The ongoing practice of digging trenches in the roads to work on pipelines etc. is archaic. 

We got new hurricane poles on my street this week. I'm along the route for the high voltage lines which are above ground in front of my house while the service for my home is actually underground behind the house.

20210217_112719.jpg?width=1920&height=10

Completely agree.. and imagine adding it in when rehabilitating a roadway would easily cut costs vs. having to dig up countless back yards.  Not sure how it all works here.. Know our electrical lines run thru the Alleys in my neighborhood to a master? box, ..but not all of the newer developments have alley ways..  Gas may run back there, or out to the street ( Water does ).. Regardless, they're constantly tearing up sidewalks near the house/ hospital/med/business parks nearby and when they ran 5G/ new internet line along our side of the street, they didn't have to tear up every square inch of sidewalk to do it.. Kind of neat watching them feed the line down the road underground. Recent work might be setting up a change of more of the street lights over to LED atm.  Would imagine electrical should be about as easy to run, as long as the proper infrastructure/insulation is in place to protect the lines from the elements/ any potential tampering.  If ease of access to the lines is an issue, Could run it under street islands as well.  Imo, Overhead lines are just outdated and present more dangers than benefits... As far as city/county/state costs?.. Maybe shelve that new Stadium of Golf Course project..  

 

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NOT A TA

Here they run underground lines for streetlights using a hydro system, so no digging. water pumped in to remove the sand/soil while a pipe for wires is installed at the same time. They can run lines and turn wherever they want. 

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Silas_Sancona
5 minutes ago, NOT A TA said:

Here they run underground lines for streetlights using a hydro system, so no digging. water pumped in to remove the sand/soil while a pipe for wires is installed at the same time. They can run lines and turn wherever they want. 

Imagine they do the same here.

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Matt N- Dallas

Now you hear it everywhere in this state. People are talking and understanding what our leaders’ laissez faire disregard for oversight has done to us. Those beloved words “free market” have left us cold, without water, in the dark. The energy capital of America is a laughingstock, and deservedly so.

Who knew that our own leaders could destroy us?

The enemy is within. It’s not California values. It’s not the federal government. It sure isn’t windmills.

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ExperimentalGrower
On 2/19/2021 at 1:14 AM, Matt N- Dallas said:

This has devolved into a humanitarian crisis in TX.  One would never know TX is the 9th largest economy in WORLD with a population of 30 million. The state leaders often tout TX as the top energy producing state in the country while criticizing and mocking CA. The utility infrastructure has failed due to TX taking shortcuts of skipping winterization of natural gas lines and wind producing turbines in the name of maximizing profits & poor management.  When crisis hits- customers get to foot the bill.  State government, the PUC, and the railroad commission have carefully crafted ERCOT to flout being connected to the national grid in order to avoid any regulation & maximize profits. 
 

Millions of Texans have been affected by the complete loss of electricity, rolling blackouts, loss of water, loss of clean water (under boil orders), hazardous road conditions, loss of internet & cell service, loss of natural gas and more.  The supply chain has broken- fuel outages, grocery outages, closed stores & millions of homes experiencing broken water pipes and internal flooding.  Several thousand cases (that are known of) so far, of carbon monoxide poisoning from people trying to stay warm.  People and pets are being found dead and frozen.  I know many that have been without power, heat and water for days while dealing with single digit to temps in the teens. I feel for so many fighting covid- praying for the well being and safety of all during this unimaginable scale of suffering. 

Brutal. The hubris is excruciating.  :(

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Silas_Sancona
13 hours ago, Matt N- Dallas said:

Now you hear it everywhere in this state. People are talking and understanding what our leaders’ laissez faire disregard for oversight has done to us. Those beloved words “free market” have left us cold, without water, in the dark. The energy capital of America is a laughingstock, and deservedly so.

Who knew that our own leaders could destroy us?

The enemy is within. It’s not California values. It’s not the federal government. It sure isn’t windmills.

You guys seeing similar stories?  Wow!
https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/deep-freeze-subsides-texans-now-face-electricity-bills-10-000-n1258362

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WestCoastGal
21 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I think that only applies to those that signed up with Griddy and didn’t switch to another provider as Griddy suggested when they saw what was happening to prices on the spot market. Not too many companies out there that will tell you to go to competitors because they knew you would be committing otherwise to huge bills. One customer who had an empty house to sell felt it was still worth getting electricity so the house’s pipes didn’t burst and will pay the going rate. Not sure what others who can’t afford to do so will do. Legally they are responsible and while Griddy can offer payment plans I see many not able to honor those and may face bankruptcy. Griddy is on the hook too for paying those charges from their end of purchase. Spot market pricing is also likely why some utilities went to blackouts to some degree. Such a bad situation for everyone. 

So it comes down to the cost of winterizing equipment. Utilities except for some like El Paso passed on the expense leaving the resulting cost of their equipment and line damages up to them and their insurance companies I guess. Guess their customers will have to cover their own damage/rebuild costs themselves except for what any insurance might pick up. IMO the utilities who didn’t make the investment in winterizing should have to eat it but doubt it will happen. See lots of bankruptcies ahead, people moving out of state. Also expect higher utility costs and wonder if Texas will get a state tax to help fund utility infrastructure. People and companies in the state wanted to support cheap energy and this looks to be a result of it. 

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WestCoastGal

Texas Monthly had this story on El Paso and how they operate their utilities and the investments they made after their crippling 2011 freeze.
https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/el-paso-electric-winter-storm-2021/

AppleNews link if that works for you.
https://apple.news/AKK-f_VcPQd2ZRt_IpXBctg

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Matt N- Dallas
2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Yes- quite a few of these stories.  Anyone in Tx that is not on a fixed rate electricity plan may be hit with these inhumane charges.  I’ve heard from some (w/ variable rate plans) that their bill has been racking up at the rate of +$400 per day during the last week.  These outrageous charges are for normal 2-3 bedroom houses!  Several electricity carriers’ answers to their bewildered customers are “change to a different carrier”.  

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Silas_Sancona
2 minutes ago, Matt N- Dallas said:

Yes- quite a few of these stories.  Anyone in Tx that is not on a fixed rate electricity plan may be hit with these inhumane charges.  I’ve heard from some (w/ variable rate plans) that their bill has been racking up at the rate of +$400 per day during the last week.  These outrageous charges are for normal 2-3 bedroom houses!  Several electricity carriers’ answers to their bewildered customers are “change to a different carrier”.  

I often wonder where these people think the customers are going to get that kind of money, even when spread out over time, and not just in Texas either..  Ya' know cuz' everyone has 10's/ 100's of thousands of dollars hidden in their back yard, ..growing on the row of money trees along the back fence, right? :rolleyes:  

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WestCoastGal
31 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I often wonder where these people think the customers are going to get that kind of money, even when spread out over time, and not just in Texas either..  Ya' know cuz' everyone has 10's/ 100's of thousands of dollars hidden in their back yard, ..growing on the row of money trees along the back fence, right? :rolleyes:  

Anytime you sign a contract be it for a mortgage or in this case utility arrangement with floating or adjustable rate charges you risk financial consequences when the rates adjust upwards, even if they have a period cap. 

So many people in the 80s got burned and went bankrupt and many lost their homes when rates were climbing and they either bought a home with such a rate or took out balloon payment arrangements thinking rates would go down before it came due. It’s too bad schools don't teach about this kind of thing happening. Real life lessons are more painful than book learning. I had the advantage of working in a law firm and seeing clients come in who could no longer afford their home requiring a sale and sometimes needing a bankruptcy filing so as I got older stayed away from such arrangements. People need to be smart consumers and understand what they are signing up for.

I suspect those not able to make payment arrangements will end up either selling their home or other assets to cover or will end up with a ruined credit history and filing for bankruptcy on top of everything they just went through. 

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Silas_Sancona
4 minutes ago, WestCoastGal said:

Anytime you sign a contract be it for a mortgage or in this case utility arrangement with floating or adjustable rate charges you risk financial consequences when the rates adjust upwards, even if they have a period cap. So many people in the 80s got burned and went bankrupt and many lost their homes when rates were climbing and they either bought a home with such a rate or took out balloon payment arrangements thinking rates would go down before it came due. It’s too bad schools don't teach about this kind of thing happening. Real life lessons are more painful than book learning. I had the advantage of working in a law firm and seeing clients come in who could no longer afford their home requiring a sale and sometimes needing a bankruptcy filing so as I got older stayed away from such arragements.

Agree, Just the sound of  " adjustable rate.. "  should send people running the same way ground squirrels do whenever a hawk flies over their home.  And yes, something that should be taught in High school, -at least-. 

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WestCoastGal

A bit more of an update on Griddy from this Vox article linked to below:

On Wednesday, Texas’s Public Utility Commission moved to cap wholesale prices at $9,000 per megawatt-hour, or $9 per kilowatt-hour....

In a Friday statement however, Griddy said that it was “seeking customer relief” from the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT), which manages most of the state’s power grid, and from the state’s Public Utility Commission.

“Griddy is continuing these efforts and is committed to crediting customers for any relief received, dollar-for-dollar,” the company said. Failing that relief, customers could be on the hook for thousands of dollars worth of bills.”

Griddy was the only wholesale provider mentioned although there are others in Texas. They have at least sounded proactive to alert their customers of demand rates and quickly seeking any relief for them if granted.

https://www.vox.com/2021/2/20/22292926/texas-high-electric-bills-winter-storm-griddy

Cost of maintaining heat in your home for what was suppose to be a rotating blackout so pipes didn’t burst over cost of not having heat and repairs bills from subsequent water damage. Tough choice. 

Sorry, board doesn’t appear to let me adjust type size, weird.

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WestCoastGal

I wonder if one’s homeowners insurance would cover loss of landscaping materials like palms from an event like this. Many palms are on the rare side or very mature and can be a real financial hit.

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JohnAndSancho
2 hours ago, Silas_Sancona said:

I often wonder where these people think the customers are going to get that kind of money, even when spread out over time, and not just in Texas either..  Ya' know cuz' everyone has 10's/ 100's of thousands of dollars hidden in their back yard, ..growing on the row of money trees along the back fence, right? :rolleyes:  

I do have 2 "money trees" but so far neither has given me any actual money. 

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Silas_Sancona
8 minutes ago, JohnAndSancho said:

I do have 2 "money trees" but so far neither has given me any actual money. 

Wonder if this would be a good excuse to use  " ....Yes,  ..i understand  ..Unfortunately, i won't be able to pay this month, our Money trees froze and we're in the process of looking for new ones.. May take a few months to find any since it looks like all in nurseries around the state suffered extensive damage as well. Might even have to look out of state " :D:lol:

Maybe change the story to : " Ground is still frozen here, Won't be able to access the Gold we have buried out back for awhile "..

Edited by Silas_Sancona
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JohnAndSancho
5 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Wonder if this would be a good excuse to use  " ....Yes,  ..i understand  ..Unfortunately, i won't be able to pay this month, our Money trees froze and we're in the process of looking for new ones.. May take a few months to find any since it looks like all in nurseries around the state suffered extensive damage as well. Might even have to look out of state " :D:lol:

Maybe change the story to : " Ground is still frozen here, Won't be able to access the Gold we have buried out back for awhile "..

It was too cold for me to stand on my street corner :w00:

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PalmatierMeg

Somebody said I had to pay the Bill

Da En Ron Ron Ron, Da En Ron Ron

Guess I really dated myself

 

 

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