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Lampedusa

Is ot possible to grow coconut in Lampedusa?

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Lampedusa

Hi, I'm a new forum member. I have been following the discussions regarding palm trees for some time and little by little I became passionate about the successes reported by the coconut palm in environments such as Madeira and especially Paphos, so I thought that on this forum maybe I could have some important suggestions for growing a palm from coconut in my holiday home in Lampedusa.
I live in Porto Empedocle in the province of Agrigento and I go to Lampedusa only in the summer, so potentially I could not give a possible coconut palm the right winter support. But I'd like to try it anyway. So first of all here are the official climatic averages of the area where I go on vacation, taken from an official source (the Observatory of Waters): https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stazione_meteorologica_dell'Isola_di_Lampedusa. Then I would like to clarify something else; my intent is not to grow only the coconut palm, but I would like to try other plants that maybe in Porto Empedocle I can't grow, such as pineapple, mango, papaya, banana Dwarf red, Jackfruit, coffee and more. I admit that I have recently entered the world of plants and I have no experience in this regard, in fact I do not know if the other plants mentioned can also be grown in Porto Empedocle. In terms of tropical plants in Lampedusa I saw the usual orinoco bananas, some avocados, a pitaya I think from seed and some palms like Kentia, Phoenix canariensis and Syagrus Romanzoffiana. My father said that in 1998 he had grown a mango seedling but when in 1999 he made graupel with minimum + 2.2 ° C and maximum below + 10 ° C the mango is dried out from the cold. In fact, I'm not sure if mangoes can be grown, given that, and you can be sure of this (I found photos and documentation about it), mangoes in Italy exist only in greenhouses, even in the warmest areas.
Now, having seen everything I have told you, how many possibilities do you think I have to grow a coconut palm in Lampedusa?

Thanks for the replies
 

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Kim

Hello and welcome to PalmTalk! 

Without being familiar with the absolute details of the climate of your location in Sicily, I will toss out a few comments. Do you see any Cocos growing anywhere there? In Tunisia, Malta, or Greece? My guess is no. So it may be possible to grow one for a few years, but you would not expect to see it bear fruit. There are people who have grown them indoors, or in greenhouses, or a perfect, sheltered microclimate where they are warm and protected all year, but eventually one meets with defeat, especially outdoors.

You can probably grow bananas, and pineapples -- maybe, if your warm season is long enough?  Perhaps certain kinds of mangoes, but I'm not very optimistic about fruit, and I have my doubts for coffee which is particular about temperatures and sun/shade exposure. I would say a mango is easier to grow than a coconut outside its natural habitat, so if you cannot grow mango, it's not realistic to grow a fruiting coconut. But ... you can grow a pretty potted coconut inside up to your ceiling. :) Based on the weather information you provided it is not feasible outside. Cocos don't like to remain under 10C for more than a few hours, and only if it typically heats up to 26C the following day. 

I am not saying "Do not try," I am saying, "Don't expect too much."

 

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JEFF IN MODESTO

Lol, just because you don’t see something growing, doesn’t exactly mean much.

I grow all sorts of palms and fruit that I’m pretty sure no one grows in my part of California.

jeff

 

 

 

Edited by JEFF IN MODESTO
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gilles06

Lampedusa, you could grow mango trees and papaya easily. Mangos  are grown for business in Andalucia in Spain, especially the oosteen variety. You could also grow a lot of tropical palms but coconut will be difficult...

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Xenon
8 hours ago, Lampedusa said:

such as pineapple, mango, papaya, banana Dwarf red, Jackfruit, coffee and more.

You can probably grow all of this as they are grown in similar climates in southern Spain and southern California with success.  The short answer to the coconuts would be no. 

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Sal

Hi, I live in Ragusa and i tried some palms and fruits.

You can’t grow coconut in Lampedusa, neither in Coastal North Africa, because our climate have long winter and coconut don’t like long down temperature. My winter minimum is 15 (day)/ 8 (night) Celsius in January and mid February; very long time and very high differences night/day for coconut palm.

I suppose you can try with an adult one but, as Kim says, if it survives you’ll never see fruits surely. I’m trying a Saribus Rotundifolius but it’s very hard every winter; three years in the garden and i’m surprised how it is still alive.

If you want a Coconut , plant a Beccariophenix and buy fruits at the market.


You can go well with Mangoes, Papayas, Maracuja, Bananas (cavendish also), Litchis, Jackfruits, Pineapples, Sapote, Mangosteen, Avocados, Guavas, Carambola, etc etc.

Coffee needs to be covered and Cacao is off limits.

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NorCalKing
16 hours ago, JEFF IN MODESTO said:

Lol, just because you don’t see something growing, doesn’t exactly mean much.

I grow all sorts of palms and fruit that I’m pretty sure no one grows in my part of California.

jeff

 

 

 

Jeff, very impressive. My bananas over the hill here in Livermore just don't quite ripen up in time. I literally miss by a few weeks most years.

Subbed to your channel.

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Stelios

Welcome to Palmtalk! Here in Paphos we can't grow coconuts. You have to protect it at least the first few years and at the best microclimate. I have my coconut since 2009 and I was protecting it, trying to grow it as big as possible to give it better chances to survive. I was protecting it less and less over the years and now is only the 3rd winter that will be unprotected. I also had to plant it in mostly beach sand and south facing so the house created better microclimate. Despite of all these still there is no guarantee it will make it. The first winter unprotected, we had record rainfall and I almost lost it from rot. The next winter (last year) was also very rainy and it took time to recover. But most of our winters are not very rainy so I hope this year will be better. Just in case I will try to protect the crown from any rainfall with some paper and cocos dry leaves. Is the first time I do this, since I noticed that mostly the new frond and spear have serious issues after winter. On the dry days like today I remove them.

20201127_143625.thumb.jpg.7b49e733f273e6507e6fad51e5648205.jpg20201127_143611.thumb.jpg.6f2f276bba94ef1a4c3d4bfb4e56f2dc.jpg20201127_143940.thumb.jpg.320e4a4c52da98b2ea5efe1df58fd09e.jpg

Of course I agree with the others about growing beccariophoenix and other beautiful palms and tropical plants and fruits that I am sure you can grow there. But looking at your winter lows from what I could find about Lampedousa, many nights look better than I have so why not give it a try for a cocos. I am not sure about your winter daily high temps, rainfall or cold winds. For this you know better than us. 

I also don't concentrate only for my cocos and I am happy that I have some more varieties as an option. Keep us posted for any of your future projects.

Edited by Stelios
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pietropuccio
5 hours ago, Sal said:

You can go well with Mangoes, Papayas, Maracuja, Bananas (cavendish also), Litchis, Jackfruits, Pineapples, Sapote, Mangosteen, Avocados, Guavas, Carambola, etc etc.

Coffee needs to be covered and Cacao is off limits.

Hi Sal,
I agree with everything with a small variation, ananas should be protected in winter, for coffee there is no need.

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rossifer2010

@Lampedusa – The Coastal Italian South is alot warmer than people in this country believe.

The region is warm enough to sustain commercial production of tropical crops, such as avocado and date palm, even into areas as far inland as Enna, or in areas as far north as Reggio Calabria. Tropical crops like mangoes, papayas, and bananas can be seen growing in many gardens of the region. The Italian South also contains the only areas in Europe outside of the Canaries that can grow coconut palms outdoors to a point of good health, in peninsular Sicily, and Lampedusa.

Lampedusa is a tropical climate OUTSIDE the tropics; that alone is a rarity on Earth, and it occurs at quite far from the equator relative to those few other tropical regions outside the tropics. The Italian South has natural warmth of the highest order, when the Cold Epoch dissipates; even in the middle of winter, even cities like Palermo, Catania, and Messina can have low temps above 60F, tropical-style warmth.

There are loads of Google books on this very real Cold Epoch phenomenon; it is simply a period of colder times on a continent, with the causes for each continent involving a different set of circumstances. For Europe, the behaviors of the North Atlantic Oscillation on the bordering oceans coincide with the Cold Epoch; when it is negative, as it is now, it leads to powerful cold fronts which skew temps over Lampedusa, and the rest of the Italy, thus resulting in a Cold Epoch. 

Edited by rossifer2010

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Sal

@Stelios good job, hard to get it! Finger crossed for its future!

 

Hi @pietropuccio, glad to find you here -obviously-

My Coffea Arabica needs to be covered in order to not be burned by wind, and Lampedusa has much wind problems than me.

Pineapple in my garden is protected by other plants so i never care about it; surely you’re right.

Edited by Sal

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Lampedusa

Thanks everyone for the answers.

A question do you know by chance what are the absolute minimum temperatures below which the plants I mentioned (including the coconut palm) are damaged and in case they die?

Thank

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Lampedusa
1 hour ago, rossifer2010 said:

@Lampedusa – The Coastal Italian South is alot warmer than people in this country believe.

The region is warm enough to sustain commercial production of tropical crops, such as avocado and date palm, even into areas as far inland as Enna, or in areas as far north as Reggio Calabria. Tropical crops like mangoes, papayas, and bananas can be seen growing in many gardens of the region. The Italian South also contains the only areas in Europe outside of the Canaries that can grow coconut palms outdoors to a point of good health, in peninsular Sicily, and Lampedusa.

Lampedusa is a tropical climate OUTSIDE the tropics; that alone is a rarity on Earth, and it occurs at quite far from the equator relative to those few other tropical regions outside the tropics. The Italian South has natural warmth of the highest order, when the Cold Epoch dissipates; even in the middle of winter, even cities like Palermo, Catania, and Messina can have low temps above 60F, tropical-style warmth.

There are loads of Google books on this very real Cold Epoch phenomenon; it is simply a period of colder times on a continent, with the causes for each continent involving a different set of circumstances. For Europe, the behaviors of the North Atlantic Oscillation on the bordering oceans coincide with the Cold Epoch; when it is negative, as it is now, it leads to powerful cold fronts which skew temps over Lampedusa, and the rest of the Italy, thus resulting in a Cold Epoch. 

Maybe you're wrong with some other island, like the Canaries. Lampedusa is far from having a tropical climate.

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Silas_Sancona
1 minute ago, Lampedusa said:

Maybe you're wrong with some other island, like the Canaries. Lampedusa is far from having a tropical climate.

Don't fall for it..  This  ..whatever it is..  likes to re-appear from the depths, usually in the weather section of the Forum ( under some new user name, after getting banned ) to whip a long dead horse.. 

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rossifer2010
7 minutes ago, Lampedusa said:

Maybe you're wrong with some other island, like the Canaries. Lampedusa is far from having a tropical climate.

The Canaries are tropical climates, and Lampedusa is not tropical only because of the effects of the Cold Epoch. I noticed that you didn't address the rest of my post. I guess the ownage of all my opponents is too epic for you to handle.

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pietropuccio
12 hours ago, Lampedusa said:

A question do you know by chance what are the absolute minimum temperatures below which the plants I mentioned (including the coconut palm) are damaged and in case they die?

 

an adult Cocos can bear very short periods of cold with temperatures even close to 0 ° C, if before and after they are constantly high, but it cannot bear long periods with minimum values around 12 ° C or even slightly lower.

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PalmatierMeg

Coconuts also cannot tolerate rain in winter and will die. Do you get most/all of your rain in winter and little/none in summer? They will not photosynthesize or grow at temps below 10-12C and will die. If the ground gets chilly/cold they will die.

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Palazzi

I'm reviving this thread as I've become interested in buying a summer house in the area myself (otherwise living in Sweden, where you can hardly grow anything in the summer). 

I have done quite a lot of research on the subject and have come to the conclusion that the island of Linosa, which is right next to Lampedusa, may have the very best conditions for Cocos Nucifera to survive. The average temperature, in January-February, may be 0.1C lower than on Lampedusa, but the other conditions are all the better. 
On the one hand, the topography possibly allows to find a plot with a favourable microclimate and also the soil seems to be more fertile (lava island). 

For those who compare the conditions between Lampedusa/Linosa and the North African coast, there are few common denominators (other than geographical proximity). The differences between day and night temperatures are MUCH greater on the mainland and minimum temperatures are generally lower in winter. You can see on this graphic, which compares Lampedusa with selected places in North Africa. 

I have also studied the evolution of temperature over time, based on the European Union's climate change studies. 
Over the last 20 years, the average temperature on Lampedusa & Linosa has risen by 1.1C. Between 2000-2020 the average temperature was 19.5C while between 2011-2021 it is 20.1C. By the way, this is the same average temperature as the Canary Islands had in the 1960s (but ofc. warmer in JAN-MAR).  https://climatechange.europeandatajournalism.eu/it/map

I note that Linosa is listed as climate zone 11a (along with 5-10 other places in Europe) but since 2010 there has only been one day that did not qualify as climate zone 11b (one day, in FEB 2013, it was 0.1C too cold). 

I'm pretty sure that in 2022, with the right preparation, you could grow coconuts on Linosa. Perhaps with the help of the so-called "Giardini Panteschi" which protected the crops of the island of Pantelleria from the wind. https://www.italianways.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/giardino-pantesco-9.jpg

 

Skärmavbild 2021-10-14 kl. 11.53.35.png

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Gottagrowemall
On 12/17/2020 at 2:12 PM, Stelios said:

Welcome to Palmtalk! Here in Paphos we can't grow coconuts. You have to protect it at least the first few years and at the best microclimate. I have my coconut since 2009 and I was protecting it, trying to grow it as big as possible to give it better chances to survive. I was protecting it less and less over the years and now is only the 3rd winter that will be unprotected. I also had to plant it in mostly beach sand and south facing so the house created better microclimate. Despite of all these still there is no guarantee it will make it. The first winter unprotected, we had record rainfall and I almost lost it from rot. The next winter (last year) was also very rainy and it took time to recover. But most of our winters are not very rainy so I hope this year will be better. Just in case I will try to protect the crown from any rainfall with some paper and cocos dry leaves. Is the first time I do this, since I noticed that mostly the new frond and spear have serious issues after winter. On the dry days like today I remove them.

20201127_143625.thumb.jpg.7b49e733f273e6507e6fad51e5648205.jpg20201127_143611.thumb.jpg.6f2f276bba94ef1a4c3d4bfb4e56f2dc.jpg20201127_143940.thumb.jpg.320e4a4c52da98b2ea5efe1df58fd09e.jpg

Of course I agree with the others about growing beccariophoenix and other beautiful palms and tropical plants and fruits that I am sure you can grow there. But looking at your winter lows from what I could find about Lampedousa, many nights look better than I have so why not give it a try for a cocos. I am not sure about your winter daily high temps, rainfall or cold winds. For this you know better than us. 

I also don't concentrate only for my cocos and I am happy that I have some more varieties as an option. Keep us posted for any of your future projects.

Thank you for posting this I need to protect my coco the same way. That cold water going down the crown by the spear seems to cause rot. I lost one because of that

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