Palmageddon Aftermath Photo Thread

[ahosey01]

3 minutes ago, Teegurr said:

Ok ok, so now you know what it feels like. But yeah, if we can all agree to calm down, no one needs to be banned. But we really need to tone it down here.

This is the Texas palmageddon photo thread.  It cannot be hijacked!

[PricklyPearSATC]

10 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Before and after photos of the juvenile Bismarckia nobilis at UltraVision off I-10 (Exit 555 - Dominion Exit) in NW Bexar County, Texas.  They wrapped it pretty good during the recent freeze event.  Fronds still showing a lot of silver and stiff petioles.  No spear pull, and spear still stiff.  Mostly burns on the edges of the fronds.  I am optimistic that it will make it.

Mid-January 2021:

Late February 2021:

I think my Livistona looks better.....spear has not pulled, but I'm seeing damage to the spear frond, so I don't know if the plant will push it all the way out.  Usually there are two spears going on the the Livistona, but after the storm, there does not appear to be new growth.  I'm waiting for the spear to grow out, but so far it seems to be sitting there.  We will see. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by PricklyPearSATC

[ahosey01]

4 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

I think my Livistona looks better.....spear has not pulled, but I'm seeing damage to the spear frond, so I don't know if the plant will push it all the way out.  Usually there are two spears going on the the Livistona, but after the storm, there does not appear to be new growth.  I'm waiting for the spear to grow out, but so far it seems to be sitting there.  We will see. 

Livistona what?

[PricklyPearSATC]

6 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

Livistona what?

Chinensis?? (Embarrassed that I always get the Chinensis part messed up)

Edited March 3, 2021 by PricklyPearSATC

[Xenon]

Several trunking and completely unprotected Bismarckia in West Houston actually look better than that after 11-12F. I'm going to go guerilla mark the spears this weekend, will be an absolute miracle if they survive. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Xenon

[NBTX11]

3 hours ago, Ivanos1982 said:

My mom still lives in West El Paso and she has two robustas that are very tall and three filibustas. All made it fine after the 2011 freeze. The crown completely collapsed like I see many palms now here in Houston. But they slowly grew leaf by leaf through the summer. She even has a chamaedorea radicallis that I planted for her in 2010 and it's still alive... barely making it the poor thing but it's there. It's sheltered on a corner. Many other robustas around the city did not make it though. There was even an article in the El Paso Times about how "palm trees dont want to live here". it was so dumb... it made the city not use palm trees in landscaping after that article. Some of those robustas bent at the stem it was surreal. Others fell on top of homes and cars. It was a palmageddon lol but many survived. Filiferas were untouched. The city had six huge ones at the central Lagartos plaza but removed them and planted trees.

Thanks for the info, this was helpful.  I am hopeful a lot of our tall Robusta will eventually recover.

[necturus]

Here's the local ones.

I think I may have a Bizzie survivor in the yard... probably because I banked soil around the base of the palm. Wish I had done more of this.  Once I get more confident in its survival I'll share pictures.

[jwitt]

3 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Yes, but how bad were these palms looking after the freeze, and did any of them have crown collapse.  Were there crowns intact.

Pics from right after the event showed most robustas with crown collapse. No survivors were expected during the time.

[jwitt]

3 hours ago, AnTonY said:

Interesting. I know many on here say that the "dry climate" and such is much better than the "wet cold." But, I do recall many sources regarding the event that stated the presence of snow and ice in El Paso - not sure about Las Cruces (the NWS data for the snow day was letter "M" for missing). Not only subzero in some of those areas, but highs for quite a few days didn't even get above 20°F! Quite a feat in that area!

Anyways. As you say, there was high variability, even amongst the same species. I guess we won't really know the full tallies until later this summer. Hopefully people don't act prematurely...

I used high variability wrong. Unwatered robustas were the ones that perished, mostly.  That region got like a fraction of a inch of precip through the whole spring and summer.

Also phoenix c. Survival was near 100% and can be proven using Google street view.

Not mentioned in that event was the freezing rain and about a foot of snow!

Dry climate in this region=sunshine/Moist climate=clouds and slow rebound to normal temps. That is the key difference. 

[jwitt]

3 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

I just want to green poking from my Washingtonia Robustas.  When am I gonna see that?

A 30' hybrid a couple miles from my house did not show any green until the week of July 4, 2011 after seeing -10f.  That same palm became the first known Washingtonia to seed in the ABQ metro in 2020! 

 

How's that for hopium?

[jwitt]

4 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Yes, but how bad were these palms looking after the freeze, and did any of them have crown collapse.  Were there crowns intact.

Collapsed crowns.  Remember they saw temperatures like 15-20f colder than you just saw.  Survivors were not expected at the time as palms of these type had not been documented to have ever survived these type of temperatures.

 

I'll recap

Many specimens survived:

Filifera= -11f

Phx. C. =-11f

Robustas= -5f

Phx D. -5f

 

[PALM MOD]

15 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

@PALM MOD can you do something about this guy so that we can have this thread back?

It took a lot of work to clean this up. Usually I would just delete the entire topic, and suspend everyone who participated in the inappropriate conduct. 

But this was an important event, and a lot of important info would have been lost.

So, one more chance for everyone. First, remember that this is an International forum, sponsored by the International Palm Society. Many countries, cultures, and languages are represented and tolerated here. And second, don't escalate the rhetoric. Just report it to me. 

[AnTonY]

51 minutes ago, jwitt said:

I used high variability wrong. Unwatered robustas were the ones that perished, mostly.  That region got like a fraction of a inch of precip through the whole spring and summer.

Also phoenix c. Survival was near 100% and can be proven using Google street view.

Not mentioned in that event was the freezing rain and about a foot of snow!

Interesting.

51 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Dry climate in this region=sunshine/Moist climate=clouds and slow rebound to normal temps. That is the key difference. 

Yes. And this is about the time period immediately concerning the freeze, correct? Or does it also include spring, summer, etc?

Edited March 3, 2021 by AnTonY

[PricklyPearSATC]

Some guy in San Antonio spray painted his Sago palms green!

[amh]

1 hour ago, jwitt said:

Collapsed crowns.  Remember they saw temperatures like 15-20f colder than you just saw.  Survivors were not expected at the time as palms of these type had not been documented to have ever survived these type of temperatures.

 

I'll recap

Many specimens survived:

Filifera= -11f

Phx. C. =-11f

Robustas= -5f

Phx D. -5f

 

This gives me great hope, every washingtonia in my area is fried, so hopefully they will survive.

[amh]

36 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

Some guy in San Antonio spray painted his Sago palms green!

From what I am seeing, that might not be a bad idea.

[jwitt]

4 hours ago, AnTonY said:

Interesting.

Yes. And this is about the time period immediately concerning the freeze, correct? Or does it also include spring, summer, etc?

The recovery about the unwatered robustas also concerns spring/summer as no precipitation happened naturally that spring/summer, thus hampering recovery of unwatered palms. If memory serves correct, the region went something like 9 months with like less than .20" of precipitation!

 

Also want to be clear, I am in the ABQ area and want to be clear that robusta and phoenix palms are not doable here without protection. They are grown unprotected in the El Paso region unprotected and saw the temperatures I stated. 

One overlooked fact about that event: yes El Paso saw 0f plus or minus a degree or two. What is seldom mentioned is they also saw a low of 3f and then 7f. So actually 3 nights with 2 at or near zero. Sometimes I just focus on the ultimate low. Also 2 days with highs in the teens.

The filifera I post about in Corrales that survived 2 nights of -11f in 2/2011 also saw -1f in 12/2011. They survived then and today unprotected! 

 

[NBTX11]

3 hours ago, jwitt said:

The recovery about the unwatered robustas also concerns spring/summer as no precipitation happened naturally that spring/summer, thus hampering recovery of unwatered palms. If memory serves correct, the region went something like 9 months with like less than .20" of precipitation!

 

Also want to be clear, I am in the ABQ area and want to be clear that robusta and phoenix palms are not doable here without protection. They are grown unprotected in the El Paso region unprotected and saw the temperatures I stated. 

One overlooked fact about that event: yes El Paso saw 0f plus or minus a degree or two. What is seldom mentioned is they also saw a low of 3f and then 7f. So actually 3 nights with 2 at or near zero. Sometimes I just focus on the ultimate low. Also 2 days with highs in the teens.

The filifera I post about in Corrales that survived 2 nights of -11f in 2/2011 also saw -1f in 12/2011. They survived then and today unprotected! 

 

We saw 9 and 13. It was enough to collapse a lot of the Robusta crowns. Filifera crowns are intact. 

[jwitt]

38 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

We saw 9 and 13. It was enough to collapse a lot of the Robusta crowns. Filifera crowns are intact. 

Same with the robustas in 2011 in this region. Filifera crowns here also did not collapse, but there was no green visible either until the spears started growing.

So knowing that, we know a lot of robustas can survive collapsed crowns. Hopefully that is the case in your area. 

[Collectorpalms]

Precious things that I covered really well that initially looked good, are now starting to look iffy. That's a bummer. I have a jubaea x Butia f1 that I left to the weather gods as I thought this to be the most cold hardy pinnate palm. Its spear is brown, but leaves don't look bad enough to cut off, there is some green on leaves ( about 30%). If it survives this would have to be the hardiest pinnate palm in my book ( i cannot grow pure jubaea here) . I have a feeling the crown will need nursing.

 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Ivanos1982]

This is the Chamaedorea Radicalis my mom has in El Paso TX. She took that pic five days ago. They also had snow but temps didnt go as low as Dallas. Before I planted this chamaedorea here it was in a pot outside in a balcony. This little plant survived the 2011 freeze in a small pot on a balcony... now when I asked her about it she forgot the plant existed as she doesnt really do anything to her garden until spring. She never waters it, gets water from the air conditioner outlet next to it in the summer. I think this little palm is a survivor. We should consider growing it more all over Texas. 

[Ivanos1982]

11 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Thanks for the info, this was helpful.  I am hopeful a lot of our tall Robusta will eventually recover.

Sure thing, I would ask my mom to take pictures of them but right now they look as fried as all the pictures everyone's posting so what's the point... also that happens to those palms every winter in El Paso, people just wait for them to come back and whatver doesn't make it after spring just gets removed. I posted here a while ago pictures of a Jubaea in El Paso that made it through the 2011 frost. I had another account but couldn't even remember my sign in info lol... I just never checked it. I haven't gone to that house to check if it is there still. Next time I go to El Paso I will drive by again and take a picture. It feels invasive to be taking pics of people's plants so I have to be very discrete. I now live in Houston and I have some queens, the spears have not pulled, the leaves are brown but the petioles are green. I marked the spear with a sharpie and it is moving... I covered them though. They are small queens so if they make it I guess it's cheating. The robustas in El Paso though are huge, we never covered those or the chamaedorea.

[jwitt]

59 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Precious things that I covered really well that initially looked good, are now starting to look iffy. That's a bummer. I have a jubaea x Butia f1 that I left to the weather gods as I thought this to be the most cold hardy pinnate palm. Its spear is brown, but leaves don't look bad enough to cut off, there is some green on leaves ( about 30%). If it survives this would have to be the hardiest pinnate palm in my book ( i cannot grow pure jubaea here) . I have a feeling the crown will need nursing.

 

I always wondered if a plate of glass over a palm(or stump) would somewhat make a "wetter" locale more like a "dry". The benefits would be:

1- no rain on the crown. Your dashboard may get dusty.

2. Increased greater diurnal temps as the daytime would be higher. Think of your dash in the sun.

3. Reduction of humidity during the daytime due to warmer air absorbing more moisture. Dash cracks!

Unleaded glass preferred

 

I wish you the best.  

Edited March 3, 2021 by jwitt

[Collectorpalms]

Some green now pushing on ( only 2 out of many) Washingtonia that was unprotected.  These benefited for being in the most wind and ice protected spot in south facing yard. ( thanks to a now half fried southern live oak) Green on mystery hybrid ( I found at a nursery that slipped in by accident so it could be anything) more like a Queen than butia ( trunk wrapped) , and jubaeaxbutia, and Cham Cerifera, Sabal Louisiana (all non protected) looks untouched. Brahea Armata not good. Many days below 32f with a low of 5F at airport. 6-8 inches snow and 1/4 inch ice storm. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[Reyes Vargas]

Here are a few before and after of my Phoenix hybrid.  They look a little toasty if you ask me.

Before

After

Before

After

Before

After

Before

After

They all still have green centers so will recover.  It's just going to take years though since these grow so slow.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Reyes Vargas
Misspelled word

[Xenon]

15 minutes ago, Reyes Vargas said:

 

They all still have green centers so will recover.  It's just going to take years though since these grow so slow.

More water! Flood them if you're able to. Your Livistona chinensis should be 10x bigger if it's any indication. That Washingtonia looks super thirsty too. Lots of stuff in the Valley would grow much faster if there was regular irrigation. 

[amh]

I know they're not palms, but does anyone know the status of the San Antonio area changsha tangerines? Especially Malcolm Becks old orchard?

[Reyes Vargas]

2 minutes ago, Xenon said:

More water! Flood them if you're able to. Your Livistona chinensis should be 10x bigger if it's any indication. That Washingtonia looks super thirsty too. Lots of stuff in the Valley would grow much faster if there was regular irrigation. 

You have a good point there.  I do have the ability to flood the area and will do that as well as give them some palm food.  Hopefully that will get them to grow faster.

[PricklyPearSATC]

1 hour ago, Collectorpalms said:

Some green now pushing on ( only 2 out of many) Washingtonia that was unprotected.  These benefited for being in the most wind and ice protected spot in south facing yard. ( thanks to a now half fried southern live oak) Green on mystery hybrid ( I found at a nursery that slipped in by accident so it could be anything) more like a Queen than butia ( trunk wrapped) , and jubaeaxbutia, and Cham Cerifera, Sabal Louisiana (all non protected) looks untouched. Brahea Armata not good. Many days below 32f with a low of 5F at airport. 6-8 inches snow and 1/4 inch ice storm. 

Your med fan palm looks really good!  Mine are toast.  (But mine might be a cultural thing too..one was a pup..the other was planted weird)  They are wimpy (about 1 gallon size) without much internal growth...

[NBTX11]

My Filifera are pushing nice green fronds already. My Robusta are too tall to see what is going on. It’s impossible to inspect the crown without a 30 or 40 foot ladder. So I guess I will just have to hope for recovery 

[AnTonY]

19 hours ago, Xenon said:

Several trunking and completely unprotected Bismarckia in West Houston actually look better than that after 11-12F. I'm going to go guerilla mark the spears this weekend, will be an absolute miracle if they survive. 

Unsung heroes in the making?

[NBTX11]

4 hours ago, amh said:

I know they're not palms, but does anyone know the status of the San Antonio area changsha tangerines? Especially Malcolm Becks old orchard?

Don't know, but all the citrus I have seen look terrible.  Like Satsuma Mandarins trees and stuff like that.  Nuked.

[amh]

4 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Don't know, but all the citrus I have seen look terrible.  Like Satsuma Mandarins trees and stuff like that.  Nuked.

That's what I'm afraid of, but most of the chansha and Malcolm's trees were seed grown, so they could come back from the roots.

[Sabal_Louisiana]

My Filifera are pushing nice green fronds already. My Robusta are too tall to see what is going on. It’s impossible to inspect the crown without a 30 or 40 foot ladder. So I guess I will just have to hope for recovery.

Do you have a pair of binoculars? With warm weather following a hard freeze, look for green emerging from the tip of the crownshaft within 2 weeks, maybe longer on some.

Some you can tell by their form, just won't make it.

 

[PricklyPearSATC]

1 hour ago, amh said:

That's what I'm afraid of, but most of the chansha and Malcolm's trees were seed grown, so they could come back from the roots.

Won't know for awhile.  I was not even aware of these seed grown mandarins in SA.  Apparently Arctic Frost, which has been on the market since around 2016 is not grafted.  It is sport of chansha.  Propagated via cuttings.  Dr. Moy tweaked chansha a bit and it has less seeds than seed grown. 

[amh]

6 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

Won't know for awhile.  I was not even aware of these seed grown mandarins in SA.  Apparently Arctic Frost, which has been on the market since around 2016 is not grafted.  It is sport of chansha.  Propagated via cuttings.  Dr. Moy tweaked chansha a bit and it has less seeds than seed grown. 

The changsha have fallen out of favor in the area, but I believe they will tolerate 10F or lower. I dont mind seeds in my citrus, in fact the really seedy fruit usually taste best.

The latest google earth images show the orchard was present as of the end of 2019, but hopefully the trees survived.

[PricklyPearSATC]

Helpful post freeze videos from Las Cruces, New Mexico, 2011..  -5F

 

 

 

[Meangreen94z]

I must have missed the excitement?

[Xenon]

Ughhh why did the freeze have to come right after they lined the whole place with royals!!! Please let them survive and not let them be replaced with queens or dates lol 

 

They look fried in recent vids but the crowns and petioles are upright and not collapsed 

[philinsydney]

Anyone seen any eucalypts after the freeze?