Would a sabal Louisiana x sabal palmetto look different than a sabal brazoria?

[EastCanadaTropicals]

If they look more similar to sabal palmetto I'd instantly buy them.

Edited December 14, 2020 by EastCanadaTropicals

[PalmatierMeg]

I'm not aware this cross has ever been tried or occurred naturally so who knows? Sabal Louisiana is a variation of Sabal minor that sometimes forms a trunk. Even though Sabal minor territory overlaps that of S. palmetto in some areas I'm not sure they hybridize that easily. Some Sabal spp do hybridize sometimes but my impression is most of them don't go out of their way to do so and that interspecies hybridization is not terribly common, at least in nature. I suppose some palm breeder could tinker with creating Sabal hybrids but seriously, what is the point? How many people will beat a path to the door with wads of cash to buy a hybrid Sabal?

[EastCanadaTropicals]

20 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

I'm not aware this cross has ever been tried or occurred naturally so who knows? Sabal Louisiana is a variation of Sabal minor that sometimes forms a trunk. Even though Sabal minor territory overlaps that of S. palmetto in some areas I'm not sure they hybridize that easily. Some Sabal spp do hybridize sometimes but my impression is most of them don't go out of their way to do so and that interspecies hybridization is not terribly common, at least in nature. I suppose some palm breeder could tinker with creating Sabal hybrids but seriously, what is the point? How many people will beat a path to the door with wads of cash to buy a hybrid Sabal?

It'll be hardier 

[PalmatierMeg]

Perhaps. But not practical. The Sabal spp are the red-headed stepchildren of the palm world, ignored or even actively disliked. Some people who claim to "love palms" bestow their adoration on the pinnate palms because "only feather palms are real palms." Someone who asks PTers to recommend palms for their yard, but "not any of those fan palms - feather palms only." And if anyone suggests differently they go deaf and mute. Chances are there will never be a high enough demand for the Sabals to make them attractive to large numbers of palm growers.

[amh]

17 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Perhaps. But not practical. The Sabal spp are the red-headed stepchildren of the palm world, ignored or even actively disliked. Some people who claim to "love palms" bestow their adoration on the pinnate palms because "only feather palms are real palms." Someone who asks PTers to recommend palms for their yard, but "not any of those fan palms - feather palms only." And if anyone suggests differently they go deaf and mute. Chances are there will never be a high enough demand for the Sabals to make them attractive to large numbers of palm growers.

They would sell very well in the colder gulf states and probably on the east coast as well.

I do agree that feather palms are more commercially preferred, but Sabals can be very impressive when mature.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

18 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Perhaps. But not practical. The Sabal spp are the red-headed stepchildren of the palm world, ignored or even actively disliked. Some people who claim to "love palms" bestow their adoration on the pinnate palms because "only feather palms are real palms." Someone who asks PTers to recommend palms for their yard, but "not any of those fan palms - feather palms only." And if anyone suggests differently they go deaf and mute. Chances are there will never be a high enough demand for the Sabals to make them attractive to large numbers of palm growers.

Why wouldn't they like fan palms?! Feather palms are so lame, dyspis, butia and Jubaea are the only exceptions, maybe coconut palms too they look pretty nice.

[amh]

22 minutes ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Feather palms are so lame

Gonna have to disagree with that statement.

Most people are trying to make their yard into the tropics; this is were the feather palms work best, they can provide a tropical feeling canopy for other tropical plants beneath them. This arrangement looks good, with feather palms. The fan palms really shine when grown in deciduous, coniferous, or mixed forest as an under story plant or small tree, in riparian zones, and in subtropic or warm temperate savanna.

Just my opinion.

[Brad Mondel]

Sabals are taken for granted because they're so common in the south. People in SC take great pride in the Sabal palmetto though.

 

I suppose such a hybrid would be like a brazoriensis.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

2 hours ago, amh said:

Gonna have to disagree with that statement.

Most people are trying to make their yard into the tropics; this is were the feather palms work best, they can provide a tropical feeling canopy for other tropical plants beneath them. This arrangement looks good, with feather palms. The fan palms really shine when grown in deciduous, coniferous, or mixed forest as an under story plant or small tree, in riparian zones, and in subtropic or warm temperate savanna.

Just my opinion.

I remember saying they were exceptions

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Sabal Causiarum should be marketed as the hardier version of the Bismarkia , my goal is to one day populate as much of south east Texas with this palm. I love my Bizzies and there usually the exception to most palm snobs when it comes to fan palms =)

[amh]

19 hours ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

I remember saying they were exceptions

Duly noted.

[Fallen Munk]

I like palms.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

1 hour ago, Fallen Munk said:

I like palms.

Nice.

[climate change virginia]

On 12/14/2020 at 7:34 PM, amh said:

Gonna have to disagree with that statement.

Most people are trying to make their yard into the tropics; this is were the feather palms work best, they can provide a tropical feeling canopy for other tropical plants beneath them. This arrangement looks good, with feather palms. The fan palms really shine when grown in deciduous, coniferous, or mixed forest as an under story plant or small tree, in riparian zones, and in subtropic or warm temperate savanna.

Just my opinion.

I agree it depends what biome the palm is in

[amh]

5 hours ago, climate change virginia said:

I agree it depends what biome the palm is in

Everything has a place.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

On 12/14/2020 at 7:01 PM, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Why wouldn't they like fan palms?! Feather palms are so lame, dyspis, butia and Jubaea are the only exceptions, maybe coconut palms too they look pretty nice.

I was just really angry at people that say, "only feather palms are real palms" back then. Would be a joke to call those people, "palmlovers."

[Advective]

If you're wanting a hardier, closely-resembling version of Palmetto, it's Sabal Birmingham

[Xerarch]

As for the original question, my understanding of the Brazoria palm is that it is a very old natural hybrid, so it’s genes are far more complex than just being like an F1 or F2 hybrid or saying that it’s X percent S palmetto and X percent S minor. It’s more complicated than that. 

Having said that, any hybrid between two Sabal species could only look somewhere intermediate between the two parents right? So it couldn’t possibly be THAT much different to the Brazoria, I mean enough people have a hard time differentiating S palmetto and S Mexicana without looking at the seeds.  So we have Brazoria, we have Birmingham, do we have something new to be gained by crossing the Louisiana version of S minor with S palmetto? Maybe, the market can decide. Keep in mind that a hybrid would likely be a painfully slow grower. 

[NCFM]

On the topic of s. palmetto hybrids, this "DeFuniak Palm" is certainly interesting. Haven't been able to find much information on it aside from its listing on the Plant Delights Nursery wesbite:

Learn about Sabal DeFuniak | DeFuniak Sabal Palm | Perennial Encyclopedia by Plant Delights Nursery

[EastCanadaTropicals]

12 hours ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

On the topic of s. palmetto hybrids, this "DeFuniak Palm" is certainly interesting. Haven't been able to find much information on it aside from its listing on the Plant Delights Nursery wesbite:

Learn about Sabal DeFuniak | DeFuniak Sabal Palm | Perennial Encyclopedia by Plant Delights Nursery

Is it hardier than regular sabal palmetto? Did it survive their record freezes?

[EastCanadaTropicals]

12 hours ago, NC_Palm_Enthusiast said:

On the topic of s. palmetto hybrids, this "DeFuniak Palm" is certainly interesting. Haven't been able to find much information on it aside from its listing on the Plant Delights Nursery wesbite:

Learn about Sabal DeFuniak | DeFuniak Sabal Palm | Perennial Encyclopedia by Plant Delights Nursery

Kinda like an oversized Birmingham.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

12 hours ago, Xerarch said:

As for the original question, my understanding of the Brazoria palm is that it is a very old natural hybrid, so it’s genes are far more complex than just being like an F1 or F2 hybrid or saying that it’s X percent S palmetto and X percent S minor. It’s more complicated than that. 

Having said that, any hybrid between two Sabal species could only look somewhere intermediate between the two parents right? So it couldn’t possibly be THAT much different to the Brazoria, I mean enough people have a hard time differentiating S palmetto and S Mexicana without looking at the seeds.  So we have Brazoria, we have Birmingham, do we have something new to be gained by crossing the Louisiana version of S minor with S palmetto? Maybe, the market can decide. Keep in mind that a hybrid would likely be a painfully slow grower. 

Mexicana and Palmetto is easy to differentiate to me, from the trunk.

[EastCanadaTropicals]

13 hours ago, Advective said:

If you're wanting a hardier, closely-resembling version of Palmetto, it's Sabal Birmingham

Yep, definitely will try to get it.

[NCFM]

3 minutes ago, EastCanadaTropicals said:

Is it hardier than regular sabal palmetto? Did it survive their record freezes?

I’m not entirely sure what temps it has survived. That’s something I’d also like to know. Plant Delights lists it as 7b Hardy, so there must be something that has lead them to believe it would be hardier than an average palmetto

[RJ]

On 12/15/2020 at 3:47 PM, OC2Texaspalmlvr said:

Sabal Causiarum should be marketed as the hardier version of the Bismarkia , my goal is to one day populate as much of south east Texas with this palm. I love my Bizzies and there usually the exception to most palm snobs when it comes to fan palms =)

I'd like a S. Causuarum x S. P or S.M . The ONLY thing I wish Causiarum had more of is for it to hold more fronds. Sometimes they look a little sparse in the head when they get large(er) 

[TexasColdHardyPalms]

Why dont you just buy sabal Brazoria and skip the drama?

[EastCanadaTropicals]

6 hours ago, TexasColdHardyPalms said:

Why dont you just buy sabal Brazoria and skip the drama?

I'll stick with Birmingham.

[cm05]

I’d imagine the Sabal Louisiana genes would make it grow faster and maybe slightly larger than Brazoria or Birmingham, but who knows.

I’d be interested in such a hybrid.