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Palmageddon Aftermath Photo Thread


ahosey01

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9 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Yes massive die off in Katy Area. Half or more of the robusta and chinensis that initially pushed are now dead. Nearly all of the Phoenix dactyfilera are dead despite initially throwing several leaves. 

Two 20 year old chinensis in the yard initially pushed. One is looking great and has several full sized leaves and the other rolled over 2 months ago and had tons of trunk bleeding. 

What gives? Did drier parts of the state have the same issue? 

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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On 11/3/2021 at 9:38 PM, Xenon said:

Update on west side and heading into town. Survival rate inside the black circle is halved while east of the blue line towards town remains about the same. The area in between is transitional. 

It almost feels like an entire USDA zone jump within 10 miles heading into town on I-10 imo.  610 around Uptown and Bellaire looks amazing and the heat island warmth is most apparent past 610 to about halfway to BW8. Many of the robusta in this area (the very skinny, lime green, super weepy tropical looking ones) are nearing a full recovery and look much better than some of the stragglers out west toward Katy Area. 

llalalaa.jpg.77469a782deb88fe221ede3f012f0d73.jpg

There wasn’t a drastic temperature difference between East and west along interstate ten. Did the city simply have more building, less wind. So more wind protection. More pavement melted snow faster etc… I followed the weather and it was only about a 2 degree difference.

I saw more dead palms along the beach area in Galveston then just inland. 

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Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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2 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

There wasn’t a drastic temperature difference between East and west along interstate ten. Did the city simply have more building, less wind. So more wind protection. More pavement melted snow faster etc… I followed the weather and it was only about a 2 degree difference.

I saw more dead palms along the beach area in Galveston then just inland. 

Probably concrete and duration. The reservoir/park areas that separate Katy from BW8 look very dead. 

Or the extra 2 degrees really helped. There is a big difference on the ground survival wise in areas that hit 14-15F vs 11-12F. 

Edited by Xenon

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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58 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Probably concrete and duration. The reservoir/park areas that separate Katy from BW8 look very dead. 

Or the extra 2 degrees really helped. There is a big difference on the ground survival wise in areas that hit 14-15F vs 11-12F. 

Seeing dead Washingtonia and True Dates along the beach homes in both Galveston and Corpus I think Wind was  a factor as it was only around 20F. All my Washingtonia survived 14.5F in 2018, so that helps. I just saw a video out of Corpus say they were replacing over 100, maybe 180?  palms that did not survive along Ocean drive at the cost of 150,000. They were showing them replacing them with Sabal Mexicana.

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Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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15 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Seeing dead Washingtonia and True Dates along the beach homes in both Galveston and Corpus I think Wind was  a factor as it was only around 20F. All my Washingtonia survived 14.5F in 2018, so that helps. I just saw a video out of Corpus say they were replacing over 100, maybe 180?  palms that did not survive along Ocean drive at the cost of 150,000. They were showing them replacing them with Sabal Mexicana.

A lot of palms directly on the coast or barrier islands are never that healthy to begin with (salinity, drought stress from sandy soils, etc) so that's probably another contributing factor 

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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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12 minutes ago, Arecaceae78743 said:

A very new picture from Port Isabel TX. (not mine) 

IMG_5498.thumb.jpg.1e8b951083be37ebddf4bf11e04286b7.jpg

You can find a lot more on recent real estate listings. If you just have to know :) (guilty) 

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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23 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Seeing dead Washingtonia and True Dates along the beach homes in both Galveston and Corpus I think Wind was  a factor as it was only around 20F. All my Washingtonia survived 14.5F in 2018, so that helps. I just saw a video out of Corpus say they were replacing over 100, maybe 180?  palms that did not survive along Ocean drive at the cost of 150,000. They were showing them replacing them with Sabal Mexicana.

Most of the Washingtonia along ocean drive survived, but yes some died and they are being replaced with S mexicana.  I really wish the locals would be a little more creative with their palm planting species, but I can't complain about the choice of the native Sabal mexicana.  They look great and they're invincible here.  Most everything in the Phoenix genus has fully recovered save for Pygmy date, event the P sylvestris are looking great, most of those survived.

Corpus Christi, TX, near salt water, zone 9b/10a! Except when it isn't and everything gets nuked.

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I visited some family in Fulshear back in June. I was shocked by how many butia completely fried in their neighborhood. We were around the 12 degree mark, and our butias looked fine. 

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On 11/6/2021 at 4:05 PM, Xenon said:

coconutmccc.thumb.JPG.6b7c74887182b42449a67b2015c0d5c2.JPG

What a survivor. I saw that too, in that FB group.  Certainly very impressive.  ironically that would make two survivors in McAllen. A much smaller one on iNaturalist, covered while the owners unprotected Dypsis Decaryi apparently died, and his Phoenix Roebelenii clump had a trunk collapse.  

https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/78090587

original.jpg

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Sorry for the blurry pics but The tallest Robusta hybrid at Gold’s gym off research blvd in Austin is working hard to come back to life. Hopefully a cold winter doesn’t kill it off because I’m pretty sure this is the tallest palm tree in a 5 mile radius 

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A picture I took today from Taylor TX. It looks like this CIDP has made a full recovery despite being out in the open. 

 

 

 

IMG_1062.jpg

Edited by Arecaceae78743
Put a more HD image
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On 11/9/2021 at 2:48 PM, Jtee said:

 

Great recoveries for a low of 7!  Noteworthy are the robusta surrounded by buildings that survived while the exposed ones faired worse.  Variations in some of the Filifera noticeable in the ones in front of the denim company building.  Sylvester was quite the surprise.  Surprised the Sabals look mostly untouched while filifera are a mixed bag of damage despite being so far west in TX.  

Edited by Mr.SamuraiSword
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FEB 2021 PIC - Tarrytown Terrace Apartments 2300 Enfield Drive, Austin. 

Couldn't get a pic as I was driving past and was so shocked to see that the two tallest Washingtonias had survived here. These are pretty robusta-ish for the area. There may have been another survivor that is barely pushing green but I honestly saw so many survivors in the area that I can't completely remember. 

Screen Shot 2021-11-16 at 5.46.30 PM.png

Edited by DreaminAboutPalms
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Amazingly,  9 months after the big freeze this Washington filifera literally just this week pushed up green ! This was near Coupland TX on November 22

A3B13023-C320-4995-965D-9782D7121F75.thumb.jpeg.7278a40511ea1c1b0b5f478ba3fc86c1.jpeg

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7 hours ago, Arecaceae78743 said:

Amazingly,  9 months after the big freeze this Washington filifera literally just this week pushed up green ! This was near Coupland TX on November 22

A3B13023-C320-4995-965D-9782D7121F75.thumb.jpeg.7278a40511ea1c1b0b5f478ba3fc86c1.jpeg

 

 I hope it pulls through. Its not very far from the Washy's I posted an update on with the one that came back and then puttered out.

I had a washy and a livistonia come back probably 6 months after the freeze. The livistonia had several leaves, and then just died now. The washy only had stunted fronds and it browned out too.

Edited by Collectorpalms

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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North Austin - two of three Robusta hybrids me back, tallest died unfortunately.

Seems like washie hybrids over 25 feet have a much higher survival rate. washie hybrids with 10-15 ft of trunk didn't xomw back at all hardly here 

thumbnail_image1.jpg

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On 11/24/2021 at 6:39 AM, Collectorpalms said:

 

 I hope it pulls through. Its not very far from the Washy's I posted an update on with the one that came back and then puttered out.

I had a washy and a livistonia come back probably 6 months after the freeze. The livistonia had several leaves, and then just died now. The washy only had stunted fronds and it browned out too.

That is what happened with all the dactyliferas in Austin. They all started coming back this spring but really they were just pushing out whatever was left in trunk and weren't able to produce new fronds and then died 

Edited by DreaminAboutPalms
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  • 2 weeks later...

Houston true robusta about 5 miles north of downtown. Also saw plenty of sky dusters making a good recovery driving along the freeways. Anything with a hint of filifera admixture looks abosolutely flawless.

PXL_20211203_184500969.thumb.jpg.d5107bce2ae0b2fce5c10c688c85b002.jpgPXL_20211203_184331304.thumb.jpg.73f5914ff3cfb021d38173d9fa374e81.jpg

PXL_20211203_183851102.thumb.jpg.076f9de0c8b7e1717d6f9a348863b923.jpg

 

Google Streetview of the same palms in AprilScreenshot_20211203-214326.thumb.png.0ed47c510924cb965b84dcb849dfccd2.png

 

 

Edited by Xenon
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Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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  • 3 weeks later...

Here’s my Filifera 10 months after the freeze. New Braunfels, Texas. I lost two Robusta that were a lot bigger, one was about 50 feet tall. I had to pay to get them removed. 

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Here’s some palms I grew from seed around a year ago. I planted them as replacements to the Robusta I lost. Two Filifera and one Robusta. 

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This is a lot of what I saw in Houston Monday. I drove along 1 10 from west to East. Then 610 and BW8. The majority of the live Washingtonia were all on the south side of the Taller Buildings. Ones just a few feet away on the northside or in parking lots the survival was much much lower.

No more queens or anything interesting. 
I also drove to Dallas saw 3 live Filifera and a Trachy. A couple Sabals. But most of those were dead too. Texas knocked back to the 1980s except for just the very inner cities.

saw 2 pre- 1989 surviving Filifera and 2 Canaries in the Heights.

A0EA1DB7-D76B-469A-BF4D-C3B1F83CAC72.jpeg

Edited by Collectorpalms

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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I haven't been downtown recently, but last time I checked downtown and the southside of San Antonio, there were a lot of surviving Washingtonias, including thin looking Robusta-ish ones.   

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2 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

This is a lot of what I saw in Houston Monday. I drove along 1 10 from west to East. Then 610 and BW8. The majority of the live Washingtonia were all on the south side of the Taller Buildings. Ones just a few feet away on the northside or in parking lots the survival was much much lower.

No more queens or anything interesting. 
I also drove to Dallas saw 3 live Filifera and a Trachy. A couple Sabals. But most of those were dead too. Texas knocked back to the 1980s except for just the very inner cities.

saw 2 pre- 1989 surviving Filifera and 2 Canaries in the Heights.

A0EA1DB7-D76B-469A-BF4D-C3B1F83CAC72.jpeg

Daaammmnnmmnn that's in Houston at 29N! That is Crazy! :o

What is the lowest those Robusta's or Robusta dominant hybrids saw? Surely it couldn't have been so bad that they were all totally smoked to f*ck like that? Like you would expect at least 2-3 of that bunch to have survived the freeze and recovered maybe? Yet they're clearly all as dead as a dodo though. No way. That makes me worry about the bigger Robusta's in London now. 

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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15 minutes ago, UK_Palms said:

Daaammmnnmmnn that's in Houston at 29N! That is Crazy! :o

What is the lowest those Robusta's or Robusta dominant hybrids saw? Surely it couldn't have been so bad that they were all totally smoked to f*ck like that? Like you would expect at least 2-3 of that bunch to have survived the freeze and recovered maybe? Yet they're clearly all as dead as a dodo though. No way. That makes me worry about the bigger Robusta's in London now. 

Yes this was in Houston within urban zone 9, that had not gone below 20F since 1989. Two weather station around them saw 12F (-11c). The warmest spot was within downtown about 5 miles away of 14 to 15F. The Hybrids did much better.

Edited by Collectorpalms

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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On 11/24/2021 at 5:08 AM, Arecaceae78743 said:

Amazingly,  9 months after the big freeze this Washington filifera literally just this week pushed up green ! This was near Coupland TX on November 22

A3B13023-C320-4995-965D-9782D7121F75.thumb.jpeg.7278a40511ea1c1b0b5f478ba3fc86c1.jpeg

Fantastic to see! Hopefully a mild winter will see it continue with its recovery. I know Texas is running well above average right now with tropical like temperatures almost.

What was the lowest temperature that this Filifera saw? And how many hours below freezing?

@Collectorpalms Are your Filifera's totally 100% caput, or are they showing any signs of recovery after 9 months, like this one? Maybe it's worth being patient with them, just in case?

Dry-summer Oceanic climate (9a)

Average annual precipitation - 18.7 inches : Average annual sunshine hours - 1725

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33 minutes ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

More surviving Austin CIDP

thumbnail_image1.jpg

My neighbors Canary that I planted a little too shallow about 15 years ago is starting to lean and may fall over. I am afraid that may happen to some over time.

Edited by Collectorpalms

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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2 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

More surviving Austin CIDP

thumbnail_image1.jpg

Exactly what I’m seeing in New Braunfels. A few died. Most recovered. 

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2 hours ago, UK_Palms said:

Daaammmnnmmnn that's in Houston at 29N! That is Crazy! :o

What is the lowest those Robusta's or Robusta dominant hybrids saw? Surely it couldn't have been so bad that they were all totally smoked to f*ck like that? Like you would expect at least 2-3 of that bunch to have survived the freeze and recovered maybe? Yet they're clearly all as dead as a dodo though. No way. That makes me worry about the bigger Robusta's in London now. 

I just saw a grouping of Robusta today between new Braunfels and San Marcos near York Creek Road and almost every one of them were alive and flourishing. There’s was a group of 25 of them and probably 15-20 were alive. Could be hybrids.   They saw 10F or below.

Edited by NBTX11
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3 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

I just saw a grouping of Robusta today between new Braunfels and San Marcos near York Creek Road and almost every one of them were alive and flourishing. There’s was a group of 25 of them and probably 15-20 were alive. Could be hybrids.   They saw 10F or below.

Decent recovery rate at Texas Ski ranch also which is just south of York Creek Road off the I-35. These are just Instagram screenshots but there are a ton more and most survived it seems like 

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9ACB1BDD-992F-4FD1-BBEC-0C58DCAF55C7.jpeg

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2 hours ago, DreaminAboutPalms said:

Decent recovery rate at Texas Ski ranch also which is just south of York Creek Road off the I-35. These are just Instagram screenshots but there are a ton more and most survived it seems like 

C426453D-81D5-4D62-886A-EE6EC7A26027.jpeg

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9ACB1BDD-992F-4FD1-BBEC-0C58DCAF55C7.jpeg

Exactly what I was referring to. The ski ranch, and the area just north of the ski ranch all have Robusta recovering. A lot of them. 

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18 hours ago, Collectorpalms said:

Yes this was in Houston within urban zone 9, that had not gone below 20F since 1989. Two weather station around them saw 12F (-11c). The warmest spot was within downtown about 5 miles away of 14 to 15F. The Hybrids did much better.

The 14F line extends a bit further, 7-10 miles from downtown to about halfway out to BW8 depending on the direction. South and southeast Houston were also in the 14-16F range. Hobby recorded 15F. More than half of the robusta along the I-45/Gulf Freeway heading south from downtown are alive. 

If I had to roughly place a "soft kill line" (say less than 20% survival overall) it would also be about halfway out to BW8 and parallel with the coast starting from around Pearland. A hard kill line would roughly be FM-1960 and a line SW to SH 99 and I-10. Farther out it basically looks like College Station. 

I could cherry pick many random examples of good looking groups of robusta (Florida-type robusta and "robusta" that are "5x" more robusta than anything alive in College Station) outside of the the soft kill line with a bunch of dead stumps across the street but I don't think such sample size is honest or accurate. Recovery is also dependent on prior health and age, the tallest skydusters and thirsty parking lot palms generally performed poorly. 

FWIW, I don't think these photos are too far off for healthy middle-aged robusta in urban Houston. 5-6 of them died and were removed. 

On 12/3/2021 at 9:39 PM, Xenon said:

Houston true robusta about 5 miles north of downtown. Also saw plenty of sky dusters making a good recovery driving along the freeways. Anything with a hint of filifera admixture looks abosolutely flawless.

PXL_20211203_184500969.thumb.jpg.d5107bce2ae0b2fce5c10c688c85b002.jpgPXL_20211203_184331304.thumb.jpg.73f5914ff3cfb021d38173d9fa374e81.jpg

PXL_20211203_183851102.thumb.jpg.076f9de0c8b7e1717d6f9a348863b923.jpg

 

Google Streetview of the same palms in AprilScreenshot_20211203-214326.thumb.png.0ed47c510924cb965b84dcb849dfccd2.png

 

 

 

Jonathan

Katy, TX (Zone 9a)

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On 11/11/2021 at 10:52 AM, Mr.SamuraiSword said:

Great recoveries for a low of 7!  Noteworthy are the robusta surrounded by buildings that survived while the exposed ones faired worse.  Variations in some of the Filifera noticeable in the ones in front of the denim company building.  Sylvester was quite the surprise.  Surprised the Sabals look mostly untouched while filifera are a mixed bag of damage despite being so far west in TX.  

Filifera aren't really a mixed bag in New Braunfels.  A vast majority of them recovered fine (95 percent plus).  The one by the old denim factory you see is dying because it's over 100 years old and couldn't take the cold due to it's age.  Any healthy medium aged Filifera around town probably survived, with the exception of a few unlucky stragglers. 

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New Braunfels, Texas. Dec 26, 2021. Sampling of Washingtonia Hybrids and Canary Dates. We lost a lot of super thin Robusta, but had almost complete recovery of Filifera and good hybrid recovery among the medium sized trunk kind. Canaries had good recovery percentages too. This is not everything, but just one small section of town. 

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Edited by NBTX11
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