Palmageddon Aftermath Photo Thread

[amh]

12 hours ago, philinsydney said:

Anyone seen any eucalypts after the freeze?

I dont think eucalyptus are very popular in Texas, but I'm just as curious of the freeze effects.

[Xenon]

5 minutes ago, amh said:

I dont think eucalyptus are very popular in Texas, but I'm just as curious of the freeze effects.

Huge easily 100+ footers (Eucalyptus camaldulensis hybrids) around the major Beltway 8/I-45 S interchange in Houston. They line a stretch of road at the Intercontinental Airport too. 

I'm super afraid they might have frozen completely to the ground. Would be a big safety hazard too. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Xenon

[Xenon]

Note all of the tall spindly Eucalyptus behind the robusta 

[MesquiteRetreat]

The videos by Jeff Anderson were VERY helpful for this novice! He may be in New Mexico, but he still answered a lot of questions for me. Thanks for posting!

[JohnAndSancho]

7 hours ago, Xenon said:

Note all of the tall spindly Eucalyptus behind the robusta 

Maaaaaan I haven't been to the south side in years. This gif makes me wanna listen to Fat Pat. 

[oliver]

I have 2 fairly large ones in my yard and there are some giant eucalyptus around Brownsville. So far they have brown leaves. I suspect they will be OK. They take cold into the low 20's in California all the time.

 

[necturus]

I am also worried about the Eucalypts at the 610/59 interchange. I drove past last weekend, and they looked bad. The city is probably going to regret that choice.

Pretty sure my Lemon eucalyptus is dead, but I'll give a little longer before taking the machete or chainsaw to it. At least it'll provide some nice pieces of wood. Not sure if I'll let it come back from the lignotuber.

[Collectorpalms]

1 hour ago, necturus said:

I am also worried about the Eucalypts at the 610/59 interchange. I drove past last weekend, and they looked bad. The city is probably going to regret that choice.

Pretty sure my Lemon eucalyptus is dead, but I'll give a little longer before taking the machete or chainsaw to it. At least it'll provide some nice pieces of wood. Not sure if I'll let it come back from the lignotuber.

I do not know the species, but after growing a few, I am thinking they will be killed or killed to the ground. Same for the oleander, I wonder what percentage of the Washingtonia survive. That area saw around middle teens, most Washingtonia Hybrids have a Good chance. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Xenon]

1 hour ago, necturus said:

I am also worried about the Eucalypts at the 610/59 interchange. I drove past last weekend, and they looked bad. The city is probably going to regret that choice.

These ones? They are about a half mile from 59 S/610 interchange.  TAMU on Pelican Island by Galveston has a ton of Eucalyptus too.

[Xenon]

As far as oleander, all of the dwarf forms/new hybrids are torched. There was an "old form" (the large robust form) in town that just had slight tip damage, no woody dieback at all. 

[Collectorpalms]

10 minutes ago, Xenon said:

As far as oleander, all of the dwarf forms/new hybrids are torched. There was an "old form" (the large robust form) in town that just had slight tip damage, no woody dieback at all. 

The dwarfs always came back like Gangbusters. The bigger older ones always languished eventually and died out 1 by 1. There are some of those on the A&M campus. I like the dwarf as they flower all season long. The “hardy red and pink” would only flower in the spring. 

[necturus]

I had a brain fart. I meant 59/Beltway 8. I live near that Chevron - it'll be interesting to see how they do since they're on the south side of that apartment.

There are also some big Eucalypts on Stella Link near W. Bellfort by a soccer field. I don't know what species and have always found them fascinating because their trunks are much larger than the ones planted by the interchanges. At least one of them got damaged some years ago and has grown in a funky way since then. I'll take a closer look next time I drive by them.

There are a lot of Eucalypts that have been trialed throughout the south and show hardiness into the teens or even single digits. I don't know if they could withstand a long duration freeze like that or if they can take our hot, humid summers. I think the best way to go for a Eucalyptus lover here is a short species with a lignotuber that can come back from a bad freeze and not be too difficult to remove.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

Has anyone looked at this washy in Waco, I hope it's not dead:

[Fusca]

7 minutes ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Has anyone looked at this washy in Waco, I hope it's not dead:

It looks like a robusta.  Doubtful that it survived if not protected.  @jimmyt might know its condition.

[Collectorpalms]

19 minutes ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Has anyone looked at this washy in Waco, I hope it's not dead:

From 2 years ago. Looks thicker trunked than the above picture.

 

For insurance purposes, I would think it’s a goner soon.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Jcalvin]

On 3/1/2021 at 8:35 PM, AnTonY said:

@ahosey01

@Silas_Sancona

The similarities evoked between lower AZ, California, and South Florida illustrate a point I was trying to get at. Despite South Florida obviously being more humid and wet than the aforementioned locations, these locations all play out similarly w/ regards to the consistent dryness that tends to be associated with their cold snaps.  Same thing with Houston compared to Amarillo, Del Rio, and San Antonio - the latter three cities are quite drier than Houston in climate, but all these Texas cities experienced the combination of cold w/ winter precip during this recent event. Which means that upper-level signatures, and resulting interaction with geography, control how the weather event ends up playing out.

The "wet" freezes of Texas are basically from shallow cold airmasses.  For example, as the airmass was starting to move into Texas the week before the big freeze, the depth at many points was not even up to ~950mb (2000ft). The upper-level trough that brought the coldest air wasn't even that strong w/ really cold heights aloft, and even after it moved through, the depth of the cold air only went up to ~850mb (5000ft).

The shallow cold happens when there's a strong upper level low hanging around the Montana/Manitoba region. The air moves, but is blocked by the Rockies from overtaking the Intermountain lands. The air then has nowhere else to go but southward towards Texas/Gulf states, and peculiarities with the upper level patterns control whether the movement is slow and oozing, or a rapid "blue norther" swing.  The cold air moves into place, but because it is so shallow, the upper-level flow remains unchanged (i.e. 500mb heights still zonal) - therefore, any little disturbance riding the 500mb flow aloft can produce waves of wintry conditions, be it dank overcast, cold rain, and even the snow/ice as seen the past event. This is the "overrunning" pattern, so called cold-air damming (CAD) from the Rockies, as any antecedent warm, moist air is displaced up by the cold air dome - that accelerates the cooling, which really wrings out severe winter weather from disturbances that otherwise would have produced fair cirrus and other such innocuous weather (the colder air increases the relative saturation of the antecedent warm airmass that stuff precipitates out).

Lower AZ and California is protected from these shallow airmasses due to the mountain barriers that they have. Any airmass that makes it to those places is either sufficiently deep, or bleeds through the passes - and even then, there's plenty of compressional warming that nullifies the severity. And, with Florida, the jet stream pattern has been protecting them quite often in creating a high pressure tendency around the Bahamas, deflecting most of the low pressure systems (and their attendant cold fronts) to the northeast - to get the winter weather (i.e. snow in Miami), you need strong polar vortex around Montreal, which sends a strong cold air pulse down the Appalachians into Florida, allowing the upper-levels to then do the work.

 

How far north do you believe the jet stream pushes these low pressure systems? 
 

Being a plan but myself, I’ve watched weather patterns for 15 years now here in SE Georgia. I can’t count the number of times I see a cold front coming from Texas/Louisiana, but it seems like the jet stream pushes most of them northerly, even being in Georgia. I’ve watched them make it to the panhandle and then get pushes towards middle Georgia (Macon and Augusta) and Savannah at times. Seems like I’m in a little cubby here, like most of northern Florida. 

[NBTX11]

35 minutes ago, Jcalvin said:

 

Being a plan but myself, I’ve watched weather patterns for 15 years now here in SE Georgia. I can’t count the number of times I see a cold front coming from Texas/Louisiana, but it seems like the jet stream pushes most of them northerly, even being in Georgia. 

And I’ve been following weather patterns for 15 years and I can’t count the number of times where there was a ridge over Texas and all the cold poured into the Southeastern US instead. Stuff like it’s 80 in San Antonio at the same time it’s 35 or 40 in Georgia or Carolinas.  Yeah it happens. All the time. Cold don’t automatically go straight into Texas first, if there is a ridge in Texas in the jet stream. 

[Jcalvin]

1 minute ago, NBTX11 said:

And I’ve been following weather patterns for 15 years and I can’t count the number of times where there was a ridge over Texas and all the cold poured into the Southeastern US instead. Stuff like it’s 80 in San Antonio at the same time it’s 35 or 40 in Georgia or Carolinas.  Yeah it happens. All the time. Cold don’t automatically go straight into Texas first, if there is a ridge in Texas in the jet stream. 

We’ve already attempted this discussion once before and it was fruitless. It becomes dramatic, and, frankly, I’d just rather avoid it with you. 

[NBTX11]

1 minute ago, Jcalvin said:

We’ve already attempted this discussion once before and it was fruitless. It becomes dramatic, and, frankly, I’d just rather avoid it with you. 

That’s fine. I’m good with that. We each have our own opinions fair enough 

[Jcalvin]

13 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

That’s fine. I’m good with that. We each have our own opinions fair enough 

Just for clarification: I’m not saying we never get into the teens here or don’t ever get as cold as some of the cities in southern Texas got last month. I’m just saying I believe the jet stream coming from the gulf pushes the artic air just north of us. If it wasn’t for that, SE Georgia might be as cold as middle and north Georgia. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Jcalvin

[PricklyPearSATC]

1 hour ago, Jcalvin said:

Just for clarification: I’m not saying we never get into the teens here or don’t ever get as cold as some of the cities in southern Texas got last month. I’m just saying I believe the jet stream coming from the gulf pushes the artic air just north of us. If it wasn’t for that, SE Georgia might be as cold as middle and north Georgia. 

 

There was a high pressure over Florida two weeks ago.  It's not unusual for Florida to get cold if the southern part of Texas gets cold.  It depends on various factors.  Of course the Florida Peninsula doesn't get much cold because it is surrounded by water.  When the 1986 SS Challenger exploded is took off at 11:30 am with temps at 28 degrees.  It was in the teens the night before. 

Agree that CA and AZ rarely get our type of weather because they are west of the Rockies.   Tallahassee has winters about the same as San Antonio.  Both San Antonio and Tallahassee had record cold in 1899, 1983 and 1989

Edited March 5, 2021 by PricklyPearSATC

[NBTX11]

1 hour ago, Jcalvin said:

Just for clarification: I’m not saying we never get into the teens here or don’t ever get as cold as some of the cities in southern Texas got last month. I’m just saying I believe the jet stream coming from the gulf pushes the artic air just north of us. If it wasn’t for that, SE Georgia might be as cold as middle and north Georgia. 

Yes that does happen sometimes. Agreed. 

[NBTX11]

19 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

 

There was a high pressure over Florida two weeks ago.  It's not unusual for Florida to get cold if the southern part of Texas gets cold.  It depends on various factors.  Of course the Florida Peninsula doesn't get much cold because it is surrounded by water.  When the 1986 SS Challenger exploded is took off at 11:30 am with temps at 28 degrees.  It was in the teens the night before. 

Agree that CA and AZ rarely get our type of weather because they are west of the Rockies.   Tallahassee has winters about the same as San Antonio.  Both San Antonio and Tallahassee had record cold in 1899, 1983 and 1989

Tallahassee has actually gotten colder than SA, but yeah, San Antonio is very similar to the Florida panhandle both as far as temperatures and what can be grown. 

[AnTonY]

3 hours ago, Jcalvin said:

How far north do you believe the jet stream pushes these low pressure systems? 
 

Being a plan but myself, I’ve watched weather patterns for 15 years now here in SE Georgia. I can’t count the number of times I see a cold front coming from Texas/Louisiana, but it seems like the jet stream pushes most of them northerly, even being in Georgia. I’ve watched them make it to the panhandle and then get pushes towards middle Georgia (Macon and Augusta) and Savannah at times. Seems like I’m in a little cubby here, like most of northern Florida. 

 

2 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

And I’ve been following weather patterns for 15 years and I can’t count the number of times where there was a ridge over Texas and all the cold poured into the Southeastern US instead. Stuff like it’s 80 in San Antonio at the same time it’s 35 or 40 in Georgia or Carolinas.  Yeah it happens. All the time. Cold don’t automatically go straight into Texas first, if there is a ridge in Texas in the jet stream. 

AMO and PDO.

[Jcalvin]

43 minutes ago, AnTonY said:

 

AMO and PDO.

?

[Collectorpalms]

6 minutes ago, Jcalvin said:

?

AMO:

https://climatedataguide.ucar.edu/climate-data/atlantic-multi-decadal-oscillation-amo

PDO: 

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/teleconnections/pdo/

 

[TonyDFW]

9F752F06-B45F-4473-B929-4EB5E40DCF02.webp

[TonyDFW]

With our continued warm temps many plants that were green in the first week after the freeze are now  turning brown in Dallas.

[Meangreen94z]

What kind of agave is in your first picture? Shows minimal damage. 

[Fusca]

31 minutes ago, Meangreen94z said:

What kind of agave is in your first picture? Shows minimal damage. 

Good question.  I think they are Agave parryi, but whatever they are they should be planted more!

[Collectorpalms]

Let’s hope your Washingtonia filifera and windmills make it in DFW. This is concerning. I feel for my garden but hate to think I won’t see many palms driving around or posted online is depressing. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Meangreen94z]

42 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Good question.  I think they are Agave parryi, but whatever they are they should be planted more!

I think the others are Agave Ovatifolia, which is bullet proof. Mine had minimal tip burn with 2 nights of 4*F. But the first agave he posted looks like Americana but shows no damage. Which unless he dug it up and brought it inside can’t be.
 

**Upon further inspection It looks like a form of Asperimma, which for negative temperatures is still very impressive.

[ahosey01]

Anybody have anything to report about any Guihaia argyrata in Texas? Curious...

[Collectorpalms]

11 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

Anybody have anything to report about any Guihaia argyrata in Texas? Curious...

I think there is/was one at Zilker Gardens in Austin. I recall after 2011 that killed the queens and a lot of W. robusta north of town, that palm looked untouched.

[Swolte]

36 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

Anybody have anything to report about any Guihaia argyrata in Texas? Curious...

TCHP mentioned somewhere they were fine. I am not sure they were protected or not but I presume they looked better than some other palms in similar situations. Hope he can chime in with more details as I am also interested. 

[NBTX11]

Starting to get concerned about my W. Robusta.  I see zero green on any palm.  One has almost complete crown collapse with like 1 or 2 upright fronds, and another has partial crown collapse, with a handful of upright fronds that are brown.  All are totally brown, including spear.  W. Filifera center spears are green and growing.  Central spears look healthy.  I can't take this, I want to see either green or to know it's dead, I don't want to sit here and wait 3 months.   

[NBTX11]

Filifera, nice green and growing. 

[NBTX11]

Green Filifera 

[NBTX11]

Robusta looking bad zero green yet. 

[amh]

11 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Starting to get concerned about my W. Robusta.  I see zero green on any palm.  One has almost complete crown collapse with like 1 or 2 upright fronds, and another has partial crown collapse, with a handful of upright fronds that are brown.  All are totally brown, including spear.  W. Filifera center spears are green and growing.  Central spears look healthy.  I can't take this, I want to see either green or to know it's dead, I don't want to sit here and wait 3 months.   

Give them some fertilizer and time. Next week should be warmer and once the sunny conditions return, hopefully they will show signs of life.