Big slow fan palm?

[Manalto]

Outside of my kitchen, I would like to plant a large palm that fills the window with foliage and blocks the view of my neighbor's A/C unit.  I have about 15' between the house and the driveway, so there is space for a large palm.  The location is south-facing, with bright shade and dappled sunlight from the high branches of a giant old live oak.  It's a protected spot, but I don't want to get too risky and lose my eyesore-blocker a few years down the road.

A slow palm would fill the window with foliage for a long time; a fast palm would eventually outgrow its role and get tall enough fill the windows of the room above. Either is desirable.

I have asked this question before but now have refined it to include the possibility of the palm out-growing its first-floor purpose. I would then find an understory plant to do the job.

The only options I can think of are a young Sabal palmetto just developing a trunk (slow) or a Trachycarpus fortunei (fast?). The search for such a Sabal has been an exercise in futility. I'm also open to a pinnate palm if the foliage is dense enough to provide some screening, so Butia is probably not an option. Will Chamaedorea radicalis grow 10' tall?

A mail-order seedling would probably not do the job during my lifetime. I can be patient for a palm to achieve some size, but not 10-years patient. Climate is humid Gulf Coast 8B. Suggestions, please!

Edited December 11, 2020 by Manalto

[Kailua_Krish]

Sabal causiarum or domingensis (since under shade so frost protected)?

[climate change virginia]

Trithrinax campestris should work its 20 feet and a fan very slow growing to.

[ahosey01]

4 hours ago, Manalto said:

Outside of my kitchen, I would like to plant a large palm that fills the window with foliage and blocks the view of my neighbor's A/C unit.  I have about 15' between the house and the driveway, so there is space for a large palm.  The location is south-facing, with bright shade and dappled sunlight from the high branches of a giant old live oak.  It's a protected spot, but I don't want to get too risky and lose my eyesore-blocker a few years down the road.

A slow palm would fill the window with foliage for a long time; a fast palm would eventually outgrow its role and get tall enough fill the windows of the room above. Either is desirable.

I have asked this question before but now have refined it to include the possibility of the palm out-growing its first-floor purpose. I would then find an understory plant to do the job.

The only options I can think of are a young Sabal palmetto just developing a trunk (slow) or a Trachycarpus fortunei (fast?). The search for such a Sabal has been an exercise in futility. I'm also open to a pinnate palm if the foliage is dense enough to provide some screening, so Butia is probably not an option. Will Chamaedorea radicalis grow 10' tall?

A mail-order seedling would probably not do the job during my lifetime. I can be patient for a palm to achieve some size, but not 10-years patient. Climate is humid Gulf Coast 8B. Suggestions, please!

How about Rhapis multifada?

I could be wrong but I was thinking that was an 8B palm.

[Manalto]

31 minutes ago, ahosey01 said:

How about Rhapis multifada?

I could be wrong but I was thinking that was an 8B palm.

 Beautiful, but looks like a 9B palm.

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Sabal Birmingham for sure , slowest trunking sabal out there. Also the most cold hardy trunking sabal. In a couple decades you can plant some understood palms like Cham Radicalis 

[ahosey01]

4 minutes ago, Manalto said:

 Beautiful, but looks like a 9B palm.

Idk man... check out this thread:

I have found a couple sources saying mid-teens, no damage.

Would sure fit your purposes well I’d think.

[Allen]

A needle palm is your short slow growing eyesore blocker of 6-8' tall.  

[Matt N- Dallas]

Sabal Birmingham is the slowest Sabal I’ve grown in z8b TX.  I have a 20 year old one that began as a quart sized plant- only has 1’ of trunk now.  It’s about 9.5’ to the top of the leaves.  

[OC2Texaspalmlvr]

Just now, Matt N- Dallas said:

Sabal Birmingham is the slowest Sabal I’ve grown in z8b TX.  I have a 20 year old one that began as a quart sized plant- only has 1’ of trunk now.  It’s about 9.5’ to the top of the leaves.  

Thats exactly what I have heard 

[Swolte]

Okay, so this is the guy who isn't bothered looking at drying socks and underwear hanging from a clothesline but calls looking at AC units at the neighbors an eyesore!

Good suggestions thus far! 

Some alternative ideas to consider:
A] To remove the impediment of time, you could probably plant a nice looking clumping bamboo and then a palm in front of it. Bamboo is more readily replaceable once the palm gets larger and will fill in to that height within a year (e.g., textilis, if you have vertical room). This way, the Birmingham, or anything else, may even be an option! 

B] Or, you could go with a faster-growing palm, like Trachycarpus, but instead of one, plant three! One 15G or larger (at the back), a 1G, and a seedling at the front. This way, you will have full coverage for the next decade. Even after years and they've all grown trunks, you'll have some fat hairy trunks to look at (put some vines on 'm). Actually, I bet if you plant them only a few feet apart, the competition for light and nutrients may slow growth even more (esp. for the smaller ones).  

~ S
 

Edited December 11, 2020 by Swolte

[Xenon]

Nannorrhops ritchiana. Plenty cold hardy and there is a nice one in Houston so it should handle your rainfall too. 

[The7thLegend]

Since the area is partially shaded.....  Livistona chinensis.

[Palmfarmer]

Second that get a Livestona

[Manalto]

9 hours ago, Swolte said:

Okay, so this is the guy who isn't bothered looking at drying socks and underwear hanging from a clothesline but calls looking at AC units at the neighbors an eyesore!

Good suggestions thus far! 

Some alternative ideas to consider:
A] To remove the impediment of time, you could probably plant a nice looking clumping bamboo and then a palm in front of it. Bamboo is more readily replaceable once the palm gets larger and will fill in to that height within a year (e.g., textilis, if you have vertical room). This way, the Birmingham, or anything else, may even be an option! 

B] Or, you could go with a faster-growing palm, like Trachycarpus, but instead of one, plant three! One 15G or larger (at the back), a 1G, and a seedling at the front. This way, you will have full coverage for the next decade. Even after years and they've all grown trunks, you'll have some fat hairy trunks to look at (put some vines on 'm). Actually, I bet if you plant them only a few feet apart, the competition for light and nutrients may slow growth even more (esp. for the smaller ones).  

~ S
 

Your fixation on the suburban aesthetic is noted.

Good suggestions, thanks.

[Manalto]

47 minutes ago, The7thLegend said:

Since the area is partially shaded.....  Livistona chinensis.

And I'll be able to find a decent-sized one locally. Gracias!

(Thanks also, Meg.)

ETA: My local palm supplier (not big-box, but independent) has Chinese Fans in 7 gal. for $45. I like the pendulous leaf tips so I'm going to go for it.

Thanks to all who made suggestions; it was interesting to investigate the options!

Edited December 12, 2020 by Manalto

[Manalto]

11 hours ago, ahosey01 said:

Idk man... check out this thread:

I have found a couple sources saying mid-teens, no damage.

Would sure fit your purposes well I’d think.

I like this one a lot. I've got a spot for it. I'm off on a search. Thanks a lot for the suggestion!

[DCA_Palm_Fan]

5 hours ago, Manalto said:

And I'll be able to find a decent-sized one locally. Gracias!

(Thanks also, Meg.)

ETA: My local palm supplier (not big-box, but independent) has Chinese Fans in 7 gal. for $45. I like the pendulous leaf tips so I'm going to go for it.

Thanks to all who made suggestions; it was interesting to investigate the options!

That was going to be my suggestion as well.   Post some pics when you get it / get it planted!

[Manalto]

1 hour ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

That was going to be my suggestion as well.   Post some pics when you get it / get it planted!

Will do, today!

[Allen]

On 12/11/2020 at 3:01 AM, Manalto said:

 It's a protected spot, but I don't want to get too risky and lose my eyesore-blocker a few years down the road.

 

Isn't the Chinese fan a little bit of risk for your zone?  Small ones can get damaged in low 20's and die 15-20?  Or are you protecting it if need be?  I don't think this palm is fully 8b hardy.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Allen

[Manalto]

 Here's the Livistona.  It was incredibly root bound in its 7 gallon pot.

 Please, no snide remarks about the condition of the house. It's 100 years old (1919) and I'm working on it.  I'm trying to get the "bones" of the landscape in place and growing so everything new doesn't look brand new.  Juggling both outdoor and indoor projects means both move a little more slowly.

 Another question:  There are 3 growing points (3 plants) all together and they are too intertwined to tease apart,so I left them as-is. Is this OK? Will they all thrive? Or will they compete with each other?  I wouldn't mind a triple palm but if I have to euthanize two of them, I will.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Manalto

[Swolte]

Great specimen! That's interesting, I just got one last week. I had it in my head that they'd resemble Washingtonia's, especially when young, but they are quite distinct. The leaves seem to have a more fresher green (I see that with yours too) and the pendulous leaf tips seem to show quite early (though mine is probably a year younger than yours and not as strong in that regard). 

I also have the exact same multi-trunk situation.  I figure they'd trunk a bit slower but I don't mind that at all in the spot where I have them. They should do OK as I have seen some nice pics of this palm in multi-trunked form. Also, I hope that it provides some extra cold-insurance (they are closer together and if one dies, I may still have another left). First time growing these so I'll be following answers to this question!

[PalmatierMeg]

On 12/11/2020 at 4:44 AM, krishnaraoji88 said:

Sabal causiarum or domingensis (since under shade so frost protected)?

Sabal causiarum will block view with foliage when young, then with its massive trunk after it grows up. It is faster growing and gets larger than palmetto.

[Palmfarmer]

Looked reallly good in front of the house 

[Manalto]

2 hours ago, Swolte said:

Great specimen! That's interesting, I just got one last week. I had it in my head that they'd resemble Washingtonia's, especially when young, but they are quite distinct. The leaves seem to have a more fresher green (I see that with yours too) and the pendulous leaf tips seem to show quite early (though mine is probably a year younger than yours and not as strong in that regard). 

I also have the exact same multi-trunk situation.  I figure they'd trunk a bit slower but I don't mind that at all in the spot where I have them. They should do OK as I have seen some nice pics of this palm in multi-trunked form. Also, I hope that it provides some extra cold-insurance (they are closer together and if one dies, I may still have another left). First time growing these so I'll be following answers to this question!

Thanks.  I was pleasantly surprised when I got to the nursery; a 7 gallon can be pretty puny but these were bursting out of their pots. I chose the one that was starting to show the leaf-tip droop and didn't notice the multiple trunks until I got it home, sloppy shopper that I am. While I was at the nursery, I asked the guy who helped me load the plant how Chinese fans do in the Mobile area, fast or slow. He said they were pretty fast, which contradicts some other reports. I assume it is responding to the heat, humidity and high rainfall of this region. 

When I got home I called the grower to ask about the triple trunks and this was the answer I got: "They do that, just like the Mediterranean fans; let them be." Nowhere had I seen that Livistona chinensis forms multi-trunks but, admittedly, my "research" (Googling) was not exhaustive. So, I guess we're OK. Good point about increasing its chance of survival.

In response to Allen: I guess it is a bit of a risk, which contradicts my original stipulation that it be fully hardy. 'Fools rush in' I guess; I like the pendulous leaf-tips and fresh green color too much to pass it up. I'm hoping that we have a mild winter for the first year and that its protected spot improves my chances. This grower has warned me in the past if I'm taking too much of a risk and didn't this time, so that gives me a little confidence.

About an hour after I planted this palm, we got a soft, drenching rain. I consider this a good omen, not in the superstitous sense, but a kind of "christening" in its new spot - out of the pot and into the earth.

Question: Will this palm produce viable seed? I've found conflicting reports on moneocious vs. dioecious.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Manalto

[Fusca]

4 hours ago, Manalto said:

I left them as-is. Is this OK? Will they all thrive? Or will they compete with each other? 

I think it is fine - probably will have some competition but I'd think that they would all do fine.  I have seen trunking palms in 8b Austin.  They are not terribly leaf hardy but quite bud hardy.  You might want to provide some frost cloth protection on coldest nights to keep the fronds looking good.  They don't mind some shade either.  I have one planted on the east side of my house that is doing great without exposure to late afternoon sun which killed a larger one I had on the north side of my house.  I think leaf damage occurs somewhere in the low 20's - mine has not had any damage down to 26°F the past 2 winters.  They are solitary palms so your 3 plants came from planting 3 seeds.  I believe this one, like many Livistonas, are "functionally dioecious" so you should get viable seed from it but perhaps not every year.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Fusca

[Manalto]

16 minutes ago, PalmatierMeg said:

Sabal causiarum will block view with foliage when young, then with its massive trunk after it grows up. It is faster growing and gets larger than palmetto.

I have a wee S. causiarum that I got from Texas Cold-Hardy and planted on the outer edge of my property to block another view, this time for privacy. (I like to screen off my back yard with perimeter plantings; it feels weird to be on full view to passers-by.) I didn't consider it for the kitchen-window site because a decent-sized specimen isn't available locally and the massive trunk (which probably isn't going to happen in my lifetime) seems out of scale in that location.

[Manalto]

7 hours ago, Fusca said:

They are solitary palms so your 3 plants came from planting 3 seeds.  I believe this one, like many Livistonas, are "functionally dioecious" so you should get viable seed from it but perhaps not every year.

 I suspected my supplier was wrong about the multi-trunking habit.  By the grower routinely putting multiple seeds in each pot, the misconception is perpetuated.  Wouldn't three plants mean a high probability of both sexes being represented and, therefore, of cross pollination?

Will it be more healthy if it is grown as a solitary palm?

[Kailua_Krish]

They grow well as multiples and are often planted that way in Central Florida for screening purposes (mine are planted like this). It does slow the trunking down so they remain more of a large bush for a while. If under canopy they will probably be fine most winters in 8b as the frost is what they really don't like. As mentioned Ive heard reports on them being very bud hardy. The multiples usually do set viable seed due to several plants being near each other for fertilizing

[Manalto]

Thanks, Krishna. They definitely look more lush this way - plus, I get the slow palm I origninally sought.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Manalto

[DAVEinMB]

On 12/12/2020 at 9:30 AM, Allen said:

Isn't the Chinese fan a little bit of risk for your zone?  Small ones can get damaged in low 20's and die 15-20?  Or are you protecting it if need be?  I don't think this palm is fully 8b hardy.

There are a row of 6 here with a good bit of trunk (7ish feet) that have been in the ground 10 years or so. Fully exposed location. They made it through the brutal 2018 winter and a week long ice event we had a few years before that winter. They are part of some landscaping at a condo complex so I doubt they get protected. 

[DAVEinMB]

@Manalto I'm a little late to the party and I like your Chinensis choice over this suggestion but if the same situation arises in the future serenoa repens may fit the bill. 

[Manalto]

Wi

35 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

@Manalto I'm a little late to the party and I like your Chinensis choice over this suggestion but if the same situation arises in the future serenoa repens may fit the bill. 

It would be nice to use a native, but will Serenoa repens get 10' tall in a reasonable amount of time? Where would I find one?

Edited December 13, 2020 by Manalto

[DAVEinMB]

Would take awhile but eventually you'd be in the ballpark. Tallest I've seen around here were around 8' maybe a tad taller. 

Page 3 shows some pics of the clump I'm referring to

[DAVEinMB]

@Manalto they're readily available here in most nurseries, haven't tried to source any online etc

[Manalto]

7 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

@Manalto they're readily available here in most nurseries, haven't tried to source any online etc

I admit they weren't under my radar, so they may be available here too.  Thank you. You gave me an idea for using them in another spot.

[DAVEinMB]

1 minute ago, Manalto said:

I admit they weren't under my radar, so they may be available here too.  Thank you. You gave me an idea for using them in another spot.

Just trying to contribute to the support group brotha 

[Manalto]

3 minutes ago, DAVEinMB said:

Just trying to contribute to the support group brotha 

You de best!

[The7thLegend]

Beautiful specimen choice Manalto.   

[Chester B]

I personally love your choice. I hope they do well for you. Don’t separate them they’ll look better as a clump and when I separated a clump of 7 or 8 I lost half of them.