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New Climate Normals (1991-2020)

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kinzyjr
9 hours ago, Steve in Florida said:

There's a huge anomaly from the NOAA Tarpon Springs, FL data.  They reported low of 26F on 12/18/20 and 24F on 12/26/20.  Closeby Weatherunderground stations reported 39-40F and 35-38F on those dates    

There are large disagreements with numbers from NOAA records and WeatherUnderground records in many places.  Another example from another area is the January 2010 records from NOAA vs. WeatherUnderground here.  For the minimum low NOAA had 23F and KLAL vs. 26F (and later amended to 27F) on WeatherUnderground.  

My personal opinion is that, at least in the case you mentioned, the numbers on WeatherUnderground are more accurate.  If we used the revised figures from WeatherUnderground, here is what it would look like side-by-side with the NOAA records:

image.png.e8d9064ccb18af152af94c23c1a64b64.png

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Hombre de Palmas

https://prism.oregonstate.edu/

The PRISM Climate Group will begin releasing 1991-2020 Climate Normals this summer which I believe will include maps that should be a close approximation of the next update to the USDA Hardiness Maps.

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greysrigging

Darwin ,  Australia has seen a slight increase in overall mean max and min temps since 1950. Rainfall has increased as well.
1961-1990.
Mean Max - 32.0c
Mean Min - 23.3c
Mean rainfall - 1705.1mm
1990-2020.
Mean Max - 32.4c
Mean Min - 23.3c
Mean Rainfall - 1832.4mm
The data shows only only slight temp increases...as one would expect at only 12*S of the Equator.  Anomalies at our latitude are generally smaller than the higher latitudes. The increased rainfall/cloudiness is reflected in the monthly av temps ( often slightly lower on individual days, however this is offset by increased extereme heat days during the 'build up' months. For example, the City averages 12 +35c days per annum. However, the + 35c days in the 21st century are over 20 such days and 2019 and 2020 peaked at 44 such days !
1036847034_Capture.JPGAirport1991-2020Averages.thumb.JPG.a6b4c143bf3b4c8b390bd81a34617768.JPG

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kinzyjr

I miss the old Weather.com graphs, so I made one similar with the 1991-2021 climate normals for the "Lakeland 2" station and added the record lows and highs.

image.png.6342911ad8cd448a5a1beec32fbcb4af.png

This is a mock-up of the old Weather.com chart I preserved:

image.png.4495fa3b4ca7edfa681e1bae86a99a25.png

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Hombre de Palmas

Apparently the PRISM 30 year climate normals are now updated.

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Silas_Sancona
1 hour ago, Hombre de Palmas said:

Apparently the PRISM 30 year climate normals are now updated.

:greenthumb:  Saw this late last night ...After checking the page at least monthly since back in July when it was supposed to have been updated.

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Xerarch
On 7/22/2021 at 10:12 PM, kinzyjr said:

I miss the old Weather.com graphs, so I made one similar with the 1991-2021 climate normals for the "Lakeland 2" station and added the record lows and highs.

image.png.6342911ad8cd448a5a1beec32fbcb4af.png

This is a mock-up of the old Weather.com chart I preserved:

image.png.4495fa3b4ca7edfa681e1bae86a99a25.png

Totally agree about missing the old graphs, actually seems to me that every time Weather.com gets and "update" they remove or relocate all the features I like most, it has been really frustrating.

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kinzyjr
5 hours ago, Xerarch said:

Totally agree about missing the old graphs, actually seems to me that every time Weather.com gets and "update" they remove or relocate all the features I like most, it has been really frustrating.

I agree.  The site is not nearly as valuable as it was only a few years ago.  That said, I've attached a graph I made using the 1991-2020 Climate Normals for Corpus Christie (USW00012924):

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/us-climate-normals/#dataset=normals-monthly&timeframe=30&location=TX&station=USW00012924

along with grabbing the record minimums and maximums from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_Christi,_Texas

I've also added the Template I created to make the graphs so anyone who wants to recreate one can do so.

202112010000_WeatherTemplate.xlsx 202112010000_CorpusChristie_USW00012924.xlsx

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Xerarch
22 minutes ago, kinzyjr said:

I agree.  The site is not nearly as valuable as it was only a few years ago.  That said, I've attached a graph I made using the 1991-2020 Climate Normals for Corpus Christie (USW00012924):

https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/us-climate-normals/#dataset=normals-monthly&timeframe=30&location=TX&station=USW00012924

along with grabbing the record minimums and maximums from Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corpus_Christi,_Texas

I've also added the Template I created to make the graphs so anyone who wants to recreate one can do so.

202112010000_WeatherTemplate.xlsx 18.85 kB · 1 download 202112010000_CorpusChristie_USW00012924.xlsx 19.48 kB · 1 download

Awesome, thanks

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Aceraceae

This new PRISM data is timed with the new maps coming out on Wikimedia right now that I posted about in the "Future USDA maps" thread. 

Very similar zones,  hardiness 7 = Cfa line, zone 10 = within 2 degrees of tropical 64 degree line at least in the east. 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Köppen_Climate_Types_US.png

 

Köppen_Climate_Types_US.png

Edited by Aceraceae
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ColdBonsai
1 hour ago, Aceraceae said:

This new PRISM data is timed with the new maps coming out on Wikimedia right now that I posted about in the "Future USDA maps" thread. 

Very similar zones,  hardiness 7 = Cfa line, zone 10 = within 2 degrees of tropical 64 degree line at least in the east. 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Köppen_Climate_Types_US.png

 

Köppen_Climate_Types_US.png

I think I'm in the coldest Csa there is. Well... us and the Tri-cities in Washington. Interesting to see we might be a zone 8 within 30 years. 

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Aceraceae

Western maps should be coming soon. Western states with mountains are really hard to discern here. 

Here's the zone map prediction that's a little more clear. This map is old enough that on the left it's using 1975 to 2005 (2012 USDA zone map uses this! not 1981 to 2010)

or 1981 2010 not the 2020/1 update. 

zones plant hardiness 30 years vs last 10 zone 7 doesn't make it.jpg

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Jimbean

1976 to 2005, compiled using different data. 

5f_73_3cad7b5aeb4fe6a610e74495ad10_19-15_a.png

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Trustandi
On 12/31/2021 at 3:30 PM, Aceraceae said:

Western maps should be coming soon. Western states with mountains are really hard to discern here. 

Here's the zone map prediction that's a little more clear. This map is old enough that on the left it's using 1975 to 2005 (2012 USDA zone map uses this! not 1981 to 2010)

or 1981 2010 not the 2020/1 update. 

zones plant hardiness 30 years vs last 10 zone 7 doesn't make it.jpg

This is very cool. Any news about West Coast - PNW area? Thank you.

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Aceraceae

Here's Ohio where Cfa has reached the bottom of Lake Erie in northeast Ohio. There's also a tiny bit of Oceanic along Lake Erie in Ohio and New York. It's surprising that anywhere in Ohio has hottest summer month below 22/72. 

Michigan didn't quite get any Cfa as Detroit is about half a degree C too cold (1 degree F) in January. 

Not sure about PNW looks like they can count on half a zone. 

Köppen_Climate_Types_Ohio.png

Edited by Aceraceae
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Aceraceae
On 12/29/2020 at 7:46 PM, JLM said:

If they do what they did after the new normals came out in 2010, we should see a whole new map by 2022.

But that's the odd thing. That 2012 hardiness zone map says it goes by 1975 to 2005 data for some reason. 

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bubba

No disrespect whatsoever to the outstanding work on the maps. That stated, it is very simple to determine. What grows…

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sonoranfans

Advective events have less temperature advantage near the water, and we haven't had a major radiative freezing event since 2010.  SW st pete is 10b if I am 10a, based on the 2010 radiative event.  East pinellas was a bit colder(30F) than west pinellas(34-36F) in dec 14,15 2010, particularly southwest pinellas that was 36F low.  We have definitely seen zone 10 weather since 2010, but not radiative cold events which are our coldesr fronts.  Many cocos died here in my area in 2010(28F x2 days radiational event), but they are planted out again awaiting the reaper.  Having a densely planted yard is worth at least half of half a zone(2-3F) in a radiative event.   I can control that planting density so my yard is not as vulnerable as it was in 2010 when it was a new house(bare yard) and all my uncovered zone 10 palms died.  All the red going pretty far inland in this map suggests this is an advective dominated map.  Radiative cold events may happen and mess this map up in the near future.  As far as tampa bay warming, it is shallow and cools rapidly vs the gulf and this is why SW pinellas(36F) and anna maria island(38F) were so much warmer than east pinellas or tampa in 2010 radiative cold event.  During that 2010 cold event, we saw a half dozen 20lb+ plus groupers dying of cold on the shores of tampa bay but not the gulf due to the fact that the shallow bay cools off so much faster in winter with a sudden cold front.  In conclusion, it looks like a good advective cold map but I will wait for a good radiational cold event to see what has changed in terms of growing palms long term here.  I have zero interest in cutting down 25' tall dead palms.

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Aceraceae

^ +1 watch out for frost free vs freeze free. In hilly and colder areas, frost begins happening at around 42 degrees F reported and locally observed air temps, with heavy frost at 40 or below. 

The atmosphere is thin and cold. 

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rogets395
12 hours ago, sonoranfans said:

Advective events have less temperature advantage near the water, and we haven't had a major radiative freezing event since 2010.  SW st pete is 10b if I am 10a, based on the 2010 radiative event.  East pinellas was a bit colder(30F) than west pinellas(34-36F) in dec 14,15 2010, particularly southwest pinellas that was 36F low.  We have definitely seen zone 10 weather since 2010, but not radiative cold events which are our coldesr fronts.  Many cocos died here in my area in 2010(28F x2 days radiational event), but they are planted out again awaiting the reaper.  Having a densely planted yard is worth at least half of half a zone(2-3F) in a radiative event.   I can control that planting density so my yard is not as vulnerable as it was in 2010 when it was a new house(bare yard) and all my uncovered zone 10 palms died.  All the red going pretty far inland in this map suggests this is an advective dominated map.  Radiative cold events may happen and mess this map up in the near future.  As far as tampa bay warming, it is shallow and cools rapidly vs the gulf and this is why SW pinellas(36F) and anna maria island(38F) were so much warmer than east pinellas or tampa in 2010 radiative cold event.  During that 2010 cold event, we saw a half dozen 20lb+ plus groupers dying of cold on the shores of tampa bay but not the gulf due to the fact that the shallow bay cools off so much faster in winter with a sudden cold front.  In conclusion, it looks like a good advective cold map but I will wait for a good radiational cold event to see what has changed in terms of growing palms long term here.  I have zero interest in cutting down 25' tall dead palms.

I like to use the zone map here:

https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/

then zoom into my exact locations setting the layer PHZM to 50 percent transparency so I can actually see the roads and map features.  

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sonoranfans
13 hours ago, rogets395 said:

I like to use the zone map here:

https://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/

then zoom into my exact locations setting the layer PHZM to 50 percent transparency so I can actually see the roads and map features.  

yeah that one shows all of pinellas peninsula as 10a but it varies within 10a a lot I think.  I remember driving us60 from the east(off 275) to clearwater beach after the freeze inn 2010.  The D lutecens on east side the newer leaves were heavily bronzed, but on the west side near the gulf they had no damage at all.  All zone ten palms appeard to be somewhat bronzed in east most pinellas.  Its my own bias, visually seeing the before and the damage right after the front on my commute.  I checked temperture differentials for that cold event.  There was very low wind(0-2mph) out of due north direction.  Lows were 34F clearwater near the water and the coco onthe beach there survived it ok.  East side where the bronzing was it was ~30F.  SW pinellas station was 36F low(10b) and anna maria island to the south was the warmest on west cost florida at 38F.  my place 1 mi west of 75/275 junction hit 28F.  

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Teegurr

Here's my go at the map. Based on 1992-2021 normals. 

 

16433413837048002832301481563189.thumb.jpg.b73d279a50042e3434019ce645a33866.jpg

20220127_213531.jpg

16433414713183478924895759807969.jpg

 

Edited by Teegurr
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Jimbean
1 hour ago, Teegurr said:

Here's my go at the map. Based on 1992-2021 normals. 

 

16433413837048002832301481563189.thumb.jpg.b73d279a50042e3434019ce645a33866.jpg

20220127_213531.jpg

16433414713183478924895759807969.jpg

 

I appreciate the effort, it is interesting to look at.

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Teegurr
20 minutes ago, Jimbean said:

I appreciate the effort, it is interesting to look at.

Thank you! It was fun making it. 

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Aceraceae

Bruh. That's amazing. At first I thought the yellow was the existing 8a zone that was north of Crestiview in the 2012 update (1976 to 2005 map) expanded to Tallahassee. 

Did you actually find in depth annual minimum charts for smaller towns to get such detail or just extrapolate from the larger cities' climate charts? 

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Teegurr
11 minutes ago, Aceraceae said:

Bruh. That's amazing. At first I thought the yellow was the existing 8a zone that was north of Crestiview in the 2012 update (1976 to 2005 map) expanded to Tallahassee. 

Did you actually find in depth annual minimum charts for smaller towns to get such detail or just extrapolate from the larger cities' climate charts? 

Thanks so much! I looked at NOAA NOWDATA for all the towns I could, there were some smaller towns there, like De Funiak Spring, Avon Park, Leesburg, Immokalee, and Fernandina Beach. I really made the map mostly from NOWDATA, with a little guidance from previous palmtalk users' maps. 

Also, I colored it a bit wrong, it looks like Tallahassee is 8b on here. In reality it's on the border of 8b/9a, at 20 degrees avg annual minimum.

Edited by Teegurr

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Alicante
3 hours ago, Teegurr said:

Here's my go at the map. Based on 1992-2021 normals. 

 

16433413837048002832301481563189.thumb.jpg.b73d279a50042e3434019ce645a33866.jpg

20220127_213531.jpg

16433414713183478924895759807969.jpg

 

Good job! It looks extremely accurate. If one day you have enough time you can also do it on a blank map with your computer to upload it on the Internet! ^_^

Edited by Alicante
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Ubuntwo
3 hours ago, Alicante said:

Good job! It looks extremely accurate. If one day you have enough time you can also do it on a blank map with your computer to upload it on the Internet! ^_^

I went and did just that, sans most of the smaller cities. Nice map Teegurr :DFlHardiness-01.thumb.png.4709d12c4941e1779a1c6fae838462bf.png

 

Edited by Ubuntwo
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Jimbean

A bit too liberal in my opinion, but I like looking at these.

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Teegurr
3 hours ago, Ubuntwo said:

I went and did just that, sans most of the smaller cities. Nice map Teegurr :DFlHardiness-01.thumb.png.4709d12c4941e1779a1c6fae838462bf.png

 

Wow, that's really amazing! Thank you. What program did you use?

Edited by Teegurr

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sonoranfans
7 hours ago, Teegurr said:

Thanks so much! I looked at NOAA NOWDATA for all the towns I could, there were some smaller towns there, like De Funiak Spring, Avon Park, Leesburg, Immokalee, and Fernandina Beach. I really made the map mostly from NOWDATA, with a little guidance from previous palmtalk users' maps. 

Also, I colored it a bit wrong, it looks like Tallahassee is 8b on here. In reality it's on the border of 8b/9a, at 20 degrees avg annual minimum.

Nice job!  Seems like with all that data you could even subdivide zones a bit and get something more useful than the USDA map!  like you could further dvide zone 9 a,b to  9a1,9a2,9b1,9b2.   I guess after tonight you will have more cold data to look at.

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JLM
On 1/28/2022 at 3:51 AM, Ubuntwo said:

I went and did just that, sans most of the smaller cities. Nice map Teegurr :DFlHardiness-01.thumb.png.4709d12c4941e1779a1c6fae838462bf.png

 

I have to know what program you used. Adobe Illustrator or something?? It looks amazing!

Edited by JLM
spelling

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Ubuntwo
26 minutes ago, JLM said:

I have to know what program you used. Adobe Illustrator or something?? It looks amazing!

Yep - Illustrator. Basically tracing over @Teegurr's map with the pen tool. I'd like to try it with higher-res data (PRISM?) to properly resolve microclimates. The Lake Wales Ridge would light up like a christmas tree. Is Archbold still 9A?

Edited by Ubuntwo
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GottmitAlex

 

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Alan_Tampa

I really wish I wasn't color vision deficient. 

 

Can we just do maps with coconuts, like yes, no, maybe as the only decider,?

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JLM
4 hours ago, Alan_Tampa said:

I really wish I wasn't color vision deficient. 

 

Can we just do maps with coconuts, like yes, no, maybe as the only decider,?

Like this?

FlHardiness-coconut.png

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Alan_Tampa

That's perfect.  

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Alicante

Is there any post your 2021 climate averages thread like the one we had in 2021 regarding 2020 data? 
 


Unfortunately I don't have 1991-2020 data (yet) but I would like to share the 2021 data from my area! 

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Jimbean

Not to be taken seriously

Edit

The top part of the picture is distorted.  I don't know how to fix it.

 

Edited by Jimbean

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Jimbean

non-serious zone map.gif

Edited by Jimbean

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