New Bismarckia Nobilis - Age Guess?

[Teegurr]

Just recieved this Bismarckia in the mail. It was 62 dollars. I think that's a pretty good deal? I live in a very warm 8b, or even a 9a, so it might have a shot here, obviously needing some protection. Right now, of course, it's in a pot. I'll probably plant it in late March. Can anyone figure the age? Thanks.

[Palmfarmer]

2-3 years is my guess

[PlantDad]

Really nice looking palm! I would agree probably 2-3 years

[Teegurr]

15 hours ago, PlantDad said:

Really nice looking palm! I would agree probably 2-3 years

Thank you! I will cherish it and really try to keep it healthy here. 2-3, thanks for letting me know. 

[Fusca]

3 hours ago, Teegurr said:

Thank you! I will cherish it and really try to keep it healthy here. 2-3, thanks for letting me know. 

Maybe 2-3 years from a strap-leaf seedling.  I have some I grew from seeds 2½ years ago that are just going palmate.  Also purchased a 5-gal plant in 2018 that is not yet as large as yours.  Did it come from Florida?  Hopefully not because it may not be as cold hardy.  Looks nice!

[Teegurr]

5 minutes ago, Fusca said:

Maybe 2-3 years from a strap-leaf seedling.  I have some I grew from seeds 2½ years ago that are just going palmate.  Also purchased a 5-gal plant in 2018 that is not yet as large as yours.  Did it come from Florida?  Hopefully not because it may not be as cold hardy.  Looks nice!

Unfortunately, it came from Miami... Plantvine was the site I used. However, I'm hoping that it will be pretty silver and therefore more hardy. It is of course the silver form, and I think it can be adapted to colder temperatures. 

[Fusca]

Here is the one I bought 2 years ago (from California).  Note the purple color on the petioles which I've read is a good indicator of cold hardiness in young palms.  It's been in the ground for one full winter and suffered no leaf damage but we only dipped down to 26°.  It's in full sun but hasn't put on much growth in 2 years and the petioles are very short compared with yours.

[Jubaea_James760]

@Fusca, 3rd year is the leap year! I bet its going to explode with growth next year 

That purple color on the petioles is unreal! 

[PlantDad]

8 hours ago, Teegurr said:

Thank you! I will cherish it and really try to keep it healthy here. 2-3, thanks for letting me know. 

You're welcome! Keep me posted on how it does 

[Palmfarmer]

12 hours ago, Fusca said:

Here is the one I bought 2 years ago (from California).  Note the purple color on the petioles which I've read is a good indicator of cold hardiness in young palms.  It's been in the ground for one full winter and suffered no leaf damage but we only dipped down to 26°.  It's in full sun but hasn't put on much growth in 2 years and the petioles are very short compared with yours.

The reason is probably that his was grown in more shade. When i bought my bismarck it was a lot taller and as it changed fronds the new ones got a lot shorter and fatter. This has been the case with more or less all the palms I have planted. 

[Teegurr]

12 hours ago, Fusca said:

Here is the one I bought 2 years ago (from California).  Note the purple color on the petioles which I've read is a good indicator of cold hardiness in young palms.  It's been in the ground for one full winter and suffered no leaf damage but we only dipped down to 26°.  It's in full sun but hasn't put on much growth in 2 years and the petioles are very short compared with yours.

Very purple and nice Bismarck! I am a little worried that since mine is not very purple, it won't be that cold hardy.  Maybe it's because it's bigger, but I'm not sure. It's about 2-2.5 feet tall right now. I wonder if I should keep it outside for an upcoming frost, because it's looking like it's going to get down to 29 degrees (to acclimate it). I have it on a south-facing wall. There aren't very many places I could put it in the ground where it would be on a south-facing wall, so that might be tough. I guess canopy is the real make or break for this palm anyway. I'm excited, and I know it has at least a shot because another forum member has one in my city. It's pretty similar in San Antonio to College Station, no? You guys do have the advantage of drier winters, though. 

[Xenon]

Not trying to spook you and hope it's not the case but there are "very cold tender" forms of silver/blue Bismarckia that burn around freezing. Probably a more lowland form. Many of the early Bismarckia introductions in Florida were of that provenance. 

 

[Fusca]

6 hours ago, Xenon said:

Not trying to spook you and hope it's not the case but there are "very cold tender" forms of silver/blue Bismarckia that burn around freezing. Probably a more lowland form. Many of the early Bismarckia introductions in Florida were of that provenance.

Exactly.  This is why I asked him if it came from Florida.    Hopefully it's not one of these forms.

@James760 and @TeegurrThanks!  I really love the colors on mine.  Hoping for the best this coming year!  If it doesn't start growing good soon it will be shaded out some by a Texas olive that has tripled in height since I purchased it (just one year before the Bizzy) so I might have to start trimming the olive.  We do have similar growing zones as College Station except for a difference in humidity.  As far as cold hardiness for palms the drier cold temps in winter are an advantage.  @Palmfarmer you make a good point about his being more shade grown than mine because I know mine was grown in full sun.  My main point as far as age were with my seedlings.

[Teegurr]

We're getting down to 31 tomorrow morning and I want to leave it outside to see how cold hardy it is. Is that a dumb idea?

[Collectorpalms]

11 hours ago, Teegurr said:

We're getting down to 31 tomorrow morning and I want to leave it outside to see how cold hardy it is. Is that a dumb idea?

Might as well. It’s not that cold. If it can’t handle 31 and possible frost tonight then you might not plant it. 

[Teegurr]

2 minutes ago, Collectorpalms said:

Might as well. It’s not that cold. If it can’t handle 31 and possible frost tonight then you might not plant it. 

It might get down to 30 or 29, but that doesn't matter. It's just to rule out the possibility that it's a lowland form of the silver variety, which would be catastrophic in this climate.

[Fusca]

31 minutes ago, Teegurr said:

It might get down to 30 or 29, but that doesn't matter. It's just to rule out the possibility that it's a lowland form of the silver variety, which would be catastrophic in this climate.

I agree with Ryan.  29 or 30F won't kill it even if it is the tender form - unless it's a 12+ hour duration event which it won't be.  Will be a good test but you might see some foliage damage and it should grow out of that.

[Teegurr]

4 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I agree with Ryan.  29 or 30F won't kill it even if it is the tender form - unless it's a 12+ hour duration event which it won't be.  Will be a good test but you might see some foliage damage and it should grow out of that.

Yeah, I know it wouldn't kill it. I'm just checking for damage, which is good to know later on for planting (might not plant if it gets damaged).

I'll keep you posted.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Teegurr

[Fusca]

Another thing to consider if you end up planting it is clay soil.  I bought one at HGC several years ago when I lived in Houston and it died after a light freeze.  It might have been one of the more hardy varieties, but I didn't realize at the time I planted it that it was in a low spot in the yard.  It sat in frigid water at the bottom of the hole I planted it in for an extended period due to heavy rains just prior to the freeze so that was the issue rather than low temps.

[Teegurr]

So, I don't see any damage yet. Maybe I have to wait longer, I really don't know. There's some yellowing on one of the older leaves, not sure if that was because of the frost or not, might have already been there. Hoping this is not celebrating too early, as I know sometimes damage can come weeks or even months later.

[Merlyn]

I haven't tried buying anything off of PlantVine, but I did consider it because their prices and shipping are generally reasonable.  A Bismarck like yours would be $50-55 at a local big box store here in Central Floriduh.  I planted a slightly smaller one around the beginning of October 2019, with two Arenga Engleri flanking it.  The Engleri had been in pots for a bit too long and one burned in the sun initially:

Here it is today from about the same angle.  It's about 3 feet tall now, the Engleri finally have a full set of leaves, and yes...there's another 10 yard pile of mulch to the bottom right, covering the end of the driveway. 

And this is my biggest Bismarck, planted in August 2018 from one of the $55 big box store pots.  2.5 years of growth and it's about 12 feet tall overall.  The new leaf opened up shorter due to the cold fronts.  I noted this last year with this Bismarck and the one in the front yard.  It didn't stop growing when temps went to 60s as a high, the fronds just grew shorter until March when temps went back reliably into the low 80s.

[Teegurr]

11 hours ago, Merlyn said:

I haven't tried buying anything off of PlantVine, but I did consider it because their prices and shipping are generally reasonable.  A Bismarck like yours would be $50-55 at a local big box store here in Central Floriduh.  I planted a slightly smaller one around the beginning of October 2019, with two Arenga Engleri flanking it.  The Engleri had been in pots for a bit too long and one burned in the sun initially:

Here it is today from about the same angle.  It's about 3 feet tall now, the Engleri finally have a full set of leaves, and yes...there's another 10 yard pile of mulch to the bottom right, covering the end of the driveway. 

And this is my biggest Bismarck, planted in August 2018 from one of the $55 big box store pots.  2.5 years of growth and it's about 12 feet tall overall.  The new leaf opened up shorter due to the cold fronts.  I noted this last year with this Bismarck and the one in the front yard.  It didn't stop growing when temps went to 60s as a high, the fronds just grew shorter until March when temps went back reliably into the low 80s.

This is really cool! Love your garden set up, and your pictures give me an idea what my Bismarck will look like when I move out in 2.5 years (if it doesn't perish).

EDIT: That's some really impressive growth! My Bizzie is 2.25 ish feet tall, and assuming yours is the same, that would be a growth rate of about 4 feet a year!

Edited December 20, 2020 by Teegurr

[Merlyn]

They were about 3 feet tall when I planted them, the one in the front yard is only about 8 feet tall.  It is partially shaded by the house, Nov to Feb.  I understand that they grow pretty quick up to mature frond size and length.  Then they slow somewhat as the trunk gains diameter before growing upwards.  In a pot they will be much slower, so don't expect several feet per year.

[Teegurr]

5 hours ago, Merlyn said:

They were about 3 feet tall when I planted them, the one in the front yard is only about 8 feet tall.  It is partially shaded by the house, Nov to Feb.  I understand that they grow pretty quick up to mature frond size and length.  Then they slow somewhat as the trunk gains diameter before growing upwards.  In a pot they will be much slower, so don't expect several feet per year.

I'm gonna try to plant it in March. It may be suicide, but whatever. I'll try to protect it.

[Teegurr]

As we're seeing hints of spring here, the Bismarckia's petioles have gotten much redder. There are some burned frond tips, but nothing too bad at all (might just be fronds getting older) It's been quite a mild winter here, a warm 9b, with the lowest temp recorded being 29 degrees. No visible growth. Is that normal?

[GoatLockerGuns]

7 hours ago, Teegurr said:

No visible growth. Is that normal?

My Bismarckia nobilis typically do not grow much during the winter months, then start growing/pushing out new spears in late spring.  I hear that is par for the course with Bismarckia nobilis in colder/marginal climates, but I am no expert.  I have given my dad in Cape Coral, Florida some of the ones that I started from seed here in San Antonio, Texas.  The growth rate difference is real.  His grow much quicker than mine do.  Like @Fuscaalluded to, that Bismarckia nobilis you bought online would probably not be a 2 1/2 year old palm if it was grown from seed around here, and exposed to this climate most of the year.  It could easily be a 2 1/2 year old Bismarckia nobilis though, at least in my humble opinion, if it was grown in South Florida.

[Teegurr]

Palm is planted! Hope it's not too close, even though it is! We'll see what happens. The bush on the left along the house next to ours protects it from the north wind, and of course there's the other wall. Palm is 6.5 ft from the house and 4ft from the Arborvitae. There is canopy as well. Hopefully it's not too shady.

Edited March 3, 2021 by Teegurr

[Xenon]

Nooooo whyyyyyy. Let it have sun! Full blazing blasting baking sun. (The house is blocking the south sun? Noooooo the tragedy) 

(Just my $0.02) 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Xenon

[Teegurr]

1 minute ago, Xenon said:

Nooooo whyyyyyy. Let it have sun! Full blazing blasting baking sun 

(Just my $0.02) 

Oh, god! I don't know, there's not much protection if I put it in full sun. Still, I feel bad. It will grow slower. I don't think it's full shade, though.

[Teegurr]

16 minutes ago, Xenon said:

Nooooo whyyyyyy. Let it have sun! Full blazing blasting baking sun. (The house is blocking the south sun? Noooooo the tragedy) 

(Just my $0.02) 

No the house isn't blocking it. My reasoning was put it under canopy, and if you think about it, it is next to a Southeastern facing "wall" (the bush). I can plant another Bismarckia somewhere else (there is a Southwestern facing wall in the backyard). Ack! Anyway, I'm not staying here forever.