Coldest Temperatures since the Arctic Outbreak of December 1989

[Ben OK]

45 minutes ago, Ben OK said:

I dug up the takils and a silver med fan. My east facing palms got a little extra wrapping. Now they're on their own.

 

[Jcalvin]

37 minutes ago, necturus said:

I will never understand the arguing over whose marginal climate is better. I also don’t understand why it’s so hard to make objective comparisons. You guys in south Georgia and north Florida keep telling yourself you’ll never get this cold. This event shouldn’t convince you that southeast Texas is colder, it should convince you that the terrible all-time records can and will happen again. Best of luck, now keep that stuff out of this discussion. Thanks. 

Lol. You guys are too sensitive. No one brought up. comparison of climates until the other dude did. Don’t start it and there won’t be any. Don’t be so triggered. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Jcalvin

[NBTX11]

I was just correcting inaccuracies.  I probably should have let it go.  It's really not important.  It's going to get cold, no doubt about it.

Edited February 13, 2021 by NBTX11

[Jcalvin]

2 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

I was just correcting inaccuracies.  I probably should have let it go.  It's really not important.  It's going to get cold, no doubt about it.

Yes, I’m just happy it you guys in Texas this time around. Lol

[RJ]

12 minutes ago, Jcalvin said:

Yes, I’m just happy it you guys in Texas this time around. Lol

Our turn will come. 2018 was pretty bad up here. Charleston was in the teens. 

[DAVEinMB]

20 minutes ago, RJ said:

Our turn will come. 2018 was pretty bad up here. Charleston was in the teens. 

Let's hope it waits awhile...

[GeorgiaPalms]

12 hours ago, Jcalvin said:

I actually think that we have milder temperatures here in the southern part of Georgia and especially the SE part of the state closer to the coast. It’s snowed here once since I’ve been alive, and it’s never sleeted- ever. It rarely gets below 25. And when it gets below freezing, it’s usually very brief.  Texas is a lot more susceptible to those artic blasts than we are here in southern and SE Georgia. In fact, I believe the cold weather is more milder here where I live than the panhandle of Florida. 

Definitely not true. Single digits have reached all over the GA coast and into North Florida. I remember it snowing in Jacksonville FL when I was just a little child. It was my first encounter with snow. Here around where I am currently living in north GA, it has hit -4F as a record low. Thats why I only grow Trachycarpus, Rhapidos and Sabal Minor for palms in my front yard. Its just a matter of time til the next blast happens. 

[Jcalvin]

8 minutes ago, GeorgiaPalms said:

Definitely not true. Single digits have reached all over the GA coast and into North Florida. I remember it snowing in Jacksonville FL when I was just a little child. It was my first encounter with snow. Here around where I am currently living in north GA, it has hit -4F as a record low. Thats why I only grow Trachycarpus, Rhapidos and Sabal Minor for palms in my front yard. Its just a matter of time til the next blast happens. 

It’s an arguable subject- especially when one talks about duration of cold and freezing weather, areas of both states, source of data, microclimates, recent weather patterns since climate change...etc. I’m going to leave it alone, though. It obviously gets a lot of emotional reactions. And, like I said, I wasn’t the one that brought up the comparison of different areas, so you guys need to direct that somewhere else if comparing climates is an issue. 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Jcalvin

[GeorgiaPalms]

3 minutes ago, Jcalvin said:

It’s an arguable subject- especially when one talks about duration of cold and freezing weather, areas of both states, source of data, microclimates, recent weather patterns since climate change...etc. I’m going to leave it alone, though. It obviously gets a lot of emotional reactions. And, like I said, I wasn’t the one that brought up the comparison of different areas, so you guys need to direct that somewhere else if comparing climates is an issue. 

If anything I love the climate of the southeast. It has generated some of the most fascinating plants in the world in my opinion. Palms which are able to handle the arctic blasts we are susceptible to and even other unique plants like the Venus Flytrap on the Carolina coast. I think the complexity of the climate has lead to some real innovation in the plant world here.

[NBTX11]

SE Georgia and N. FL is a great climate.  I don't think anyone is knocking the climate.  I personally love hot/humid climates.  If I lived there, I would be growing an abundance of palms.  I used to live in Tampa FL.  Give me heat and humidity.  Here's hoping the severe freezes stay away from you for decades to come (and it's decades before we see another prolonged freeze).  I don't wish this on anyone.  Cheers.

[GoatLockerGuns]

Just finished securing for arctic operations.  Started with the Zone 9 palms two days ago, and just finished with the Zone 7 palms.  I have know idea if they are going to pull through, but I least I tried.  Insulation and burlap around the trunks, with an outer layer of frost cloth.  Frost cloth on the crowns as well to at least blunt some of the cold/wet.  My main concern was obviously the growing points.  In order to secure my Chamaerops humilis, I had to edit the base of the trunk.  I have never edited it, just let it grow bushy, wild, and free.  Looked kind of funny with the trunk actually showing; however, I also noticed room for more plantings in the under story, so bonus!  I have about 10 or 11 palms on the "cliff" behind my house (and behind my fence).  Mostly extra Washingtonia sp., Sabal sp., and Phoenix sp. that I planted back there just for the heck of it.  They are on their own.  If any survive single digit temps, I will definitely be collecting "heirloom" seeds from them in the future.  Small stuff I just covered with extra pots (I have plenty of potted palms to replace them with if need be).  Never thought I would have to resort to herculean efforts to secure my cold hardy palm trees in San Antonio.  I have gained a lot more respect for the guys up north that do this every year.

I certainly hope @TexasColdHardyPalmswas able to adequately secure/protect his cash crop up there in the DFW area.  If so, then everybody is going to writing over their stimulus checks to him come spring!

Stay positive folks...whatever happens, happens.  The same thing (more or less) is going to happen to all of us in the path of this event.  We will replant, and carry on smartly.

#ALLABOUTTHATZONEPUSHERLIFE

[palmsOrl]

41 minutes ago, GeorgiaPalms said:

If anything I love the climate of the southeast. It has generated some of the most fascinating plants in the world in my opinion. Palms which are able to handle the arctic blasts we are susceptible to and even other unique plants like the Venus Flytrap on the Carolina coast. I think the complexity of the climate has lead to some real innovation in the plant world here.

Heck, the venus flytrap is, in-fact a warm temperate plant that need a certain amount of winter chill hours to last in cultivation long-term.  I have heard of people in Central Florida successfully keeping them long-term without refrigeration.  When I get another plant though, I am going to pop it in the fridge for 2 months just to make sure it gets the necessary chill to last more than a year or two.

[Reyes Vargas]

3 hours ago, amh said:

Forecast has been updated to above 5F, hopefully a good trend.

Doesn't that 68 and 69 in the forecast sound nice.

[AnTonY]

@necturus @NBTX11 @Jcalvin

I agree, I don't believe that any of these posts were necessarily meant to be argumentative or emotional. Sometimes, things come across that way given the structure of the postings. But, regardless, it's actually all very helpful because it reveals how important upper-level patterns are with regards to a forecast for any given area - just the slightest discrepancies can make all the difference.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by AnTonY

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Good news: The sun came out for about two hours, cleared the roads instantly and warmed things up about 7 degrees to 34. That was NOT in the forecast.  

[amh]

1 hour ago, Reyes Vargas said:

Doesn't that 68 and 69 in the forecast sound nice.

Oh yes!

But anything over 32F will be appreciated.

[amh]

1 hour ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Just finished securing for arctic operations.  Started with the Zone 9 palms two days ago, and just finished with the Zone 7 palms.  I have know idea if they are going to pull through, but I least I tried.  Insulation and burlap around the trunks, with an outer layer of frost cloth.  Frost cloth on the crowns as well to at least blunt some of the cold/wet.  My main concern was obviously the growing points.  In order to secure my Chamaerops humilis, I had to edit the base of the trunk.  I have never edited it, just let it grow bushy, wild, and free.  Looked kind of funny with the trunk actually showing; however, I also noticed room for more plantings in the under story, so bonus!  I have about 10 or 11 palms on the "cliff" behind my house (and behind my fence).  Mostly extra Washingtonia sp., Sabal sp., and Phoenix sp. that I planted back there just for the heck of it.  They are on their own.  If any survive single digit temps, I will definitely be collecting "heirloom" seeds from them in the future.  Small stuff I just covered with extra pots (I have plenty of potted palms to replace them with if need be).  Never thought I would have to resort to herculean efforts to secure my cold hardy palm trees in San Antonio.  I have gained a lot more respect for the guys up north that do this every year.

I certainly hope @TexasColdHardyPalmswas able to adequately secure/protect his cash crop up there in the DFW area.  If so, then everybody is going to writing over their stimulus checks to him come spring!

Stay positive folks...whatever happens, happens.  The same thing (more or less) is going to happen to all of us in the path of this event.  We will replant, and carry on smartly.

#ALLABOUTTHATZONEPUSHERLIFE

The Washingtonia and Sabal species should make it, but the Phoenix might die to the ground.

5 to 7 days below freezing isn't too uncommon in my area, but usually these weather patterns results in temperatures between 27F and 31F, not 3F to 18F.

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

All Robusta in DFW will be wiped out and virtually all in austin will be as well. I had a 30' one at the house I just sold that was planted in 2009. RIP. 

The only decent news is that unlike cold spells of the past everything is currently completely dormant which will help some.  We wrapped up most everything except the largest jxb and a flowering box neither of which have ever burned before. 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

10 minutes ago, amh said:

The Washingtonia and Sabal species should make it, but the Phoenix might die to the ground.

5 to 7 days below freezing isn't too uncommon in my area, but usually these weather patterns results in temperatures between 27F and 31F, not 3F to 18F.

Dactylifera are hardier than robusta at similar ages. 

[NBTX11]

24 minutes ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

All Robusta in DFW will be wiped out and virtually all in austin will be as well. I had a 30' one at the house I just sold that was planted in 2009. RIP. 

The only decent news is that unlike cold spells of the past everything is currently completely dormant which will help some.  We wrapped up most everything except the largest jxb and a flowering box neither of which have ever burned before. 

And there are a lot of them in Austin.  I am hoping 50 percent pull through.  I know there will be some carnage.  Healthy specimens might surprise.  Heck, there a lot of old, tall Robusta in San Antonio that I am a little concerned about.  Big, pre 1980 ones.  Take a ride around the central and south side of SA once in a while, they have some real skydusters.

Edited February 13, 2021 by NBTX11

[necturus]

The forecast on KHOU tonight was insane. Monday - 17 all day, Tuesday low of 4!!!! I was going to just wrap some mules, but now I think I will finish digging them all up tomorrow.

 

[romeyjdogg]

Well, we did all we could, and I feel better about that. Incandescent mini lights wrapped around top 1/3 of trunk into the spear area. Burlap around the whole trunk and spear area. Finally, a layer of bubble radiant barrier insulation on the outside.

Edited February 14, 2021 by romeyjdogg

[Allen]

20 minutes ago, romeyjdogg said:

Well, we did all we could, and I feel better about that. Incandescent mini lights wrapped around top 1/3 of trunk into the spear area. Burlap around the whole trunk and spear area. Finally, a layer of bubble radiant barrier insulation on the outside.

Good setup!

[Swolte]

Nice work. That actually doesn't look to bad either...

[PalmsNC]

15 hours ago, AnTonY said:

It's what I described earlier, a happenstance of particular upper-air patterns. Make no mistake, Southern Georgia and adjacent Florida can certainly get deep cold and freezes along with wintry events - hence the record lows in 1985, teens in Jacksonville during 2003, as well as the icing event in Brunswick/Glynn county during 2018. But, in recent years, there's just been certain tendencies in patterns.

All that's been happening is that Southern Georgia and Florida have been less exposed to active upper-levels and storm tracks, and the constant disturbances, shortwaves, low-pressure systems that ride along them - likely an effect from the W. Atlantic High.  Meanwhile, there's been a persistent tendency towards low pressure systems in the SW US/Northern Mexico/Baja region, which means that Texas and the Gulf states through the Florida Panhandle are put in closer to the storm track and associated effects. This is why you see lots of winter rainfall in Louisiana eastward to the Florida Panhandle, whereas the rest of Florida, especially the peninsula, sees a strong winter dry season.

The disturbances that are responsible for bringing the wintry precip and cold advection event into Texas actually originated over the North Pacific, and moved in onshore Northern California and Oregon.  But, guess what? They took a dive into Arizona, causing them to have more effect on the Texas weather patterns. This is exactly what I mean when I refer to the frequency of low pressure in the SW US, the disturbances always come in and dive down deep in that region, or form there - doesn't matter what the antecedents are. You see, had those disturbances stayed more on a straight course across the northern tier of the country from Northern California and Oregon, then Texas would just be dealing with a simple chilly period without the threat of flirting with record lows - the surface high bringing the chill would then have moved east, away from Texas. Instead, those disturbances always take that same positive dive into Arizona, and then eject - this causes surface low pressure to develop off the Texas Gulf, and the northerly flow on the back side will suck down the pent up polar vortex air right down through Texas, and even down the Gulf Coast of Mexico (hence the freeze at Tampico). It's exactly the same set-up as a Nor'Easter (Bombogenesis).

He isn't wrong though, on latitude by latitude basis Texas gets colder extremes than respective counterparts further east. Heck, Raleigh has gone subzero less times than Dallas, and the record hours below freezing here are far less than the record hours below freezing in Dallas. This despite Dallas being much warmer than here on average and further south. Compare OKC to Raleigh. Dallas to Columbia or even Atlanta. Houston vs Savannah.

Edited February 14, 2021 by PalmsNC

[amh]

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[Xenon]

 

1 hour ago, PalmsNC said:

He isn't wrong though, on latitude by latitude basis Texas gets colder extremes than respective counterparts further east. Heck, Raleigh has gone subzero less times than Dallas, and the record hours below freezing here are far less than the record hours below freezing in Dallas. This despite Dallas being much warmer than here on average and further south. Compare OKC to Raleigh. Dallas to Columbia or even Atlanta. Houston vs Savannah.

Here is some hard data so we can stop beating the dead horse. All of this data is freely available at local NWS pages.

OKC Will Rogers AP
Year range: 1948-2021
Avg Annual Extreme Minimum: 5F
Range: 16F (1952), -8F (1989)
1991-2020 average: 8F

DFW Intl
Year range: 1974-2021
Avg Annual Extreme Minimum: 16F
Range: 25F (2020), -1F (1989)
1991-2020 average: 18F

Dallas Love Field AP
Year range: 1939-2021
Avg Annual Extreme Minimum: 16F
Range: 28F (2020), 0F (1940)
1991-2020 average: 19F

Houston Intl
Year range: 1969-2021
Avg Annual Extreme Minimum: 24F
Range: 31F (2005), 7F (1989)
1991-2020 average: 26F

Houston Hobby AP
Year range: 1930-2021
Avg Annual Extreme Minimum: 25F
Range: 34F (2005), 5F (1940)
1991-2020 average: 28F

Raleigh-Durham Intl
Year range: 1944-2021
Avg Annual Extreme Minimum: 10F
Range: 21F (1956), -9F (1985)
1991-2020 average: 12F

Columbia Metropolitan AP
Year range: 1948-2021
Avg Annual Extreme Minimum: 14F
Range: 25F (1990), -1F (1985)
1991-2020 average: 17F

Atlanta Intl
Year range: 1928-2021
Avg Annual Extreme Minimum: 12F
Range: 24F (1949), -8F (1985)
1991-2020 average: 15F

Savannah Intl
Year range: 1948-2021
Avg Annual Extreme Minimum: 19F
Range: 29F (2019), 3F (1985)
1991-2020 average: 22F

I'll say it again...E/SE Texas and the SE Atlantic are extremely similar at the same latitude. It is only when you get into the Great Plains/Mid-Atlantic and South Texas/Peninsular Florida (~28th parallel) are there significant differences. Dallas, TX -> Macon, GA; Houston, TX -> Jacksonville, FL 

 

 

 

 

[AnTonY]

2 hours ago, PalmsNC said:

He isn't wrong though, on latitude by latitude basis Texas gets colder extremes than respective counterparts further east. Heck, Raleigh has gone subzero less times than Dallas, and the record hours below freezing here are far less than the record hours below freezing in Dallas. This despite Dallas being much warmer than here on average and further south. Compare OKC to Raleigh. Dallas to Columbia or even Atlanta. Houston vs Savannah.

I never said anything about him being right or wrong. What I did was break down the nuances in upper-air pattern, and the effects that are seen on a given area's climate.

[JohnAndSancho]

Let's break up the negativity with a screenshot from my dopey weather app. 

 

It begins. 

[NBTX11]

Some positives upcoming. 

It should warm up by Friday and STAY that way.  the long term forecast is at or above normal temps in Texas.  That should take us through Feb.  By March, the risk of severe freeze in South/Central Texas and SE TX is basically over.  If you can somehow make it through the next 3-4 days, it's over, as far as the cold.  If this had happened in December, you would have 3 months to worry about additional freezes doing more damage.

You will have surprise survivors.  I saw queen palms survive from mid teens in 2010, or whatever year that was that we had a big freeze.  You fronds will be absolute carnage.  But, let them recover.  Avoid the temptation to cut off fronds that still have a bit of green on them.  I know you will want to go out and immediately hurricane cut all of your palms, but avoid the temptation.  Let them go through the natural healing process.  

[NBTX11]

1 hour ago, Xenon said:

I'll say it again...E/SE Texas and the SE Atlantic are extremely similar at the same latitude. It is only when you get into the Great Plains/Mid-Atlantic and South Texas/Peninsular Florida (~28th parallel) are there significant differences. Dallas, TX -> Macon, GA; Houston, TX -> Jacksonville, FL 

 

Good analysis.  All one has to do is drive around Houston and see what is growing to large heights.  You don't see similar landscapes until you get into Jacksonville in the SE for example.  And yes, I know those landscapes are going to be slaughtered on Monday. 

[SailorBold]

9 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Just finished securing for arctic operations.  Started with the Zone 9 palms two days ago, and just finished with the Zone 7 palms.  I have know idea if they are going to pull through, but I least I tried.  Insulation and burlap around the trunks, with an outer layer of frost cloth.  Frost cloth on the crowns as well to at least blunt some of the cold/wet.  My main concern was obviously the growing points.  In order to secure my Chamaerops humilis, I had to edit the base of the trunk.  I have never edited it, just let it grow bushy, wild, and free.  Looked kind of funny with the trunk actually showing; however, I also noticed room for more plantings in the under story, so bonus!  I have about 10 or 11 palms on the "cliff" behind my house (and behind my fence).  Mostly extra Washingtonia sp., Sabal sp., and Phoenix sp. that I planted back there just for the heck of it.  They are on their own.  If any survive single digit temps, I will definitely be collecting "heirloom" seeds from them in the future.  Small stuff I just covered with extra pots (I have plenty of potted palms to replace them with if need be).  Never thought I would have to resort to herculean efforts to secure my cold hardy palm trees in San Antonio.  I have gained a lot more respect for the guys up north that do this every year.

I certainly hope @TexasColdHardyPalmswas able to adequately secure/protect his cash crop up there in the DFW area.  If so, then everybody is going to writing over their stimulus checks to him come spring!

Stay positive folks...whatever happens, happens.  The same thing (more or less) is going to happen to all of us in the path of this event.  We will replant, and carry on smartly.

#ALLABOUTTHATZONEPUSHERLIFE

Looks great.. it looks like they raised your forecasted low..so thats good. ..This evening I wrapped up my jubaea x butia and saguaro.. tomorrow ill see what else I can get..  its a quick dip to a forecasted 6f here in NM..  and they upforecasted the snow to 3-6"   hopefully it will insulate some.

Its headed your way.. sky looked ominous this afternoon.. and this evening some lightning and thunder with rain..  this storm is 'unrelated' to the arctic air.. but its headed right for you.  

Snowstorm here in 2 hours.

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by SailorBold

[KDubU]

Good luck to everyone, I surely hope the cold is less severe and that a many palms as possible survive for you all.

[Reyes Vargas]

I can't wait for Saturday.  That 82° on Tuesday is going to feel awesome.

[Swolte]

Forecast for College Station looks a little better every day. Good to see the 5F gone (for now...).

[jwitt]

Eight degrees lower than forecast low of 15f.  Cold night is tonight for here. This storm in NM probably sucked some gusto out of the arctic seepage into central/ South Texas, just my hunch. Maybe those Texas lows will go a bit upward. 

 

Sailorbold- thinking early March for seeding. Snow in Maui sets us back a couple of weeks.

Edited February 14, 2021 by jwitt
Add pic

[SailorBold]

36 minutes ago, jwitt said:

Eight degrees lower than forecast low of 15f.  Cold night is tonight for here. This storm in NM probably sucked some gusto out of the arctic seepage into central/ South Texas, just my hunch. Maybe those Texas lows will go a bit upward. 

 

Sailorbold- thinking early March for seeding. Snow in Maui sets us back a couple of weeks.

Geeze... yeah..I just ran to my weatherstation to check the temp.. Im at 14f..with 2" of snow. I didn't cover everything, I better get it now.  Tonight is it.

That wind from the plains came through the canyon... but goes to show you how far temps can be different scross the city.

Hopefully thats it for winter. Yikey!

[jwitt]

14 minutes ago, SailorBold said:

Geeze... yeah..I just ran to my weatherstation to check the temp.. Im at 14f..with 2" of snow. I didn't cover everything, I better get it now.  Tonight is it.

That wind from the plains came through the canyon... but goes to show you how far temps can be different scross the city.

Hopefully thats it for winter. Yikey!

Good luck on the protection.  Used a broom to knock off snow, my protection.  Gives some insight on the heights being milder- not in Arctic events, AKA-palm killing! Hopefully the warm up is quick. 

 

Duration is going to show in North Texas.

[Meangreen94z]

Thick ice has returned this morning in Leander, 30 miles NW of Austin. Snow forecasted this afternoon. Currently 23*F, low tonight shows 7*F

[SailorBold]

My filifera are going to defoliate..  smh..  I am not looking forward to a year of recovery..   the only reprieve is that the sun is coming out now..