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Palmageddon Aftermath Photo Thread

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Collectorpalms
16 minutes ago, amh said:

Has anyone been to Kerrville since the freeze?

I'm wondering how all the palms off of 27 are doing.

7136696_Screenshot_2021-02-28GoogleMaps.thumb.jpg.de5bd54b89a78b4914ddc7df81633d02.jpg

 

8DAB4BB1-697D-4585-812F-FEE06C14D134.jpeg

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amh
12 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

 

8DAB4BB1-697D-4585-812F-FEE06C14D134.jpeg

So, not much hope?

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Collectorpalms
5 minutes ago, amh said:

So, not much hope?

I am seeing variability in Sabal Mexicana ( Like Sabal Uresana) on this board. Those from what I can tell are all sabal mexicana of the same exact source. Lets hope they are the hardier ones. If so, I think they will only defoliate. I have a sabal mexicana that is close to the height of the power lines. I hope its only an illusion that are so close to power line, to only have them removed later.

Edited by Collectorpalms
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amh
2 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

I am seeing variability in Sabal Mexicana ( Like Sabal Uresana) on this board. Those from what I can tell are all sabal mexicana of the same exact source. Lets hope they are the hardier ones. If so, I think they will only defoliate. 

I know they have experience single digit temperatures in the past 5 years, but I dont know how low.

They are planted on the other side of that property along water street as well. This would be a very expensive loss.

Edited by amh

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Collectorpalms
10 minutes ago, amh said:

I know they have experience single digit temperatures in the past 5 years, but I dont know how low.

They are planted on the other side of that property along water street as well. This would be a very expensive loss.

Looks like 60 of them. Ill have to try Mamacita's Restaurant.

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palmnut-fry

Noticed today that even native-ish Tx Slash pine are burnt! Live oaks in droves are burnt to a crisp and maybe alive if not trunk fractured! Say good-bye to Indian hawthornes ( raphiolepsis) a most commonly used foundation plant. I commented b4 maybe Italian cypress damage but amazingly little noticeable so far. Loropetalum ( burgundy fringe flower) shrubs, which have been planted in droves since the 90s, are toast. It is really depressing to see so many foundation plantings ruined if not out-right dead!:(,  Nandinas and hollies seem okay- lots of those too, maybe not noticed yet. Even the coveted dwarf yaupon can be found burned by this most severe freeze in recent history! I dare say my poor "HINES HARDY" Pittosporums are perhaps gonners. DAMN

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PricklyPearSATC
6 minutes ago, palmnut-fry said:

Noticed today that even native-ish Tx Slash pine are burnt! Live oaks in droves are burnt to a crisp and maybe alive if not trunk fractured! Say good-bye to Indian hawthornes ( raphiolepsis) a most commonly used foundation plant. I commented b4 maybe Italian cypress damage but amazingly little noticeable so far. Loropetalum ( burgundy fringe flower) shrubs, which have been planted in droves since the 90s, are toast. It is really depressing to see so many foundation plantings ruined if not out-right dead!:(,  Nandinas and hollies seem okay- lots of those too, maybe not noticed yet. Even the coveted dwarf yaupon can be found burned by this most severe freeze in recent history! I dare say my poor "HINES HARDY" Pittosporums are perhaps gonners. DAMN

My pineapple guava looks pathetic. 

Most of the plants above should recover.

My pittosporums are still green, although they dropped leaves...similar to a hail storm causes leaves to drop. 

 

I have purple heart which is fairly dense, a beschnorneria (agave family) and Viburnum suspensum all close to each other.  They do not smell good. The viburnums were blooming, the purple heart is a mushy succulent, and beschnoreria goes without saying.    The beschnorneria is hardy to zone 6, but it developed rot.  I'm trying to save it.  Two pups are goners....I just hope the snout weevil hasn't gotten to it already. 

Edited by PricklyPearSATC
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amh
18 minutes ago, palmnut-fry said:

Noticed today that even native-ish Tx Slash pine are burnt! Live oaks in droves are burnt to a crisp and maybe alive if not trunk fractured! Say good-bye to Indian hawthornes ( raphiolepsis) a most commonly used foundation plant. I commented b4 maybe Italian cypress damage but amazingly little noticeable so far. Loropetalum ( burgundy fringe flower) shrubs, which have been planted in droves since the 90s, are toast. It is really depressing to see so many foundation plantings ruined if not out-right dead!:(,  Nandinas and hollies seem okay- lots of those too, maybe not noticed yet. Even the coveted dwarf yaupon can be found burned by this most severe freeze in recent history! I dare say my poor "HINES HARDY" Pittosporums are perhaps gonners. DAMN

The oaks survived 1800's and 1949, so they should be fine, but I have noticed the native holly species look burned. Boxwood is unfazed and the nandina is looking fine.

12 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

My pineapple guava looks pathetic. 

Most of the plants above should recover.

My pittosporums are still green, although they dropped leaves...similar to a hail storm causes leaves to drop. 

 

I have purple heart which is fairly dense, a beschnorneria (agave family) and Viburnum suspensum all close to each other.  They do not smell good. The viburnums were blooming, the purple heart is a mushy succulent, and beschnoreria goes without saying.    The beschnorneria is hardy to zone 6, but it developed rot.  I'm trying to save it.  Two pups are goners....I just hope the snout weevil hasn't gotten to it already. 

My pineapple guava are looking bad, but should survive. In 2017 my yard was 8F and the guavas were not bothered at all.

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jimmyt

Here is what my Sabal mexicana looks like in the aftermath.  It was unprotected.  I sprayed the crown with copper sulfate and Freeze-Pruf.  I don’t know if that helped any.  My low temp was -2 F.  The crown and central petioles remain green and the spear bud is solid.  I am just NW of Waco a few miles.  

775B406F-5281-440C-9249-F60A6D412D75.jpeg

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amh
1 minute ago, jimmyt said:

Here is what my Sabal mexicana looks like in the aftermath.  It was unprotected.  I sprayed the crown with copper sulfate and Freeze-Pruf.  I don’t know if that helped any.  My low temp was -2 F.  The crown and central petioles remain green and the spear bud is solid.  I am just NW of Waco a few miles.  

775B406F-5281-440C-9249-F60A6D412D75.jpeg

Hopefully it will recover.

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Collectorpalms

1895 and 1899 pretty darn coldest week ever but look how 2021 compares locally... look at the 7 day average of 25.9F for College Station.

93D647C0-65B0-41CD-BEA2-FF40006402A9.jpeg

5823C739-4B0B-4465-BF22-6419CD1D985F.jpeg

Edited by Collectorpalms
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Xenon

Crazy how quickly things change...my Colocasia are already resprouting and the peaches and mangolias are blooming. Now if only the palms would push out a green leaf...

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NBTX11

Should I water my struggling palm trees?

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amh
1 hour ago, Xenon said:

Crazy how quickly things change...my Colocasia are already resprouting and the peaches and mangolias are blooming. Now if only the palms would push out a green leaf...

I think my peach buds got nuked, but the plums seem okay.

55 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Should I water my struggling palm trees?

Not an expert, but if the ground is wet or moist, I wouldn't. Without functional leaves to draw excess water the roots could rot.

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Collectorpalms
22 minutes ago, amh said:

I think my peach buds got nuked, but the plums seem okay.

Not an expert, but if the ground is wet or moist, I wouldn't. Without functional leaves to draw excess water the roots could rot.

It is interesting to have different opinions. I have always watered/fertilized them like crazy ( defoliated ) once the soil temperature normally averaged 65F and above. That is Usually March 15. In 2011 the cold was followed by drought. I think you are referring to washingtonia, they can come back even in drought. For other less drought hardy palms I still plan to do what I have done in the past in regards to palms, not necessarily other tropical like plants.

2010.

aggiefun.JPG

metbuilding.JPG

texassabalAM (1).JPG

1980s Survivors Sabal Mexicana. Survived low single digits. Albeit, very well protected spot. Maybe one of the best seats in town.

kylefieldsnow.JPG

Edited by Collectorpalms
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amh
6 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

It is interesting to have different opinions. I have always watered/fertilized them like crazy ( defoliated ) once the soil temperature normally averaged 65F and above. That is Usually March 15. In 2011 the cold was followed by drought. I think you are referring to washingtonia, they can come back even in drought. For other less drought hardy things I still plant to do what I have done in the past in regards to palms, not necessarily other tropical like plants.

2010.

aggiefun.JPG

metbuilding.JPG

texassabalAM (1).JPG

1980s Survivors Sabal Mexicana. Survived low single digits. Albeit, very well protected spot. maybe one of the best seats in town.

kylefieldsnow.JPG

No arguments here, I just dont like plants with wet feet in cool temperatures. Fertilizer is a good idea, especially coming into the growing season.

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oliver

I know this is a photo thread. Will post photos later. Down here in my backyard in Brownsville, we had 2 nights below freezing. Sunday/Monday, was below 32 for about 12 hrs with the bottom at 28. Mon/Tues got 14 hrs down to 27. Tues/Wed bounced off the 32 mark for about 8 hrs. So far, almost everything is brown. Queen palms are fine, Sabal and Washingtonia look like nothing happened. I am concerned about all the tall Royals. The leaves are completely burned, however crownshaft and petioles still are still green. Kentiopsis olive and pyri are questionable as are my Chabeyroinia . Surprisingly, the Carribean stuff looks like most will survive, including many Coccothrinax, all of the Copernicia, including some almost trunking fallaensis. The thing that really surprises me are the Tahinias. Althought the leaves are burned and curled up, the new spear is growing like a champ. Will send a pic later but the 2 that I marked 1 week ago have already grown at least 5cm. Even the 2 I have remaining in pots look good!

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palmnut-fry

Man that's interesting reporting here on this thread! Invaluable research for scientists to work with, obviously. Trunking Corpernicias in TX?! That would be remarkable if they survive and go on to be as spectacular as they are in Cuba. 

While clearing protective mulch from my garden yesterday I was amazed a baby Sabal seedling is ALL fried( with several palmate leaves so not THAT young)! Other minors around and many many years old, a couple even unwrapped, look perfect. This one must be a baby texana or bermudana as there are some nearby but sure is a testament at how bloody cold it got!    30 year old needle palm, unwrapped, totally okay. As is his smaller brother I planted in back but did put out some protection for him. Really disgusted at how my main Trachy looks like totally blow-torched! Sad

Again, many evergreens like podocarpus and loquat are fine whereas  you'll see abelias and agave decidedly skeleton-ized. Like so many bleached coral! Feel bad for so many home owners &    companies will have to replace tons of plant material. How many will just go back to doing safe plantings (like after the great '83-84 event) as only hollies, junipers and red tip photinias EVERYWEHERE!:crying:

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Collectorpalms
32 minutes ago, oliver said:

I know this is a photo thread. Will post photos later. Down here in my backyard in Brownsville, we had 2 nights below freezing. Sunday/Monday, was below 32 for about 12 hrs with the bottom at 28. Mon/Tues got 14 hrs down to 27. Tues/Wed bounced off the 32 mark for about 8 hrs. So far, almost everything is brown. Queen palms are fine, Sabal and Washingtonia look like nothing happened. I am concerned about all the tall Royals. The leaves are completely burned, however crownshaft and petioles still are still green. Kentiopsis olive and pyri are questionable as are my Chabeyroinia . Surprisingly, the Carribean stuff looks like most will survive, including many Coccothrinax, all of the Copernicia, including some almost trunking fallaensis. The thing that really surprises me are the Tahinias. Althought the leaves are burned and curled up, the new spear is growing like a champ. Will send a pic later but the 2 that I marked 1 week ago have already grown at least 5cm. Even the 2 I have remaining in pots look good!

All the official weather stations by the NWS reported a minimum of 22F in the RGV ( or for the whole state!). Only 27F would be quite an amazing spot. Since this was an adjective freeze for the RGV ( windy event) most of all microclimates was minimal. 

Edited by Collectorpalms

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oliver

Brownsville definitely did not see 22. The upper valley is significantly cooler than Brownsville. The temperature reading for reporting is usually done from the airport in Brownsville which does generally get a little cooler since it is in the middle of a big field with no water anywhere near by. My house is a tall 2 story house which shields my backyard from north wind and my backyard contains a large pool and pond, and backs onto a flowing waterway. I have 2 different temperature probes in the backyard and a handheld with which I checked every few hours those days. All thermometers were in a agreement and the temp did not go below 27 in my backyard. I suspect most of the sheltered areas next to water in Brownsville were similar. It is possible that the north facing exposed areas went to 26. I was constantly keeping an eye on the weather and the online/tv temp in Brownsville never went below 26.

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oliver

Dypsis, C. fallaensis, Bismarckia at my office which is more exposed than house.

20210301_094438.jpg

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oliver

More from the office. Tahinia, Psuedophoenix, small and tall Coccothrinax.  Btw the tall one was completely exposed at the top and still looks green although hard to tell in photo.

20210301_094703.jpg

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20210301_094832.jpg

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oliver

7 day Tahinia spear growth

20210301_120303.jpg

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oliver

40ft Copernicia alba. Looks completely unphased

20210301_120708.jpg

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Fusca

Here is the first of 2 surgeries performed in an attempt to save some palms.  This was result of my smallest mule - 6-7' overall height.  Treated with Daconil fungicide and covered to keep dry as we got rain last night.  Did the same to a 3-4' Copernicia prunifera.  Now we wait...

 

IMG_20210228_165337.jpg

Edited by Fusca
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oliver

My biggest C fallaensis with 5 day spear growth

20210301_121317.jpg

20210301_121345.jpg

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oliver

Left to right. Dead looking 40ft mango, c. Macrocarpa looking ??, mature K. Oliviformis looking ??? , Some ??? Dypsis and a dead papaya 

20210301_121440.jpg

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RJ
8 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Here is the first of 2 surgeries performed in an attempt to save some palms.  This was result of my smallest mule - 6-7' overall height.  Treated with Daconil fungicide and covered to keep dry as we got rain last night.  Now we wait...

 

 

Wow, hope it pulls through. The tissue looks pretty good still. (No mush). What temps did you see again? Sorry if I missed it. 

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Fusca
10 minutes ago, RJ said:

Wow, hope it pulls through. The tissue looks pretty good still. (No mush). What temps did you see again? Sorry if I missed it. 

Thanks Randy, hope so too.  Prunifera stump looks the same, just smaller.  No mush on either and leaf petiole bases were green on both so hopeful!  We hit 9° the morning of 2/15 with several inches of snow (after ice the previous night) and next night saw 13°.  Aside from an hour or two above freezing went nearly 110 consecutive hours below freezing.  Haven't seen that since I left Tennessee.  I tried to protect the bud as much as possible but did not have enough lights to use on it so only minimal protection.  :(  Larger mule did not spear pull so just leaving it be for now. 

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necturus
4 hours ago, Fusca said:

Here is the first of 2 surgeries performed in an attempt to save some palms.  This was result of my smallest mule - 6-7' overall height.  Treated with Daconil fungicide and covered to keep dry as we got rain last night.  Did the same to a 3-4' Copernicia prunifera.  Now we wait...

 

IMG_20210228_165337.jpg

How did you cut it?

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amh
4 hours ago, Fusca said:

Here is the first of 2 surgeries performed in an attempt to save some palms.  This was result of my smallest mule - 6-7' overall height.  Treated with Daconil fungicide and covered to keep dry as we got rain last night.  Did the same to a 3-4' Copernicia prunifera.  Now we wait...

Hopefully everything survives.

I have a question, has Daconil and other chlorothalonil fungicides been difficult to buy in San Antonio lately?

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Collectorpalms
8 hours ago, oliver said:

Brownsville definitely did not see 22. The upper valley is significantly cooler than Brownsville. The temperature reading for reporting is usually done from the airport in Brownsville which does generally get a little cooler since it is in the middle of a big field with no water anywhere near by. My house is a tall 2 story house which shields my backyard from north wind and my backyard contains a large pool and pond, and backs onto a flowing waterway. I have 2 different temperature probes in the backyard and a handheld with which I checked every few hours those days. All thermometers were in a agreement and the temp did not go below 27 in my backyard. I suspect most of the sheltered areas next to water in Brownsville were similar. It is possible that the north facing exposed areas went to 26. I was constantly keeping an eye on the weather and the online/tv temp in Brownsville never went below 26.

Again, The facts are that all of the official Weather sites in the RGV saw 22F ( the sites that help compare this freeze with previous freezes historically. ) 

Here is the official data from Brownsville that should be trusted over backyard thermometers. This was an advective event and on the first big push of cold air there was very little to nil help from microclimate. It was 23F offshore in the Gulf of Mexico.
 

Again 22F.

9B168F5B-C45E-4C0B-8494-BD064268F551.jpeg

Edited by Collectorpalms
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Collectorpalms

AC58BA5B-7F7F-4E3F-B8A4-DBE98616222E.jpeg

C976038C-FF4E-458E-AA10-595BEF66A6B7.jpeg

56D79928-83BF-4220-9C1D-397AE23C12B7.jpeg

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Xenon

KBRO (Brownsville Airport) went offline during the coldest stretch due to power outage. That 22F reading was likely adopted from the McAllen airport (it was missing from KBRO data in the days after the freeze). The wunderground station in Brownsville that stayed online recorded a low of 24.3F with only 2 hours below 26F. This is also consistent with damage reports being less severe in Brownsville vs McAllen Area. 

Edited by Xenon
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AnTonY

@ahosey01

@Silas_Sancona

The similarities evoked between lower AZ, California, and South Florida illustrate a point I was trying to get at. Despite South Florida obviously being more humid and wet than the aforementioned locations, these locations all play out similarly w/ regards to the consistent dryness that tends to be associated with their cold snaps.  Same thing with Houston compared to Amarillo, Del Rio, and San Antonio - the latter three cities are quite drier than Houston in climate, but all these Texas cities experienced the combination of cold w/ winter precip during this recent event. Which means that upper-level signatures, and resulting interaction with geography, control how the weather event ends up playing out.

The "wet" freezes of Texas are basically from shallow cold airmasses.  For example, as the airmass was starting to move into Texas the week before the big freeze, the depth at many points was not even up to ~950mb (2000ft). The upper-level trough that brought the coldest air wasn't even that strong w/ really cold heights aloft, and even after it moved through, the depth of the cold air only went up to ~850mb (5000ft).

The shallow cold happens when there's a strong upper level low hanging around the Montana/Manitoba region. The air moves, but is blocked by the Rockies from overtaking the Intermountain lands. The air then has nowhere else to go but southward towards Texas/Gulf states, and peculiarities with the upper level patterns control whether the movement is slow and oozing, or a rapid "blue norther" swing.  The cold air moves into place, but because it is so shallow, the upper-level flow remains unchanged (i.e. 500mb heights still zonal) - therefore, any little disturbance riding the 500mb flow aloft can produce waves of wintry conditions, be it dank overcast, cold rain, and even the snow/ice as seen the past event. This is the "overrunning" pattern, so called cold-air damming (CAD) from the Rockies, as any antecedent warm, moist air is displaced up by the cold air dome - that accelerates the cooling, which really wrings out severe winter weather from disturbances that otherwise would have produced fair cirrus and other such innocuous weather (the colder air increases the relative saturation of the antecedent warm airmass that stuff precipitates out).

Lower AZ and California is protected from these shallow airmasses due to the mountain barriers that they have. Any airmass that makes it to those places is either sufficiently deep, or bleeds through the passes - and even then, there's plenty of compressional warming that nullifies the severity. And, with Florida, the jet stream pattern has been protecting them quite often in creating a high pressure tendency around the Bahamas, deflecting most of the low pressure systems (and their attendant cold fronts) to the northeast - to get the winter weather (i.e. snow in Miami), you need strong polar vortex around Montreal, which sends a strong cold air pulse down the Appalachians into Florida, allowing the upper-levels to then do the work.

 

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AnTonY

@Xenon

@philinsydney

Yes, it hurts to see such hard work with tall washingtonia put to jeopardy in literally just two days of cold enough temps. Hope and pray that all of them have hidden green liveliness hidden in all that overlying damage - same goes for all the plants in Houston/Texas.

I've formed a theory, though, that so-called desert palms like those washingtonia, as well as CIDP can really skyrocket their growth in short time provided that there is ample water. If someone planted a CIDP or washingtonia by seed in Houston to replace the damage, I'm very interesting in seeing how fast it shoots up with the rainfall and humidity.

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Collectorpalms
29 minutes ago, Xenon said:

KBRO (Brownsville Airport) went offline during the coldest stretch due to power outage. That 22F reading was likely adopted from the McAllen airport (it was missing from KBRO data in the days after the freeze). The wunderground station in Brownsville that stayed online recorded a low of 24.3F with only 2 hours below 26F. This is also consistent with damage reports being less severe in Brownsville vs McAllen Area. 

That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard in my life. I have a previous co-worker at the NWS in Brownsville. That is 100% incorrect to " adopt" a random temperature, no matter what the situation is. the weather underground is not an official weather site. So now we are going to 22F to 27F. 

I want to know the name of the official who stated that BS.

Edited by Collectorpalms
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Xenon
13 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

That is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard in my life. I have a previous co-worker at the NWS in Brownsville. That is 100% incorrect to " adopt" a random temperature, no matter what the situation is. the weather underground is not an official weather site. So now we are going to 22F to 27F. 

I want to know the name of the official who stated that BS.

KBRO wasn't reporting the morning of the 15th. That 22F reading wasn't on the NWS observations page nor was it in the historical data for KBRO the day after.  

Edited by Xenon
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oliver

I will let you weather guys argue as much as you want, but there was no frost on my grass, the water in my rainwater collection tubs had no ice, and not a single temperature reading ever recorded less than 25 for Brownsville. Mr. Collectorpalms, maybe you can access the broadcast records on TV or online for Brownsville. Would like to see where the current temp read below 25. Anyway, we have bright green Sabals, Queens, and Washington's. No damage whatsoever to the agave plants which were melted to the ground in Kingsville north. My handheld thermometers btw are LUFT $200 units which I calibrate every year, and I suspect are more accurate than the government issue stuff at the local weather station 

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