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NBTX11

New Braunfels, Texas

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NBTX11

So, I took a ride around today and snapped a few photos of palms in New Braunfels, TX.  All shots are in the city limits of New Braunfels, which is on the NE side of San Antonio.  Generally speaking the lows are a degree or two lower than SA, but the highs are a degree or two higher than SA, for whatever reason.  It is warmer in New Braunfels than northern Bexar County along and north of Loop 1604.  Photos coming...

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NBTX11

Start out with a basic Washingtonia Robusta

NB1.jpg

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NBTX11

Filifera that have probably been there 100 years, no joke.  The trunks are gnarly.

NB2.jpg

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NBTX11

Old Sabal Mexicana

NB3.jpg

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Old Butia Capitata

NB4.jpg

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NBTX11

More W. Robusta along with a Filifera tucked in there.

NB5.jpg

Edited by NBTX11
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Skydusters peeking over houses.

NB6.jpg

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Phx Canaries.

NB7.jpg

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NBTX11

Queen Palms

NB8.jpg

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NBTX11

Washingtonia and Phoenixes

NB9.jpg

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NBTX11

More Syargus.  These are remarkable in that they are long term freeze survivors.  They survived the 2010/11 freezes and I believe were planted in the 1990's.

NB10.jpg

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NBTX11

This Phoenix Canariensis is a very long term freeze survivor, having survived the 80's freezes.  The bottom of the trunk is all mangled due to age and cold damage.  They butchered the crown to get it away from the power lines.  It was beautiful before that.

NB11.jpg

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NBTX11

Phoenix Dactylifera that has been there since the 1990's, I think.  They should have trimmed off all the offshoots.

NB12.jpg

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amh

Great thread, Its nice to see the variety around the area.

47 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

This Phoenix Canariensis is a very long term freeze survivor, having survived the 80's freezes.  The bottom of the trunk is all mangled due to age and cold damage.  They butchered the crown to get it away from the power lines.  It was beautiful before that.

NB11.jpg

I remember those 80's freezes very unfondly, it wasn't so much the lows, but the duration.

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ChrisA

Nice write-up! Those queens are impressive and look really full, the home owners must be treating them well. Just moved to SA so it is very interesting to see what is around.  

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NBTX11
13 minutes ago, ChrisA said:

Nice write-up! Those queens are impressive and look really full, the home owners must be treating them well. Just moved to SA so it is very interesting to see what is around.  

I see you came from Albuquerque.  Yeah, I would say San Antonio can grow quite a bit more than ABQ.  There are a lot of palms hardy for SA, and others that are worth pushing zones for. 

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ChrisA

Yes there is a lot more that will grow here! Still getting used to the humidity, especially in the winter. I was sweating my butt off all night last night and had the window open! It felt good when the cold front blew through this morning. Lol! Albuquerque is very cold by comparison although they receive a lot more sunshine there.

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NBTX11
2 hours ago, ChrisA said:

Yes there is a lot more that will grow here! Still getting used to the humidity, especially in the winter. I was sweating my butt off all night last night and had the window open! It felt good when the cold front blew through this morning. Lol! Albuquerque is very cold by comparison although they receive a lot more sunshine there.

Yeah we can have nights that don't drop below 60 in mid January.  I doubt that happens in Albuquerque.  I don't know what the official temp was today, but it had to be around 80.  Don't care as much about sunshine as I do about warmth.  I'd rather be in 75 degree cloudy weather than 35 and sunny. 

Edited by NBTX11
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ChrisA

You are correct you will NEVER experience a night in January in Albuquerque in the 60’s. An extremely unusual warm night would be about 45 max.  Albuquerque is either 7b or 8a in USDA zones depending on where you are in the city. However even in the 8a portion, where I lived, it’ll be 8b low temps on dozens of nights and the temperature in the evenings can easily plummet into the mid 20’s by 6 or 7pm. By late February the nights start warming up noticeably although the majority will still drop below freezing. 
 

I’m enjoying the nice temps here and will adjust to the humidity in time.  It’ll be nice to be in full spring mode in March. I already see signs of spring here now, irises flowering and pomegranates that haven’t hardly begun to turn color are now growing fresh leaves! Definitely a more palmy place! Can’t wait to get some new palms into the ground.

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NBTX11
7 hours ago, ChrisA said:

It’ll be nice to be in full spring mode in March. I already see signs of spring here now,

Spring already started.  Early spring, but spring anyways.  Barring serious freezes, my ash trees start budding during the last half of January (after losing leaves the last half of December).  Unless there is a bad freeze, the trees will be leafed out by mid to late Feb.  

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GoatLockerGuns
6 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Spring already started.  Early spring, but spring anyways.  Barring serious freezes, my ash trees start budding during the last half of January (after losing leaves the last half of December).  Unless there is a bad freeze, the trees will be leafed out by mid to late Feb.  

I already have full on leaves growing on one of my grape vines "Victoria Red."  They forgot is was winter apparently!

image.thumb.png.8b4cca9b554ecf6624cc82a10e67fbf8.png

image.thumb.png.685d11233f3333bf8e1748711836922f.png

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NBTX11

Based on the terrain in your photo, I am guessing you are somewhere in NW Bexar.  A lot of people don't realize this, but where I am in New Braunfels and Comal County is actually further south than northern Bexar County (and warmer than northern Bexar...I am not in the hill country side of Comal).

Edited by NBTX11
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GoatLockerGuns
33 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Based on the terrain in your photo, I am guessing you are somewhere in NW Bexar.  A lot of people don't realize this, but where I am in New Braunfels and Comal County is actually further south than northern Bexar County (and warmer than northern Bexar...I am not in the hill country side of Comal).

Yep...NW Bexar outside the 1604...I have seen 10 degree temperature increases within 10 miles driving SE to work on the I-10.

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amh
32 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

Based on the terrain in your photo, I am guessing you are somewhere in NW Bexar.  A lot of people don't realize this, but where I am in New Braunfels and Comal County is actually further south than northern Bexar County (and warmer than northern Bexar...I am not in the hill country side of Comal).

That's a common misconception, because if Comal is north of Bexar, New Braunfels must be north. The Balcones and Cibolo creeks determine Bexars northern border, resulting in a strange orientation.

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NBTX11
50 minutes ago, amh said:

That's a common misconception, because if Comal is north of Bexar, New Braunfels must be north. The Balcones and Cibolo creeks determine Bexars northern border, resulting in a strange orientation.

About a third or more of eastern Comal is south of the northern edge of Bexar.  That's because Comai isn't completely north of Bexar, it's North East.  With some parts of Comal north of Bexar and other parts east.  New Braunfels is essentially straight east of the Stone Oak area of Bexar.     

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Fusca
1 hour ago, amh said:

That's a common misconception, because if Comal is north of Bexar, New Braunfels must be north. The Balcones and Cibolo creeks determine Bexars northern border, resulting in a strange orientation.

You should see Bexar county on a map from 1844.  It took up almost a quarter of the republic (state)!

https://mapgeeks.org/texas/#!fancybox/70098eda/1844-State-Map-of-Texas.jpg

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amh
57 minutes ago, NBTX11 said:

About a third or more of eastern Comal is south of the northern edge of Bexar.  That's because Comai isn't completely north of Bexar, it's North East.  With some parts of Comal north of Bexar and other parts east.  New Braunfels is essentially straight east of the Stone Oak area of Bexar.     

Correct.

48 minutes ago, Fusca said:

You should see Bexar county on a map from 1844.  It took up almost a quarter of the republic (state)!

https://mapgeeks.org/texas/#!fancybox/70098eda/1844-State-Map-of-Texas.jpg

Thank you for posting the link, there's some neat history shown on the maps.

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ChrisA

Loving that spring vibe and looking forward to leaf out! Crazy to see the grape vine growing. Thanks for the info and links, since I’m new to the area it helps me learn.  
 

Have a great day!

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NBTX11

Driving around today I saw a huge Phoenix Sylvestris.  Like it had been there for decades.  I wonder if it's as hardy as CIDP.

Edited by NBTX11

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Collectorpalms
4 hours ago, NBTX11 said:

Driving around today I saw a huge Phoenix Sylvestris.  Like it had been there for decades.  I wonder if it's as hardy as CIDP.

I have a sylvestris that is 30ft tall and only about 16 years old. My two Canaries are about 10-15ft of trunk in the same amount of time. I think Canaries are hardier when it comes down to long duration freezes due to size of trunk.

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necturus

I saw a great Phoenix sylvestris in the Houston Heights yesterday. I know of a few more that size in the medical center area. Based on @Collectorpalms experience in College Station, I don't know why anyone here would bother with CIDP or even P. dactylifera. The main factor clearly is availability. These look fantastic and are tough.

image.thumb.png.31c514790588f61033b7f6dd0ec74003.png

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GoatLockerGuns

There are some nice Phoenix sp. at the entrance to the RIM in Northwest San Antonio.  I always thought they were Phoenix canariensis, but @Fuscathinks they are Phoenix sylvestris (or a possible hybrid) based off drupe (here is another view of the entrance to the RIM showing the drupes).  Regardless, I have been collecting fallen fruit/seeds like mad this month (there are two with ripe drupes right now), and already have one germinated.

image.thumb.jpeg.74310548fb0228bd6d0bb027268c07cc.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.efa4441132b5a71fb7c231916504d281.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.177b92ae6a77f4a45b3f115b28d55859.jpeg

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NBTX11

Here you go.  Some more Phoenix Canariensis - New Braunfels, TX.  Qute tall, and if you look at the trunks, very old, with some cold damage and age deterioration.  Crowns are about perfect.  The tallest one is about 3-4X as tall as the house so you can figure height based off that. Sorry about the glare in photo.  

How far north in TX do you think these are long term hardy?  My guess would be South Austin to Central Austin.  West Austin and north of Austin too cold.

NB13.jpg

Edited by NBTX11
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Phx Sylvestris (I think), New Braunfels TX

NB14.jpg

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necturus

Yeah agree, P. sylvestris. Too close to those powerlines for comfort...

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GoatLockerGuns
On 1/29/2021 at 10:14 AM, GoatLockerGuns said:

There are some nice Phoenix sp. at the entrance to the RIM in Northwest San Antonio.  I always thought they were Phoenix canariensis, but @Fuscathinks they are Phoenix sylvestris (or a possible hybrid) based off drupe (here is another view of the entrance to the RIM showing the drupes).  Regardless, I have been collecting fallen fruit/seeds like mad this month (there are two with ripe drupes right now), and already have one germinated.

image.thumb.jpeg.74310548fb0228bd6d0bb027268c07cc.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.efa4441132b5a71fb7c231916504d281.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.177b92ae6a77f4a45b3f115b28d55859.jpeg

These Phoenix sps. have now been "hurricane cut" after the Great Texas Freeze of 2021.  In fact, all of the Phoenix sps. at the RIM have been "hurricane cut."  I guess management thinks they may recover.  Also, almost all of the Washingtonia sps. at the RIM have been cut down.  There were over 50 tall Washingtonia sps. (with mostly robusta attributes) planted at the RIM.  Many were 30' to 40' plus in height.  Really sad.

image.thumb.png.55fcbef96157f04442df5277410774a3.png

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amh

I drove by the In-N-Out on 281 this week and the butias had some green showing, has anyone had a good look?

Edited by amh

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PricklyPearSATC
1 hour ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

These Phoenix sps. have now been "hurricane cut" after the Great Texas Freeze of 2021.  In fact, all of the Phoenix sps. at the RIM have been "hurricane cut."  I guess management thinks they may recover.  Also, almost all of the Washingtonia sps. at the RIM have been cut down.  There were over 50 tall Washingtonia sps. (with mostly robusta attributes) planted at the RIM.  Many were 30' to 40' plus in height.  Really sad.

image.thumb.png.55fcbef96157f04442df5277410774a3.png

What's with the orange Xs.??

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GoatLockerGuns
35 minutes ago, PricklyPearSATC said:

What's with the orange Xs.??

Pretty sure they were sprayed on the trunks so that the workers knew what palms to cut down.

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PricklyPearSATC

This might make us feel a little bit better about our palm losses:  I lost a boxwood to the freeze...A freak'n boxwood.  It was looking worse in the last week or so.  I checked the wood and it had split.   It appeared to have been split and desiccated for awhile.  The previous green leaves were probably just hanging on to dead wood. 

Edited by PricklyPearSATC

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