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Keys6505

"Baggie" seeds re-molding 1 day after bleach bath

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Keys6505

I couldn't find this specific answer in any of the baggie mold threads.  I had some mold growth on the seeds in a bunch of the baggies I have going.  They're all hand wrung sphag on a heat mat.  I emptied all of the bags, separated the seeds and dipped in a 1/10 bleach solution.  I made sure any inadvertant remnants of fruit were completely gone and I soaked for a few minutes although some people say to only do it for a few seconds.  Afterwards I rinsed the seeds in tap water and boiled an cooled the sphag.  I really don't know why I didn't use fresh medium but I figured after boiling it shouldn't matter.  After cooling I wrung out the sphag and placed back with seeds in new baggies.  In less than 24 hours I had mold growth again.  Not sure how this is possible as I thought I kept everything clean.  I successfully germinated Butia seeds once before and the only difference I remember is not rinsing the seeds after the bleach bath, but since everything I read said to rinse that's what I did on this batch.  Any advice?

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palmad Merc

Sprinkle some cinnamon into the baggie, shake it around, and use hydrogen peroxide as a way of moisture 

Edited by palmad Merc
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Tracy
On 11/26/2020 at 4:57 PM, palmad Merc said:

Sprinkle some cinnamon into the baggie, shake it around, and use hydrogen peroxide as a way of moisture 

I get the hydrogen peroxide to try to kill any mold, but I'm a bit perplexed as to the roll of the cinnamon unless one plans to eat the seeds if they don't sprout.  Sorry for the bad humor but please do explain what the cinnamon is intended to do.

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palmad Merc
57 minutes ago, Tracy said:

I get the hydrogen peroxide to try to kill any mold, but I'm a bit perplexed as to the roll of the cinnamon unless one plans to eat the seeds if they don't sprout.  Sorry for the bad humor but please do explain what the cinnamon is intended to do.

It is a natural mold inhibitor, I also sprinkle its around any of my seedlings that are prone to dampening off. 

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Tracy
20 minutes ago, palmad Merc said:

It is a natural mold inhibitor, I also sprinkle its around any of my seedlings that are prone to dampening off. 

Your post prompted me to do a search and I found some interesting articles on cinnamon in the US NIH(US National Institute of Health) Library of Medicine.  Most deal with the essential oils from cinnamon such as this article and abstract:

Arch Microbiol

. 2020 Aug;202(6):1439-1448.doi: 10.1007/s00203-020-01858-3. Epub 2020 Mar 17.

Synergistic antibacterial, antifungal and antioxidant efficacy of cinnamon and clove essential oils in combination

S Purkait  1 , A Bhattacharya  2 , A Bag  2 , R R Chattopadhyay  2

Abstract

The present investigation aimed to evaluate antibacterial, antifungal and antioxidant efficacy of essential oils of three commonly used spices (black pepper, cinnamon and clove) in combination along with chemical characterization and toxicity evaluation. Among the possible combinations tested, cinnamon/clove oil combination showed synergistic antibacterial activity against foodborne bacteria Staphylococcus aureus, Listeria monocytogenes, Salmonella typhimurium and Pseudomonas aeruginosa and synergistic antifungal activity against Aspergillus niger as well as synergistic antioxidant potential in DPPH radical scavenging model system. GC-HRMS analysis revealed that out of thirteen identified components from clove oil, eugenol was found to be the main constituent of the oil; whereas out of twenty one identified constituents from cinnamon oil, the main component was cinnamaldehyde. Cinnamon/clove oil combination did not show any cytotoxic potential at recommended dosage level (IC50 > 2000 µg/ml). The results provide evidence that cinnamon/clove oil combination might indeed be used as a potential source of safe and effective novel natural antibacterial, antifungal and antioxidant blend in the food and pharmaceutical industries. To the best of our knowledge, this is the first time a combination of essential oils has been tested as natural preservatives to prevent both microbial proliferation and oxidative deterioration at sufficiently low concentrations.

 

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Darold Petty

I would coat these seeds in powdered sulfur.

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Keys6505

Thanks all.  I have a few baggies going so I'll get some sulfer and try that on some and try the cinnamon in the other bags and report back on how I made out.  I used to use the cinnamon on tubers whenever I had to "surgically" remove rotted portions but hadn't thought of it for the seeds. 

Does anyone not rinse off after the bleach bath and would the trace amount remaining have any effect on the seeds once they germinate?

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Jan Jo

I have several recently germinated seedlings in pots, all huddled together, and a couple of months ago I noticed two we're dampening off... Fearing it would quickly spread to the rest, I removed the two that were showing symptoms and put them in isolation. I applied Hydrogen Peroxide to all, as I had been doing weekly beforehand anyway, but this time I also sprinkled cinammon on each little pot... I cut back on watering too.. 

It's worked like a charm! Not only have none of the others dampened off, one of the affected seedlings looks like it might even recover (a Veitchia Arecina seedling which spear pulled and was rapidly turning brown - after treatment, the first leaf stopped browning and still remains green - don't really know if recovery from spear pull is possible at that size though). 

So, yes, in my (anecdotal) experience, cinammon helps.. :)

J

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John in Andalucia

In my experience, if the mould returns then the seeds are dying. Not always, true, but I've been down this road many times. Sometimes you just have to chuck bad seeds. Did you cut any of them open to see if they were bad, or desiccated?

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Frond-friend42

I just had a number of walnut-sized kerriodoxa seeds fail the pinch test. If they explode they weren't viable.

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Frond-friend42

"Were no longer viable" I should say. When I got them I assume they were. They sunk. 

Not sure what I did wrong. Wrong temps or wrong moisture balance most likely. Most likely too wet. I didn't soak them very long but if I could go back I would soak them even less. I did get one germination of about 25 so far, and a few that passed the pinch test.

I'm going to try the cinnamon trick.

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John in Andalucia
3 minutes ago, Frond-friend42 said:

"Were no longer viable" I should say. When I got them I assume they were. They sunk. 

Not sure what I did wrong. Wrong temps or wrong moisture balance most likely. Most likely too wet. I didn't soak them very long but if I could go back I would soak them even less. I did get one germination of about 25 so far, and a few that passed the pinch test.

I'm going to try the cinnamon trick.

It's worth remembering that the ideal conditions for germination are even more so for the onset of rot. I'm not sounding very positive today! The point being, that you probably didn't do anything wrong. 

I'm a real wimp when it comes to doing the pinch test with palm seeds. It's the ones that pop like zits and smell like a rotting corpse that makes me hesitant.

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Keys6505
2 hours ago, John in Andalucia said:

In my experience, if the mould returns then the seeds are dying. Not always, true, but I've been down this road many times. Sometimes you just have to chuck bad seeds. Did you cut any of them open to see if they were bad, or desiccated?

When I cleaned them after the initial mold growth I checked them all.  I did have a bunch of bad ones but they appeared to have just turned as the inside was still white but had gone mushy.  I have a bunch of different seeds going and some I lost about 90% and other species I didn't lose any.   I haven't had a chance to clean again with the cinnamon/sulfer but hope to later today.

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Frond-friend42
1 hour ago, John in Andalucia said:

It's worth remembering that the ideal conditions for germination are even more so for the onset of rot. I'm not sounding very positive today! The point being, that you probably didn't do anything wrong. 

I'm a real wimp when it comes to doing the pinch test with palm seeds. It's the ones that pop like zits and smell like a rotting corpse that makes me hesitant.

Agreed they can be rancid. I popped one carpoxylon  that was:sick:

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