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Did Christmas lights kill my Christmas Palm?


PalmX

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Had some good results with wrapping trunks of some outdoor palms in lights during the chilly nights, so I decided to give it a try on an Adonida that I brought in side. I started seeing good growth with the lights + an LED panel for supplemental light but then...

I found out tonight that the trunk has shrunken in on itself. 

Is this at all reversible or is this palm doomed? :(

u8OANbF.thumb.jpg.5643758d1c486ddeed1ac474ab270980.jpg

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1 hour ago, PalmX said:

Had some good results with wrapping trunks of some outdoor palms in lights during the chilly nights, so I decided to give it a try on an Adonida that I brought in side. I started seeing good growth with the lights + an LED panel for supplemental light but then...

I found out tonight that the trunk has shrunken in on itself. 

Is this at all reversible or is this palm doomed? :(

u8OANbF.thumb.jpg.5643758d1c486ddeed1ac474ab270980.jpg

were they incandescent Xmas lights?  the old kind that get hot?   Also, you had it indoors when you had the lights on the trunk?   What does the top look like?     Sadly, that trunk looks like its toast.   If it got hot from the lights I would bet that is what did it.    

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6 minutes ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

were they incandescent Xmas lights?  the old kind that get hot?   Also, you had it indoors when you had the lights on the trunk?   What does the top look like?     Sadly, that trunk looks like its toast.   If it got hot from the lights I would bet that is what did it.    

Yeah, they were the incandescents.  I was hoping it would mimic hot weather. 

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12 minutes ago, PalmX said:

Yeah, they were the incandescents.  I was hoping it would mimic hot weather. 

Yeah that probably is what did it in. I killed a Windmill Palm when I lived back up north in DC with those.  I had it wrapped in very lose plastic as the night time lows were around 10 F.  The next day it hit 36F and we had sun. I forgot the lights were on until it was too late. It felt super hot inside the plastic.  The palm was dead in a week.   oh well, lesson learned.   

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45 minutes ago, PalmX said:

Yeah, they were the incandescents.

I wrapped up a juvenile Copernicia alba with incandescent Christmas lights prior to hitting 20° F in Jan 2018.  I didn't realize how hot those lights would get - my first and only time using them!  All the leaves, new spear and majority of the stem were fried from the heat.  In Feb I decided to perform surgery and cut down nearly to the ground until I saw green.  A few weeks later I started to see movement.  Here is the palm in 2017.

rsz_copernicia_alba.thumb.jpg.9ac79148f98d693e527b09c652ee2235.jpg

And here is the same palm in Mar 2018.

rsz_2001.jpg.e5dadb57a1c20b55c735ca838061638d.jpg

And here is the same palm in 2020 - about 6' overall height.  Not sure how your palm would handle it with it being in a pot but it wouldn't hurt to try.

1598335337_rsz_C_alba.thumb.jpg.227c4d4a5d04bd3c6c7c60088f5464b9.jpg

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Jon Sunder

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10 hours ago, Fusca said:

I wrapped up a juvenile Copernicia alba with incandescent Christmas lights prior to hitting 20° F in Jan 2018.  I didn't realize how hot those lights would get - my first and only time using them!  All the leaves, new spear and majority of the stem were fried from the heat.  In Feb I decided to perform surgery and cut down nearly to the ground until I saw green.  A few weeks later I started to see movement.  Here is the palm in 2017.

rsz_copernicia_alba.thumb.jpg.9ac79148f98d693e527b09c652ee2235.jpg

And here is the same palm in Mar 2018.

rsz_2001.jpg.e5dadb57a1c20b55c735ca838061638d.jpg

And here is the same palm in 2020 - about 6' overall height.  Not sure how your palm would handle it with it being in a pot but it wouldn't hurt to try.

1598335337_rsz_C_alba.thumb.jpg.227c4d4a5d04bd3c6c7c60088f5464b9.jpg

That is a pretty stunning recovery!  I bet if I had done the same with my windmill I may have had similar results.     I think for his Christmas palm that the damage is too far down on the trunk for that though, well past any part of the growing point.    I think its best for him to wait it out and see what happens but it doesn't look good. 

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16 minutes ago, DCA_Palm_Fan said:

That is a pretty stunning recovery!  I bet if I had done the same with my windmill I may have had similar results.     I think for his Christmas palm that the damage is too far down on the trunk for that though, well past any part of the growing point.    I think its best for him to wait it out and see what happens but it doesn't look good. 

Yeah you can't cut a crownshaft down like  that.

If it goes to a point of no return, what do you think will start to happen to the palm next (spear pull, trunk collapsing, dead fronds?)

The top of the palm looks fine, and it still has a decent spear growing.

Edited by PalmX
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Just now, PalmX said:

Yeah you can't cut a crownshaft down like  that.

What do you ultimately think will happen to the palm? Can the trunk not beef back out?

The top of the palm looks fine, and it still has a decent spear growing.

Usually damage to palm trunks is permanent.  They cannot "regenerate* like regular dicot type trees.  Every injury they sustain, while not fatal, will always be there.   Id just keep the palm and treat it as normal and see what happens.  I suppose its possible that the interior of the trunk did not get damaged much and it will be fun but just look funny at that part.   If you don't see any changes in the crown over the next few weeks then you may be out of the woods and it may survive just fine.   I cant speak to weather or not the area of the trunk that got damaged is in a physically weakened state though.  If you feel it is but the tree is fine you could always stake it.   I hope it lives for you! 

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1 hour ago, PalmX said:

Yeah you can't cut a crownshaft down like  that.

Oops, I missed that it was an Adonidia.  Well at least I showed that some palms can recover from a Christmas lights attack!  :P

Edited by Fusca
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Jon Sunder

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  • 1 year later...

Hello, I wrapped my palm tree with Christmas lights and didn’t realize how hot they would get when covered with 2 layers of cover to protect it from deep freeze. I noticed that it burned some of the stems on the palm and it turned brown. Can the burn hurt the palm or will the palm recover? It’s a mid size Sabal palm. Please advise. Thank you!

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It does not look too bad, the inner bud should have survived that. I see no general location in your post.  What do you mean by a "deep freeze" (30 F., -10 F.)?

Also, do you know the species of the Sabal?  They can differ tremendously in cold hardiness.

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16 hours ago, AdamKocian said:

Hello, I wrapped my palm tree with Christmas lights and didn’t realize how hot they would get when covered with 2 layers of cover to protect it from deep freeze. I noticed that it burned some of the stems on the palm and it turned brown. Can the burn hurt the palm or will the palm recover? It’s a mid size Sabal palm. Please advise. Thank you!

'Tis merely a superficial flesh wound. Sabal palmetto is not concerned about a little heat. In fact they love fire. It clears out the other plants and gives them room to take over.

Your palm should be fine.

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Edited by Valhallalla
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18 minutes ago, Valhallalla said:

 

 

Thank you so much for the reply! I’m glad I didn’t kill my Sabal :) I appreciate your help!

Edited by AdamKocian
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15 hours ago, oasis371 said:

It does not look too bad, the inner bud should have survived that. I see no general location in your post.  What do you mean by a "deep freeze" (30 F., -10 F.)?

Also, do you know the species of the Sabal?  They can differ tremendously in cold hardiness.

Hello,

‘I’m in Dallas, TX. Deep freeze of 24F at night. Warm days though and upcoming forecast looks like we shouldn’t be getting any freeze, so I removed the covers. It’s Texas Sabal - Sabal mexicana.

Thanks for your reply.

Edited by AdamKocian
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Sabal mexicana should be able to handle that temperature, it's a nice species.  Actually, I prefer it to S. palmetto, find it a bit faster growing.

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5 hours ago, AdamKocian said:

Hello,

‘I’m in Dallas, TX. Deep freeze of 24F at night. Warm days though and upcoming forecast looks like we shouldn’t be getting any freeze, so I removed the covers. It’s Texas Sabal - Sabal mexicana.

Thanks for your reply.

I agree with @oasis371 and @Valhallalla.  All Sabal mexicana here in San Antonio did find even unprotected out in the open last February at 9° with minimal foliar damage (<20%).  Was it just planted in 2021 after the February freeze?  If so it might (?) need some protection below 15° but once established it shouldn't need any winter protection except in extreme events like in February.  I've never protected any Sabal in winter except for a Riverside seedling this past February and haven't lost one to cold.  Welcome to Palmtalk!  What other palms do you have planted?

Edited by Fusca
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Jon Sunder

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18 minutes ago, Fusca said:

I agree with @oasis371 and @Valhallalla.  All Sabal mexicana here in San Antonio did find even unprotected out in the open last February at 9° with minimal foliar damage (<20%).  Was it just planted in 2021 after the February freeze?  If so it might (?) need some protection below 15° but once established it shouldn't need any winter protection except in extreme events like in February.  I've never protected any Sabal in winter except for a Riverside seedling this past February and haven't lost one to cold.  Welcome to Palmtalk!  What other palms do you have planted?

Fusca, thank you so much for your comment. Makes me feel much better about my Texas Sabal. Here in North Texas we don’t fall to 15F often. The coldest so fare this season was 24F and I already had it fully wrapped since it was planted in July 2021. Since the palm was a bit pricey, I wanted to make sure it doesn’t get hurt by the hard freeze, but as you saw my previous post and the pics, I did more harm to it by burning it with the Christmas lights under the 2 covers. 
It’s good to know that the Texas Sabal does well in very cold winter when established. So per your comment, I don’t really need to protect it from hard freeze down to 24F? I don’t think we’ll go any lower this season, but you never know with last February freeze.

I just moved to a new house in May 2021, so I have only the Texas Sabal and Sabal minor planted in ground. My other potted palms are: Pygmy Date Palms and Washingtonia Robusta. 
The previous owner had 3 beautiful tall windmill palms planted by the pool, but unfortunately they didn’t make it during the hard February freeze and I was left with tall dead trunks :(

 

Thanks again for your post and all the help.

Edited by AdamKocian
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What is the proper  way to use old christmas lights to keep a palm alive but not burn it? I bought some on clearance this January to wrap my new palms come the next big freeze and would like to know how to properly do it without doing harm?

Ill be protecting trunks on things like queens, and mules below 20F.

Edited by Collectorpalms

Current Texas Gardening Zone 9a, Mean (1999-2024): 22F Low/104F High. Yearly Precipitation 39.17 inches.

Extremes: Low Min 4F 2021, 13.8F 2024. High Max 112F 2011/2023, Precipitation Max 58 inches 2015, Lowest 19 Inches 2011.

Weather Station: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KTXCOLLE465

Ryan (Paleoclimatologist Since 4 billion Years ago, Meteorologist/Earth Scientist/Physicist Since 1995, Savy Horticulturist Since Birth.)

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Incandescent lights wrapped on the trunk indoors cooked it like a convection oven I’m afraid. Those lights get WAY hotter than the sun shining on it outdoors on a hot day. So sorry for your loss. 

Jim in Los Altos, CA  SF Bay Area 37.34N- 122.13W- 190' above sea level

zone 10a/9b

sunset zone 16

300+ palms, 90+ species in the ground

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