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Fallen Munk

2021 Jubaea chilensis growth

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Fallen Munk

Starting a thread to track growth and count fronds for 2021.  The first frond of 2021 is just starting to open.    Second photo is for reference when I planted it in April last year.  10 months growth.

Jubaea10.jpg

Jubaea2.jpg

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GregVirginia7

Beautiful cold hardy trunking pinnate but not north of an 8a/b zone? 

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Fallen Munk
3 minutes ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Beautiful cold hardy trunking pinnate but not north of an 8a/b zone? 

This is a palm that is from a Mediterranean climate.    Much colder and it dies, much hotter, or high humidity and it fails to thrive.  They do well in the UK and coastal areas of the western states.  We had snow last week.  It did just fine with that because it was in the 30's F , but it does not like cold in the low 20's or below.  I'm not sure why we don't see more of them in Oregon besides a few in the Brookings area.  They love Salem and Portland, but they are just catching on here so no big ones are around as far as I know.

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PalmatierMeg

Beautiful palm I can't grow.

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GregVirginia7
7 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

This is a palm that is from a Mediterranean climate.    Much colder and it dies, much hotter, or high humidity and it fails to thrive.  They do well in the UK and coastal areas of the western states.  We had snow last week.  It did just fine with that because it was in the 30's F , but it does not like cold in the low 20's or below.  I'm not sure why we don't see more of them in Oregon besides a few in the Brookings area.  They love Salem and Portland, but they are just catching on here so no big ones are around as far as I know.

Yes...did a little reading and it likes things somewhat dry with no risk of teens and single digits...those of us in a 7a/b zone, and I consider my small, south facing situation a 7b plot of land, though I have no temperature data as proof, we are so limited and that’s just how this works. If there could be just one pinnate hybrid that could take my zone I’d buy it in a second. Question: when those dreaded polar vortices dip down from the arctic and cover the USA as far south as Florida, how do they affect your area? I mean, arctic air is arctic air...is the influence of the pacific enough to moderate the effects of those super cold air invasions or do you have to prepare for a temporary loss of zone? 

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EastCanadaTropicals
1 hour ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Beautiful palm I can't grow.

Try a Butia x Jubaea in the shade, that might be the closest thing you can get to a pure Jubaea.

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EastCanadaTropicals
1 hour ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Yes...did a little reading and it likes things somewhat dry with no risk of teens and single digits...those of us in a 7a/b zone, and I consider my small, south facing situation a 7b plot of land, though I have no temperature data as proof, we are so limited and that’s just how this works. If there could be just one pinnate hybrid that could take my zone I’d buy it in a second. Question: when those dreaded polar vortices dip down from the arctic and cover the USA as far south as Florida, how do they affect your area? I mean, arctic air is arctic air...is the influence of the pacific enough to moderate the effects of those super cold air invasions or do you have to prepare for a temporary loss of zone? 

Butia x Jubaea F1 or F2 is what you're looking for, but at your latitude, you might wanna wrap it in a cold snap. At your latitude, they're an 8a/8b palm, as the durated cold snaps will kill them easily. 

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EastCanadaTropicals
3 hours ago, Fallen Munk said:

Starting a thread to track growth and count fronds for 2021.  The first frond of 2021 is just starting to open.    Second photo is for reference when I planted it in April last year.  10 months growth.

Jubaea10.jpg

Jubaea2.jpg

Pretty fast for a Jubaea.

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Paradise Found
2 hours ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Beautiful cold hardy trunking pinnate but not north of an 8a/b zone? 

Try growing a Butia capitata var. bonnettii said to be hardy to 9F.

Also not as hardy but much easier to protect would be Butia catarinensis only hardy to 14F, mature size is only 9' so easier to protect if you want to take that route. 

 

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Fallen Munk
3 hours ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Yes...did a little reading and it likes things somewhat dry with no risk of teens and single digits...those of us in a 7a/b zone, and I consider my small, south facing situation a 7b plot of land, though I have no temperature data as proof, we are so limited and that’s just how this works. If there could be just one pinnate hybrid that could take my zone I’d buy it in a second. Question: when those dreaded polar vortices dip down from the arctic and cover the USA as far south as Florida, how do they affect your area? I mean, arctic air is arctic air...is the influence of the pacific enough to moderate the effects of those super cold air invasions or do you have to prepare for a temporary loss of zone? 

Well, some of what is published is wrong about them liking dry weather.  In my city we average 45" of rain per year, but we have been known to get over 60" and we average 144 days of rain per year.  Not quite as bad as Seattle though.  They do like dry hot summers, but even then, I water the heck out of mine.  I water it just as much as my Trachys, that's probably why it's growing so fast.  

And polar vortex doesn't affect us really.  Too close to the coast.  We can rarely have some cold air sneak down some of the valleys if the vortex gets close enough to us, but it's usually just short pulses of somewhat cold air.  I do keep some of those thick moving blankets handy just in case I need to cover it, but haven't needed to yet.  We've had some frost and temps in the mid 20's F this year, and one day of snow, but that doesn't bother it so far.  If it got to the low 20's or teens, I'd be worried.

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GregVirginia7
5 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

Well, some of what is published is wrong about them liking dry weather.  In my city we average 45" of rain per year, but we have been known to get over 60" and we average 144 days of rain per year.  Not quite as bad as Seattle though.  They do like dry hot summers, but even then, I water the heck out of mine.  I water it just as much as my Trachys, that's probably why it's growing so fast.  

And polar vortex doesn't affect us really.  Too close to the coast.  We can rarely have some cold air sneak down some of the valleys if the vortex gets close enough to us, but it's usually just short pulses of somewhat cold air.  I do keep some of those thick moving blankets handy just in case I need to cover it, but haven't needed to yet.  We've had some frost and temps in the mid 20's F this year, and one day of snow, but that doesn't bother it so far.  If it got to the low 20's or teens, I'd be worried.

Good point...your climate is anything but dry...guess consistent And moderate temps are king here...What a great climate!

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Chester B
3 hours ago, Fallen Munk said:

I'm not sure why we don't see more of them in Oregon besides a few in the Brookings area. 

Me thinks price.

3 hours ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Question: when those dreaded polar vortices dip down from the arctic and cover the USA as far south as Florida, how do they affect your area?

We have blocking from the Cascade mountains to the east, and moderation from the Pacific on our west.  So even though we are very far north we are lucky to have such a mild climate.  To put it in perspective we are about the same level as Ottawa, Ontario, Canada.  When I moved from Toronto to Portland I am a ton further west (obviously) but am 150-200 miles further north now.

 

3 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

We've had some frost and temps in the mid 20's F this year, and one day of snow, but that doesn't bother it so far. 

Salem is always colder in winter and hotter in summer it seems.  29F is the lowest I've seen - very mild.  Low 20's and teens is when I get worried too.  

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GregVirginia7
1 hour ago, Paradise Found said:

Try growing a Butia capitata var. bonnettii said to be hardy to 9F.

Also not as hardy but much easier to protect would be Butia catarinensis only hardy to 14F, mature size is only 9' so easier to protect if you want to take that route. 

 

Thank you...I think I have a great location...south face, sunny all day long with a shed behind it...add a little winter black frost cloth heat magnates and who knows...I’ve killed Butia before...but I know a little more now...maybe.

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Fallen Munk
8 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Salem is always colder in winter and hotter in summer it seems.  29F is the lowest I've seen - very mild.  Low 20's and teens is when I get worried too.  

Yep.  Lower in the valley and no gorge.  I'm glad we don't get those gorge winds.  My grandparents lived in Gresham and the wind was terrible sometimes.

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Fallen Munk
2 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Pretty fast for a Jubaea.

Yeah, I'm impressed with it.  I think it's gonna rocket this year now that the roots should be down into the clay.  I'm predicting that it may double in size by fall.  I think it's a big myth that these are slow.  They will creep along at a snail's pace if you keep them in a pot.  But if you put them in the ground with a stratified layer of sandy soil over clay, they should really take off once the roots hit the clay.  My lot is old farm field that used to flood, so the deep soil is rich clay.  I'm hoping optimistically for the start of trunking in 5 years or less, but we shall see....

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Chester B
22 minutes ago, Fallen Munk said:

Yep.  Lower in the valley and no gorge.  I'm glad we don't get those gorge winds.  My grandparents lived in Gresham and the wind was terrible sometimes.

Those gorge winds are no joke.  Fortunately I'm further south so I do still get them, but not as bad as Troutdale or Gresham.  That labor day wind storm literally stripped my fruit trees of their leaves, and severely desiccated everything else.

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EastCanadaTropicals
48 minutes ago, GregVirginia7 said:

Thank you...I think I have a great location...south face, sunny all day long with a shed behind it...add a little winter black frost cloth heat magnates and who knows...I’ve killed Butia before...but I know a little more now...maybe.

Jubaea x Butia, but even that will need to be wrapped sometimes. Do not try a butia, a cold winter will kill it easily. Butias are not as hardy as you think.

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Fallen Munk

Today's photo compared to eight months ago.

Jubaea11.jpg

Yardstick Jubaea resize.jpg

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Chester B

Looking good, its definitely fattening up.

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Fallen Munk
33 minutes ago, Chester B said:

Looking good, its definitely fattening up.

It's been a relatively warm winter here as you know.  It's been growing.  Not so much new fronds, but getting fatter.  Using the old growing adage, "sleep", "creep", "leap", it is still sleeping, and 2021 will be the "creep" year.  In about two years, it should be amazing if it's already grown this much in ten months.

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Chester B
1 minute ago, Fallen Munk said:

It's been a relatively warm winter here as you know.  It's been growing.  Not so much new fronds, but getting fatter.  Using the old growing adage, "sleep", "creep", "leap", it is still sleeping, and 2021 will be the "creep" year.  In about two years, it should be amazing if it's already grown this much in ten months.

I agree with that.   I also think if you plant it in a spot it likes and really minimize any stress or damage to the rootball,  it will continue to chug along and not hardly get set back.

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Fallen Munk
1 minute ago, Chester B said:

I agree with that.   I also think if you plant it in a spot it likes and really minimize any stress or damage to the rootball,  it will continue to chug along and not hardly get set back.

It was totally root bound when I got it.  Like no soil, all roots.  And light as a feather.  The pot was split wide open from the pressure of the roots, and because it was so light, the wind had been knocking it over and rolling it around the nursery.  I got a good deal on it.  It was just waiting for proper care to really take off because it really hasn't been sleeping so far.

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Paradise Found
19 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Jubaea x Butia, but even that will need to be wrapped sometimes. Do not try a butia, a cold winter will kill it easily. Butias are not as hardy as you think.

Yes I agree any butia would have to be wrapped and heated for the winter in zone 7.  Any temps below 20F is a good starting point to protect.   Butia x Jubaea and Jubaea x butia would give a better edge for freezes.  

Edited by Paradise Found

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EastCanadaTropicals
4 minutes ago, Paradise Found said:

Yes I agree any butia would have to be wrapped and heated for the winter in zone 7.  Any temps below 20F is a good starting point to protect.   Butia x Jubaea and Jubaea x butia would give a better edge for freezes.  

Yeah but they don't need artificial heat in a sheltered spot in northern va, they just need protection, unless it's a really bad freeze.

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tlow

Wow, incredible... I just started trying to germinate a handful of these.. Would be incredible if I could get some of these growing out here in North Texas.  Fingers crossed as this is on my wish list bigtime.  Keep us updated!!

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ryjohn

I lived it he Corvallis area in the early 2000’s... had a beauty of a Jubaea going in the garden when I left.  Started off as a 3 gallon and by the time I left it had turned into a 24-36” box size and maybe 5’ overall with big base.  I kept up with the garden via google street view after I left... was killed 2-3 years after I left by back-to-back 8F winters.  Same for a really nice Chamaerops, two large trunking tree ferns, a large Butia, a huge gunnera, and all New Zealand flax.  What thrives and looks very impressive to this day are Agave paryii, Aloe striatula, musa basjoo, all trachycarpus, and the larger varieties red hot poker cultivars that I invested in that have since grown into stunners.  It is too cold in the Willamette valley in certain years to not protect with heat. Don’t forget that!

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Fallen Munk
4 hours ago, ryjohn said:

I lived it he Corvallis area in the early 2000’s... had a beauty of a Jubaea going in the garden when I left.  Started off as a 3 gallon and by the time I left it had turned into a 24-36” box size and maybe 5’ overall with big base.  I kept up with the garden via google street view after I left... was killed 2-3 years after I left by back-to-back 8F winters.  Same for a really nice Chamaerops, two large trunking tree ferns, a large Butia, a huge gunnera, and all New Zealand flax.  What thrives and looks very impressive to this day are Agave paryii, Aloe striatula, musa basjoo, all trachycarpus, and the larger varieties red hot poker cultivars that I invested in that have since grown into stunners.  It is too cold in the Willamette valley in certain years to not protect with heat. Don’t forget that!

Sorry to hear about that!  I remember those winters.  I have an anodizing tank in my garage that was frozen solid.  That's hard to do with a super saturated acid solution.  And I could walk on my koi pond.  The ice was several feet thick.  It also killed one of my more rare species of bamboo that I had all the way down one side of my property.  I'm hoping we never see a winter like that again, but I wouldn't bet on it.  At some point these bigger palms become almost impossible to protect.

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Fallen Munk
9 hours ago, tlow said:

Wow, incredible... I just started trying to germinate a handful of these.. Would be incredible if I could get some of these growing out here in North Texas.  Fingers crossed as this is on my wish list bigtime.  Keep us updated!!

I hope you are young.  I've got about a hundred seedlings going, but I'm 54 so unless I live to 100 it's going to be a bit underwhelming.  My advice is to buy one that someone else has raised up for about 20 years.  They are expensive, but that's relative to time.  You watch something grow for 20 years and tell me what it's worth.

Edited by Fallen Munk

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tlow
9 hours ago, Fallen Munk said:

I hope you are young.  I've got about a hundred seedlings going, but I'm 54 so unless I live to 100 it's going to be a bit underwhelming.  My advice is to buy one that someone else has raised up for about 20 years.  They are expensive, but that's relative to time.  You watch something grow for 20 years and tell me what it's worth.

haha.. I do have some time and can afford to be rather patient with this one.  I'm trying seeds for the time being as I can't seem to fine anyone with some seedlings or even a larger size specimen for sale, if I did I would snap it up quick.

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LivistonaFan
On 2/2/2021 at 1:50 AM, Fallen Munk said:

They do like dry hot summers, but even then, I water the heck out of mine.  I water it just as much as my Trachys, that's probably why it's growing so fast.

Irrigation really is essential to get acceptable/good growth with this species:greenthumb: (at least until it is fully acclimatized). 

Without any additional water my Jubaea  looks like as if it was growing backwards in the last years:wacko:.  Its trunk has grown considerably though.  The Livistona chinensis behind it is recovering after having lost all of its leaves in Summer 2019 and it is growing much more compact now).

 

September 2018 (shortly after plantation)

880040485_DSC_0693.JPG.7bfd306d40bc430e07254eeece21440d(1).thumb.jpeg.e26ddaa638765576c699f0c613f27bf8.jpeg

 

June 2021

IMG_20210601_193055_edit_1020871792325473.thumb.jpg.c0c2584e7d7440011a7cc9886b0fbf85.jpg

 

 

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Chester B

Oregon grown. I’ve had this from a strap leaf seedling. I think I’ve had it 3 years now. 
 

0FDAD8CA-CE3E-4F18-A5D3-5CF480E5AECB.jpeg

DD6804F8-997A-4713-A944-4548BA6723D8.jpeg

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Fallen Munk
On 6/1/2021 at 2:52 PM, Chester B said:

Oregon grown. I’ve had this from a strap leaf seedling. I think I’ve had it 3 years now. 
 

Nice growth!  I have a 3 year old strap leaf that is just starting to try to pinnate.  

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Chester B
14 hours ago, Fallen Munk said:

Nice growth!  I have a 3 year old strap leaf that is just starting to try to pinnate.  

Once it got to that stage it started moving a lot faster.

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