The Palms of the Oblate School of Theology

[Collectorpalms]

I can’t say for certain, but it looks like from the trimming of the fronds, that Somebody is pruning them back with their spare time that has some knowledge.  If it were landscapers they would have tackled biggest fronds too.

but yeah...they need some help because it’s overwhelming... I know too well. 

My trash man has a whole dump trunk load tomorrow.

Edited March 15, 2021 by Collectorpalms

[richtrav]

I knew Fr Leo and some of the history behind some of these palms. Most of those guesses are correct, some I wasn’t 100% sure of and am not sure Fr Leo was either. Many of these will probably not survive especially if he isn’t at Oblate to look after them. Some notes for posterity’s sake:

#8 and #32 are likely Sabal uresana, especially if they survive this winter (many forms of uresana are green)

#12 defunct was a hybrid Phoenix

#13 was Brahea clara 

#16 is/was Brahea decumbens wild collected from near Miquihuana Tamaulipas (hopefully it makes it)

#22 was Sabal yapa 

#26 and #40 were a pair of Livistona nitida planted together and at one time looked identical, one grew a little faster than the other over the years

#36 I think he said was Brahea brandegeei 

#39 was Nannorrhops 

#43 looks like one of the Brahea elegans from Sonora, there were several around the property. They came from Merv Larson in Tucson and were planted from 15s back around 2005. They grew much faster than typical Brahea armata. The nicest ones are/were towards the west side of the property.

In addition to the eucs, Acacia stenophylla, Ceiba and Pseudobombax he also had some nice pink tabebuias (Handroanthus heptaphyllus) planted around. The one in the courtyard came from seed collected in northern Cordoba Argentina and a particularly large one on the south side of one of the buildings that was little damaged by the 2011 freeze would occasionally bloom. I expect all of these trees were either frozen to the ground or killed outright.

 

 

 

[GoatLockerGuns]

I returned to the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio today.  This is the first time I have visited since before the 2021 Freeze Event (I has been a little over a year).  The place has changed considerably, as there was a massive die-off of the more experimental palms.  Some nice surprises though.  Here is what I found:

Brahea sps. (Possibly Brahea armata or Brahea elegans) (Looking strong)

 

Trachycarpus fortunei (Looking good)

 

Possible Trithrinax acanthacoma (Struggling hard; looks like its trying to push out a spear)

 

Arenga engleri clump (Casualty)

 

Phoenix sps. clump (Casualty)

 

Brahea armata (Struggling, but surviving)

 

Washingtonia sps. (Struggling hard)

 

Sabal sps. (Possible Sabal casuarium or Sabal uresana) (Recovering nicely)

 

Livistona sps. (Possible Livistona nitida) (2) (Casualties)

 

Possible Hyphaene sps. or Nannorrhops ritchieana (Main trunk casualty; new suckers from base)

 

Sabal sps. (Possible Sabal mexicana or Sabal uresana) (Doing well)

 

Butia sps. or Mules (2) (Looking good)

 

Bismarckia nobilis (Casualty)

 

 

Brahea sps. (Possibly Brahea armata or Brahea elegans) (3), Yucca rostrata, and Sabal sps. (Probably Sabal mexicana) (All looking good)

 

Mules (2) (Recovering; there were originally 4 Mules in this area)

 

Eucalyptus sps. (Possibly Eucalyptus globulus) (Recovering from root base)

 

 

Phoenix sps. (Probably Phoenix dactylifera) (Mixed bag, some casualties; mostly recovering and suckering)

 

Ceiba speciosa (Casualty)

 

Allagoptera arenaria (Recovered nicely; current frond browning is probably from a recent freeze event at the beginning of February 2022; gave the two new spears a couple of tugs, solid)

 

Acoelorrhaphe wrightii (New growth from clump root base)

 

Livistona chinensis (Struggling, but surviving)

 

Brahea sps. (Possibly Brahea clara) (Struggling, but surviving)

 

Unknown Cycad sps. (Recovered)

 

Brahea sps. (Possible Brahea decumbens) (Recovered)

 

Brahea sps. (Unknown) (Recovered)

 

 

Chamaedorea sp. (Possibly Chamaedorea radicalis) (Recovered)

 

Various Washingtonia sps. around the property

 

 

Various Pinus sps. around the property (Pines are not that common around here)

 

Obligatory Brahea sps. and Tesla shot

[Collectorpalms]

The two surviving mules in the semi-circle are a good surprise. Even mine that were wrapped died easily. That Sabal in 8th picture looks a lot like my Sabal Uresana coastal form, purchased from Barton Springs. 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Collectorpalms

[GoatLockerGuns]

44 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

That Sabal in 8th picture looks a lot like my Sabal Uresana coastal form

Yeah, @richtrav posted that was what he thought it is as well.  Sounded like he might have had the inside scoop on what Father Leo was into.  Seriously though, that is a nice looking palm, before and after the freeze.

Before:

After:

[richtrav]

Yes I used to visit with Fr Leo back around 15 years ago. I even brought those Brahea on the west part of the property back from Arizona for him around ‘05. They were in 15 gallon containers and came from Merv Larson in Tucson. If I remember correctly Merv told me they were the blue coastal braheas from Sonora, they have grown a lot faster than armata. And yes that is Brahea decumbens in the courtyard. The grey eucs are camaldulensis, either ‘Silverton’ or ‘Flinders Ranges’. And those were indeed a pair of Livistona nitida (RIP). I don’t remember talking to him about that Sabal but had just assumed it was uresana.

[Austinpalm]

16 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

I returned to the Oblate School of Theology in San Antonio today.  This is the first time I have visited since before the 2021 Freeze Event (I has been a little over a year).  The place has changed considerably, as there was a massive die-off of the more experimental palms.  Some nice surprises though.  Here is what I found:

Brahea sps. (Possibly Brahea armata or Brahea elegans) (Looking strong)

 

Trachycarpus fortunei (Looking good)

 

Possible Trithrinax acanthacoma (Struggling hard; looks like its trying to push out a spear)

 

Arenga engleri clump (Casualty)

 

Phoenix sps. clump (Casualty)

 

Brahea armata (Struggling, but surviving)

 

Washingtonia sps. (Struggling hard)

 

Sabal sps. (Possible Sabal casuarium or Sabal uresana) (Recovering nicely)

 

Livistona sps. (Possible Livistona nitida) (2) (Casualties)

 

Possible Hyphaene sps. or Nannorrhops ritchieana (Main trunk casualty; new suckers from base)

 

Sabal sps. (Possible Sabal mexicana or Sabal uresana) (Doing well)

 

Butia sps. or Mules (2) (Looking good)

 

Bismarckia nobilis (Casualty)

 

 

Brahea sps. (Possibly Brahea armata or Brahea elegans) (3), Yucca rostrata, and Sabal sps. (Probably Sabal mexicana) (All looking good)

 

Mules (2) (Recovering; there were originally 4 Mules in this area)

 

Eucalyptus sps. (Possibly Eucalyptus globulus) (Recovering from root base)

 

 

Phoenix sps. (Probably Phoenix dactylifera) (Mixed bag, some casualties; mostly recovering and suckering)

 

Ceiba speciosa (Casualty)

 

Allagoptera arenaria (Recovered nicely; current frond browning is probably from a recent freeze event at the beginning of February 2022; gave the two new spears a couple of tugs, solid)

 

Acoelorrhaphe wrightii (New growth from clump root base)

 

Livistona chinensis (Struggling, but surviving)

 

Brahea sps. (Possibly Brahea clara) (Struggling, but surviving)

 

Unknown Cycad sps. (Recovered)

 

Brahea sps. (Possible Brahea decumbens) (Recovered)

 

Brahea sps. (Unknown) (Recovered)

 

 

Chamaedorea sp. (Possibly Chamaedorea radicalis) (Recovered)

 

Various Washingtonia sps. around the property

 

 

Various Pinus sps. around the property (Pines are not that common around here)

 

Obligatory Brahea sps. and Tesla shot

Am wondering if the possible Hyphaene are in fact Nannorrhops? I remember seeing Nannorrhops there once.

[GoatLockerGuns]

9 hours ago, richtrav said:

I even brought those Brahea on the west part of the property back from Arizona for him around ‘05. They were in 15 gallon containers and came from Merv Larson in Tucson. If I remember correctly Merv told me they were the blue coastal braheas from Sonora, they have grown a lot faster than armata.

From what I can tell, Brahea elegans is not currently an accepted species, and is listed as a synonym for Brahea armata.  The Kew Gardens Plants of the World database lists the first publication of Brahea elegans occurring in Baileya, A Quarterly Journal of Horticultural Taxonomy, on page 186, Volume 19, Number 4 (1973) by H.E. Moore, Jr.  In that journal, however, Moore was only acknowledging an earlier reference to it on pages 138-140 in Webbia: Raccolta Di Scritti Botanici (Volume Secondo) (1907) by Francseschi.  In that publication, it is listed under the synonym Erythea elegans (Erythea was the synonym for the Brahea genus at the time of the Webbia publication), and a description of the "species" is given.  In the Webbia entry, Franceschi describes the natural habitat of Erythea elegans as occurring in the Mexican State of Sonora.  My assumption is that what is commonly called Brahea elegans is currently considered a localized differentiation of Brahea armata that grows in Sonora, Mexico (where you got them from).  I would imagine there is much differentiation in the Brahea genus (similar to the Washingtonia genus) as a result of geographic distribution and localized environmental factors.

[GoatLockerGuns]

47 minutes ago, Austinpalm said:

Am wondering if the possible Hyphaene are in fact Nannorrhops? I remember seeing Nannorrhops there once.

I would like to know the answer to that as well.  @Fusca originally thought that it was a Hyphaene species of some type, but @richtrav identified it as a Nannorrhops species (most likely Nannorrhops ritchieana).  I have a Nannorrhops ritchieana planted on my property, and it has much darker green fronds and petioles than the specimen at Oblate (although, it gets more shade than the Oblate one as well).  It is also smaller, and did not incur any damage from the 2021 freeze event (not even a little browning of the fronds).  The Oblate specimen clearly had main trunk damage, and is only showing recovery from clump suckers.  Also, those suckers shot up really fast post freeze.  My Nannorrhops ritchieana grows very slow.  Here are a few comparison photos:

Oblate specimen pre-freeze:

Oblate specimen post-freeze:

Picture of Nannorrhops ritchieana growing on my property (seed grown; germinated in 2016):

[Austinpalm]

1 hour ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

I would like to know the answer to that as well.  @Fusca originally thought that it was a Hyphaene species of some type, but @richtrav identified it as a Nannorrhops species (most likely Nannorrhops ritchieana).  I have a Nannorrhops ritchieana planted on my property, and it has much darker green fronds and petioles than the specimen at Oblate (although, it gets more shade than the Oblate one as well).  It is also smaller, and did not incur any damage from the 2021 freeze event (not even a little browning of the fronds).  The Oblate specimen clearly had main trunk damage, and is only showing recovery from clump suckers.  Also, those suckers shot up really fast post freeze.  My Nannorrhops ritchieana grows very slow.  Here are a few comparison photos:

Oblate specimen pre-freeze:

Oblate specimen post-freeze:

Picture of Nannorrhops ritchieana growing on my property (seed grown; germinated in 2016):

The photo of the pre-freeze Oblate specimen seems very similar to what I recall Father Leo identifying to me as a Nannorrhops.  Only it was mostly gray/silver at the time.  Am guessing was initially grown in under much greater sun exposure and has since started to revert to green with the milder conditions at Oblate.  Glad to hear it has regrown since the freeze.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Austinpalm
spelling correction

[GoatLockerGuns]

9 minutes ago, Austinpalm said:

The photo of the pre-freeze Oblate specimen seems very similar to what I recall Father Leo identifying to me as a Nannorrhops.

If it is Nannorrhops ritchieana, then I wish mine would grow as fast as some of those suckers in the post-freeze picture (March 2022).  The pre-freeze picture (January 2021) clearly shows no sucker growth; that all occurred post-freeze..  In a little over 13 months, one of those suckers produced like 8 mature fronds (and a little bit of trunk is starting to form).  My Nannorrhops ritchieana is almost 6 years old, and it is not even half as tall as that sucker!

[richtrav]

There are many forms of Nannorrhops, some more tender than others and some greener than others. I’m not up to date about whether they are just different forms or different species. At least one nursery down here field grows them and they are not slow. I am 98.639% sure that thing is not a Hyphaene, which would have spines on the petioles for starters. 

These are some at the Santa Rosa Children’s Hospital in San Antonio, photographed last May.

 

[GoatLockerGuns]

53 minutes ago, richtrav said:

There are many forms of Nannorrhops, some more tender than others and some greener than others.

True.  I have some Nannorrhops ritchieana seedlings that I grew from seeds obtained from @Fusca last year.  The strap leaves have a very pronounced silver color.  As I understand it, the "Silver" form of Nannorrhops ritchieana used to be called Nannorrhops arabica; however, that species name is no longer accepted, and it is just considered a synonym for a variation of Nannorrhops ritchieana that grows in a different part of the Arabian Peninsula (Yemen I think).  I remember @TexasColdHardyPalms posting a while back that he was growing the "Silver" form of Nannorrhops ritchieana, and that it was much more cold sensitive than the "Green" form.  I think the one I grew from seed back in 2016 is the "Green" form (more cold hardy), and the new ones that I germinated last year are the "Silver" form (less cold hardy).  The ones at Oblate seem more "silvery" to me.  That may also be one of the reasons that they experienced main trunk death, while my smaller "Green" form experienced no noticeable damage (mine is also more protected; although, I am pretty sure I experienced lower temperatures at my location than the Oblate School of Theology).  Regardless, I have been careful not to expose my "Silver" form seedlings to freezing temperatures (at least, not until they are much bigger).

*** Still, the growth rate on those suckers at Oblate are impressive!

Nannorrhops ritchieana "Silver" Form (Germinated in April 2021):

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

I have some Nannorrhops ritchieana seedlings that I grew from seeds obtained from @Fusca last year.

Nannorrhops ritchieana "Silver" Form (Germinated in April 2021):

Very nice Rich!  I must have given you the good seeds - none of the ones I tried ever germinated! 

[GoatLockerGuns]

1 minute ago, Fusca said:

I must have given you the good seeds - none of the ones I tried ever germinated!

Definitely....I got 4 out of 5 to germinate.

[GoatLockerGuns]

The exotic palm scene at the Oblate School of Theology is a shadow of what it used to be post February 2021 freeze event; however, there are still some nice finds if you know where to look.  These pictures were taken yesterday (October 18, 2022):

Brahea armata

Arenga engleri (suckers recovered from clump)

Phoenix reclinata (suckers recovered from clump)

Sabal uresana

Mules (2 of 4 survived)

Phoenix dactylifera (3 of 6 survived)

Sabal spp. (survived the 2021 freeze)

Allagoptera arenaria

Livistona chinensis (seen better days)

Brahea spp.

Brahea spp.

Chamaedorea spp.

Not palms (but still cool):

Eucalyptus spp. (I know of 4 planted on the property; all trunk died, but recovered with new growth from the base)

Jacaranda mimosifolia (I know of 2 planted on the property; both trunk died, but recovered with new growth from the base)

[Foxpalms]

@GoatLockerGunswhat temperature did it get down to there? Isn't Allagoptera arenaria a zone 9b palm.

[GoatLockerGuns]

@Foxpalms, according to Weather Underground, it got down to 9F (-12.8C) at the San Antonio International Airport (SAT) on February 15, 2021 (see February 2021 weather data below).  The Oblate School of Theology is located pretty close to the airport, so I would say that the temperatures there were very similar.  There were four consecutive days where the temperature did not exceed freezing (32F or 0C) as well (i.e., February 13, 14, 15, 16).  There was also some snow on the ground that stuck.

I have no idea what the minimum temperature is for Allagoptera arenaria; however, this specimen clearly held its own.  I remember coming back and inspecting it in the months following the freeze.  I never saw serious frond damage/defoliation, and there was never any spear pull.  This specimen is planted in a relatively sheltered location, with brick walls on two sides (to the North and East).  It is also planted in a funky spot, right between two shrubs.

[Foxpalms]

29 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

@Foxpalms, according to Weather Underground, it got down to 9F (-12.8C) at the San Antonio International Airport (SAT) on February 15, 2021 (see February 2021 weather data below).  The Oblate School of Theology is located pretty close to the airport, so I would say that the temperatures there were very similar.  There were four consecutive days where the temperature did not exceed freezing (32F or 0C) as well (i.e., February 13, 14, 15, 16).  There was also some snow on the ground that stuck.

I have no idea what the minimum temperature is for Allagoptera arenaria; however, this specimen clearly held its own.  I remember coming back and inspecting it in the months following the freeze.  I never saw serious frond damage/defoliation, and there was never any spear pull.  This specimen is planted in a relatively sheltered location, with brick walls on two sides (to the North and East).  It is also planted in a funky spot, right between two shrubs.

That's impressive that those palms can survive the temperatures they did, especially allagoptera arenaria. That palm is listed as only hardy to -3c from what I've read, definitely worth trying here then.  Even being near brick walls in a protected microclimate I'm guessing it still got down to atleast 12-13f in that spot. It definitely helps that the temperature were back into the 60s and 70s after the freeze.

[NBTX11]

51 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

@Foxpalms, according to Weather Underground, it got down to 9F (-12.8C) at the San Antonio International Airport (SAT) on February 15, 2021 (see February 2021 weather data below).  The Oblate School of Theology is located pretty close to the airport, so I would say that the temperatures there were very similar.  There were four consecutive days where the temperature did not exceed freezing (32F or 0C) as well (i.e., February 13, 14, 15, 16).  There was also some snow on the ground that stuck.

I have no idea what the minimum temperature is for Allagoptera arenaria; however, this specimen clearly held its own.  I remember coming back and inspecting it in the months following the freeze.  I never saw serious frond damage/defoliation, and there was never any spear pull.  This specimen is planted in a relatively sheltered location, with brick walls on two sides (to the North and East).  It is also planted in a funky spot, right between two shrubs.

The oblate school, while pretty close to the airport, is south of the airport. I monitored the temperature during this freeze and downtown was slightly warmer. It’s very possible the oblate school did not drop below the 10-12 range. 

[GoatLockerGuns]

1 hour ago, Foxpalms said:

That palm is listed as only hardy to -3c from what I've read

-3C would be approximately 26F (as you previously stated, Zone 9b).  I have not seen very much literature on the cold hardiness of this particular species myself.  Palmpedia says, "This palm is somewhat cold hardy and can withstand freezes down to 25 F/-3.88 C. Colder temps can damage the plant severely, but it will often recover from brief freezes down to nearly 20 F/-6.66 C." If you take the Palmpedia description at face value, 20F (-6.66C) would make it "survivable" at Zone 9a.  Like I stated before, there was little frond damage and no spear pull on this specimen.  I am not sure of the true temperature at this site; however, if you take @NBTX11's conservative estimate of 12F (-11C), that is still a Zone 8a temperature.  That site probably experienced at least 3 nights and/or days with Zone 8a/8b temperatures.  I know of no other Allagoptera arenaria planted outdoors in this area, so there is really nothing to compare it to.  My best guess is that the protected location of this palm contributed to a micro climate condition for optimal survival.  Still, no major frond damage or spear pull? I personally think that is impressive regardless.  There was another freeze/ice event in February of 2022 as well.  Nothing as significant as February 2021, but there was ice covering everything at my house for 2 days straight.  I noticed some frond burn when I visited in March of this year, but nothing major.  All told, I personally think this palm has some serious cold hardy potential; albeit, it is not the most attractive palm out there.

[BeyondTheGarden]

Sorry for the crappy picture, working from my phone here.  

There have been many cases of A arenaria surviving mid teens, with damage of course.  Being an understory palm it's worth zone pushing. 

[Foxpalms]

10 hours ago, Jesse PNW said:

Sorry for the crappy picture, working from my phone here.  

There have been many cases of A arenaria surviving mid teens, with damage of course.  Being an understory palm it's worth zone pushing. 

Definitely proves websites hardiness ratings aren't always accurate. I guess this palm will be fine here then unprotected and will never get damaged by cold.

[BeyondTheGarden]

Let's try that again...  

Also... I believe palmpedia tends to list conservative ratings for palms.... they'll say something is 9a whereas an online vendor will tell you it's hardy to zone 6 as long as you buy from them!

Edited October 21, 2022 by Jesse PNW

[GoatLockerGuns]

On 10/20/2022 at 9:25 PM, Jesse PNW said:

I believe palmpedia tends to list conservative ratings for palms

Concur....Having lost a few palms to cold snaps, my own cold-hardy estimates are always more conservative as well (sometimes more so than Palmpedia). I am not an optimistic zone pusher by any means.

Also, I think @Fusca's report of palm death for this palm on that spreadsheet is in error. I only know of one ever being  planted on the school grounds, at it survived (as the recent pictures attest).

[Fusca]

17 hours ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Also, I think @Fusca's report of palm death for this palm on that spreadsheet is in error. I only know of one ever being  planted on the school grounds, at it survived (as the recent pictures attest).

I haven't heard of any success stories in 9a but I may be wrong. The error is the location (description).  What I reported was a palm in my yard in San Antonio.  @kinzyjr 

 

On 10/20/2022 at 9:25 PM, Jesse PNW said:

Let's try that again...  

Also... I believe palmpedia tends to list conservative ratings for palms.... they'll say something is 9a whereas an online vendor will tell you it's hardy to zone 6 as long as you buy from them!

Sometimes Palmpedia gives false hope.  Below is in their listing for Chambeyronia macrocarpa.  I haven't heard of any success stories in 9a but I may be wrong.

 

Comments and Curiosities

As the national tree of New Caledonia, it becomes obvious why, when one is on approach to that country's airport. This gorgeous tall emergent species can be seen poking its head above the forest, and becomes especially visible while sporting its trademark new leaf. After observing many cultivated Chambeyronia macrocarpa in private and public gardens, one begins to notice how variable this species is. Leaflet width varies greatly, as does the sheen, from glossy to matte finish, as well as different colorations on the crownshaft and petioles.

Flowers/Fruits: It produces stalks of small purple flowers that comes from below the crownshaft. Inflorescence is branched. Flowers are followed by small round berrylike green fruits that turn red when ripe.

Growth Rate: Slow. This slow growing palm can get up to 10 – 20 ft tall and 15-20 ft wide.

Outdoor/Indoor Use: Both.

Cold Tolerance: Flame Thrower Palm can resist temperatures down to 20F when mature enough. It is great for growing in USDA Zones 9a (20 to 25 F) to 11 (above 40 F).

[kinzyjr]

1 hour ago, Fusca said:

I haven't heard of any success stories in 9a but I may be wrong. The error is the location (description).  What I reported was a palm in my yard in San Antonio. 

I'll correct this and re-post the sheet in a bit.  Thank you for letting me know.

[Fusca]

1 hour ago, kinzyjr said:

I'll correct this and re-post the sheet in a bit.  Thank you for letting me know.

Sorry about the double-post.  The phrase "I haven't heard of any success stories in 9a but I may be wrong." wasn't meant to be for the Arenga but only for the Chambeyronia.  Somehow that got entered in twice. 

I just noticed that the entry in the spreadsheet was for Allagoptera arenaria and not Arenga engleri which is the palm I reported dying in zone 9a in my yard at 9°.  Sorry to add to the confusion!

Edited November 1, 2022 by Fusca

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

@kinzyjr @Fusca I believe A.Arenaria to be a 9a bullet proof palm. Mine in League City Texas survived Palmageddon at a low of 15° Heavily suckering at the time there was 6 suckers wich 3 spear pulled and all survived. This palm seems to sucker more after a hard freeze. I need to get a couple for my new property 😃

T J 

[GoatLockerGuns]

On 10/31/2022 at 7:11 PM, Fusca said:

I just noticed that the entry in the spreadsheet was for Allagoptera arenaria and not Arenga engleri which is the palm I reported dying in zone 9a in my yard at 9°.  Sorry to add to the confusion!

You're killing me smalls!  BTW...the Arenga engleri at Oblate came back from the the clump.  I thought that was fairly impressive as well.

[BeyondTheGarden]

@GoatLockerGunsdid it come back from the main stem or from the suckers?

Edit, oh I just scrolled up and read that the suckers came back.  Sorry. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Jesse PNW

[GoatLockerGuns]

2 minutes ago, Jesse PNW said:

did it come back from the main stem or from the suckers?

Good question.  I really did not look that close to be honest with you.  It is hard to tell in the picture, but I would suspect they did not grow back from any of the the main stems.  It appears there are a few dead stems in this photo.

The ones at Moody Gardens in Galveston came back as well.  They look more healthy; however, it did not get as cold there, and they get more sun (the ones at Oblate are in a rather shady spot).

[BeyondTheGarden]

5 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

Good question.  I really did not look that close to be honest with you.  It is hard to tell in the picture, but I would suspect they did not grow back from any of the the main stems.  It appears there are a few dead stems in this photo.

The ones at Moody Gardens in Galveston came back as well.  They look more healthy; ...

Those are beauties!  

[Xenon]

21 minutes ago, GoatLockerGuns said:

 

The ones at Moody Gardens in Galveston came back as well.  They look more healthy; however, it did not get as cold there, and they get more sun (the ones at Oblate are in a rather shady spot).

 

It was huge and full of ripe seed just days before the freeze. Kicking myself for not getting seed and cuttings...all went to waste anyways 

[Foxpalms]

Where can I view the cold hardiness master data? I want to know the hardiness of Cyphophoenix elgans, Cyphophoenix nucele, Chambeyronia lepidote "high elevation", Chambeyronia oliviformis, syagrus campylospatha, attalea phalerata, Syagrus kellyana, syagrus inajai, syagrus vermicularis, allagoptera leucocalyx, syagrus orinocensis

[GoatLockerGuns]

3 hours ago, Foxpalms said:

Where can I view the cold hardiness master data

I believe you can find it here:

 

[GoatLockerGuns]

I am trying to ID these two palms planted at Oblate.  Any assistance from the community would be greatly appreciated.  I took these photos today (November 15, 2022).

First One.  I think it is a Brahea sp., possibly Brahea calcarea.  I only say it might be a Brahea calcarea because I could not find any spikes on any of its petioles.

Second One.  I believe it is a Brahea sp. of some sort, but I do not know which one.  I am fairly confident it is not Brahea armata or Brahea calcarea.  I would really like some input on what anyone thinks this is.  This one does have small spikes on the petioles.

[GoatLockerGuns]

On 11/15/2022 at 9:42 PM, GoatLockerGuns said:

First One.  I think it is a Brahea sp., possibly Brahea calcarea.  I only say it might be a Brahea calcarea because I could not find any spikes on any of its petioles.

So, like a dumb but, I did not review the previous posts from @richtrav on the possible identity of the first Brahea sp. that I am trying to identify.  He identified it in a previous post as:

On 4/26/2021 at 3:32 AM, richtrav said:

Brahea decumbens wild collected from near Miquihuana Tamaulipas

That is a pretty specific ID; so, I give a lot of credence to it.  Especially since he knew Father Leo.  That said, I have found very little info on Brahea decumbens, and from what I have found, it does not seem to match what I am observing at Oblate (admittedly though, as my wife frequently reminds me, my powers of observation are not that great).  The pictures and descriptions I have found of Brahea decumbens (from various online sources including, but not limited to, Schoenfeld, 2002 and Barrett et al., 2019) would suggest an extremely slow growing palm with a creeping habit (hence the species epithet, which I understand to mean "lying down; prostrate" in Latin), that has spikes on the petioles, and that has very blueish/silver (almost white) fronds once it grows out of its juvenile stage.  I do not know how long it has been planted, or from what size it started from; however, the Oblate specimen is starting to trunk, the fronds appear to be only slightly blueish silver on one side (the bottom of the frond I think), and I could find no spikes on the petioles.  If there are spikes present, then they are so small that they were able to avoid detection by someone looking for them (namely, me).  I would love for this to be Brahea decumbens.  Is there anyone familiar with this species that could give a positive ID?  If not Brahea decumbens, is there another Brahea sp. that grows wild in the aforementioned area of Tamaulipas, Mexico (Brahea morrei maybe)? Also, Barret et al (2019) quotes Hodel (2006) as observing "...there are many intermediate forms between B. decumbens and the widespread B. dulcis, suggesting environmental or local variation and, quite possibly, gene flow among these species."  Could this be what is present at Oblate?

[richtrav]

That looks like Brahea decumbens when it is given the good life, in the wild where they’re stressed and burned off occasionally they look a lot more, mmm, xeric. Around Miquihuana and Jaumave there does look like there’s some interaction with dulcis/berlandieri at lower elevations. I have an old (c. 2005) picture of some inflorescences I collected of some intergrade types found near Jaumave. I believe Lynn Lowrey collected the “decumbens” for the San Antonio Botanical Garden in the same general area. 

[richtrav]

This is the palm in 2010 at Oblate. 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by richtrav