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rossifer2010

Why do people exaggerate how cold Italy gets during winter?

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rossifer2010

Its always been peculiar to me since I started looking at posts in this forum; people keep talking of this "severe cold" and "drought" the Italian South sees that is supposedly absent in every other subtropical environment. It is a notion I do not understand; as we all know, Sicily, and Apulia make up a significant area of the Italian South, and both of those areas are Zone 10 climates at least. Even in other parts of the Italian South, winter minima often aren't that cold; in Palermo, and Catania, for instance, it is rare for winter temps to fall below the mid 30s, and when they do, a quick warm-up to a mild afternoon is almost always ensued. Those cities are solid USDA 11B - weak 12As. Cities like Bari and Taranto, and up the Tyrrhenian coast up to Naples get a little colder, but still not cold; these are 11A-11B cities. These winter minima are more than warm enough to be respectable subtropical growing regions.

People always bring up the cold in winter, if you look back in history, you can see that other subtropical regions have had their time of intense cold. For instance, South Texas, once had winters cold enough to the point that multiple blizzards happened.

It just so happens that the Italian South's time of cold is this modern period, causing people to think that the cold is peculiar to the region, or that the region wasn't naturally warm. But all one has to do is look at the Pachino Peninsula, Lampedusa and Malta, a tropical climate OUTSIDE of the tropics, to realize just how extraordinary the Italian South is. That, and the many coral reefs, and animals and plants from tropical Africa and Asia that exist in the region without problem.

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Silas_Sancona

Oy Vey!   Here we go again:rolleyes:...   Different name, same statement, Meh.. ~\_(**)_/~

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rossifer2010
6 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

Oy Vey!   Here we go again:rolleyes:...   Different name, same statement, Meh.. ~\_(**)_/~

I am not the user "Texyn", and I joined this forum to post factual statements.

Edited by rossifer2010

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Silas_Sancona
1 minute ago, rossifer2010 said:

I am not the user "Texyn", and I joined this forum to post factual statements.

  :floor:  ~\_(**)_/~

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greysrigging

Keeps getting banned from City Data Forums too for this trolling nonsense as well......

Edited by greysrigging
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rossifer2010

 

15 minutes ago, Silas_Sancona said:

  :floor:  ~\_(**)_/~

It just means that my ownage of all my opponents is too epic for you to handle.

Edited by rossifer2010

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PalmatierMeg

Haven't we already killed this dead horse ad nauseum? I read enough useless info about southern Italy weather to earn a Masters Degree in climate studies. I don't need a PhD. This on top of the spacey, ephemeral piffle about mountainous tropical islands in zones 6-13.

Poster, where do you live?

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Silas_Sancona
Just now, rossifer2010 said:

 

It just means I am straight-up owning this debate.

:floor:I could tell you what it really means,  but i'd likely get banned :o 

..Pretty funny when someone :beat_deadhorse:  but thinking using a different user name would fool anyone.  Have fun;)

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greysrigging
5 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Haven't we already killed this dead horse ad nauseum? I read enough useless info about southern Italy weather to earn a Masters Degree in climate studies. I don't need a PhD. This on top of the spacey, ephemeral piffle about mountainous tropical islands in zones 6-13.

Poster, where do you live?

At least when I post b/s, I'm honest about it, its an Aussie thing to never let the truth stand in the way of a good story. 
But yeah, really is flogging a dead horse....me ? I would would come up with new material and really get the forum members buzzing....lol

Edited by greysrigging
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rossifer2010

People just need to use their common sense in these kinds of things. Yes, data is a powerful tool, but one cannot let it override common sense, logic, and other bits of relevant info.

The Cold Epoch is a theory the same way that gravity, evolution, or the big bang, are theories:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

P.S.: It seems that @Silas_Sancona is quite drunk, and loopy at the moment. Maybe he needs to eat some tropical fruit.

Edited by rossifer2010

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greysrigging
2 minutes ago, rossifer2010 said:

People just need to use their common sense in these kinds of things. Yes, data is a powerful tool, but one cannot let it override common sense, logic, and other bits of relevant info.

The Cold Epoch is a theory the same way that gravity, evolution, or the big bang, are theories:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

P.S.: It seems that @Silas_Sancona is quite drunk, and loopy at the moment. Maybe he needs to eat some tropical fruit.

Why not step out into your Noto garden and pick some Durians for him ? I'm sure he would appreciate it....

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rossifer2010
17 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Haven't we already killed this dead horse ad nauseum? I read enough useless info about southern Italy weather to earn a Masters Degree in climate studies. I don't need a PhD. This on top of the spacey, ephemeral piffle about mountainous tropical islands in zones 6-13.

Poster, where do you live?

It isn't. The thread continues, for the purposes of refuting the strong misconceptions held on this forum. I will make as many threads as necessary, until you people finally see how wrong you all are about the Italian South's climate. I have achieved a Master's Degree in PhD, and the Italian South does have Zone 11B-12A climates, especially in peninsular Sicily, and Lampedusa, a TROPICAL climate OUTSIDE the tropics.

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greysrigging
2 minutes ago, rossifer2010 said:

It isn't. The thread continues, for the purposes of refuting the strong misconceptions held on this forum. I will make as many threads as necessary, until you people finally see how wrong you all are about the Italian South's climate. I have achieved a Master's Degree in PhD, and the Italian South does have Zone 11B-12A climates, especially in peninsular Sicily, and Lampedusa, a TROPICAL climate OUTSIDE the tropics.

Myself, I think you probably have a PhD in the manufacture and use of illicit substances, and have been testing them on yourself.....
Either that, or all the tropical fruits from the Noto gardens have been chucked in a great big barrel, fermented nicely, and you've been imbibing ( copiously ) tonight,,,,,:drool:

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Silas_Sancona
9 minutes ago, greysrigging said:

Why not step out into your Noto garden and pick some Durians for him ? I'm sure he would appreciate it....

I'd blame the conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter in Aquarius on 'tis 'nother round of " whack this Mole " .. but that's an insult to two great Planets, and Aquarius-es, lol

 

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Oppido
1 hour ago, rossifer2010 said:

Its always been peculiar to me since I started looking at posts in this forum; people keep talking of this "severe cold" and "drought" the Italian South sees that is supposedly absent in every other subtropical environment. It is a notion I do not understand; as we all know, Sicily, and Apulia make up a significant area of the Italian South, and both of those areas are Zone 10 climates at least. Even in other parts of the Italian South, winter minima often aren't that cold; in Palermo, and Catania, for instance, it is rare for winter temps to fall below the mid 30s, and when they do, a quick warm-up to a mild afternoon is almost always ensued. Those cities are solid USDA 11B - weak 12As. Cities like Bari and Taranto, and up the Tyrrhenian coast up to Naples get a little colder, but still not cold; these are 11A-11B cities. These winter minima are more than warm enough to be respectable subtropical growing regions.

People always bring up the cold in winter, if you look back in history, you can see that other subtropical regions have had their time of intense cold. For instance, South Texas, once had winters cold enough to the point that multiple blizzards happened.

It just so happens that the Italian South's time of cold is this modern period, causing people to think that the cold is peculiar to the region, or that the region wasn't naturally warm. But all one has to do is look at the Pachino Peninsula, Lampedusa and Malta, a tropical climate OUTSIDE of the tropics, to realize just how extraordinary the Italian South is. That, and the many coral reefs, and animals and plants from tropical Africa and Asia that exist in the region without problem.

look, I'm from southern Italy and I can tell you that whoever told you about a similar climate (even zone 12) has shot a big falsehood. In Southern Italy going around the only more "tropical" plants are avocado, bananas orinoco and annona cherimola, which as you can see are plants that can even resist some frosts. Then it is true that very intense cold waves have recently occurred and in some cases record (31 December 2014, 9 February 2015, 7 January 2017, 5 January 2019 with mevicate on the coasts almost everywhere). However, I would like to clarify that snowfall on the coast in most places is not a rarity, but it is an occasional occurrence. For example in Reggio Calabria it snows on average with accumulation about once every 5 years and without accumulation almost every year. The absolute minimum temperatures each year reach + 2/3 ° C and the winter maximums rarely exceed + 16/17 ° C. Snow is rarer in Syracuse and Catania which, however, have pronounced thermal inversions with minimums always around + 2/3 ° C absolute. Furthermore, as Lampedusa also said on another thread, mango cultivation in Sicily is done under greenhouses, and therefore not outside. The only warmest area I know is the Piana di Gioia Tauro (where I also live) with average winter highs of about 17 ° C in January and February and lows of about 11 ° C, and snow (the real one and not graupel ) is rare, in practice with accumulation there were only 2 snowfalls on the coast (1915 and 2015), while there were other snowfalls in the years between 1900 and 2020 (1901, 1942, 1949, 1956, 1963, 1999, 2014). But as you can see in the same climatic period Italy is much snowier and cooler than Spain and less snow and warmer than Greece (excluding Crete and Rhodes which are on the same level). Therefore a climate that is anything but tropical, and only in the warmest areas does it reach subtropical climates.

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Silas_Sancona
1 minute ago, Oppido said:

look, I'm from southern Italy and I can tell you that whoever told you about a similar climate (even zone 12) has shot a big falsehood. In Southern Italy going around the only more "tropical" plants are avocado, bananas orinoco and annona cherimola, which as you can see are plants that can even resist some frosts. Then it is true that very intense cold waves have recently occurred and in some cases record (31 December 2014, 9 February 2015, 7 January 2017, 5 January 2019 with mevicate on the coasts almost everywhere). However, I would like to clarify that snowfall on the coast in most places is not a rarity, but it is an occasional occurrence. For example in Reggio Calabria it snows on average with accumulation about once every 5 years and without accumulation almost every year. The absolute minimum temperatures each year reach + 2/3 ° C and the winter maximums rarely exceed + 16/17 ° C. Snow is rarer in Syracuse and Catania which, however, have pronounced thermal inversions with minimums always around + 2/3 ° C absolute. Furthermore, as Lampedusa also said on another thread, mango cultivation in Sicily is done under greenhouses, and therefore not outside. The only warmest area I know is the Piana di Gioia Tauro (where I also live) with average winter highs of about 17 ° C in January and February and lows of about 11 ° C, and snow (the real one and not graupel ) is rare, in practice with accumulation there were only 2 snowfalls on the coast (1915 and 2015), while there were other snowfalls in the years between 1900 and 2020 (1901, 1942, 1949, 1956, 1963, 1999, 2014). But as you can see in the same climatic period Italy is much snowier and cooler than Spain and less snow and warmer than Greece (excluding Crete and Rhodes which are on the same level). Therefore a climate that is anything but tropical, and only in the warmest areas does it reach subtropical climates.

<< Waves hands frantically>>  Don't fall for it.. It's a Trap! ( From Star Wars ):D

...We've been battling this Mosquito-esque pestilence for some time, just under whatever name he/she/it appears under...

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greysrigging
2 minutes ago, Oppido said:

look, I'm from southern Italy and I can tell you that whoever told you about a similar climate (even zone 12) has shot a big falsehood. In Southern Italy going around the only more "tropical" plants are avocado, bananas orinoco and annona cherimola, which as you can see are plants that can even resist some frosts. Then it is true that very intense cold waves have recently occurred and in some cases record (31 December 2014, 9 February 2015, 7 January 2017, 5 January 2019 with mevicate on the coasts almost everywhere). However, I would like to clarify that snowfall on the coast in most places is not a rarity, but it is an occasional occurrence. For example in Reggio Calabria it snows on average with accumulation about once every 5 years and without accumulation almost every year. The absolute minimum temperatures each year reach + 2/3 ° C and the winter maximums rarely exceed + 16/17 ° C. Snow is rarer in Syracuse and Catania which, however, have pronounced thermal inversions with minimums always around + 2/3 ° C absolute. Furthermore, as Lampedusa also said on another thread, mango cultivation in Sicily is done under greenhouses, and therefore not outside. The only warmest area I know is the Piana di Gioia Tauro (where I also live) with average winter highs of about 17 ° C in January and February and lows of about 11 ° C, and snow (the real one and not graupel ) is rare, in practice with accumulation there were only 2 snowfalls on the coast (1915 and 2015), while there were other snowfalls in the years between 1900 and 2020 (1901, 1942, 1949, 1956, 1963, 1999, 2014). But as you can see in the same climatic period Italy is much snowier and cooler than Spain and less snow and warmer than Greece (excluding Crete and Rhodes which are on the same level). Therefore a climate that is anything but tropical, and only in the warmest areas does it reach subtropical climates.

Oh mate, now you've spoiled everything.....just as I was really starting to enjoy this fairytale, you had to post sensible stuff.... like facts.
Oh well, was fun there for a bit.
Ps , thanks for the reality check.

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rossifer2010
3 minutes ago, Oppido said:

look, I'm from southern Italy and I can tell you that whoever told you about a similar climate (even zone 12) has shot a big falsehood. In Southern Italy going around the only more "tropical" plants are avocado, bananas orinoco and annona cherimola, which as you can see are plants that can even resist some frosts. Then it is true that very intense cold waves have recently occurred and in some cases record (31 December 2014, 9 February 2015, 7 January 2017, 5 January 2019 with mevicate on the coasts almost everywhere). However, I would like to clarify that snowfall on the coast in most places is not a rarity, but it is an occasional occurrence. For example in Reggio Calabria it snows on average with accumulation about once every 5 years and without accumulation almost every year. The absolute minimum temperatures each year reach + 2/3 ° C and the winter maximums rarely exceed + 16/17 ° C. Snow is rarer in Syracuse and Catania which, however, have pronounced thermal inversions with minimums always around + 2/3 ° C absolute. Furthermore, as Lampedusa also said on another thread, mango cultivation in Sicily is done under greenhouses, and therefore not outside. The only warmest area I know is the Piana di Gioia Tauro (where I also live) with average winter highs of about 17 ° C in January and February and lows of about 11 ° C, and snow (the real one and not graupel ) is rare, in practice with accumulation there were only 2 snowfalls on the coast (1915 and 2015), while there were other snowfalls in the years between 1900 and 2020 (1901, 1942, 1949, 1956, 1963, 1999, 2014). But as you can see in the same climatic period Italy is much snowier and cooler than Spain and less snow and warmer than Greece (excluding Crete and Rhodes which are on the same level). Therefore a climate that is anything but tropical, and only in the warmest areas does it reach subtropical climates.

Cut the BS; those average temps, and snow events were skewed by the unusual cold blasts that have been affecting Italy for a long time, under a climactic phenomenon known as the Cold Epoch. During a Cold Epoch, overarching atmospheric trends alter in a way such that a region's cold susceptibility is higher than before, making it easier for arctic cold to invade, and bring colder than normal temps. This has been happening to the Italian South all throughout the advent of modern weather records, meaning that the averages you see across all the cities are, in fact, colder than what they would be under a natural climactic state. 

In a natural climactic state, whatever waviness is present would not be enough to bring cold far south in Eurpe; the Italian South is naturally a warm place, even during winter, where lows in the dead of the season can be at or above 60F (practically tropical temperatures). This is how organisms like the lion were able to evolve in the region; if the region was naturally prone to cold like you say, then large tropical mammals like the lion would not be existing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_lions_in_Europe

In Southeast Europe, the lion inhabited part of the Balkan peninsula up to Hungary and Ukraine during the Neolithic period. It survived in Bulgaria until the 4th or 3rd century BC. It became extinct in the Peloponnese around 1,000 BC. It disappeared from Macedonia around the first century AD, from Western Thrace not before the 2nd century AD and from Thessaly possibly in the 4th century AD, as Themistius regrets that in his time it disappeared from the latter and no more lions could be furnished for beast-shows.

Lions lived all throughout the Italian South and Southeastern Europe in the past, from Tuscany in Italy, all the way to Bulgaria and Macedonia, where warm enough conditions were present. Such warm conditions, as indicated by the article, are found as far north as Hungary. Just one of the many things that prove the true, warm nature of the Italian South during winter. The absence of lions in many of these areas is due solely to hunters and poachers.

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Chester B

Looks like the main Discussion forum has been hit as well.

 

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greysrigging

I'm sure the mods / admin will take the appropriate actions....over at City Data ( weather  ) Forum, they shut the goose down fairly promptly.

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Silas_Sancona
1 minute ago, greysrigging said:

I'm sure the mods / admin will take the appropriate actions....over at City Data ( weather  ) Forum, they shut the goose down fairly promptly.

                                                                                                ~\_(**)_/~

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JLM

When i search "what is a Cold Epoch", i get results for, guess what? The Iron Age Cold Epoch
"The Iron Age Cold Epoch was a period of unusually cold climate in the North Atlantic region, lasting from about 900 BC to about 300 BC, with an especially cold wave in 450 BC during the expansion of ancient Greece. It was followed by the Roman Warm Period." - Wikipedia (I hate wiki but rossifer is using it so why not?)
This is 2020, not 900 BC.
I have spoken the only words im puting into this BS. Stay sane y'all!

 

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Sal
23 minutes ago, Oppido said:

 mango cultivation in Sicily is done under greenhouses, and therefore not outside.

Hi Oppido, you’re not right. Mango is cultivated for commercial purposes here in Sicily, i know many companies that do it in open areas. Mango’s flowers need to be protected because they are wind sensitive, but a cypresses curtain is enough. Also Avocados, Litchis and Maracujas are commercially cultivated.
Distribution agencies send them outside Italy, but i don’t know why; Sicilian Avocado in Sicily is more expensive than a Spanish or Israelian one.
Only Papaya needs to be covered for selling necessities, but i cultivate it in open ground.

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